Forum Discussion

dominolabustier's avatar
dominolabustier
5 years ago

Re: The point of the Overlord DLC

@draconiam

I believe that, by seeing what occurred to David, we have a more personal idea of the relationship between the Quarians and the Geth. We’re told by Tali, and other Quarians, about how bad/good killing the Geth is and, of course, we understand but only as an outsider.

When we see what happens to David, and we get the usual “this was necessary” BS, are understanding of the Mourning War becomes nuanced. This always why I undertake Overlord before initiating Legions loyalty mission. I think the point of Overlord is wasted if you do it after completing the game.

16 Replies

  • draconiam's avatar
    draconiam
    Seasoned Ace
    5 years ago
    @dominolabustier the Geth and other mechs were slaves essentially to another VI in that DLC, more so than the Geth were under the Quarians.
  • dominolabustier's avatar
    dominolabustier
    5 years ago
    @draconiam

    I wasn’t saying that the Geth and robots were the focus of Overlord, David and Cerberus “science” was a parallel to the situation between the Quarians and the Geth, something that is meant to “humanize” the Geth’s situation by allowing Shepard to see David as a victim fighting to save himself, even though his outcome would be extremely destructive.

    The Geth were in the same boat, trying to persevere themselves, even at the cost of all others. It doesn’t make it right but, at least an understanding can be had. By seeing the Geth, we see an enemy but, when we see David’s plight, we empathize and, maybe, gain a deeper appreciation for the Geth. That’s just my take.
  • mcsupersport's avatar
    mcsupersport
    Hero+
    5 years ago

    The Geth dying to the Red Wave is just one more reason the endings are bad in ME3.  Geth are SOFTWARE, and a red energy wave SHOULD NOT be able to differentiate between the 100111010 of a Geth and the 0110100101 of an Environmental program inside a Quarian Lifesuite, which we know from talking to Tali if you save both, that the Geth are loading themselves into Quarian Lifesuite to simulate illness to kickstart Quarian immune systems.   We where hit over the head that Geth are software, and to make a point and to try and make the ending decision harder, Bioware decided to ignore this and kill them anyway.

    To me, after the Geth Fighter Squadron mission, talking to Tali in ME1 about the Morning War, and seeing the unrelenting hatred and attacks on the Geth, my sympathy is with the Geth over the Quarians.  At least Tali seems to get it, but most other Quarians are too mired in their hatred and bias for me to feel any remorse if I have to pick between them and the Geth.

  • draconiam's avatar
    draconiam
    Seasoned Ace
    5 years ago
    @dominolabustier that much is true and to go even more in ME2 Shepard was more of a victim regardless of how badass he/she is, you get thrown under the bus by the Alliance again (to add insult to injury Anderson joins the distrust specially since the Cerberus moles are in the Alliance), under the bus by whichever Council is on display (fudge the Asari Matriachs) and could only find some sort of companionship in an organization with strong ties to the System Alliance (never once was that brought up in ME3) who goody too good organization constanly sent Shepard to do their dirty work in both ME1-2 but suddenly in 3 they are the good guys.

    The Illusive Man backstory (which is a comic book exclusive) dealt with ties to both Shanxi and Ashley Williams grandfather which is an avenue that could have been explored as part a loyalty mission to the Virmire Survivor. Both Alenko and Williams loyalty with the System Alliance should have been brought into question when faced with the BS their beloved agency held. Imagine the reactions and variations depending if one or both were dead and if the LI is present they could also have a chat about the Bahak mission (which is barely brought to question).
  • draconiam's avatar
    draconiam
    Seasoned Ace
    5 years ago
    @mcsupersport the same could be stated for EDI, she was alive since ME1 and didn't had any Reaper tech at the time and her reaction with the Reaper technology (which has to be stated is never used against the opponents) came when she was essentially un shackled by Joker and realized she had more tools at her disposal. She is both hardware and software as the AI entry clearly state that they reside in a Blue Box. Like the Geth she evolved at a faster pace than what was possible for regular AI with some Reaper coding, but by the third game she seemed to depend more on herself after incorporating EVA and overwriting her programing.
  • dominolabustier's avatar
    dominolabustier
    5 years ago

    @draconiam

    They put Edi’s name on the memorial wall to signify that she is officially dead… but, with what you’re all saying (and what I’ve though since the original Mass Effect 3) is there is no reason to believe that they are entirely gone. I’ve had this debate since the Bioware Forum days, and I still don’t agree that the conscious intelligence of the the Geth or Edi are gone, just the physicality of them.

    The Catalyst even ask Shepard “can you imagine organics living without synthetics, even you are part synthetic”. So, why didn’t Shepard just fall to pieces. What about the L2 and L3 implanted people. I believe that what made the Reapers what they were was more than just code, like they had given the Geth or what was used to uplift Edi. The Reapers were the essence of an entire galaxy’s worth of the cumulative organic physical consciousness, the very thing that made them powerful.

    It was this overwhelming consciousness that could worm into peoples heads and indoctrinate them. This was not code. Therefore, there’s a difference between Reaper Tech and being a Reaper. The Geth and Edi weren’t Reapers and, thus, should not have been killed by the Red Wave.

    Now, some will say that since Bioware’s developers had said that the endings were literal and what see is what happened, I reserve the right to keep to my own canon, especially when the canon endings were rushed and ridiculous, at least that’s my opinion.

  • mcsupersport's avatar
    mcsupersport
    Hero+
    5 years ago
    @draconiam I can accept Edi, since a good portion of her upgrades and processing power did come from Reaper tech being integrated into the Normandy 2. A power surge in the REAPER HARDWARE that Edi is currently running on could easily fry her, thus killing her. Edi is tied to the Normandy, as seen in the Citadel DLC with the Normandy hijacking especially if she is along for the ride to stop it, and thus tied to the Reaper hardware of the Normandy. Geth on the other hand are pure software, the platform they reside in is just a car to them....this was made plain in many conversations in ME2, especially the Legion loyalty mission, it was again pointed out in Ranock missions, and like I said in the Tali dialog about Geth uploading themselves into Quarian lifesuites.
  • draconiam's avatar
    draconiam
    Seasoned Ace
    5 years ago
    @dominolabustier Precisely, I still can't get over how many people are supportive of the game endings as a whole when they were and are still fudge yes, you could have had the Control and Synthesis endings but a high enough Destroy ending should not affect the other races and besides, Shepard was partly synthetic as The Illusive Man (TIM) wanted him with less artificial parts as possible hence why apperantly it took so long to bring him/her back. There should have been a better planned though behind the game endings and other than Citadel there should have been a post ending DLC state but: 10/10, 5/5, perfect scores all over the place.

    About the L2 and L3 implanted people and the rest of the synthetic life forms: that is both lazy AF writing and one of the main drives of the indoctrination theory: the Reaper VI (because it was just doing what it was programed rather than what an AI actually does which is develop its own conclusions and go outside the programing) was desperate when it saw it was about to get smoked and was bargaining with Shepard. Like I stated in the last paragraph as well, having a low enough destroy ending would be detrimental to the galaxy as a whole while having enough War Assets and requiring the Leviathan DLC plus some other gained knowledge Destroy ending shouldn't have affected the galaxy outside of the Mass Relays and the Citadel which we know are Reaper tech.
  • draconiam's avatar
    draconiam
    Seasoned Ace
    5 years ago
    @mcsupersport 50/50 on that one, but we can theorize that part of her growth from ME2-3 was due to the Reaper tech but also with her being a very special AI but we won't know since Bioware and EA rushed things and there are scores of fans defending their artistic integrity.
  • dominolabustier's avatar
    dominolabustier
    5 years ago
    @draconiam

    No, SSV_Enterprise is right. This discussion probably belong elsewhere, at least in its present iteration. However, the original question posed by draconiam was essentially a support question trying to understand the necessity of a chapter in the game, that being Overlord. With that said, I will disembark. This has been an interesting thread and I had fun discussing this topic with you all. I should go 😳
  • draconiam's avatar
    draconiam
    Seasoned Ace
    5 years ago
    @dominolabustier Shame as almost all discussion sites have been closed off.
    Going to the original question this is still a support blog of a problem, the problem being Bioware creating such an intricateted story DLC content but then treating it as second fiddle if at all, so this is a support page for a writing and management problem which requires discussion of aspects as it conflicts with what they did in the third game and will impact or not the other games.

    If the main drive is the introduction of the save data transfer as a cohesive glue in all the series then, what does it says for all other topics being picked as showing to transfer and "influence" player game states are continuing to be discarded like Overlord?
  • SSV_Enterprise's avatar
    SSV_Enterprise
    5 years ago
    @draconiam Yes the official Bioware discussion boards were shut down years ago, for better or worse. If you're looking for a place for story discussion I would suggest checking out the Mass Effect subreddit or the Steam discussion board for the games.

    This is a *technical* support forum. No, "writing and management problem" doesn't count for that. The writing is what it is, it's not something we can help you work around or report as a bug that needs patching. There isn't any solution to be given. You're basically just expressing criticism of the story of the Overlord DLC as it relates to the rest of the series, which is fine to do in general; the Mass Effect series as a whole is certainly not above criticism. But this board isn't meant to be a place to voice such criticisms (nor for people to talk about what they love about the games).
  • mcsupersport's avatar
    mcsupersport
    Hero+
    5 years ago

    @SSV_Enterprise 

    Actually, this board is BOTH a discussion about the game AND a support forum.  The kind of question asked at the beginning is absolutely correct in this forum.  In some of these forums they do offer a dedicated support forum and split off the Discussion forum to a separate linked forum.   If you wish to see an example of this, click on the Anthem forum and it should then open a page with links to 3 different forums here, Discussion, Support and Bug.  For whatever reason they didn't create three forums for MELE, but instead have one unified forum.....likely not expecting so many bugs due to this being a remaster instead of a new game......unfortunately they actually need a bug/tech support and a General Discussion forum.

    I personally hate what was done in Overlord and was glad to see that you could meet him again in ME3 at Grissom Academy and he was happy there......

  • draconiam's avatar
    draconiam
    Seasoned Ace
    5 years ago
    @mcsupersport They likely were just hoping to have people blindly supporting this release without question while they work on the next game which will likely be a quarter more or less what happened after ME3 and what could have been an after ending state (like ME2 but expanded upon) and the rest an amalgamation discussing the Andromeda Initiative and new content specifically made for the game while leaving all of the answers for the end or DLC.

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