Re: Is anything being done about Truculence?

@MATTDALOR1AN 

Imagine a world where someone in the same response, says “this isn’t hockey”, but defends being able to board and charge people all game long because penalties for it don’t exist..

this is the NHL community in a nutshell 

My problem is that people defending truculence, are the same people that probably literally don’t even play 3v3 Eashl, and think I’m just asking for D nerfs. I’m asking for penalties, which exist in the real 3v3 NHL…. Adding penalties to 3v3 Eashl literally does not affect any other mode in this game. If you don’t play 3v3 Eashl than you shouldn’t even be giving your opinion in this thread, and if you do play 3v3 Eashl you must be blind to not see that this is an issue, and if you would like proof that it’s an issue, by all means I’ll get my club to run 3 truculence players and play your team in club and see how it goes.

These are the types of people EA listens and caters this game to. “I want real hockey”, but wants real penalties left out of the game. “I hate ballerinas”, but fine with goalies robbing back door plays, leading to more ballerinas since it’s essentially a passing nerf. Etc 

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@TITAN_NHL wrote:

My problem is that people defending truculence, are the same people that probably literally don’t even play 3v3 Eashl, and think I’m just asking for D nerfs. I’m asking for penalties, which exist in the real 3v3 NHL…. Adding penalties to 3v3 Eashl literally does not affect any other mode in this game. If you don’t play 3v3 Eashl than you shouldn’t even be giving your opinion in this thread, and if you do play 3v3 Eashl you must be blind to not see that this is an issue, and if you would like proof that it’s an issue, by all means I’ll get my club to run 3 truculence players and play your team in club and see how it goes.

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Do you prefer the penalty shot versus a 2-minute minor?

We will play 3's if that's all the humans we have, but I have to admit that the penalty shots really bug me. I know it's not allowed in the NHL, but in EASHL - I wouldn't mind penalties being 1-minute of 3v2 or something. 

It's the penalty shots that kill me because so many teams can exploit that. I wonder if that's why they killed penalties in 3v3?

1) This sounds maybe like a 3s problem, more so than a truculence problem?

2) When the developer nerfs pretty much all other defensive tools (poke check spam nerf has gone a little too far? stick lift utterly broken=auto penalty) , then this is what results.

3) Hitting feels very unreliable rn without truculence it seems

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@IceLion68 wrote:

1) This sounds maybe like a 3s problem, more so than a truculence problem?

2) When the developer nerfs pretty much all other defensive tools (poke check spam nerf has gone a little too far? stick lift utterly broken=auto penalty) , then this is what results.

3) Hitting feels very unreliable rn without truculence it seems

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When I was playing the trial, I felt the addition of 'second chance puck movement' resulted in a lag being introduced in the hitting animations. Makes things feel clunky and off for sure. Also resulted in weird things like this:

Sure, I was a little overzealous with WPG#88 on the body check - but there doesn't appear to be any way to stop your player from following through so much after a hit in your own zone. 

I also feel WPG#81 should've been able to swoop in and steal that puck from STL#16 but the second chance animation blocks him from doing so, while STL#16 regains possession without any impedance. 

@KidShowtime1867 

I would definitely be fine with them removing penalty shots in 3s and just forcing the team to kill the penalty 3v2. Knowing EA though they would end up making it just a 4 on 3 PP with your team getting an AI on the ice as the PP, like what’s programmed in hut/versus OT, which if that was the case I’d rather them keep the penalty shot.

Right now a penalty shot is literally a guarantee with how bad goalies are at stopping them, and the guaranteed goal that hits 100% of the time literally takes zero skill to pull off, I could do it with 1 hand on the controller and score every time. If penalty shots are going to be in the mode, at least make it look like scoring on one takes SOME skill and effort, it’s just a bad look for the game 

@MATTDALOR1AN 

Would you please read before positing. I’ve literally said like 8x in this thread that I’m not asking for hitting to be nerfed, I’m asking for penalties for boarding and charging to be in 3s like it is in REAL HOCKEY.

The only actually nerf I want to hitting is the amount of hit assistance truculence gives you, you don’t even need to line up your hits the game does it for you and no matter what move your opponent makes, the game auto corrects your positioning which is completely unfair to the forward. 

Adding penalties to 3s literally does not change the way D plays in any other mode in the game so I don’t get why you’re upset, it would be no different than playing 6s with truculence right now and having to actually be aware of the way you’re hitting people to not take a penalty. 

@MATTDALOR1AN 

Lol are you really this ignorant bro?

There literally is no boarding or charging penalties in 3v3 Eashl so I dunno what you’re going on about. 

You know why people don’t take boarding penalties in OT in real NHL? Cause teams don’t put goon enforcers out on the ice for OT and use their skilled players cause the goons wouldn’t keep up…. Doesn’t mean that if mackinnon were to board some guy in the numbers that he wouldn’t be getting a penalty in real NHL.

again, these are the types of people EA caters and listens to, that can’t even think about what they are commenting about and think to themselves whether it even makes sense 

In the beta the year EASHL 3s was introduced penalties did result in a 4v3 PP.  There was a lot of negative feedback to that due to it adding more AI players on the ice.  The result was the current mechanic of all penalties being a penalty shot.  At the same time they removed charging, boarding and elbowing as penalties in the mode.  I have no poof or insider knowledge but I've long suspected the removal of those penalties was not for gameplay purposes but was due to them being able to result in a five minute major which somehow messed with the change to awarding penalty shots.  The only exception was interference which admittedly throws the theory for a loop. 

There's a couple of things likely keeping us stuck with penalty shots instead of 3v2 or 3v1 power players.  First is just the need to rework the game logic on how many players to allow on the ice.  Conceptually for us it seems easy enough but depending on how the game logic is written and what the change may entail it might not be worth it from a development perspective.  Second would be the need to add new AI logic to handle these scenarios which again may just fall into the category of more work than it's worth.

As for the penalties themselves, I'm kind of OK with where they are right now.  With all the open space in 3s if you get charged it's kind of on you.  Although I would like to see the window for hitting a player after they've gotten rid of the puck to be a lot smaller.  If I pass or shoot the puck and you need to take multiple strides to get to me before you can hit me that should be interference all day long.  That change might be enough to make charging not being called more palatable.

Boarding can stay out as far as I'm concerned.  Yes it's not "real hockey", but from a video game perspective it's fine.  Imagine the consequences to the mode if players couldn't be hit from behind while facing the boards with the puck.  Especially this year.  You can't poke the puck off them.  You can't use body positioning.  If you commit to one side of them or the other they just spin in the opposite direction and are gone ( and unlike in 5v5 modes double teaming them on the boards results in too much open space ).  3v3 would become nothing but players standing with their face against the glass waiting to bait the defense into either a penalty or getting burnt.  How fun is that?

@PlayoffError 

The thing is though, that nobody can sit here and say in 3v3 Eashl that there isn’t a massive advantage to hitting rather than stick checking. If they don’t want boarding or charging calls, and are ok with hitting a guy 4-5 strides after he moves the puck with no penalty, than get rid of stick checking penalties and just treat it as what it is, an arcade mode at that point.

Regardless of the reasoning of why it is the way it is, the fact is it’s completely unbalanced, and as a game developer trying to make a “competitive” game, it’s their job to balance the game as best as possible.  

Also, the fact my build I’m using right now is a 6’5” power forward with truculence, and I have 89 speed and 89 accel, when the max in the game is 95 is a complete joke. This means the builds that are supposed to be small and agile with speed, are being kept up with by power forwards with ease, allowing the power forward to demolish the smaller player after they move the puck with the late hits that are allowed, because if you’re playing actual man on man coverage, you’re always close enough to lay a late hit on those forwards regardless of how quick they move the puck.

I absolutely hate playing a truculence build, but my team runs 3 of them now and I literally always ensures we outnumber the other team because at least 1 of them are always laying on the ice. There is no amount of quick puck movement you’re going to use to avoid being on the ice all game long against a full truculence team because the speed difference is barely noticeable, as well as a 3 second window of hitting them. 

Myself having 89 speed/accel as a goon build, playing with my team that is excellent at covering their guy, ensures that they are never going to have enough separation from us that we aren’t finishing the hit

In no world should a 6’5” goon only be like a 5% difference in speed. It should be so noticeably slower. Realistically a goon build should be in the low to mid 70s max as it’s skating 

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@MATTDALOR1AN wrote:
@TITAN_NHLthe library is free, btw. You can learn to read there

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What @TITAN_NHL is trying to say is, IRL, no - you're likely not going to see a boarding call because the flow of 3v3 IRL doesn't tend to manifest a scenario in which a player is even going to get the opportunity to board somebody. But in EA's 3v3, because of the nature of truculence, teams are specifically going for big hits because the mechanic is so balanced towards the hitter. When something like boarding happens (which it does when a team is simply gooning for hits) - they're not being called for the penalty whereas in real life, they would. Plus, it changes the entire META of 3v3 from pure hockey to "who can knock down the other team the most"

I know @MATTDALOR1AN is trying say there ARE penalties, and he's not wrong - but he's missing the point that boarding in 6v6 should be boarding in 3v3 and it's not. 

This is resulting in the truculence META dominating, and it shouldn't. It ruins 3v3. 

If all penalties were being called in 3v3 (which they're not) then it would discourage entire teams from using truculence builds and force players to maybe utilize more strategic methods (maybe 1 truculence, a PMK and a TWF, etd etc)  to win rather than just trying to mow down the other team for odd-man rushes. 

@KidShowtime1867 

Exactly, thanks and hopefully it clarifies it for him lol 

Hey, everyone. I've had to remove a couple posts. Let's watch the personal attacks, please. 

@EA_Aljo 

Is truculence in 3v3 Eashl even on the devs radar? Are they happy with it the way it is? I honestly just really want to know whether to just drop the game and move on for the year, and if it’s not getting fixed thats the decision made for me

I totally agree that truculence is ridiculously OP, but I also dont think I want to find out how awful defense would be without it. As it is now with the L2ing and being able to turn away from hits, without truculence you wouldnt be able to stop anyone. 

This x factor crap is so bad and ruins the game, but its everywhere so they are likely going to keep forcing it down our throats. 

I also completely agree with all the comparisons to how OP it is compared to poke checks and stick lifts(auto penalty). Poke checks are only effective a small percentage of the time due to how perfect it needs to be coupled with the fact that people just keep control of the puck even when it is poked quite often, and if they dont it probably goes right to their teammate in stride. That coupled with the fact that theyve removed all hitting penalties from 3's which is still a horrendous decision that just further promoted running around mindlessly hitting people. 

This game is horrendously balanced

@mikeq67 

I agree without truculence, playing D would be a nightmare as it currently sits in NHL 23. That  being said, that’s on EA to balance stick checking to the point that it’s not the case. Right now there literally is no balance in NHL 23, so I’m not holding my breath 

Whoever honestly made the decision to take checking penalties out of 3v3, when it’s not being actually deemed an “arcade mode” which is what 3s eliminator is for, should honestly be fired, and/or never be taken seriously again when bringing an opinion forward at EA. 

I woud say, problem is, that Truculence gives you more time to do a late hit. Puck was already played but late hit comes to smash player down to the ice. I would say, implementation of truculence is bad. Yes, sure, you can do big hits with it, but late hits should not be allowed, thats a penalty for sure. 

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@TITAN_NHL wrote:

@mikeq67 

I agree without truculence, playing D would be a nightmare as it currently sits in NHL 23. That  being said, that’s on EA to balance stick checking to the point that it’s not the case. Right now there literally is no balance in NHL 23, so I’m not holding my breath 

Whoever honestly made the decision to take checking penalties out of 3v3, when it’s not being actually deemed an “arcade mode” which is what 3s eliminator is for, should honestly be fired, and/or never be taken seriously again when bringing an opinion forward at EA. 

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Hitting is pretty much the only effective defensive tool we have left, and without truculence its pretty inconsistent. That said, assuming what folks are saying is true about late hits, and other non-calls happening. I am totally OK with pens being enforced as they should

@IAmAchievedTell your D-men stop giving you suicide passes, dump the puck, skate in any direction other than a straight line, or have your forward partner near you to take the puck after the hit or near to receive a touch pass after you get hit. Not that hard to avoid someone with Truck if you know they're sitting on the blue line waiting for you, lol.

@IceLion68The hilarious thing is that hitting isn't even defense. It's an all-or-nothing play that takes you out of position. And you never see it in real 3v3 in the NHL because it would almost always result in the player ending up in Narnia.

@IAmAchieved 

Exactly where my thoughts are at. Ah well too many good games coming out in the next bit to continue to waste time with this one