Ethnically Diverse Legends
Dear Apex, You guys are doing an amazing job with the diversity in legends. It's pretty awesome to see the variety and getting to play around with the different styles. When you guys introduced Loba...
Forum Discussion
@Carnellian Damn good point, and you're right, you can argue the other way (you're the first person to ever argue that to me).
It's saddening to hear people eat up the concept of inclusivity, because in my perspective it does the opposite, it puts the people in question in the spotlight. Let me explain.
I think of inclusivity like a sampling method of an experiment, the only way it can be generalised (or more literally in this case - fade into obscurity) is to use a strategic sample. A strategic sample is designed to represent the population, meaning it can be generalised. The problem is, inclusivity such as this involves creating one of each type, without respecting the proportions in a real population. I mostly just used wikipedia and williamsinstitute demographics for this, but the probability of a non-binary and gay in a sample of 12 (almost 13) is astronomical.
The problem I have is why they feel the need to do this? To go out of their way after releasing a character just to give them a label to make people happy. Why do people need this to be happy? I'm not shunning Gibraltar for being gay, I'm shunning the people who thought it was a "good" thing to make him so.
(please read this part fully)
I don't particularly like the phrase "It's okay to be gay". It should be "It's okay to do be whatever you want, just don't think it means anything, and don't feel obliged to tell other people". If you want to feel accepted, don't point out the fact you're not.
Thanks,
Dantenate
What you said at the end was seriously concerning. I don't know your demographic, but please, I encourage you to not think like that.
First of all, inclusivity is not about representation according to how real-life populations work. You are incorrect on that. If that's how you think representation should be weighed, minorities would suffer, and they DO. The point of inclusivity is to combat that stress and negativity that comes with being a minority. People NEED and I emphasize that word, NEED to know that they are known, spoken for, accepted, and represented in life in as many ways as possible. Not only is it for their mental health, but also for the many other aspects, like financial and educational.
Now to talk about your statement at the end: Think about all the products that exist in your community that are not aimed for you, but are created for a minority. How would anyone know that the particular group needed/wanted that product without them speaking up? If minorities don't speak up about the injustices or lack of something, they will never get fair treatment or representation, the world is blind to things like these unless someone speaks up. I know what you're trying to say, sometimes people "speak up" in very frantic, awful ways or they come off as annoying, I know what it's like. That can't be helped, you can't silence every annoying person sadly. But what you're conveying is that every person in a minority group should be quiet, which is something that's never going to happen, it's also going to reflect on your character.
My saying is: If you don't understand what the person is thinking/feeling, you don't have a right to tell them what to do. Just stay out of it. Again, I don't know your demographic, but think about whether you as a consumer have been represented in video games or even TV. Are you over-represented? Have you never had to think or worry about representation in your life?
Once again,
Thanks for your response 🙂
@CarnellianNot trying to burst a bubble but you wanna know what happens when you let americans do literally anything that represents your country?
Think of Overwatch.
Hell im german and if we'd get a german character in the game i'd probably be pissed.- @BigBlackCaustic We need Reinhardt in this game.
- @Carnellian I think you misinterpreted a bit. It wasn't me encouraging oppression, or to silence people. Poke a bee-hive and you'll get stung, leave it undisturbed and you won't anger the bees. If it isn't already clear what I'm getting at, the less people talk about an "obvious" difference, the less people will begin to care, and ultimately in my view, the less people will acknowledge there is even a difference at all. I would love if people refused to acknowledge a difference, but because people make a big deal about equality of minorities, what are they doing: exactly what they're fighting against.
It all depends on your perspective. You are removing negative stigma, I'm encouraging indifference. I don't think your approach is wrong (just like I hope you don't think mine is wrong), just different.
I would like to get back to the original topic, EA are doing it for the wrong reasons. I don't think Gibraltar being gay or anything else for that matter is something EA even had to acknowledge. I don't want this to also be misconstrued as limiting the design teams creating freedom, they are still free to design characters in interesting and inventive ways, without being under the impression that representing minorities adds any weight to the final product. Thanks Carnellian, you're a smart fellow, and I have mad respect for anyone willing to put as much time in their responses, and with such great arguments.
@BigBlackCaustic I'd also like to reply to your comment as well. What about making a German character worries/angers you?- @Dantenate I used to think this same kind of stuff, but what you don't realize about movies and shows and games making note of lgbtq+ characters is that they actually DO have to. For literally all of history, straight and white in american media were basically the default because that's just how americans grew up. We are already represented. and by not being represented naturally, anybody who isn't a straight white person is basically oppressed through omission. so it is actually EXTREMELY important to include anybody and everyone now, so that in 20 years, nobody has to go out of their way to make note of these characters, because they will at that point naturally exist just another person. As things stand right now, if you see any character drawing with absolutely zero context as to who they are, whether it is important or not, you probably assume they are straight. so that's why characters in all media should be represented from all different places and walks of life, and shouldn't be complained about their existence as such.
@Dantenate
If (s)he is well made i could get behind that but i wouldn't look forward to the result.
Hell, Reinhardt is probably the only german who isn't a nazi in gaming (except for Siege but their vanilla characters have not much personality by design), and he is still a walking stereotype,even talks about * Hasselhoff every chance he gets.
"Oh no if X game or X movie does not include an indian I will feel excluded and invisible"
Yeah that seems like a really healthy mindset my dude.
- @fartnitepalyer Hehe that's one way of saying it
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