Knockdowns and damage give RP in ranked

@CrashA320 It's not called mastiff legends for no reason! 😛

@Ironflower196 They should revert it as they could find other ways to keep players engaged if Respawn actually decide to put the effort in. Some don't play ranked because of the split as they know they don't have the time to get to the top.

Highest tier should be based on skill and absolutely nothing else.

One suggestion for example was using legend tokens as an entry fee like a casual ranked. The incentive was win x amount of games and being able to earn evo skins like the end of battle pass weapons but for your legends. It would make you want to keep earning legends token in pubs to be able to enter in this exclusive que and give those that already have loads something to spend them on. They could be creative and merge this into normal ranked matches so it doesn't effect que times though.

Edit: You could pay just RP like now or choose RP and legend tokens. It would also give you a reason to keep playing ranked if you were unable to climb further lowering que times for the rest, especially in diamond+.

As for exploitation, i know there's loads and made threads on the issue in the past.

 Let's bash the new guy! - Answer HQ (ea.com)

We should be doing everything to minimise it not make it worse, which this would.

In that discussion someone suggested combining kills/damage/placement which is fine if it's not just damage but they tie it to kills and placement somehow, i just don't know how they could do that except the multiplier i said earlier. You can even see at the end of that thread i was in a similar mindset about potentially removing tier demotion protection until another discussion later on somewhere else.

I don't know about last season results but season 6 results showed 0.12% master and 0.2% pred. Announcing Apex Legends Ranked Season 7

@kellanammannThat's not what i'm saying though, is it.

''You just get the initial main RP from one person then go onto the next or move on to another team. As i've already said, ranged engagements are less risky than CQC so ANYTHING that's RP just for damage that isn't connected to kills will be farmed by snipers.''

Introduction of evo proved that it would encourage sniping for damage and it doesn't matter if they can heal and you can charge more over time because if that wasn't the case then people would still opt for ranged engagements to charge their evo even if there was a cap on damage done per person.

Same as your RP suggestion and i'm still waiting for you to address these issues. 

Re: Knockdowns and damage give RP in ranked - Page 5 - Answer HQ (ea.com).

Good thing you removed your last post cause it fit you perfectly.

@apostolateofDOOMI'm not ignoring ANY points you just aren't making any good ones with specific details or that I haven't already ripped apart. Healing and sniper farming, not a problem. I mentioned 5 times a max RP reward for damage on one enemy. I don't think you would get more of them and I think you might have misread that I said you wouldn't get more (RP) FROM (damaging) them. Nobody snipes as it is because knocks rarely lead to kills that don't end up happening at close range. If they did change this, it would help diversify lobbies so that every Mastiff and R-99 that spawn isn't getting picked up.

     Camping and sniping are both high risk high reward strategies. Camping runs the risk of grenades easily obliterating you, as well as people waiting you out for when the circle forces you out of your camping spot. Sniping allows for safer damage than close range, but it also draws in alot more 3rd parties because of how loud snipers are, and limits you're damage capability at close range, where it's highly likely that you'll end up because of how popular mobility legends are.

     3rd parties are still doing damage that should get rewarded. They're already getting kill and assist rewards that are much easier to obtain because they're taking on teams with lower health and shields, so if the team you just cracked shields on all by yourself gets 3rd partied and killed, you still get RP for the damage that you did. They have got to stop rewarding 3rd partying so much.

And when you say "coding" I honestly think you're just trying to sound smart. You have no idea what goes on in the code of this game, you are not a coder, the guys that are will easily figure out how to implement these changes. They don't need people like you with no education on the matter telling them it's gonna be hard.

If you seriously need to hear it again fine... Tier demotion: If you get demoted on purpose, that's gonna take quite a long time, and they could suspend anyone who is jumping off the map right away 5 games in a row. If they reward RP for damage, you'll get a couple games of doing alot of damage and then get shot back into the rank you were in before, only to have to spend another 20 games dying right away on purpose. It will not be worth it.

Great, you admitted defensive legends aren't at a disadvantage in terms of damage output. If you're complaining about how defensive legends play defensively, THEN DON'T PLAY DEFENSIVE LEGENDS OR PLAY THEM MORE AGGRESSIVELY. I don't care what you say generally happens, I always play caustic aggresively and typically do more damage than the octane and pathfinder on my team, so that argument is worthless. Any legend is capable of being used aggressively. End of story.

I am grateful for your efforts to poke holes in my idea, because that allowed me to refine it into what it is now, but I'm not too fond of repeating myself which you've made me do a few times now. I'm going to sum this concept up for you in case you still don't understand:

You are rewarded for damage you do to an enemy, up to a maximum per enemy of 225 damage (Full red evo shield and full health). This maximum includes healed and revived enemies. After that set maximum damage has been reached, eliminating them or getting an assist for their elimination will be the only way to gain more RP from that enemy. There is no longer any assist timer. Assists are only rewarded if the enemy is killed before they get back up to full health and shields, as that is what constitutes an assist. This change allows players who are doing much more damage than their teammates during engagements but ending the game with the same amount of RP for kills/assists/placement be rewarded fairly for their efforts.

@kellanammann You haven't pulled any of them apart...

I'm going to let someone else explain it to you after this post that's broken down for you because it's really simple but you're just not getting it no matter how many times it's said.

''You are rewarded for damage you do to an enemy, up to a maximum per enemy of 225 damage''

Doesn't address farming max RP from one person/team and moving on!

''Nobody snipes as it is because knocks rarely lead to kills''

That won't matter with your idea implemented! This actually made me laugh when typing it and why this conversation is becoming pointless.

They do actually and why i suggest you go watch some comp plays in how that's used very effectively in charging evo not just yourself but swapping armours to charge teams too and this is the problem with your idea above cause EVERYONE WILL HAVE A SNIPER just to FARM DAMAGE. Damn this part is so simple i honestly don't get why it's so hard for you to understand, even as a solo player.

''Camping and sniping are both high risk high reward strategies''

Nope, CQC is much higher risk than ranged which you covered slightly here..

''Sniping allows for safer damage than close range'' but then went on to add '' it also draws in alot more 3rd parties because of how loud snipers are, and limits you're damage capability at close range, where it's highly likely that you'll end up because of how popular mobility legends are.''

Again you're ignoring roles of the team and their loadout. Just because one is sniping doesn't mean others aren't equipped for CQC if pushed. You also have mobility legends too.. Good luck trying to hunt down a good pathfinder that's sniping. 🤓

''as well as people waiting you out for when the circle forces you out of your camping spot.''

You would have farmed maximum damage before first ring so this is irrelevant. Unless there's no cap in which case your idea is even worse than i thought.

''And when you say "coding" I honestly think you're just trying to sound smart''

You don't need to know much about coding to know there are so many variables to consider when implementing this.

''Tier demotion: If you get demoted on purpose, that's gonna take quite a long time, and they could suspend anyone who is jumping off the map right away 5 games in a row''

You'll only need a couple games to get the badges for a character then how many would that be for all character that you play. You'll drop max RP for every single match you throw so it wouldn't take long. Maybe an hr or so a tier and remain in bottom tiers if i chose not to climb, quite easily. Also, how would they determine if you're throwing games? I don't need to jump off the map as i can just hot drop and get deleted. It would be impossible to determine me doing it intentionally or having a bad day or having a streak of bad luck.

''If you're complaining about how defensive legends play defensively, THEN DON'T PLAY DEFENSIVE LEGENDS OR PLAY THEM MORE AGGRESSIVELY.''

This is what i mean by your lack of understanding when it concerns teamwork. You can't just favour aggressive legends to climb ranked or pull those roles that benefit the team just to suit your idea.

''I always play caustic aggressively and typically do more damage than the octane and pathfinder on my team, so that argument is worthless.''

That's because you play with randoms, clearly.

The more we go into it the more holes there are and your idea is literally sinking but you think you have a solution to all the problems mentioned when you're not actually addressing any of them (or responding to feedback that could make it work like the multiplier) makes me believe it's not worth discussing this with you further and someone else can try speaking sense to you.

@apostolateofDOOMI think your main problem is assuming that people are just gonna farm max damage and then turn around and walk away to do it to someone else. People play this game to win and if you think that people are just gonna be scrambling around picking fights with team after team and not finishing the fights to get elimination and assist RP, get closer to winning the game, and removing a team that could eventually kill yours, then that would be like gathering up a bunch of people to simultaneously kick the sh*t out of you. It would be stupid of them, and I seriously disagree that anything like this would happen, were it even possible. If anything sniping needs to be seen more because 90% of my engagements happen at close range. If you think getting alot of RP is the point of ranked in this game for most people, you're dead wrong. The point is to get similarly skilled teammates without having to look for them and to eliminate teams and win games like it always has been. You assume people will just cheese it with snipers but that's only gonna let everyone else know where they are and they'll get 3rd partied like they already do. I have the evidence on my side, sniping just plainly gets you 3rd partied. You have no evidence, you just assume that people are going to stop trying to team wipe and just start leaving every enemy they fight alive so that they can potentially get killed by them later on in the game.

I have covered every variable that you've thrown at me, coding has nothing to do with variables. The actual coders will just have to see them implemented into the game files. You say there are so many variables but there were only a couple that you threw at me and it didn't make any difference.

There's literally no way you would fram the maximum amount of damage before the 1st circle closes dude. you seem to be forgetting about the people that drop on the other side of the map than you, who you can't even run into until like the 3rd or 4th to last circle. Again, wildly improbable and virtually impossible assumption of how people will play. You would have to have every team in the game take jump towers toward the center of the map, and if that happened, then 1 team isn't gonna f**k all of them up. It'll be your team killing 1 or maybe 2 teams and then dying, so people won't play like that for that exact reason.

Alright screw the idea of tier demotion. You seem to assume everyone is gonna play like a b***h and just lose on purpose which I'm sure some will, they'll gladly waste their time to have easier games (even though they could just play casual). Then once they have their undeserved badges they'll probably go back up to whatever tier they can reach. I don't see this being an issue if they just get launched back up for doing tons of damage. It should take longer to drop rank than to gain rank until you legitimately plateau.

Those roles that benefit the team should have no problem climbing ranks regardless of how they play. Like I said they're situational, but in defensive situations they excel far greater than other legends. If you aren't doing as much damage as other legends when you're playing Caustic, Wattson or Gibby, then you just blow with Caustic, Wattson and Gibby, aside from the very rare game of not ever getting the chance to implement their defensive abilities. Only Wattson is limited to ONLY defensive abilities, and hardly anyone plays her because of it. Caustic has his gas grenade and Gibby has his gun shield and airstrike. This wouldn't favor certain legends, it would favor higher damage dealers, aka better players. Just because you suck with defensive legends doesn't mean that defensive legends suck. Saying that I only do more damage than my teammates with Caustic because I only play with randoms [bad teammates] is the last brainless and insulting assumption that I'll hear from you. I'm done replying to you after this. You just have all of these assumptions, most of them personal attacks on me, alot of them just rude, and none of them carry any weight in proof. This isn't a thread about me b****ing that I'm a lower rank than I should be, this is a thread about the ranking system itself being flawed. You also seem to just think you're some psychic who knows how everyone will play the game and how coders will struggle and it's just ridiculous, and I truly mean worthy of ridicule.

The bottom line is that nobody will have any way of knowing until they make the change and try it out. I'm all for testing it and reverting the changes if it makes the meta sniping, but I find it unbelievably improbable that it will.

@kellanammann Ok, so you want evidence.

Ranked series 1 distribution,

5.1% Bronze
40.0% Silver
35.7% Gold
16.8% Platinum
2.1% Diamond
0.2% Apex Predator

Compare that to series 2 that was well known for dashboarding and alt f4 exploit.

3.9% Bronze
29.1% Silver
35.3% Gold
23.6% Platinum
7.1% Diamond
1.0% Apex Predator

Every category from platinum plus saw a huge increase in obtained RP (3-5x increase) so that proves that there are large portion of players (from the lower tiers that you're arguing would play just to be in same skill category) that will exploit and try to obtain a higher rank than they deserve, so when you say ''If you think getting a lot of RP is the point of ranked in this game for most people, you're dead wrong.'' it's you who is wrong and you have NO EVIDENCE to back up any of your claims. The EVIDENCE there is crystal clear - They do it to climb.

Look at the following series when they did something about some of the exploits most higher ranks fell back to more normal levels which also backs up my point instead of ''the community got better over time'' or some other excuse.

This also includes sniping from range when i've told you several times to watch some pro matches which also proves you wrong about sniping for damage. If it's safer to poke damage from range without the risk of trying to finish the squad then that's what people will do. You can check that out here: playapex - Twitch.

EVIDENCE in both cases you're just ignoring.

If you intend of having obtainable RP from damage for every person in the match with no cap like kills then you need to give your head a serious wobble and why i said you'll obtain all available RP in the first ring or likely close to unless you had significant damage giving RP and a lot more than the 225 you were saying earlier.

Tier demotion is covered by what was said at the beginning with ranked going by the percentage of players that will exploit. They will keep doing it until they get all their badges for their mains if they know they can't climb higher and intentionally stay in lower brackets. This is already a problem in ranked and no tier demotion protection would make it worse.

That's not me assuming anything when the EVIDENCE clearly speaks for itself.

Just for the record, i can play any legend in the top tier lobbies and have been doing most seasons since ranked was introduced so i have a pretty good idea of team composition, loadouts and roles they play so you don't need to try educate me.

I'm not attacking you... I think you're ignorant on basic points that have already been clearly explained and you have taken the solo player or stuck in a rank insulting. It's criticism that you do with what you wish, but not insulting.

The issues that you keep saying you have are not the RP system but your random team mates otherwise you wouldn't be complaining about them so much.

I came to that conclusion based on the EVIDENCE you provided...

''you can't always rely on teammates to help you with wiping a squad, and can almost never rely on randoms in plat or below''

''If you take ranked seriously you should be communicating with teammates and coordinating but those randoms annoy tf out of me''

''I'm CAPS LOCK BRO AND MY TEAMMATES lowercase af lmao''

''Nah bro if you're consistently knocking 2 of the 3 enemies and your team is so incompetent that they can't even knock one guy and he ends up killing you, that is unbearably frustrating''

''Ranks would actually be much more accurate because heavy hitters who pull more than their own weight would actually be getting the RP that they deserve, not getting shafted because someone is hammerpoint stealing their kills or unable to handle killing their own guy so trying to finishing kills is often more likely to get you killed by the guy your incompetent teammates failed to knock''

''Bottom line is that if you are leaving teammates in the dust with your damage and they're still getting much more RP than you, just for stealing your kills, (it wouldn't feel like stealing if damage was rewarded) something is definitely wrong with the RP distribution.''

''also your stereotypical Octane who runs off and dies by himself trying to get into senseless fights''

''There's also the massive issue of the kids that just don't stick with their team and put you at a huge disadvantage when they run off and die by themselves''

''I'm just upset because my teammates aren't pulling their weight and it's causing my rank to suffer''

''from my experience, teammates more often than not get the same reward for doing less, and that simply needs to change''

''Whether you'll admit it or not, it still had to be frustrating on some level when you knocked your guy and possibly one other, and the 3rd guy or last 2 kill you at low shield and/or health, cause your teammate was a potato, and you got no RP for any of it, just lost it because there's a buy-in cost''

''It's really hard to get kills when your team is garbage and both knocked right away leaving you to a 1v3.''

''I'm just simply trying to make ranked more accurate, as well as easier to climb for players who are actually competent, for the good of everyone who slings out hella damage but gets bad teammates all the god damn time, and gets fu*ked because they can't take care of their guys, and then the good player who pulled his own weight has to hopelessly attempt and fail to 1v2/1v3, all for no reward on the damage he did for his knockdown and the damage he did to the guys his teammates failed to kill. BS.''

''My teammates either don't kill anybody, barely do damage and get knocked, yet get the same amount of RP for the assist when I have to pull their weight for them and do way more damage to the guy that they only did 25 damage to while I'm at low health or shield because the guy I knocked was almost good enough to kill me''

''talking to someone doesn't guarantee that they won't play like s**t, ignore your suggestions, maintain their utter lack of situational awareness, dive head first into the crossfire of 6 teams by themselves just because they hear gunfire, still be a worthless teammate who puts up very little damage, dies, rips off his headset and goes afk while you waste your time redeploying him because you have to on the off chance that he comes back, since not being at a 2v3 disadvantage is your only realistic chance to win, or he doesn't go afk and he just does it again after you redeploy him, supposing you even feel like trying to grab his worthless banner, which most of the time you don't feel like risking your potential placement bonus to do. When one of your teammates pushes alone, even if the other agrees that it's a stupid deathwish, you both pretty much have to push with him, because even though you know it's suicide, if they die, you're subjected to 2v3s for the remainder of the game and you're screwed anyway.''

''You just have all of these assumptions, most of them personal attacks on me, alot of them just rude, and none of them carry any weight in proof.''

I would say there's more than enough evidence and proof provided.  I have also, unlike you, been perfectly reasonable throughout this entire thread.

If you want a fair system with damage being factored into RP then it would need to be connected with kills because your idea as it currently stands sucks which is the same as your attitude towards those that criticise it. 

Good luck with it though but not worth any more of my time.

I like these ideas actually, hope a dev reads this thread.

@afishthatvapesThey were discussed pretty extensively in general discussion a while back so hopefully they get some traction and forwarded by the CMs.

@EA_Kent As nothing of mine is forwarded from general discussion does that mean now it's in general feedback i have a better chance of it going through now? 😛

Re: Knockdowns and damage give RP in ranked - Page 5 - Answer HQ (ea.com)

Re: Knockdowns and damage give RP in ranked - Page 6 - Answer HQ (ea.com)

If you wouldn't mind sending them both up, that'd be great! 👍