It was infuriating to watch is the point of this post. They won because of two things, aim assist, and for some reason having a connection to the server that was obviously better than others.

The team moved together, but other than that, they really didn't use cover well, stood in the open, didn't strafe one bit. I noticed that they were all using controllers as well, running shotguns. The one guy couldn't land a single shot with r301 a 100 meters out. Probably the worst recoil control I've seen in a very long time. However, 10 meters or closer, they couldn't miss with a shotty. This is the new meta, roller and shotgun, and it sucks frankly.

Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close. They just snap to people, rotate perfectly with them, and bam, guaranteed 50 dmg or more, every single shot. Aim assist is still obnoxious, and still over tuned. When most fights end up taking place in a crowed tiny area, it's nearly impossible to beat a roller player using a shotgun.

The other issue is that some people are getting a different type of connection to the servers. I'm not trying to go down some conspiratorial rabbit hole, more that there's a bug in the networking that just gives some people more time to react. I know Respawn uses a lot of lag compensation in order to \"balance\" low ping and high ping players. So it could just boil down to that. There's an article explaining their philosophy on balancing if you want to read up on it.

Getting back to the team I just watch win. It seemed like people had a hard time damaging them. They were literally walking around in the open, mind you not strafing once, and the most burst damage I'd watch them take was about 30-40 damage, tops! I'm constantly getting beamed while trying to peak teams from odd angles, and these guys just walk around like terminators, unphased by anyone shooting at them. If I'm getting shot at, I have to assume that I've already taken twice the damage that's registered so far.

Lately, I'll beam someone with my favorite load-out, hit for a 100 + damage, and then they'll turn to me, and get me down to 25 health instantly, while having purple shields. Some of it's because people are cheating, but if it's always because of someone cheating, then damn, there's A LOT MORE cheaters than Respawn would like us to believe. It's been ridiculous lately.

It was infuriating to watch is the point of this post. They won because of two things, aim assist, and for some reason having a connection to the server that was obviously better than others.

The team moved together, but other than that, they really didn't use cover well, stood in the open, didn't strafe one bit. I noticed that they were all using controllers as well, running shotguns. The one guy couldn't land a single shot with r301 a 100 meters out. Probably the worst recoil control I've seen in a very long time. However, 10 meters or closer, they couldn't miss with a shotty. This is the new meta, roller and shotgun, and it sucks frankly.

Players on controllers using shotguns rarely miss up close. They just snap to people, rotate perfectly with them, and bam, guaranteed 50 dmg or more, every single shot. Aim assist is still obnoxious, and still over tuned. When most fights end up taking place in a crowed tiny area, it's nearly impossible to beat a roller player using a shotgun.

The other issue is that some people are getting a different type of connection to the servers. I'm not trying to go down some conspiratorial rabbit hole, more that there's a bug in the networking that just gives some people more time to react. I know Respawn uses a lot of lag compensation in order to \"balance\" low ping and high ping players. So it could just boil down to that. There's an article explaining their philosophy on balancing if you want to read up on it.

Getting back to the team I just watch win. It seemed like people had a hard time damaging them. They were literally walking around in the open, mind you not strafing once, and the most burst damage I'd watch them take was about 30-40 damage, tops! I'm constantly getting beamed while trying to peak teams from odd angles, and these guys just walk around like terminators, unphased by anyone shooting at them. If I'm getting shot at, I have to assume that I've already taken twice the damage that's registered so far.

Lately, I'll beam someone with my favorite load-out, hit for a 100 + damage, and then they'll turn to me, and get me down to 25 health instantly, while having purple shields. Some of it's because people are cheating, but if it's always because of someone cheating, then damn, there's A LOT MORE cheaters than Respawn would like us to believe. It's been ridiculous lately.

@WhoopFighter Hopefully I could help make sense of what @E9ine_AC is trying to say:

A lot of games use AA, (aka Aim Assist), to help console players compete against other players, (even other players who are on a console themselves). It is needed in games such as Apex Legends, (although most games do also let players turn off the AA).

XIM is a bannable piece of hardware, (aka, a physical item), that tricks the console into thinking a controller is being used, when in reality, a mouse and keyboard is what's actually being used. Xim does enable the ability to move side to side while looting a deathbox and also other movement that only a PC player could do, (or is easier to do on a PC), thus is a competitive advantage against other console players.

AA is something the Devs gives all controller players both on console and on PC to help compete, (while XIM is NOT provided, and is against the game's TOS, (Terms of Service), (where it states that you cannot use anything that gives a gameplay advantage)).

In terms of \"AA being different on console than it is on PC\", that's because on PC, its set to 0.4, while on console, its set to 0.6.

What this means is that on PC, your aim can be pulled to targets to help shoot them, but its not as strong as it would be if you were on console. (The closer you get to 1, the stronger the aim assist gets).

If we had a 0.8 aim assist, we'd be almost perfectly tracking other players while playing with a controller, while a 0.9 would be very close to \"never missing a shot\", (and 1 is basically aimbot, which is why the values aren't set that high, (and will never be set that high by Respawn)).

That begs the question:

Why is the AA values different on console than it is on PC?

The answer:

From what I understand, PCs tend to run at a higher framerate than consoles, (which is why the AA on console would get nerfed to 0.4 if you enable the 120 FPS setting that is available on a New Gen consoles). So, a 0.6 AA is meant to help Older Gen players compete against Newer Gen players and PC players.

In terms of XIM, (and even StrikePacks, Chronus Zen, etc.), all off those things are detected in a lot of different games, (such as Fortnite), and it will tell you to unplug those things, otherwise you'll get banned. If you're found using one in Apex Legends, you would also be banned as well.

In my honest opinion as well, the matchmaking was a lot better, (and less annoying), when PC players were able to OPT out of Cross-Play. Most of my lobbies now are filled with teams that consists of 1 PC player and two console players, (and most of the time, the two console players are running around with a StrikePack or something similar).

@Midnight9746 agree 100% with what you have posted

I've done enough of my own homework as well. How someone cant understand what your saying begs to question, why?

I posted about the TOS and outside software considered cheating and got a  \"can we stop derailing the thread\".

Seems the whole post has been talking about outside software or hardware affecting gameplay, and why we are seeing the most bot team win.

I did not like, and still don't like the fact that they took away our option to not play with cross play lobbies.

The most blatantly obvious smackdown on which is better is the sheer amount of pros who have switched.

Why would you switch, if there was not a competitive advantage? That says it all, and anyone who has watched the countless videos of pros saying how op and broken it is can attest to it.

If we had the choice like we used to, I don't know that we'd be having this conversation.

Until then, I believe will continue to see the most bot teams win 🙂

@WhoopFighter I pointed out facts being a day one apex player. You see we use to not have any complaints when it came to controllers. Then they added crossplay. But, with crossplay came an opt out option. We had the option at one time to not play against console aim assist. They seen too many people did not want to play with consoles and removed our option completely. Forcing us to play against console players every single match every single game mode. That is when the big hype around aim assist became a thing to complain about. It makes sense you choose to not wanna understand it or you was not around to know.

You are deflecting. Im pointing out how those devices are considered cheating in most fps titles. Fortnite, Pubg among other games will kick you from the game with a pop up window telling you hey we see you have this plugged in if you wish to play unplug it.

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@E9ine_AC wrote:

@WhoopFighterHey there, Xims and Cronus and other software like it such as rwasd and others are indeed considered cheating. They can earn you a ban or restrictions to play in most games that have competitive shooting and ranked.

These devices emulate another. So if someone on PC is using this device they can then grant themselves aimassist with their mouse and keyboard. This is a massive disadvantage to any legit player out there and to think its not would be quite unlogical. If someone is on console using this the same deal applies they get to play on mouse and keyboard while in console lobbies granting themselves aimassist. Having many advantages over others from movement to aim. 

Those who use it literally are tricking the games system into thinking they have only a controller plugged in. The game then grants their device aim assist since its being tricked. You see how strong aim assist is on controller itself now imagine aim assist on mouse and key and the amount of control and power it would hold. It is 100% cheating.

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 It's illogical to think that aim assist is fine then. Some players get assist, while others don't? How is that competitive? It's not.

And please address the point that it's an emulator. It's not doing anything other than what a controller can do. You will not in fact get banned using it. I've not seen or heard of a single person getting banned using a Xim device strictly as an emulator. Where's the logic in that it's fine for one input to have assist, but all of a sudden it's cheating if another gets the same built in assist?

Have any of you actually used a Xim before? It's not the same as using a mouse and keyboard natively on a PC. It's restricted by what the controller is allowed to do in what ever particular game.

How much assist should controllers get? There's tons of statistics out there to show that it's over-tuned as well. When looking up data for different game's I found the same issue, controllers always had higher accuracy, and by a lot.

The conversation always devolves to this. If you're not willing to look up statistics and be honest about them, it's a pointless discussion.

@WhoopFighter Hey there, Xims and Cronus and other software like it such as rwasd and others are indeed considered cheating. They can earn you a ban or restrictions to play in most games that have competitive shooting and ranked.

These devices emulate another. So if someone on PC is using this device they can then grant themselves aimassist with their mouse and keyboard. This is a massive disadvantage to any legit player out there and to think its not would be quite unlogical. If someone is on console using this the same deal applies they get to play on mouse and keyboard while in console lobbies granting themselves aimassist. Having many advantages over others from movement to aim. 

Those who use it literally are tricking the games system into thinking they have only a controller plugged in. The game then grants their device aim assist since its being tricked. You see how strong aim assist is on controller itself now imagine aim assist on mouse and key and the amount of control and power it would hold. It is 100% cheating.

@WhoopFighter 

Simply put, i dont think any cheating is ok, yet it appears you do. Name calling is really childish.

I had a lengthy discussion at one stage with someone who fundamentally understood the difference between aim assist and aimbot and they explained it to me. Perhaps you need to do a bit more searching and not just make assumptions and assertions.

@OldTreeCreeperWho is this person? What is their credibility. Clearly I've done more research than you, and I've given you what you need in order to read up on the subject, yet you never will.

You are overreaching a bit as a moderator. I think it's childish to chime in and say \"you better not even hint at cheating, otherwise you're gonna get banned\". Then to follow up, \"thanks for clarifying that you in fact did not recommend someone to cheat\". Seriously dude? Let conversations naturally form, you don't need to police things before they happen. If you didn't have the volunteer badge, I wouldn't have said anything, but you're sporting it, so there is some responsibility with that.

Using a Xim is not cheating, and that's an opinion. Saying that is outright cheating is another opinion, not fact. It cannot do anything different than what a regular controller can do. It emulates, doesn't change the function in any way.