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cheeterdude's avatar
cheeterdude
Rising Novice
8 months ago

Helicopters... who's in charge of this?

I've been playing battlefield since the beginning.  There isn't a game that I've spent more of my life playing actually.  I keep begging for the devs, Dice or EA or SOMEONE to do the helicopters justice.  My brother and I fly as a pilot/gunner combo and there is one very obvious shortfall with the Apache in BF6 (or others from previous Battlefields).  The splash damage from the gun.  Here is why this is a BIG problem.  You only give us 1 or sometimes 2 helicopters per map and honestly, they should be the scariest thing in the sky.  First, 1 or 2 rounds anywhere even close to an infantry target should obliterate them, modeled more closely to how a real Apache gun damages infantry.  For BF6, you have now REALLY limited the number of rounds that can be fired at once and your lucky if you can kill even 1 enemy after shooting very round you get! Second, the splash damage needs to be increased because the devs made staying alive in the helicopter nearly impossible (especially in BF6)!  Just on that one beta map, there is 1 Apache but the other team has their own Apache, up to 32 enemy players with seemingly infinite range stingers AND RPGs, multiple AA vehicles and static AA guns... for god's sake man, the only way to even attempt to survive is to fly around like a maniac to avoid everything.  God help you if you try to hover just above a mountain to lock on and pick off targets now (you will be sniped or hit with an RPG or tank shell in seconds).  I digress, I challenge anyone to try and be a gunner while the pilot is flying around like a crazy person AND get 4 or 5 DIRECT hits with a gun round on a single infantry target to kill them.  Its currently ridiculous. Third, this is an Apache we are talking about, why do I need 2 hellfires to destroy anything, especially a pickup truck (or a quad from 2042, which was laughable).

I'd encourage the devs to go watch some BF3 Apache gameplay footage.  Those were the days when the helicopters were pretty awesome (no complaints about weapons or gun damage then).  One of the things that always made Battlefield great was the large maps and lots of vehicles.  Infantry should be running scared any time a tank or helicopter shows up in your area. Instead, when a helicopter shows up now, you instantly have 15 people trying to lock it up with a stinger, the other 15 shooting RPGs at it and the impact on the "battlefield" is basically zero.  You made infantry king and made it pointless to even get into a vehicle.

My 2 cents: Helicopter rockets are "explosive" and infantry targets, especially, should be easily destroyed with 1 or 2.  Next, make the hellfires do double the damage.  You are limiting how many of those we can fire too and it takes way too long in the current environment to stay on target for a second or third lock and missle launch.  If nothing else, PLEASE make the gun do appropriate damage.  Maybe give the gunner a 10x or 12 zoom option so if we are hovering a mile away, they can actually see targets. Further, what was the thinking behind making the helicopter so fragile and so easily killed?  How about 2 or 3 RPGs to destroy a helicopter and/or 3 stingers.  If you need 2 hellfires to take out a pickup truck, it's only fair to make the helicopter a little stronger, geez :).  Almost done... If you are only giving us 1 or sometimes 2 helicopters per map then, do we really need to give their entire team stingers and RPGs PLUS several AA vehicles AND even more AA guns?  Good grief, some of us like flying the helicopters and contributing with air support but its currently almost impossible.

My final thought.  How about the Apache starts out with 8 hellfires, 70 rockets and 600 rounds of gun ammo that can be used however the pilot and gunner want, no delays, no overheating, etc. When you're out of ammo, you have to fly back to base and wait 1 or 2 minutes while you re-arm (similar to the 1;40 we'd have to wait for a destroyed helicopter to re-spawn anyway in 2042).  That way, when the Apache shows up, some people and vehicles are going to die for sure!  Only then would I "almost" understand letting the entire enemy team have some sort of weapon/vehicle that was designed to shoot down helicopters!  And during that re-arming process, the enemy gets a reprieve from the air support.  One can dream. 

Thanks for listening.

     

18 Replies

  • fjs1969's avatar
    fjs1969
    Rising Novice
    8 months ago

    MADMAC50K​ Hey, you raise an interesting point. But I don't think this discussion is really about whether attack helicopters are "realistic" or not. Battlefield has never been a hardcore MILSIM, and everyone understands that. If it were, then yes - your point would absolutely apply.

    The real issue here is game balance. Battlefield has always been about striking a balance between infantry, air vehicles, and ground vehicles so that no single role feels overpowered or underpowered. Right now, if a highly skilled chopper pilot can be instantly shot down by a lone engineer with a single Stinger missile, that balance feels off.

    To put another way - imagine if one engineer with a single RPG could one-shot every tank and IFV on the map. That would obviously be unfair and break the game. That's basically the situation helicopter pilots are facing right now, and that's why it feels unbalanced.

    Go play BF3 and BF4 and play a chopper pilot. You could get a decent amount of kills while also getting fairly shot down by either Stingers, jets, Helos, or other sorts of AA. I've had my fair share of getting destroyed by sweaty chopper pilots, but in the end, all it ever took was a couple of engineers with stingers to coordinate and take the chopper down.

    And remember, if it is fairly easy for a highly skilled chopper pilot to get shot out of the sky, what is the experience for a moderately experienced chopper pilot going to be like?

  • Vehicles and destruction are the core of Battlefield games, while land, sea, and air are the key combat elements. However, I feel the series has lost some of its former charm—just look at the pre-order numbers to see it.

  • DirtyStats's avatar
    DirtyStats
    Seasoned Rookie
    8 months ago

    Games all cod players now man, they don't know how to fight vehicles so they hired cod war zone lead and cod devs to obtain cod money from cod players, so every choice is geared towards if a cod player would like it or not.

     

    This game is bf in name only, I could handle most of the changes but the 1 I cannot and will not is the netcode DOWNGRADE, shot behind cover,1 frame deaths,  players not taking damage. Exact same issues as bf 2042, why? Because its the same engine.

     

    How could it ever be good when 2042 still has these issues to this very day

  • Going back to BF4 and having helicopters dominating with 100+ kill streaks with zero counterplay, I would not care in the slightest in helicopters are not good. 

  • cheeterdude's avatar
    cheeterdude
    Rising Novice
    8 months ago

    fjs1969 Precisely right.

    @MADMAC I dont think you are getting my point, at least from your last comment. If you are going to allow a chopper to be killed by 1 stinger (real), then make the chopper's weapons do (real) damage.  Sounds good to me.  OR if you are making me shoot 4 hellfires at one tank and limiting the number of gun rounds I can shoot at one time and reducing damage the gun rounds do and limiting the time when I can shoot out flares (all not real) AND 1 engineer can carry 3 stingers and 3 RPGs (not even close to real) and there are 64 potential enemy engineers on the battlefield (for a possible 192 enemy stingers and 192 enemy RPGs at any one time... laughably un-real), plus at least 2 AA vehicles and AA emplacements but only 1 or maybe 2 choppers... then as fjs1969 said, balance the hp on the choppers to survive longer.

    On top of all that, they actually had it right in BF3 and Bf4 (or at least it wasn't so glaringly pandering to sweaty infantry as it seems to be in BF6) so its weird that they went so far in the wrong direction.

  • The fact that the 2 most recent additions to the air vehicles in 2042 (A-10 and Frogfoot) have had to be nerfed, shows that DICE are still incapable of creating a good air vehicle balance and it's almost always in favour of the pilots.  So I doubt BF6 will be any different.  I'm expecting DICE to quickly pander to the pilots complaining they can't get 100-0 killstreaks anymore and the air vehicles will quickly be as OP as they were in 2042.  This is exactly the reason I'm not pre-ordering.

  • cheeterdude​ interesting that you say the A-10 is exactly what you want in Battlefield, but DICE disagree and have had to nerf it.  DICE should never release vehicles or weapons like that, when anyone who actually plays the game could tell them it's OP.  It just divides the community, and shows how little the current DICE devs know about the game.

    Based on what you said, I say let's make it realistic.  So Choppers do realistic damage, and infantry can carry 2 Stingers tops.  But then make the Helos have limited flares, have to land for 5+ minutes to reload, and take away things like self-repair, make them more vulnerable to small arms fire, and no eject.  How does that sound?

  • Well what about the cockpit view. You cabt see anything forci g you to play 3rd person. Pls bring Bf3 cockpit view, but without cockpit.

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