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akuheikomatsu
Seasoned Newcomer
6 months ago

Feedback: Heartbroken as a Long Time Fan of Series

Dear Developers, I want to start by saying that I intend to give this feedback as respectfully as possible. I mean no offense to the developers who worked hard on this title, but I want to give my h...

About Dragon Age The Veilguard General Discussion

Enter the world of Thedas, and join us in the community forums to talk about your experiences in Dragon Age: The Veilguard420 PostsLatest Activity: 4 days ago
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Dear Developers,

I want to start by saying that I intend to give this feedback as respectfully as possible. I mean no offense to the developers who worked hard on this title, but I want to give my honest feedback as a longtime fan of the series.

It breaks my heart to say I am putting down Dragon Age: The Veilguard. I tried to make myself enjoy this game for 32 hours, but I just couldn't. If I could demand a refund, I would. I purchased what I thought was a Dragon Age game. Veilguard is not the same Dragon Age that made me love the series. Perhaps I am no longer the target demographic for the game, but as someone who's played Dragon Age since 2009, Veilguard makes me feel alienated as a fan.

Writing, storytelling, and dialogue are the most important factors that determine whether I'll reach the end of a game. I can look past boring gameplay and outdated graphics. Even game-breaking bugs failed to destroy my love of games like Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim. But mediocre writing kills my enthusiasm for a game, no matter how good everything else is.

I came into Veilguard after just finishing Baldur's Gate 3. One of the things that always excited me about the Dragon Age series was immersing myself in the universe by role-playing the MC. I still cherish my first Warden after 15 years-- she was a human noble warrior who chose to live as a man to join her father and brother in fighting the Darkspawn. I role-played the entire game through this lens and ended the game with her

sacrificing herself to end the Blight.

I had already had an idea of who I wanted Rook to be. I chose the Antivan Crow background, intending for them to be a surly, reluctant antihero. This made sense to me, given the Crows are infamous as the most deadly assassins in Thedas. I also assumed this would be possible in Veilguard, as there were several ways to role-play the Inquisitor in Veilguard's immediate predecessor. Having options to play a new MC every playthrough is one reason why I've replayed both Origins and Inquisition multiple times.

But I was shocked that Rook appears to have a predetermined backstory and personality. No matter what dialogue options I chose, they always fit the archetype of the \"rogue with a heart of gold\" and feel like they belong in a Disney movie rather than in a Dragon Age game. For example, when I picked a justifiably angry dialogue option directed at one of the game's antagonists, he said, \"Please don't do this,\" with a pleading inflection.

This bridges into the overall tone of the game. I am concerned that this game fits the definition of toxic positivity. I expected the tone of Veilguard to be bleak given the game's circumstances:

Solas' interrupted ritual allowed two ancient blight gods to escape. These gods intend to destroy Thedas as we know it, destroying entire cities and leaving a massacre in their wake.

But the game injects a pathological amount of happiness and optimism into moments that should be anything but.

I felt extremely uncomfortable during the quest On Blighted Wings / On Deadly Wings.

I chose to go to Treviso as my Rook is a Crow. When I arrived, the atmosphere was abnormally calm considering a dragon was destroying the city. There's no emotion portrayed in the voiced dialogue from either Rook or the NPCs to convince me that anyone was in danger. And after they fended off the dragon? \"Good job! Way to go team!\" Aren't we going to acknowledge that a bunch of people just died? Shouldn't the tone be more grim? The destruction of Haven was a masterful example of characters acting appropriately in response to a tragedy (and now I have \"The Dawn Will Come\" stuck in my head). 

Afterward, Rook arrives in Minrathous to find it consumed by the Blight. Neve begins reprimanding Rook for abandoning the Shadow Dragons. While the decision text states, \"Neve is devastated by the impending chaos in Minrathous,\" her admonishment of Rook sounds like she's scolding a puppy for going potty in the house. Equally awkward is the fact that Tarquin is chilling next to a mortally wounded Viper and he doesn't sound upset at all. When the blight-stricken Viper responds torso), Tarquin responds with the \"frustrated groan\" of a teenage boy who's been told his Xbox is being taken away.

 

Veilguard made me miss the companions of the previous games, especially characters like Sera, whom I hated at first playing as a Dalish elf.  She's childish, bigoted, shortsighted, and vulgar. But I eventually came to love Sera because a well-written character provokes strong emotional responses.  Plus, most of her dialogue is comedy gold, such as when she tells Blackwall she saw the Empress's bottom, only to immediately follow up with: \"Well, I didn't. I drew it and someone said it was a good likeness. That's a story about trust.\"

On the other hand, Veilguard's companions are yes-folks who constantly sing your praises and never have any meaningful conflict with one another. I grew irritated during combat that whenever I defeated a standard enemy, it was \"Nice one, Rook!\" or \"That one goes to Rook!\" Or that Rook was complimented for solving a simple puzzle after the game tells you exactly how to solve it. Imagine a scrub tech repeatedly interrupting a surgeon while performing an emergency life-saving surgery to give platitudes like, \"Great job getting that bleeder, doctor! You're doing great!\" Talk about one of the fastest ways to get thrown out of an operating room.

The never-ending barrage of praise led me to perceive that the developers of Veilguard believe that constant validation, no matter how menial the accomplishment is, makes an effective team. However, the team that truly deserves praise is the team of wildly opposing personalities putting aside their personal vendettas to accomplish a goal greater than themselves and still manage to succeed. 

I cannot say that any of the Veilguard companions elicit the strong emotional response I had to characters like Sera. I have always loved the romance in the Dragon Age series, especially Alistair and Fenris. While I originally went for Cullen during my first Inquisition play-through, Solas' romance caught me by surprise, taking my breath away with his pensive disposition, unique speech pattern, and vague melancholy surrounding his interactions. I looked forward to discovering how Veilguard would conclude his relationship with a romanced Lavellan (only to be disappointed not by the final outcome but rather by how the scene played out). No adult scene was ever needed for this couple, as their cutscenes together in Inquisition painted the most beautiful picture of their tragic love and left the question of their intimacy up to interpretation. 

Showing, not telling. 

But I found no such connection with any of the companions in Veilguard. The personalities all feel the same--like I'm choosing between Cheerios, Rice Chex, or Bran Flakes when I really want Fruity Pebbles.  I chose a \"flirty\" dialogue option for Harding early on, and I did a double take as Rook says she looks \"adorable\" when she's focused in a very patronizing manner. If this is how adults flirt, my partner and I have been doing it wrong for the last decade. In fact, most of the flirtatious dialogue sounds like something you would say platonically to a friend. I left those conversations feeling like Rook had no intimate connection with that character.

Veilguard makes a few interesting choices when it comes to dialogue. The use of modern words breaks the immersion within the well-established universe. One positive thing I have to say about Veilguard is that it does an outstanding job with diversity and inclusion. Nonbinary folks have long existed throughout history, and they deserve media representation. But what hasn't existed for as long is the actual word nonbinary. Given that Dragon Age takes place in a medieval fantasy setting, I would have loved to see the writing team create their own word that blends into the Dragon Age universe. There was an opportunity for \"The Scene\" to be a powerful and inspiring lesson on gender identity and pronoun usage, but the downright negligent execution of the scene's writing and acting draws a direct comparison to Solas giving Corypheus his orb; the weapon served to the trolls on silver platter hurt those whom this scene tries to defend. What did Josephine say about the Game? Never show your cards to the enemy.

This game is rated M/17+, but the language used makes it feel like the primary audience is 10-12-year-olds. I believe the phrase \"doing it\" was used at least three times in one cutscene describing Solas' relationship with Mythal. Even if we consider that Taash is supposed to be young and immature, aren't they and Sera close in age? Sera's language is colorful at best and downright vulgar at worst. I'm not saying that swearing necessarily makes dialogue inherently better, but the only situation in which I've ever heard \"doing it\" used is parents talking around their very young children. Even kids don't talk like that. So tell me, which character better portrays the edgy behavior of youth?

There are many instances where the text shown on the dialogue wheel does not match the character's spoken words. When speaking with the First Warden, the text of the dialogue selection I made was, \"You're an idiot.\" But what Rook actually said was, \"You need to listen to me!\" Those are two completely different sentences. And once again, with Rook's tone, no wonder the First Warden doesn't take them seriously.

Finally, I'd like to touch base again on Veilguard's fatal flaw-- the dialogue relies way too heavily on telling rather than showing. Regrets of the Wolf is possibly one of the biggest let downs in the game next to the ending. I spent countless hours devouring fan theories on the Evanuris, the Titans, the Blight, Andraste, and the Old Gods. Dragon Age has always drip-fed us morsels of lore, enough to sway but not seduce. At this point, I had already stopped playing the game, so I watched the quest on YouTube. After every memory, the Scooby-Doo gang gathers around a table and straight up tells players the answers to the questions we've waited 10 years for. As an Orlesian noble would say: where's the subtlety? Where's the intrigue? And worst of all, the characters tell us how we're supposed to feel about the revelation. This is the most fundamental plot history that the entire series is founded upon, with a conclusion so anticlimactic that it hurts.

If you read this far, thank you for your patience. While I will not be finishing Veilguard, I will be replaying the first three games and their DLC. After this experience, I think I am unlikely to pick up another Dragon Age title in the future, but I hope this feedback can help improve the next game.

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Dear Developers,

I want to start by saying that I intend to give this feedback as respectfully as possible. I mean no offense to the developers who worked hard on this title, but I want to give my honest feedback as a longtime fan of the series.

It breaks my heart to say I am putting down Dragon Age: The Veilguard. I tried to make myself enjoy this game for 32 hours, but I just couldn't. If I could demand a refund, I would. I purchased what I thought was a Dragon Age game. Veilguard is not the same Dragon Age that made me love the series. Perhaps I am no longer the target demographic for the game, but as someone who's played Dragon Age since 2009, Veilguard makes me feel alienated as a fan.

Writing, storytelling, and dialogue are the most important factors that determine whether I'll reach the end of a game. I can look past boring gameplay and outdated graphics. Even game-breaking bugs failed to destroy my love of games like Fallout New Vegas and Skyrim. But mediocre writing kills my enthusiasm for a game, no matter how good everything else is.

I came into Veilguard after just finishing Baldur's Gate 3. One of the things that always excited me about the Dragon Age series was immersing myself in the universe by role-playing the MC. I still cherish my first Warden after 15 years-- she was a human noble warrior who chose to live as a man to join her father and brother in fighting the Darkspawn. I role-played the entire game through this lens and ended the game with her

Spoiler
Spoiler

sacrificing herself to end the Blight.

I had already had an idea of who I wanted Rook to be. I chose the Antivan Crow background, intending for them to be a surly, reluctant antihero. This made sense to me, given the Crows are infamous as the most deadly assassins in Thedas. I also assumed this would be possible in Veilguard, as there were several ways to role-play the Inquisitor in Veilguard's immediate predecessor. Having options to play a new MC every playthrough is one reason why I've replayed both Origins and Inquisition multiple times.

But I was shocked that Rook appears to have a predetermined backstory and personality. No matter what dialogue options I chose, they always fit the archetype of the \"rogue with a heart of gold\" and feel like they belong in a Disney movie rather than in a Dragon Age game. For example, when I picked a justifiably angry dialogue option directed at one of the game's antagonists, he said, \"Please don't do this,\" with a pleading inflection.

This bridges into the overall tone of the game. I am concerned that this game fits the definition of toxic positivity. I expected the tone of Veilguard to be bleak given the game's circumstances:

Spoiler

Solas' interrupted ritual allowed two ancient blight gods to escape. These gods intend to destroy Thedas as we know it, destroying entire cities and leaving a massacre in their wake.

But the game injects a pathological amount of happiness and optimism into moments that should be anything but.

I felt extremely uncomfortable during the quest On Blighted Wings / On Deadly Wings.

Spoiler
Spoiler

I chose to go to Treviso as my Rook is a Crow. When I arrived, the atmosphere was abnormally calm considering a dragon was destroying the city. There's no emotion portrayed in the voiced dialogue from either Rook or the NPCs to convince me that anyone was in danger. And after they fended off the dragon? \"Good job! Way to go team!\" Aren't we going to acknowledge that a bunch of people just died? Shouldn't the tone be more grim? The destruction of Haven was a masterful example of characters acting appropriately in response to a tragedy (and now I have \"The Dawn Will Come\" stuck in my head). 

Afterward, Rook arrives in Minrathous to find it consumed by the Blight. Neve begins reprimanding Rook for abandoning the Shadow Dragons. While the decision text states, \"Neve is devastated by the impending chaos in Minrathous,\" her admonishment of Rook sounds like she's scolding a puppy for going potty in the house. Equally awkward is the fact that Tarquin is chilling next to a mortally wounded Viper and he doesn't sound upset at all. When the blight-stricken Viper responds torso), Tarquin responds with the \"frustrated groan\" of a teenage boy who's been told his Xbox is being taken away.

 

Veilguard made me miss the companions of the previous games, especially characters like Sera, whom I hated at first playing as a Dalish elf.  She's childish, bigoted, shortsighted, and vulgar. But I eventually came to love Sera because a well-written character provokes strong emotional responses.  Plus, most of her dialogue is comedy gold, such as when she tells Blackwall she saw the Empress's bottom, only to immediately follow up with: \"Well, I didn't. I drew it and someone said it was a good likeness. That's a story about trust.\"

On the other hand, Veilguard's companions are yes-folks who constantly sing your praises and never have any meaningful conflict with one another. I grew irritated during combat that whenever I defeated a standard enemy, it was \"Nice one, Rook!\" or \"That one goes to Rook!\" Or that Rook was complimented for solving a simple puzzle after the game tells you exactly how to solve it. Imagine a scrub tech repeatedly interrupting a surgeon while performing an emergency life-saving surgery to give platitudes like, \"Great job getting that bleeder, doctor! You're doing great!\" Talk about one of the fastest ways to get thrown out of an operating room.

The never-ending barrage of praise led me to perceive that the developers of Veilguard believe that constant validation, no matter how menial the accomplishment is, makes an effective team. However, the team that truly deserves praise is the team of wildly opposing personalities putting aside their personal vendettas to accomplish a goal greater than themselves and still manage to succeed. 

I cannot say that any of the Veilguard companions elicit the strong emotional response I had to characters like Sera. I have always loved the romance in the Dragon Age series, especially Alistair and Fenris. While I originally went for Cullen during my first Inquisition play-through, Solas' romance caught me by surprise, taking my breath away with his pensive disposition, unique speech pattern, and vague melancholy surrounding his interactions. I looked forward to discovering how Veilguard would conclude his relationship with a romanced Lavellan (only to be disappointed not by the final outcome but rather by how the scene played out). No adult scene was ever needed for this couple, as their cutscenes together in Inquisition painted the most beautiful picture of their tragic love and left the question of their intimacy up to interpretation. 

Showing, not telling. 

But I found no such connection with any of the companions in Veilguard. The personalities all feel the same--like I'm choosing between Cheerios, Rice Chex, or Bran Flakes when I really want Fruity Pebbles.  I chose a \"flirty\" dialogue option for Harding early on, and I did a double take as Rook says she looks \"adorable\" when she's focused in a very patronizing manner. If this is how adults flirt, my partner and I have been doing it wrong for the last decade. In fact, most of the flirtatious dialogue sounds like something you would say platonically to a friend. I left those conversations feeling like Rook had no intimate connection with that character.

Veilguard makes a few interesting choices when it comes to dialogue. The use of modern words breaks the immersion within the well-established universe. One positive thing I have to say about Veilguard is that it does an outstanding job with diversity and inclusion. Nonbinary folks have long existed throughout history, and they deserve media representation. But what hasn't existed for as long is the actual word nonbinary. Given that Dragon Age takes place in a medieval fantasy setting, I would have loved to see the writing team create their own word that blends into the Dragon Age universe. There was an opportunity for \"The Scene\" to be a powerful and inspiring lesson on gender identity and pronoun usage, but the downright negligent execution of the scene's writing and acting draws a direct comparison to Solas giving Corypheus his orb; the weapon served to the trolls on silver platter hurt those whom this scene tries to defend. What did Josephine say about the Game? Never show your cards to the enemy.

This game is rated M/17+, but the language used makes it feel like the primary audience is 10-12-year-olds. I believe the phrase \"doing it\" was used at least three times in one cutscene describing Solas' relationship with Mythal. Even if we consider that Taash is supposed to be young and immature, aren't they and Sera close in age? Sera's language is colorful at best and downright vulgar at worst. I'm not saying that swearing necessarily makes dialogue inherently better, but the only situation in which I've ever heard \"doing it\" used is parents talking around their very young children. Even kids don't talk like that. So tell me, which character better portrays the edgy behavior of youth?

There are many instances where the text shown on the dialogue wheel does not match the character's spoken words. When speaking with the First Warden, the text of the dialogue selection I made was, \"You're an idiot.\" But what Rook actually said was, \"You need to listen to me!\" Those are two completely different sentences. And once again, with Rook's tone, no wonder the First Warden doesn't take them seriously.

Finally, I'd like to touch base again on Veilguard's fatal flaw-- the dialogue relies way too heavily on telling rather than showing. Regrets of the Wolf is possibly one of the biggest let downs in the game next to the ending. I spent countless hours devouring fan theories on the Evanuris, the Titans, the Blight, Andraste, and the Old Gods. Dragon Age has always drip-fed us morsels of lore, enough to sway but not seduce. At this point, I had already stopped playing the game, so I watched the quest on YouTube. After every memory, the Scooby-Doo gang gathers around a table and straight up tells players the answers to the questions we've waited 10 years for. As an Orlesian noble would say: where's the subtlety? Where's the intrigue? And worst of all, the characters tell us how we're supposed to feel about the revelation. This is the most fundamental plot history that the entire series is founded upon, with a conclusion so anticlimactic that it hurts.

If you read this far, thank you for your patience. While I will not be finishing Veilguard, I will be replaying the first three games and their DLC. After this experience, I think I am unlikely to pick up another Dragon Age title in the future, but I hope this feedback can help improve the next game.

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Feel the same about the game. Really enjoy the combat but the story and dialogue doesn't do it for me. I found Emmrich to be the one companion with any kind of nuance to him, so I went in to romance him with my very middle aged/older looking Rook. I was then surprised that, without telling me anything about this before, the game predetermined that my Rook was actually young enough for the age gap with him to raise eyebrows amongst the other companions. All the rp potential seems to just have been squandered, and the story and feeling itself feels so divorced from what I came to know as Dragon Age.

Another comment on this thread also mentions the disappointment they felt with what they had done with Nevarra and its necromancy, and I really agree on that as well.

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Feel the same about the game. Really enjoy the combat but the story and dialogue doesn't do it for me. I found Emmrich to be the one companion with any kind of nuance to him, so I went in to romance him with my very middle aged/older looking Rook. I was then surprised that, without telling me anything about this before, the game predetermined that my Rook was actually young enough for the age gap with him to raise eyebrows amongst the other companions. All the rp potential seems to just have been squandered, and the story and feeling itself feels so divorced from what I came to know as Dragon Age.

Another comment on this thread also mentions the disappointment they felt with what they had done with Nevarra and its necromancy, and I really agree on that as well.

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