Please can assists be looked at…Like nuked into oblivion, I understand that assists are their to help all play, but when racing multiplayer should a person on full assists be quicker than a person on zero assists, their is absolutely zero incentive to get off the assists because they keep getting faster whilst medium & full traction users get quicker it’s so bad & frustrating when a non assist user has taken the time to learn, to enjoy league racing to have all that had work annihilated by a full TC user just flying past out of corners takes the fun out of the game then knowing that you’ve not got a chance against Assisted Users especially online

With F1 being a simcade and with the way the competitive scene is laid out, it's to no one's surprise that discussions like this miss the mark so often.@RVladimiro and @catchygaaaa, thank you for being sound and reasonable 👍Let's break it down:Excellent driver: Rarely, if ever, overshoots their inputs. Brakes to the full capabilities of the car on any given scenario and is quick on the modulation when they sense the wheels locking up. Throttle application is on point, getting on the gas on the proper exit point as to reach wide open throttle - WOT quickly. If they ever miss it, they're quick to react and feather it just enough for the rear end to bite again or the grip to increase and enable WOT. Jarno on a good day? Let's put it like this.Good player: Plays with no assists and hit good lap times. Is competitive in leagues and has good standings on TT boards. Obviously not every lap is perfect and they're bound to pick up an off-track here and there, but when they nail it, they nail it. Only uses those "good", proper esports setups of LLRR or RRLL or LRRR or RLRR or whatever the meta is these days.Average player: Reasonable times with no assists, but they're not winning any open championships. Have fun on leagues. Feels energized whenever they break into top 20% of the TT leaderboards. When they feel pressed, they fall back on to ABS and TC on medium because why not? That podium is just right there... Also copies whatever LLRR setups they can get a hold of.Casual player: Loves My Team, loves Career. Plays most of the time with assists on, but can venture into no-assist territory when they feel like being precise, but are not as skillful or not inclined to give it the time to become precise with their old man/casual fingers. Don't dab with online much, too much carnage and too much unpleasantness on the lobbies that the matchmaking lock them into.Sticking with Jarno, back when F1 22 came out he was a guest on the Traxion's podcast. He mentioned how the recently released F1 game made strides into being more realistic, punishing players for going arcadely ham on kerbs and the like, but lamented how it still wasn't enough to do away with the infamous esports line. We've all heard about it. Jarno lamented that, and though I do not follow him as closely as some of you do I'm positive he did not change his mind.Now there's being a fast driver, and there's being good at exploiting what this simcade faulty simulation of reality enables you to get away with. Attacking a kerb like it's no one's business, getting on with bottoming out without much care in the world. And above all, getting away with unreasonable RRLL et al setups as the game does not punish you for running with unrealistic suspension geometry and stiffness.Just this week we had @DavidGG53 giving his general guidance on everything setup related. Lengthy post where he gives a ballpark to set up every single parameter in that setup screen, always accompanied by a justification of what they choose to do so. And yet no mention of a "RRLL" or min this, max that. The reason being, and I'm pretty confident @RVladimiro, @catchygaaaa and others with a penchant for motorsports plus the experience of ever having used a h-shifter on their life, is that those unrealistic extreme values add instability to the ride. It just so happens that you can get away with it on this simcade rendition of motor racing, specially if you're an excellent driver or a good player (list above). Now the latter will sometimes eat dirt for their ballsy moves or their lapse in focus, that's the toll the game collects for running with an extreme setup, but so what?That said, have the good and average players ever given a reasonable setup a fair go? Back in the day of the original Codemasters Forum and, what, F1 2020 or F1 2021, I made a lengthy post myself with telemetry data showing how if you were to set a good amount of toe in on the rear axle there was no difference in straight line acceleration and top speed (tested on Monza), and the added stability in and out of corners made it so much easier to brake and apply throttle. It was just free stability, all pluses with no drawbacks.And yet, RRLL everywhere.Jarno again and many other esports players often put out the infamous "does assist make you faster?" sort of video. Please bear in mind that these are made for entertainment, engagement and views on their channels, and the methodology varies from "oh that's actually reasonable" to non-existent, so they're not all worth the same. I'm particularly fond of Jarno's, and I always remember this one. His results:In the video he explains why ABS made him 0.1 slower but why he felt he could have been 0.1 faster.Now how much faster assists make you?To tie it all up:Excellent driver: Won't gain any time using assists.Good player: May gain some time using assists compared to the laps they greatly overshoot their inputs, but more often than not will only make them slower. Wish they could give a fair setup a go and check if their overall laptimes over the distance wouldn't get better 😉Average player: Compared to themselves running without assists? Of course they will gain time! If even their good laps are 2-4% apart from each other, it is only logical that they will get more consistent hence closer to their performance ceiling with assists correcting their eventual grotesquely off the mark inputs. And again, my suspicion is that their overall laptimes would get better if they have a reasonable setup a go 😉Casual player: Same, but to a larger degree.I find it deeply contradictory that the "good" and even the "average" players of the bullet list above so often demand that assists get nerfed to oblivion but do not give a hoot about RRLL setups being usable. They get vexed with average players nibbling close with assists on, when they should truly care about unreasonably unstable cars driving on unrealistic lines getting away from them.Just my two (lengthy) cents. People wouldn't feel the need to nerf assists that often if the game wasn't so simcadey.

@Jafmasterflash7 I have to completely agree with what you’re saying here. A full Assist being reward, only like 2 or 3 tenths of people without assists. It really needs sorting.

Will never happen in a mainstream F1 licensed SimCade. As it relies on sales. Vast majority of people who buy the game play for fun. A few hours here and there using a controller. They don’t have the time to put the effort into Gitting Gud. and especially don’t want to pay hundreds out buying a sim setup, which Is needed to Git Gud enough to be comfortable enough to race online without assists. If you want to race others who take the time and spend the money to Git Gud there are plenty off hardcore sims to choose from.This game is designed to be a SimCade that is accessible to kids and beginners and casual F1 fans The guys that are really good at this game don’t complain about players using assists

I've got to agree with what has been said here, the risk/reward from running lower assist just isn't worth it for how full tc is.They aren't feeling the slip of tyres, can just floor it through every corner and don't feel tyre wear like other assists do. It needs to be nerfed to stop then taking advantage of this!

@catchygaaaa Yep, your braking and braking bias experience aligns just right with what we had discussed on the beta programme. I had 56% as a baseline and adjusted from there.Greco expects to see a range of 53-58% being used.Hopefully this model sticks and doesn't need to be hacked back to what we ended up getting with post-release F1 22.When I told you to call out the user or users on their behavior, it wasn't to pick up a fight. A good number of people can and will drop their shenanigans once their bad attitude is singled out.If the thread derails, mods (real ones, not regular users with silly badges 🙃) will simply lock the whole thread to everyone's loss.As Ultra pointed out, the discussion is benefitial.I may come around to doing just that sometime in the near future, but for those interested there are a set of parameters to test how much assists interfere with player inputs. Just hook your session to a telemetry app or service for starters.To test straight line acceleration and braking, I used to go to Monza and align the car on the outside white line on the S/F straight, just when the DRS sensor would indicate 0m to the activation line.Automatic transmission on to exclude you mistiming your shifting could help.Then bang on throttle all the way to whatever reliable braking marker you want to use, then bang on the brakes. Two laps for each set of assists you want to rest (only TC, only ABS, no assists, TC+ABS, etc) and just check rate of acceleration (or how steep the speed trace gets) both on throttle and on braking.On braking, one should also consider taking note of how long it takes to go from 200kph or so to 80kph, and from 200kph to a full stop, as it is when the downforce decreases with the square of the car's speed that locking up becomes a real threat.Numbers may seem small, but on live scenarios assists tend to interfere way more. There should be zero to negligible body roll on that test whereas on track you'll always have an unequal load distribution across all four corners of the car, with an overall grip deficit given how grip and load are not exactly linear, so ABS and TC will cut in way sooner, way harder and way longer.

NERFING assists | EA Forums

76 Replies

Free23ds2
3 years ago
@Jafmasterflash7 I have to completely agree with what you’re saying here. A full Assist being reward, only like 2 or 3 tenths of people without assists. It really needs sorting.
ScarDuck14
Legend
3 years ago
Will never happen in a mainstream F1 licensed SimCade. As it relies on sales. Vast majority of people who buy the game play for fun. A few hours here and there using a controller. They don’t have the time to put the effort into Gitting Gud. and especially don’t want to pay hundreds out buying a sim setup, which Is needed to Git Gud enough to be comfortable enough to race online without assists.

If you want to race others who take the time and spend the money to Git Gud there are plenty off hardcore sims to choose from.
This game is designed to be a SimCade that is accessible to kids and beginners and casual F1 fans
The guys that are really good at this game don’t complain about players using assists
BadMayh3m
Seasoned Ace
3 years ago
@ScarDuck14 Am I missing something?

The OP is in a league that allows assist and he wants EA/CM to nerf assist cause his league won't.....am I reading this right?🤔
Ultrasonic_77
Hero
3 years ago
Assists are an important part of the game to make it accessible but I don't think that rules out the sort of balancing the OP is asking for.
tjmartin-92
New Adventurer
3 years ago
I've got to agree with what has been said here, the risk/reward from running lower assist just isn't worth it for how full tc is.
They aren't feeling the slip of tyres, can just floor it through every corner and don't feel tyre wear like other assists do. It needs to be nerfed to stop then taking advantage of this!
catchygaaaa
3 years ago
Surely the point of assists is to entice a new gamer into the self reward that F1 brings in getting better and faster..
If running heavy assists is quicker than running none without years of practice and £ks of equipment, they will never try to improve.
If there is no easy way to improve, boredom will set in quicker and those new gamers will eventually drop off anyway.
I think the devs are missing an easy way to hook more racers in by them seeing if they drop the assists, step by step, they'll, with a lil practice, instantly be faster and racing better people. This will drive the whole community into upskilling..
Yes it is infuriating too as a league racer to see regular racers just using throttle and and brakes as on/off buttons and be easily a simular pace to myself as an average speed non assist racer..
I'll never be esports pace, I know that, but I should be much quicker than a button basher through my time to learn trail braking and throttle control.. The casual should be looking to me, another average driver, and thinking if I drop assists, I could easily beat him next season/game.
Jafmasterflash7
3 years ago
I take on board everything that you said & whilst I agree to certain aspects of what you said I disagree on others…
on TT I average around 1500 itw Xbox that’s my limit try as I might i can’t get faster… I’ve played the F1 games since 2016 yet someone who’s picked the game up since 22 can go over a second faster in TT on full assists
there’s no skill or “getting gud” involved it’s just ham hands on buttons & surely it should be at least a level playing field for all
there’s no incentives for them to learn or get gud where as if assists were not so OP they would quickly realise that coming off assists would make them faster & better drivers meaning online wouldn’t be FUBAR as assist users can just hit you & drive by with no repercussions where as an non assist user 10/10 times will spin & how is that fair!?
CDavies17
3 years ago
@Jafmasterflash7 Have to agree, the amount of times I get a drive using full assists on me and just casually out traction me is unfair I play with 0 assists and would say I’m a average player. If Full Traction Control exits at low speed was nerfed it would be better for everyone
Jafmasterflash7
3 years ago
No I don’t think you are reading this right, I mentioned my league because that’s where I race most… but, it’s online & TT’s in general
A player using zero assists will get done out of corners everywhere everytime to a person that is on full assists
theirs no incentive at all for them to learn
Then theirs the contact model… a full assists user can go around the outside of most corners & if they contact a zero assist user the zero assist user always comes of worst
RVladimiro
3 years ago
@catchygaaaa before anything else, I do agree that assists shouldn't make racers faster than people without assists, unless people without assists are not as good as they think they are.

But I want to add something about this "Surely the point of assists is to entice a new gamer into the self reward that F1 brings in getting better and faster."

Not necessarily. I'm an older dude that loves racing games. I have an entry level rig and wheel. I have no interest whatsoever to get better and faster because the natural progression of things is that I get worse and slower. However... I don't league racing or any other kind of multiplayer thingy, so there's that...

I just want to enjoy the game and assists are there for that reason also. It's not only an entry point, it is, for many people like me, the way to be able to casually enjoy the games I like of the sports I love.

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NERFING assists

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