There, I said it.
I know you(Bioware) want me to pick Reyes, and made her one of the few killable characters in the game, but she's straight with me and the world, has a beautifully complicated backstory, and both the game and her will allow me to meet her snark for snark.
Sloane great pick
@Kondaru wrote:
But at least Sloane was being straight to me from the beginning.
OK, so I considered once more all those people stating that Sloane was straight with Ryder from the beginning. So...
You really expected that when You visit Sloane in her stronghold, sitting on the throne, she will tell You: "Pssst, I am not Sloane, I know nothing about Outcasts, and I just LOVE the Initiative" or something? Of course she was straight with Ryder - she has literally nothing to hide since she in the position of power. Reyes is not. If someone learns about him being the Charlatan he will be killed. He is running a guerilla / partisan fight with the Outcasts, and thus he *must* keep his second personality a secret. It's not about being straight - because seriously I doubt if Sloane WOULD BE straight with Ryder if situation changed. I would even say that she already proved that she was just as wicked with hiding truth about Ketts still being on the planet, and with requiring Ryder to keep the fact a secret.
So no: Sloane is NOT straight. :-(
I chose Sloane again this play and went back to the Hidden Collective base for the first time in the three that I have chosen Sloane....all the collective there were now red enemies, the prisoners in the cells below were killed by a shot to the back of the head, there was a huge stash of Initiative material in the base, and there was still the poison factory of mushrooms being grown behind the base.
Uh... You believe it is more humanitarian to shot prisoners up front? Or do You believe that Collective agents should simply put down their guns, release prisoners, and surrender to Outcasts in order to be better tortured and shot in the back of their heads instead? :-o
Or do You believe that after firmly standing against them - and possibly even shooting their boss - they should still treat You as a potential ally?
Mushroom farm was in the Collective Base since the start, and I do not really see issue here. You believe that guns and bombs are OK, but poison is not, am I right? Well, in my opinion all those things are for killing people, and the only difference is how - and against whom - they are used. :-(
Poison has been in base since beginning.....yup, I consider it in many ways worse than a bomb or gun, because one of the things MOST useful about poison is that it is usually hidden and a way to kill without anyone knowing WHO or WHEN(usually) someone was actually poisoned. A gun, pretty easy to see when and who, bomb, leaves all sorts of evidence and is obvious when it happens. And ahh, poor Reyes, he is fighting such a bad person, it is OK, to torture people, poison them, execute prisoners instead of letting them go or taking them with you, it is ok, to doublecross agreements, and it is ok to use people JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE FIGHTING SOMEONE SOOOO BAD....sure, he will change EVERYTHING about how he treats people and deals with people in his way, JUST AS SOON AS HE GETS HIS WAY.........yeah right, I got a great deal on a bridge if you want to buy it.....
I wasn't actually expecting them to still be allies....I expected them to NOT BE THERE....wasn't even complaining about being able to kill them, kinda enjoyed it actually...I was more making a point that Reyes is JUST as dirty or more so than Sloane, and can't be trusted any more than She can, and probably even less, since he plays at being your Friend. I was also surprised by the Initiative supplies you can recover from the base, and happy to take them.....wonder if they are part of Spender's theft, interesting concept....
I would rather have someone who I know doesn't really like me, but we can deal together, than to have someone blow sunshine up my posterior and tell me it's a flashlight shining, while looking to kill me........I can't see trusting Reyes with anything, and I will NOT give him more power on 99% of my plays....
But hey, this is my opinion and what I prefer.....
@mcsupersport wrote:
Poison has been in base since beginning.....yup, I consider it in many ways worse than a bomb or gun, because one of the things MOST useful about poison is that it is usually hidden and a way to kill without anyone knowing WHO or WHEN(usually) someone was actually poisoned. A gun, pretty easy to see when and who, bomb, leaves all sorts of evidence and is obvious when it happens. And ahh, poor Reyes, he is fighting such a bad person, it is OK, to torture people, poison them, execute prisoners instead of letting them go or taking them with you, it is ok, to doublecross agreements, and it is ok to use people JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE FIGHTING SOMEONE SOOOO BAD....sure, he will change EVERYTHING about how he treats people and deals with people in his way, JUST AS SOON AS HE GETS HIS WAY.........yeah right, I got a great deal on a bridge if you want to buy it.....
I wasn't actually expecting them to still be allies....I expected them to NOT BE THERE....wasn't even complaining about being able to kill them, kinda enjoyed it actually...I was more making a point that Reyes is JUST as dirty or more so than Sloane, and can't be trusted any more than She can, and probably even less, since he plays at being your Friend. I was also surprised by the Initiative supplies you can recover from the base, and happy to take them.....wonder if they are part of Spender's theft, interesting concept....
I would rather have someone who I know doesn't really like me, but we can deal together, than to have someone blow sunshine up my posterior and tell me it's a flashlight shining, while looking to kill me........I can't see trusting Reyes with anything, and I will NOT give him more power on 99% of my plays....
But hey, this is my opinion and what I prefer.....
Maybe all it really will boil down to do you want to be shot in the face or in the back. I'd rather be shot in the face. 👿
Nexus leadership is what created this people tann's incomptence created a lot of situations that frankly if the founder was still alive would most likely never have happend then there is addison's two faced act where she claims to trust you but goes behind your back and makes all sort of terrible plans that backfire helariously can't you blame sloane for sidding with the rebellion against this two idiots honestly spender is simply the product of a much larger problem I'm not saying Sloane are Reyes are good people I'm merely saying that they are the product of nexus incomptency
@PretzleMe wrote:
Personally, if Reyes betrayed us, my character would be disappointed, but I wouldn't. Because I do think there's enough logic to support him turning on us. I wouldn't feel like it was forced.
But what about you? If Reyes turned out to be a stand up guy, would you be upset? Would you feel like it was forced?
I happen to think Sloane has some redeeming qualities and Reyes is probably going to screw me (Metaphorically not Physically) eventually, but I could accept it if the game kept him from turning out to be a bad guy.
Sadly, whether or not Sloane has the kind of warrior's honor that would make her look me in the eye when she kills me, I do have it. So until they modify High Noon so that stopping the sniper doesn't automatically make Reyes lose, Sloane is staying in the big chair.
I'd think that a workable tweak would be something like this: If you don't stop the sniper Sloane dies like normal. If you do stop the sniper but don't shoot Reyes his guys show up and force you and Sloane to flee in a hail of gunfire, hopefully including the Tempest pulling a high speed pickup of you in the Nomad, and Reyes takes over. If you do stop the sniper and do shoot Reyes he runs off like normal and Sloane stays in control
A more adventurous version of the tweak would include the following option: If you completed Liam's Loyalty Mission before this you can optionally bring him along. If you do he and Cora show up with you. Liam takes out the sniper and you have Cora Biotically incapacitate Reyes and Sloane, and you decide the fate of Kedara.
1&2)You can put Reyes or Sloane in charge with the loser stripped of their gear, personal electronics included, and dumped on Elaaden with a gun.
3) You can send them both to Elaaden, give Liam their gear, tell him he is exiled for one too many shenanigans, and suggest that Kedara is the perfect place to follow his impulses, especially if he is in charge. If you have completed Charlatan's Charlatan SAM will have enough to use Reyes' gear to take control of most of the Collective, and Sloane's gear may give Liam the ability to take over at least part of the Outcasts.
4) You allow the dual to occur without outside influence. The outcome may potentally be determined by your interactions/standing with both sides. Reyes always survives and wins or escapes. Possibly the same for Sloane.
5) You kill Sloane and Kill/wound Reyes, and have the militia try to occupy Kedara
For any of the options you have the opportunity to exile Liam, and Cora will provide chapter and verse from the rules to justify it
I would have killed them both and taken over Kadara.
taking over may not have worked as the pathfinder your extremely busy unless you expect incomptents are us aka the nexus to run a port where everyone hates them :D
you will notice a lot of this exiles tolerate you while planning to blow up your outposts while your not looking Edora [did i spell that right] for example on kadara was planning to blow up your outpost
Poison has been in base since beginning.....yup, I consider it in many ways worse than a bomb or gun, because one of the things MOST useful about poison is that it is usually hidden and a way to kill without anyone knowing WHO or WHEN(usually) someone was actually poisoned.
I do understand that poison seems to be devious, and I somehow sympathize with Your perceiving it to be worse than guns and bombs. But I still believe that "how" and "on whom" is more important. Just please consider: young boy scout poisoning a bad Nazi for torturing his mom until death; and the said Nazi shooting praying Jews in the getto with a big machine pistol, and then blowing houses with occupants still inside... :-(
And how about drugs? Do You believe poison to be worse than drugs?
And ahh, poor Reyes, he is fighting such a bad person, it is OK, to torture people, poison them, execute prisoners instead of letting them go or taking them with you, it is ok, to doublecross agreements, and it is ok to use people JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE FIGHTING SOMEONE SOOOO BAD...
Well, Sloane is *not* officially fighting paupers, Angara, and other exiles, but she still tortures them, executes them (please note that if Collective released Outcasts then those Outcasts would in a short while fight against them again; which is NOT the case of Sloane/Outcasts vs. Vehn Terev), drugs own subjects, etc.
And yes: I believe that when a weaker party fights the *oppressor* then it is entitled to employ *some* of the more controversial methods. For me goals are just as important as means.
Please note that the poison can be used e.g. to provide means to Collective agents to commit suicide when caught by Outcasts.
I wasn't actually expecting them to still be allies....I expected them to NOT BE THERE...
Uh... How is it a fault of partisan/guerrilla fighters to be in their secret base? You would prefer all of them to be already caught up by Outcasts and shot in the back front of their heads? :-o
I was more making a point that Reyes is JUST as dirty or more so than Sloane, and can't be trusted any more than She can, and probably even less, since he plays at being your Friend.
OK, but I still can't see Your point. How is he more dirty, and can't be trusted? You decided to act against him, and probably even shot him. How do You expect him to react so You can considered him trustworthy?
But hey, this is my opinion and what I prefer.....
Sure thing. But just one more thing for consider...
You are *assuming* that Reyes will turn out bad. There are no proves he will, while there are many arguments proving he won't... But OK - You *assume*.
How can You be sure that in one week after the game's ends Sloane will not bomb the Nexus and then run a full frontal assault on Eos? After all the fact that she does not allow Outcasts to fight the Collective at first may be very well because she is rallying forces for something... bigger. Has she ever told You that she is not willing to clash with the Initiative? I guess she has never promised You a truce or anything, right? ;-)
Nexus leadership is what created this people tann's incomptence created a lot of situations that frankly if the founder was still alive would most likely never have happend then there is addison's two faced act where she claims to trust you but goes behind your back and makes all sort of terrible plans that backfire helariously can't you blame sloane for sidding with the rebellion against this two idiots
I guess that You forgot to mention that Sloane was one of the Nexus leaders prior to the uprising, and was consciously hiding the truth about the mission from them along with Tann and Addison - which was the very issue that sparked the mutiny. And it was always Spender who was conspiring and stirring people up. Right, he was an assistant to Addison, so I guess she *can* be blamed, but still it was Spender rather than Addison, and definitely not Tann. And please note that Sloane was accepting to Spender as well.
All Tann's decisions were generally correct - his main fault was that he was unable to communicate them in a way that would convince people. Which is expected - he was a mathematician rather than a charismatic leader. In the result he had consciously depended on Addison and Sloane to communicate with others... And well, You surely see where it got him, especially with Sloane. His last fault was to fall into Spender's scam about Krogans (Spender deliberately "promised" them more than he was allowed), and then not being able to overcome own specism/racism.
So yap, Sloane *can't* be blame for siding with the rebellion against... herself? ;-)
I've played out saving Sloane and I have to say that if I met even a hint of that Sloane beforehand, my decision would have proven more difficult.
Makes me feel like Sloane is forced in someway. Like it was almost their intent to make us not like Sloane. But it seems forced to have her show me virtually no respect at all until I save her life or to have her start to show me the amount she does after I save her.
At least that's what I wonder about.
@PretzleMe wrote:
I've played out saving Sloane and I have to say that if I met even a hint of that Sloane beforehand, my decision would have proven more difficult.
Makes me feel like Sloane is forced in someway. Like it was almost their intent to make us not like Sloane. But it seems forced to have her show me virtually no respect at all until I save her life or to have her start to show me the amount she does after I save her.
At least that's what I wonder about.
Who does give us respect Mr. Dangerfield? Remember the Nexus are not starting from the point of sworn enemies.
I think she passes on shooting me in the face when we first meet out of mad respect for the cojones of Nexus coming into her house and asking for something to be done that doesn't benefit her - just Nexus... and then to swipe a gun and point it at them? Either got a death wish or knows something she doesn't... and either way hella loco.
Lol, Dangerfield.
But to answer your question... Most people seem to give us some respect and or not talk down to us. Even on Kadara (even her right hand). This is what made it so noticeable to/for me the individuals that don't. Such as Addison and Sloane.
I'm not saying they don't have their reasons for initially being disrespectful. Some people are just like that and or that is their way of handling not knowing you or and or whether to trust you or not.
But there's ways to handle that while still being civil and without being disrespectful.
