"gentle reframing"
then it is not a 100% remaster.
"Nothing for anyone to be getting worked up about I suspect."
i will not be buying a censured version either they make the remaster the way the original was and put that time into fixing the ending in ME3
Saying it isnt 100% remaster because of some 'gentle reframing' might be a bit of a stretch.
I actually had difficulty finding people talking about this on youtube when i looked for it yesterday after someone else mentioned it was a big deal. Maybe i used the wrong key words, ill try look again today if I get a chance as I'm curious how wide reaching this is.
It seems to me like bioware might have made a mistake specifically mentioning miranda when talking about cutscene camera angles. After seeing your 'not a 100% remaster' thing i went to youtube and looked up comparisons of two other remasters I have played, gears of war ultimate edition and halo 2.
Here are the links in case you want to check them.
I know they are not mass effect, but im using them for a point. In both of those remasters I can see changes to camera angles as well as to the timing of the scenes and for the most part they do look better. I like and dislike different parts of the remastered ones but after seeing those I'm even more on the fence about bioware's changes to mass effect cutscenes.
Until I play the remaster and see the changes for myself I won't be able to say "all changes are bad" anymore because I did like the changes to other remasters. There is a good chance that I will like most of the mass effect tweaks and it will outweigh one or two negative changes they make (in my eyes at least).
"Saying it isnt 100% remaster because of some 'gentle reframing' might be a bit of a stretch"
Totally depends on how they do it, if they go as far as cutting her out of the cutscene alltogheter which they would be stupid to do then it would be a different game would it not? a true 100% remaster tries to stay as close to original games with its strenghts and flaws if a remaster removes all flaws its also not the same game since some of the flaws is part of the charm some like it some dont not everyone likes the samething
"I know they are not mass effect, but im using them for a point. In both of those remasters I can see changes to camera angles as well as to the timing of the scenes and for the most part they do look better. I like and dislike different parts of the remastered ones but after seeing those I'm even more on the fence about bioware's changes to mass effect cutscenes."
yes all of these things COULD be a good thing but in my opinion this is a very minor issue compared to some other things like actual gameplay fixes, AI, buggs that existed for god knows how long, ME3 ending etc etc Look at WC3 reforged that was a good remaster right? thats what EA could do with every future "Remaster" unless people fight back lazy cash grabs with no money spent to actually upgrade the game new textures and camera angles is not enough almost no one liked ME3 ending this would be a perfect time to fix that but nope this is what they "fix"
what i am afraid of is allowing the (in lack of better words) Desexualising Miranda who was portrayed to be perfect in every regard if we as consumers allow this now it will impact how Bioware and every other company under EA will handle things in future games look how it went with lootboxes as example started with a few cosmetics to some power ups then well you know where it ended. so if we allow this minor change now next time they most likely will do an even bigger change imagine Morrigan with no cleavage as an example.
also we need to fight back to changes without reason to me this is a whole lot more then just her butt if they had good face animations i would be more then happy to have Witcher / cyberpunk / (insert most RPG games here) style of conversations with her face but those facial animations suck or at least did in original games if they have a good reason to change it fine but this is not a good reason.
just remember EA has a good reputation to start a snowball effect they start with a minor thing then it escalated just like with Lootboxes i would be very afraid what this "minor" change could mean for the future
"but in my opinion this is a very minor issue compared to some other things like actual gameplay fixes, AI, buggs that existed for god knows how long"
This is the only part i want to address here. Agreed that there are faaaaar more important things to touch up. Sounds like they are doing a lot for the gameplay, i hope the bugs are being ironed out and the AI, god they are silly. I would like a improved ai so it fights smarter and uses abilities better. Both allies and enemy. Each difficulty just making enemies have more shields and more damage was kind of easy once you got the hang of it. if they added a new difficulty where the ai was actually smarter that could be a real challenge.
The only game I know that did this though is age of empires, they improved the ai across all difficulties so it plays more like a human and is not as easy to abuse for easy wins, then they added extreme difficulty on top that is like, ridiculously challenging.
I know they won't go that far but just imagining it is fun :')
About people saying they cannot find anything about this on YouTube. I hear YouTube works like an echo chamber so depending on your viewing habits things may or may not appear.
So from my account I've seen so far 6 people with big audiences cover this topic saying that it's wrong for bioware to go around censoring various bits and then tons of comments of people saying they won't be interested in the game because of this. Two of which were ladies who said they were perfectly fine with how ME trilogy was (butts & all). From what I gather it seems like there IS an awful lot of outcry against these kinds of changes. Also to remind everyone it's not just about the butt and being butt hurt etc, there are more changes than this and we don't know where the line is drawn. Please bioware don't take a beloved series and cut off various bits because of "Reasons". Enchantments (sorry that was supposed to be enhancements) and additions are always welcome.
And yes I am totally butt hurt over this whole matter 😉
From what I've seen of the improved clips, it's like an adult going back to a teenage project and freshening it up a little, while softening a small number of the more embarrassing decisions.
The best way to judge the project is by playing it again as a whole (which i'll be doing)
Much of the 'concern' I've seen seems to be pretty thin.
Inb4 concerns that 42 seconds of elevator travel has been 'censored'. 😉
The elevators were my favourite bit :') could go cook breakfast, pour a cup of tea and go to the gents while the elevator was moving because future buildings are super tall of course!! But no i loved the crew interactions in the elevators. One of the reasons I loved andromeda was because those conversations between squadmates moved into the world.
and @Sky2k5 that makes sense xD I normally avoid those conspiracy theory videos so i guess ill have to search harder to break into the censorship echo :O
"@Sofa@SofaJockeyUK wrote:From what I've seen of the improved clips, it's like an adult going back to a teenage project and freshening it up a little, while softening a small number of the more embarrassing decisions.
The best way to judge the project is by playing it again as a whole (which i'll be doing)
Much of the 'concern' I've seen seems to be pretty thin."
HA i learned how to quote /flex
Anyway how can the "concern" be thin like i said b4 EA starts with something minor like this and voila ME4 or 5 no romance no "steamy scenes" it could happen this is a slippery slope if we allow it now no one know where it will end which i said already oh so many times no one was really concerned about lootboxes in the beginning either or DLC's and what happened there?
i remember when you got whole "new" games as an expansion WC3 frozen throne etc now you get tiny chunks that you end up paying more for then 2 -3 expansions Sims is a perfect example of this game on sale 9.99 but here is 200 worth of DLC at full price!
like i also said i dont care about her butt yes it was a good butt, but thats not why i love Mass effect i am simply afraid where EA will take this in the future
@Naala wrote:
...like i also said i dont care about her butt yes it was a good butt, but thats not why i love Mass effect i am simply afraid where EA will take this in the future
To be fair that seems such a vague concern that it's almost meaningless.
I see no sign of editorial decisions being made at a publisher corporate level, nor attempts to 'cater' to anyone. What I do see is a development team at BioWare trying to do what makes sense to them. Anyone who has played BioWare games over many many years knows their style and their passion for inclusivity and that's not going to change, nor would I want it to.
2020 taught us that any game studio from those with awful to wonderful reputations can mess up and pull a winner out of the bag.
Maybe MELE's update will suck, maybe it'll be awesome. I hope the latter.
Proof is in the pudding. Let's judge on the game itself not on a well travelled news quote. 😉
@SofaJockeyUK wrote:
To be fair that seems such a vague concern that it's almost meaningless.
I see no sign of editorial decisions being made at a publisher corporate level, nor attempts to 'cater' to anyone. What I do see is a development team at BioWare trying to do what makes sense to them. Anyone who has played BioWare games over many many years knows their style and their passion for inclusivity and that's not going to change, nor would I want it to.
Issue is we don't know that look what EA did with Dead Space 3 Bioware might want to make the game in one way but ultimately it is up to EA they got the final decision.
"Anyone who has played BioWare games over many many years knows their style and their passion for inclusivity and that's not going to change"
ive played them since Baldurs gate and i still play them not to mention Kotor, SWtor etc etc that don't mean they will change we all said the same about blizzard that went to hell xD
no one can know what the future brings but i do not trust EA and neither should anyone after all the bad decisions they done in the past
@Naala wrote:no one can know what the future brings but i do not trust EA and neither should anyone after all the bad decisions they done in the past
You're welcome to hold that opinion, but then why have a discussion about it? You don't trust them and that's the end of it.
Personally I find the notion that any company that has made mistakes in the past is incapable of making good games in the future to be groundless pessimism I can't embrace.
Two recent Star Wars games would be good examples: Both Fallen Order and Squadrons had great success. Squadrons was partly built by the team that made Mass Effect.
@SofaJockeyUK wrote:You're welcome to hold that opinion, but then why have a discussion about it? You don't trust them and that's the end of it.
Personally I find the notion that any company that has made mistakes in the past is incapable of making good games in the future to be groundless pessimism I can't embrace.
Two recent Star Wars games would be good examples: Both Fallen Order and Squadrons had great success. Squadrons was partly built by the team that made Mass Effect.
wow 2 games they got more bad games then good games lately Battlefront II, Anthem, 2 bad vs 2 good and that is only mentioning 2 xD and what about Visceral Games westwood studios not to mention Origin ? and all the other companies they bought up and killed off? they effectively killed the Dead Space franchise by not letting them do the game they wanted
sure they can always improve and get better but that will require a LOT of work they got so many good IP's now that is just sitting there collecting dust
https://heavy.com/games/2017/10/studios-ea-has-killed-visceral-games/
They own all of that but dont do anything with it
True i liked Fallen Order but it was not as good as it could been i trust Bioware but as long as they are under EA there is no telling what could happen with them they are basically hanging by a thread ready to be killed off like all those other companies and Sadly EA has a LOT of of power to affect how Bioware makes the games and force that to happen if Bioware refuse EA might cut the funding and Bioware are fecked.
@Naala wrote:
Sadly EA has a LOT of of power to affect how Bioware makes the games and force that to happen if Bioware refuse EA might cut the funding and Bioware are fecked.
I do wonder where you get your assumptions from.
EA = BioWare.
BioWare = EA.
BioWare is an operating division not a team of galley slaves.
The development teams under their own creative leadership make the games as part of EA.
If a game is good or not so good, that's on the team that made it, not some shadowy corporate puppet play. 🤔
@SofaJockeyUK wrote:
I do wonder where you get your assumptions from.
EA = BioWare.
BioWare = EA.
BioWare is an operating division not a team of galley slaves.
The development teams under their own creative leadership make the games as part of EA.
If a game is good or not so good, that's on the team that made it, not some shadowy corporate puppet play.
All of this is is naive thoughts the one with the money is the one in charge if Bioware has all the money they need to make the game and require 0 investors then they are fully in charge but if Bioware require funding from EA then EA has power to made demands
"If a game is good or not so good, that's on the team that made it, not some shadowy corporate puppet play."
this depends on many things look how it went with Troika games they had a good game to be released and needed more time to polish it up they didnt get it was forced to release and it flopped now after a decade of community bug fixes that game is a classic
this is one example out of many im not going to go into details.
@budzai wrote:BW isn't going the way Blizzard went, because they are there for more than a decade now.
their last good game was DA:O. After that they pumped out total mediocre and bad games.
this is just you're opinion i actually liked all of the dragon age games including 2 and inquisition i even liked Andromeda even tho it was not nearly as good as the older games this is true but i wouldn't call them mediocre
@budzaibut you should only speak for you're self and shouldn't put words in other people's mouths even if you have statistics to back it up ;D
again like i said i did enjoy them even tho they were not as good as the older games but it is funny when you think about it that Bioware was bought in 2008 and last good / decent games they made was around that time + - 2 years and the more time went the worse they became.
Coincident? i vote no
There is no denying that early 2000 was the golden era of Bioware tho
Even tho this is interesting talk it is getting off topic so im dropping this here 🙂
@Naala wrote:
@SofaJockeyUK wrote:
I do wonder where you get your assumptions from.EA = BioWare.
BioWare = EA.
BioWare is an operating division not a team of galley slaves.
The development teams under their own creative leadership make the games as part of EA.
If a game is good or not so good, that's on the team that made it, not some shadowy corporate puppet play.
All of this is is naive thoughts the one with the money is the one in charge if Bioware has all the money they need to make the game and require 0 investors then they are fully in charge but if Bioware require funding from EA then EA has power to made demands
"If a game is good or not so good, that's on the team that made it, not some shadowy corporate puppet play."
this depends on many things look how it went with Troika games they had a good game to be released and needed more time to polish it up they didnt get it was forced to release and it flopped now after a decade of community bug fixes that game is a classic
this is one example out of many im not going to go into details.
Bioware isn't an independent company looking around for money to make games, or someone to publish them, but instead Bioware is 100% OWNED by EA. EA as a company has sub-companies they own that make games for them....so EA tells Bioware you have XXX amount of money and time to make a game, get with it. What Bioware does with that money, is on Bioware and the crew there. So, don't think in anyway that Bioware is independent of EA or doesn't need EA.....Bioware is EA and EA is Bioware.
@mcsupersporti never said they are independent i said he who holds the money is in charge which would be EA unless Bioware has their own money you even said the same thing the part about investors are still true but not in this situation
Also its good to see you don't read all my posts i know they were bought i said that in my last post which you chose to ignore ;D
@Sky2k5Same didnt want a long discussion about it either its just sad that so many dont seem to get how corporate's work EA's only intention is to make money that is what corporate's do. IF Bioware and most other game devs would make a choice that would risk loosing money say a racist game then the investors and or owners (in this case EA) can go in and pull the plug on those decisions and remove it in this case Mirand's * could be seen as sexism there fore someone voted to remove it wheter it was EA or Bioware i dont know and dont really care it is censurship and that should not be accepted.
But making games these days is a risky business, i do miss old school games when they could do damn near anything they wanted.
i really do hope bioware stand up for them self IF this censure decision comes from EA which it very well could but if the decision came from Bioware then like i said previously it dont look good for future bioware games
@GrimReaperTaken
They should definitely turn off twitter the fans are here on this forum this is the criticism they should listen to.
Ignoring the criticism is a huge no but it depends on what criticism they listen to i read that feminists wants to ban valentines day and other BS like high heels being sexist and other things like that there will always be people complaining about things that 1: dont make sense and 2: dont really matter. and from all i gather there is a ton of more people who want the original cutscenes over the people who don't want them. so fans have spoken its up to them if they listen.
i mean if you really look anyone can find an issue with anything Christmas is sexist since santa is a male working while miss santa is home cooking and cleaning etc does it matter? no its a myth a legend this is a game a virtual thing and Miranda is just eye candy in the game, Jacob been said to be miranda's Male counter part and he is shirtless in one scene will that be censured? i bet not.
"do you reckon it would work if bioware just changed whatever they thought was best in ME"
They shouldn't change a thing except updating the game and fixing bugs as stated before there are a TON of issues with the games specially ME1 being very outdated in terms of well almost everything
the AI is basically crap yes they would need to work hard on updating the AI to modern standards but thats what a remaster should do get the gameplay and textures updated the games were almost perfect in terms of story etc higher difficulty didnt mean harder just that t he Enemy toke more hits imagine if they would actually use tactics oooof amazing
and that they didnt even put any work into pinnacle station is just lazy if they had worked on the important things those 6 months or what ever it would take to make Pinnacle station work wouldnt been a huge deal
they said that ME1 is improved to be closer to ME2 but issue is ME2 is already also dated as hell in terms of textures and gameplay hell even ME3 is dated in almost all aspects specially animations but they said they basically didnt touch animations so i wonder what the hell they actually worked on.
Unfortunately EA wil alwaysl listen to Twitter feminism activist instead of us, real fans and players. They're too scared of backlash from Twitter.
Bioware said “I do think a lot of things have evolved since [the original games],” meaning rise of feminism, MeToo and scandals in Hollywood
EA, do you will still continue ignoring real fans and YouTube?
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