Title says it all.Some of the new premade builds coming out are just too good. Jean Spectre Sniper anyone? What a joke. They are slowly making this a pay to win in WOC but are doing it very sneakily. Well maybe not so sneakily if you have half a brain.I've been playing World of Chel since NHL '09 and if this continues, I can no longer grudgingly buy the game year after year. It's gone too far now.The broken match making. Broken defense. Broken forward skating. Broken menues. Meaningless updates. Fortnite style garbage. The list goes on and on. This franchise is a complete joke and desperately needs new direction and leadership. Unfortunately it won't happen.

Interestingly enough Cambridge defined the term "P2W"https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/pay-to-winGoogle a.i. defines it as...Pay-to-win" (P2W) describes video games where players spend real money to gain significant gameplay advantages, like stronger items or faster progression, over non-spending players, creating an imbalance where wealth translates directly to power, often in otherwise free-to-play (F2P) games, though what constitutes a P2W advantage is debated, ranging from buying powerful gear to saving massive amounts of time. Key characteristicsReal money for power: Players buy virtual goods, currency, or boosts with real cash to get better stats, exclusive content, or faster advancement.F2P model: Often found in free-to-play games where the core game is accessible, but success is heavily influenced by purchases.Unfair advantage: Creates a situation where spending money offers a clear edge over skill or time investment, making it harder for non-paying players to compete.Spectrum of P2W: Games can be slightly P2W (convenience) or heavily P2W (exclusive, overpowered items), with debate often focusing on when paying crosses the line from convenience to true "winning". Examples of P2W elementsExclusive powerful gear: Buying weapons or armor with stats better than anything obtainable through normal gameplay.Time-saving boosts: Purchasing experience boosts, faster mounts, or instant unlocks to bypass grinding.Loot boxes/Gacha: Paying for randomized chances at powerful items, though skill and luck still play a role. Why it's controversialUndermines skill: Devalues player skill by allowing wealth to replace mastery.Financial burden: Can pressure players, especially teens, to spend beyond their means.Design incentives: Developers are incentivized to design the game to make paying feel necessary, potentially making the base experience worse. Notice that neither of these took the term literally. It doesn't mean free wins.. it doesn't mean you CAN'T lose. It's paying for an advantage. P2W simply doesn't exist in ANY game if you define it the way you did.. you've given a disingenuous definition, or your idea of the term is just different from what Cambridge decided it should be. Again, totally fine if EA wants to call it something else or ban talking about it on the forums but to take the expression literally and snake your way around it to argue it isn't p2w is a bad look imo. I get everyone thinks differently and I'll keep an open mind that you may just see the term differently than I do and maybe we somehow see this somewhat the same but are using different words for what we're seeing. Maybe you see this as not a big deal, maybe it isn't.. but where does it stop? How good are these builds gonna be in a few months? Maybe at no point do you think the game can ever be P2W but can this ever become a problem? Is a build with all 99s and 6'9 270lbs at least worth a discussion? Would that even enter the realm of P2W?

Buddy.. I dont have time to give any more lessons on stawmen, you seem quite confused.. I taught you what it was in our last discussion after having had to show a hockey 101 video on how to properly defend a 2v1 because you were so confident you were right, and you had to attack me. I can't tell if you are this lost or just trying not to understand so you can't be wrong. Either way this is getting sad.That isn’t a strawman. I’m not misrepresenting your position and then arguing against it.You did. "Anyone who has played high level EASHL/WoC understands that outcomes are driven far more by gap control, defensive positioning, puck protection, timing, and reads than by what premade template a skater selected. This isn’t a claim that all confident players think the same, it’s a reflection of how experienced players actually evaluate games."That doesn't negate the P2W statement I made. Please read the definition I have given, thanks!"Saying premade builds are “better” only matters if they actually decide games, and in World of Chel they don’t."They can. They don't always.. but they have and they will. The build can do things other builds simply can't. It can be the difference in a game. If someone plays with an all-star team in vs and the opponent is an AHL team the guy with the all star team will have a better chance to win, and his players being better can decide that game."What premades really do is raise the floor by offering convenient, forgiving setups, not raise the ceiling or override fundamentals. That makes them a convenience advantage, not a pay-to-win one. "The mental gymnastics on display here.. If I'm able to skate fast AND have a better shot I can raise the ceiling of what I'm able to do. This is not even an argument.. I can't believe this needs to be said. I would argue both the floor AND ceiling are raised but the ceiling is raised more.. a bad player CAN make use of more speed given that they're out of position more often so this raises the floor (with boosts to other attributes to shooting and hitting it will also raise their ceiling a bit, as even poor shots will go in a little more often) however, a skilled player can take full advantage of the added attributes. This raises their ceiling, and probably doesn't change their floor much at all as they're always gonna be effective."Again... that’s not a strawman. I didn’t replace your P2W claim with “stick skills”Please read your other quote just below, thanks! "Those of us with good stick skills will continue to be unphased by premade builds. "Are you admitting it is P2W and that's why it's not a strawman? If not, then it is... if stick skills negates the p2w premise by your logic it creates a strawman based on the definition given for p2w. "I just disagree that they make WoC “pay to win”Based on the Cambridge definition please tell me how you've come to that conclusion. It does not mean you get auto wins.. it gives an advantage. You've admitted it gives an advantage in a post before.. this IS p2w even if it's not a free win. I'm not sure where the disconnect is.Please put your argument for why this isn't P2W in premise format given the definitions I have supplied.

Ahh the ol "skill issue" just dressed up, great premise!! 👍 so you can't routinely beat elite teams whom are using these builds.. but you do often enough.. so it's not P2W.. yet?By your definition, no game is P2W. Can you give me an example of a game you CAN'T win without paying? One in which "skill" could not EVER prevail? Do you believe a P2W game exists? Personally I'd say P2W is just giving a player a sizable enough advantage to win, perhaps this is the disconnect and reason we're talking past one another. I'd argue any ultimate team mode is P2W.. sure a really good player with a bad team can beat a bad player with a good team, but a credit card is likely gonna bag you some wins, to believe it won't is just dishonest imo. Jean doesn't get auto wins.. but just like any other game that most communities feel are P2W they get a large enough advantage. Jean is certainly beatable, I've shut them down, but it's absolutely an advantage to have him. All his crazy stats and 90 hitting?? Now that I see this McDavid build I'm even more grossed out.If we can't agree on what P2W is though I suppose we can shift the topic ever so slightly to it being "unbalanced" or "adventageous to have a credit card" so that EA doesn't get upset we use P2W. Jean and McDavid give an unbalanced advantage.

Thank you to those with a brain responding in here. I specifically loved this post:"It's always interesting that you and Kid experience things that nobody else is experiencing and it trumps anyone else's experience"I couldn't have put it better myself, well done.

EA_Aljo I’ve seen you make this argument that an organized team can beat prebuilds so they aren’t over powered and I can no longer let it slide. This argument is so flawed it amazes me. Take that same organized team and give them all prebuilds which are better than customs…now they are even harder to beat. The builds are stronger than we can make with custom, plain and simple. There is no argument that paying for these builds is not an advantage. Your attempt to spin this is logically flawed. No need for a video if you can do simple addition. Many of the builds have xfactor combinations that are not obtainable by a custom build. They literally have a higher AP cap than customs. They also have height and weight with skating combinations that aren’t possible with a custom build.They are mathematically overpowered. Don’t really see how that can be argued against.

Slowly becoming pay to win | EA Forums

83 Replies

EA_Aljo
Community Manager
17 days ago

Are you kidding me!? Your straight up lying. These builds have only ever been for purchase. Turkey dangler, orca, panther, Jean specter. They have never been in the battle pass ever. How can you say that!? Check your facts. You don’t even know why people are angry!

I'm looking in to this. I thought they were available to be earned. If I'm wrong, that's not a lie. It's a mistake and one I'll gladly own up to.

People are angry because these builds cannot be made and have to be earned through the season pass or purchased. I know why there's anger over them.

Edit: I confirmed I was wrong. Apologies for the mistake. The character loadouts have only been available for purchase. The NHL loadouts are available for free with the season pass or you can purchase tier skips to get them sooner.
Victavius7
New Hotshot
17 days ago
Are you kidding me!? Your straight up lying. These builds have only ever been for purchase. Turkey dangler, orca, panther, Jean specter. They have never been in the battle pass ever. How can you say that!? Check your facts. You don’t even know why people are angry!
KidShowtime1867
Hero
17 days ago
Modulater83 wrote:
its really been a semantics argument all along
Agreed and I did nothing to help guide us away from that yesterday. My apologies.
Modulater83 wrote:
Once you cross the line into paying for any type of gameplay enhancement, even if its just to reduce grinding time, you are now in P2W territory
I'm inclined to agree but like you said - maybe it needs a better label than 'pay to win'.
Modulater83 wrote:
I really don't like the idea of not every build working under the same constraints. It breaks part of what I enjoyed about EASHL.
I agree 100%. I am not a fan of the premades at all, but I've always disagreed they are pay to win. However, I can see the points made in this thread and how it can be interpreted as such.
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
17 days ago

This is a lie. How can you tell such a blatant lie? Jean spectre for example. Not obtainable without purchasing, this is what I have a problem with. Sure, there are a couple new builds in the battle pass this season, which i have no problem with. If people want them, then go get them. The problem is when you place builds behind a pay wall. For example jean spectre. This is the problem. Its not ok. Listen to the fan base before its too late…

I already clarified my statement here in case there was confusion. Here it is again:

There is no lie here. Every build has been earnable through the season pass. When that season pass ends, those builds can be purchased if you didn't complete the pass while it was active.
Modulater83
New Hotshot
17 days ago
I think we've gotten there, but its really been a semantics argument all along. I think everyone actually agrees on the basic premise that some of the pre-made builds confer an advantage that custom builds cannot match. Personally I fall into P2W being a binary designation. Are the items you can purchase strictly for aesthetic effect and offer no change to actual gameplay? Many games stop there with their microtransactions to self-police. Once you cross the line into paying for any type of gameplay enhancement, even if its just to reduce grinding time, you are now in P2W territory. Maybe it needs a better label, as the enhancements exist on a spectrum of slight advantage to completely unfair, but money still can now provide a leg up and for me that's P2W.
I think its a bad look, and a bad element for EA to introduce at all for EASHL as it moves the mode away from the concept of a competitive league. Besides my distaste for the wacky garbage of lining up for a faceoff across from an alien, or a kraken, or whatnot, I really don't like the idea of not every build working under the same constraints. It breaks part of what I enjoyed about EASHL.
Victavius7
New Hotshot
17 days ago

EA_Aljo wrote:
There is no lie here. Every build has been earnable through the season pass. When that season pass ends, those builds can be purchased if you didn't complete the pass while it was active.
Your lying. Prove it. Show me the build in the season pass. Show me the current panther character build? Show me jean spectre ? You cant because its not possible. I await your response proving my point.…
KidShowtime1867
Hero
17 days ago
The disagreement here isn’t really about whether premade builds are stronger. Most people actually agree that some of them are. The real argument is about definitions of pay to win.
Premade builds do not guarantee wins. Skill, positioning, reads, stamina management, and team play still decide most games. Good players and organized teams can and do beat teams using premades. That part isn’t in dispute.
Where concern is valid is that some premade builds offer stat distributions, AP efficiency, and X-Factor combinations that cannot be replicated with custom builds, and in some cases are locked behind payment or expired seasons. That means paying can provide a real advantage, especially when teams are evenly matched. I get that.
So this isn’t “hard” pay-to-win where you must pay to compete, but it does fit what many people mean by soft or advantage-based P2W: paying doesn’t buy wins, but it can shift outcomes more often when skill levels are close.
I think the issue is about competitive integrity.
If paid builds continue to outpace what customs can achieve, customization loses meaning and meta pressure increases. That’s the slippery slope people are worried about, and it’s a fair concern even if you don’t believe the game is fully p2w right now.
I think skill still matters most, but paid advantages are real and I do concede that EA needs to be careful where this goes.
EA_Aljo
Community Manager
17 days ago

That’s a blatant lie! Sure there are a couple new builds that EA made and added to season pass like McDavid. In this instance I agree that everyone can earn it and you can pay to acquire it early. I have no qualms about this. However there are MANY builds that are ONLY available for purchase. Jean spectre for example. There is no possible way to obtain this other than paying for it. This is where the problem lies and the solution is to make them all available on the season pass. By not doing this it is a big disadvantage for everyone who does not pay for them. This is pay 2 win and this will harm the game long term, I have said it before. EA ignoring the fan base once again and trying to make a buck.

There is no lie here. Every build has been earnable through the season pass. When that season pass ends, those builds can be purchased if you didn't complete the pass while it was active.
Victavius7
New Hotshot
17 days ago
EA_Aljo wrote:
You can also earn them for free by playing through the season pass.
This is a lie. How can you tell such a blatant lie? Jean spectre for example. Not obtainable without purchasing, this is what I have a problem with. Sure, there are a couple new builds in the battle pass this season, which i have no problem with. If people want them, then go get them. The problem is when you place builds behind a pay wall. For example jean spectre. This is the problem. Its not ok. Listen to the fan base before its too late…
Star Wars Battlefront II (2017)
The Issue: At launch, the game featured heavy P2W mechanics where players could purchase loot crates to unlock star cards that provided significant gameplay advantages, including better damage and faster cooldowns. This led to massive backlash, with the game's subreddit and general internet discourse labeling it one of the most egregious examples of P2W in a AAA title.
The Reversal: Following immense pressure, EA and DICE disabled all microtransactions shortly before launch. They later completely overhauled the progression system, removing paid loot crates entirely and making all star cards earnable only through gameplay.
Victavius7
New Hotshot
17 days ago
KidShowtime1867 wrote:
Loadouts can be acquired by completing the season pass. You can make a purchase to avoid having to grind them out. That's not pay to win. That's 'pay to skip the grind'.
That’s a blatant lie! Sure there are a couple new builds that EA made and added to season pass like McDavid. In this instance I agree that everyone can earn it and you can pay to acquire it early. I have no qualms about this. However there are MANY builds that are ONLY available for purchase. Jean spectre for example. There is no possible way to obtain this other than paying for it. This is where the problem lies and the solution is to make them all available on the season pass. By not doing this it is a big disadvantage for everyone who does not pay for them. This is pay 2 win and this will harm the game long term, I have said it before. EA ignoring the fan base once again and trying to make a buck.