So we are halfway through phase 3 and 15 people have not scored a point. We do tier 4. What do yall do to keep people going without having to kick out half of your guild? I know Nihilus is annoying but posting a zero for that long hurts everyone. GMY should help a lot of folks that dont have JTR.Any suggestions? Obviously we are pretty laid back but that is a but to far. 82M Guild.

We are in the same boat as you VonZant. Apparently CG is worried about making changes to help a dozen people who no longer spend money because they have been given everhthing to stay on top. There is very little incentive to continue on. Im going to shake things up soon and see if they want to do a tier 6 to unlock heroic. Failing a heroic might motivate people to get better

"VonZant;d-173985" wrote:So we are halfway through phase 3 and 15 people have not scored a point. We do tier 4. What do yall do to keep people going without having to kick out half of your guild? I know Nihilus is annoying but posting a zero for that long hurts everyone. GMY should help a lot of folks that dont have JTR.Any suggestions? Obviously we are pretty laid back but that is a but to far. 82M Guild.Good question, no easy answer. Booting them is no longer a threat. There are so many farm guilds, they will be back in business in minutes. I'm facing this as leader of our guild. We have half of our guild joining raids, tw, tb etc.. but a portion of those NOT joining, contribute daily req'd tickets. This leaves some not able to play daily, and me not wanting to be the big bad wolf. (Be a Leader they said, it'll be fun they said... ugh).

"Waqui;c-1587188" wrote:"VonZant;c-1586872" wrote:Yeah we have the teams to beat it easily. Just cant get the people motivated to actually fight Nihilus. Ok, so we agree that the problems is not Nihilus' health pool. Great! :—)No. That is exactly the problem. His health pool is so massive and his mechanic is so annoying that spending 10-20 teams on him each person each raid just wears people out and they just dont fight him. Top 5 of us post 10-25M damage each. Most others just half-ass it or dont post at all.

"Waqui;c-1587507" wrote:"VonZant;c-1587204" wrote:"Waqui;c-1587188" wrote:"VonZant;c-1586872" wrote:Yeah we have the teams to beat it easily. Just cant get the people motivated to actually fight Nihilus. Ok, so we agree that the problems is not Nihilus' health pool. Great! :—)No. That is exactly the problem. His health pool is so massive and his mechanic is so annoying that spending 10-20 teams on him each person each raid just wears people out and they just dont fight him. Top 5 of us post 10-25M damage each. Most others just half-**** it or dont post at all.Here I thought we just agreed, that there are teams, that work well against his mehanics. I even thought you claimed that you have those teams in your guild. If that's really the case, Nihilus' health pool is not a problem.Something is a bit off either with your claims or your conclusion.Here. There is one dollar within your reach. You can reach it easily. You just have to lean far enough forward 15 times so this needle goes under your fingernail slightly each time and you will hear a one second clip of "The hamster dance song" each time. Then you can have the dollar. Just because you CAN do something does not mean that it is enjoyable to do so.Its not an issue of CAN. Its not an issue of Hard. Its not an issue of Annyoning. It is not an issue of Time Consuming.It is an issue of Hard and Annoying and Time Consuming all together so the prize does not justify the reach for many people. Yes, we could kick them all out, but that is a bad thing to encourage.

Of couse it is an unbalanced guild. We are casual. We are not a heroic guild and dont plan on being anytime soon. The question is: Why do people choose not participate in the raid? They do TW. They do TB. They do Tank (even when we were not doing heroic). They do Rancor.The answer is the 2 Nihilus phases are unbridled pain and not fun. I love challenging content. I like hard content. I put up my 10-20M per raid and so do others. The point is that it is difficult annoying and too protracted. They should at least fix the protracted part.Im guessing if they showed us their secret data on all phases on all raids the participation level in P1 of sith is far worse - not by a little but by a lot - than any other raid phase. Also the amount of times the "auto" button is hit during that phase is going to be high - even for people that do participate. Again "break up your guild" solution is not just bad design, its bad for business.

15 Zeros. | EA Forums

DVZR
7 years ago
Yeah we have the teams to beat it easily. Just cant get the people motivated to actually fight Nihilus.
Waquira
7 years ago
"VonZant;c-1586872" wrote:
Yeah we have the teams to beat it easily. Just cant get the people motivated to actually fight Nihilus.

Ok, so we agree that the problems is not Nihilus' health pool. Great! :—)
naraiceylob
7 years ago
"VonZant;d-173985" wrote:
So we are halfway through phase 3 and 15 people have not scored a point. We do tier 4. What do yall do to keep people going without having to kick out half of your guild? I know Nihilus is annoying but posting a zero for that long hurts everyone. GMY should help a lot of folks that dont have JTR.

Any suggestions? Obviously we are pretty laid back but that is a but to far. 82M Guild.

Merge with another guild, move the slackers and the weak from both guilds into a b guild (which can still farm haat) and focus on the a guild.

Depending on the guild you merge with you may be able to think about hsr after merger.
Agrivyre
7 years ago
"VonZant;c-1586674" wrote:
Yeah, dont want to kick people.

You have no choice. If you don’t kick people from the bottom those at the top will leave for greener pastures. So that’s your decision. Lose them from the top, or the bottom.
Waquira
7 years ago
"VonZant;c-1587204" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1587188" wrote:
"VonZant;c-1586872" wrote:
Yeah we have the teams to beat it easily. Just cant get the people motivated to actually fight Nihilus.

Ok, so we agree that the problems is not Nihilus' health pool. Great! :—)

No. That is exactly the problem. His health pool is so massive and his mechanic is so annoying that spending 10-20 teams on him each person each raid just wears people out and they just dont fight him. Top 5 of us post 10-25M damage each. Most others just half-**** it or dont post at all.

Here I thought we just agreed, that there are teams, that work well against his mehanics. I even thought you claimed that you have those teams in your guild. If that's really the case, Nihilus' health pool is not a problem.

Something is a bit off either with your claims or your conclusion.
naraiceylob
7 years ago
The problem is that people are lazy.

If a 1 million gp player can do 2% with 5 runs on tier 5 with the wrong squads no one has an excuse.

15 zeros is why the guild struggles not because the raid is tough.
DarkHelmet1138
7 years ago
"VonZant;d-173985" wrote:
So we are halfway through phase 3 and 15 people have not scored a point. We do tier 4. What do yall do to keep people going without having to kick out half of your guild? I know Nihilus is annoying but posting a zero for that long hurts everyone. GMY should help a lot of folks that dont have JTR.

Any suggestions? Obviously we are pretty laid back but that is a but to far. 82M Guild.

You really have two options. Either set a min dmg req and boot those that don't follow or leave for a guild that does. Otherwise you'll be in the same boat forever. I was in a guild with your problem and tried to convince leadership to make rules and enforce them. But they didn't so I finally left and found a guild that does. I know at least one other top contributor has done the same. So either lose the dead weight at the bottom or find a new guild. My guild currently has a couple of open spots for players that actually want to work toward heroic. We do t5 in about 4 days currently and just added a min 2mil dmg req to the raid to encourage participation. The penalty is if you're below you have to sit out the next haat and hpit. We had several only posting a few hundred thousand thousand prior to that and as of now half way through p4 we only have a few that are below 2 mil and none under a mil.
DuneSeaFarmer
7 years ago
Here is another related problem. As I understand it, if they are under the age of 13, or do not speak english, enforcing rules is almost impossible. Under 13, they do NOT see the chat. And if the do not speak english or w/e language is relevant, wht then? To bad so sad? Hardly fair.
DarkHelmet1138
7 years ago
"DuneSeaFarmer;c-1588000" wrote:
Here is another related problem. As I understand it, if they are under the age of 13, or do not speak english, enforcing rules is almost impossible. Under 13, they do NOT see the chat. And if the do not speak english or w/e language is relevant, wht then? To bad so sad? Hardly fair.

You answered your own question. If they don't respond to the chat then you have little choice but to boot them. There are guilds that don't give a crap that can take them in. If you don't boot those that break the rules and don't fix themselves eventually you get in the situation the op is in where half the guild doesn't participate. Chat is a good feature to communicate expectations if a player ignores that then not much you can do but boot them. And non-english speakers can either use a translation software to stay in the know and follow rules or try and join a guild that has members that speak the same language but guild leaders can't keep people who ignore the chat just because they might not speak English.
Waquira
7 years ago
"VonZant;c-1587964" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1587507" wrote:
"VonZant;c-1587204" wrote:
"Waqui;c-1587188" wrote:
"VonZant;c-1586872" wrote:
Yeah we have the teams to beat it easily. Just cant get the people motivated to actually fight Nihilus.

Ok, so we agree that the problems is not Nihilus' health pool. Great! :—)

No. That is exactly the problem. His health pool is so massive and his mechanic is so annoying that spending 10-20 teams on him each person each raid just wears people out and they just dont fight him. Top 5 of us post 10-25M damage each. Most others just half-**** it or dont post at all.

Here I thought we just agreed, that there are teams, that work well against his mehanics. I even thought you claimed that you have those teams in your guild. If that's really the case, Nihilus' health pool is not a problem.

Something is a bit off either with your claims or your conclusion.

Here. There is one dollar within your reach. You can reach it easily. You just have to lean far enough forward 15 times so this needle goes under your fingernail slightly each time and you will hear a one second clip of "The hamster dance song" each time. Then you can have the dollar.

Just because you CAN do something does not mean that it is enjoyable to do so.

Its not an issue of CAN. Its not an issue of Hard. Its not an issue of Annyoning. It is not an issue of Time Consuming.

It is an issue of Hard and Annoying and Time Consuming all together so the prize does not justify the reach for many people. Yes, we could kick them all out, but that is a bad thing to encourage.

You don't have to lean far forward 15 times. With the right teams, you can do it once or twice in phase 1 and once in phase 4.1. You claimed to have plenty of those teams in the guild (non—JTR teams that work well against Nihilus). If that's correct then just have your guild members play those 2—3 battles and get it over with. If the battle feels hard and annoying then use the correct team(s), learn how to play the phases with them and then it will be just as enjoyable (or unenjoyable) as the remaining phases. The problem is not 'hard and annoying' unless you refuse to use the correct teams. As you said yourself you have plenty of those teams. However, that statement doesn't quite match your conclusion.

My guess is, thst it's a classic example of an unbalanced guild. Some members push and strive to improve while others are trailing and not contributing. That's not a raid design problem.