I was having a discussion with McMole after he had explained in his video about how the mechanic works. This applies to Geonosians and Malak as far as I know. When the character "equalizes" health/protection currently, the average percentage value is calculated of any characters specified including the character that is equalizing, then the character adjusts their health/protection totals to that calculated percentage.If you're familiar with audio editing, that makes sense. The peaks, clipping, distortion, "noise" of the audio signal is removed. This is specifically to do with signal waves and data transfer and is why when you talk with someone on the phone, they sound slightly off and unclear.Alright, so let's think about this in terms of a physical value or a physical sense. If I want things to be equal, I want them to be the same. I would add/subtract to make sure that the two items being compared are equal after the adjustment is performed. Let's say I had two glasses of water. One full, one halfway. I can either dump some water from the full cup, or I can add water to it from another source. I genuinely think the way that health/protection equalization is currently programmed, it makes the team very brittle, very easy to take down. I think there should be a few rules applied to health equalization to resolve the issue. Once that is resolved, there is an entire separate conversation to be had about the method used to "equalize".Rules:#1: use numerical values, not percentages#2: you cannot include the characters whose health value is changing in the calculation for what the average is. #3 if you are going to equalize a characters health or protection and it results in that character losing health/protection as a result, assume they are the highest values on the team and ignore equalization. (Just because the Ally has lower health, does not mean they should lose health).I understand the reason for using percentages, but it results in so much variation when you compare it to the raw numerical data. losing 1% health on a character that has 20K is far less than the one that just equalized and had 65K. I think the second biggest issue would be rule #3 above. That needs to be implemented.Thoughts, what has your experience been? How do bugs work when compared to Malak/Darth Revan. Is that equalization programmed according to the rules above?

So, if I understand correctly.If Bob has 100 health and Steve has 50, and they equalize, you don’t believe both should be at 75 afterward? You want Bob to remain at 100 and Steve to “equalize” to 100? That’s not equalization, that’s just healing.“Just because the ally has lower health does not mean they should lose health.” Yes, it does. If you have 10 apples and your brother has 4, and your mom tells you to make the apples equal, you lose 3 apples.

So if i have 4 geos with 100k hp and one with 50k at max hp and an enemy uses a non damaging spell then all of them will end with 90k???Thats why it works as %... Because units can have more hp than his max xD

I get what you're saying, but you're overthinking it. They don't want equalization to mean equal numbers of health because that has any number of complications to it. They want equalization to mean equal percentages.It's working as intended.

"nabokovfan;c-1925321" wrote:I ran a check on all abilities to see what characters this affects:⭐ Barriss Offee :: Force Healer (special):➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. (Health equalizing effects ignore Healing Immunity.) Then, each ally recovers 15% of their Max Health and gains Defense Up for 2 turns.⭐ Chirrut Îmwe :: As the Force Wills (special):➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. Dispel all debuffs from all allies and grant them a Heal Over Time effect for 4 turns for each effect dispelled. Allies that were not debuffed gain Tenacity Up for 3 turns.⭐ Darth Revan :: Villain (unique):➡ When Darth Revan uses an ability during their turn, if the selected target is already inflicted with Deathmark, Fear, or Corrupted Battle Meditation, Darth Revan immediately uses Lacerate. \n\nWhen Fear expires on an enemy, they also dispel all buffs on themselves. \n\nWhen Darth Revan's Health falls below 50%, it is equalized with the other healthiest ally.⭐ Geonosian Brood Alpha :: Queen's Will (unique):➡ Geonosian Brood Alpha has +60% Tenacity. All Geonosian allies have the Hive Mind buff while Geonosian Brood Alpha is active, which can't be dispelled or prevented. When another Geonosian ally is defeated, reduce the cooldown of Conscription by 1. At the start of the encounter, summon a Geonosian Brute who Taunts for 1 turn.\n\nHive Mind: Assist whenever another Geonosian ally uses an ability during his turn, dealing 50% less damage; equalize Health and Protection with Hive Mind allies whenever an enemy uses an ability⭐ Hermit Yoda :: Strength Flows From the Force (special):➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. (Health equalizing effects ignore Healing Immunity.) Then, all allies recover 20% Health and Protection and Jedi allies gain Foresight for 2 turns.⭐ L3-37 :: For the Droids (unique):➡ At the start of L3-37's turns, if L3-37 didn't take damage from an enemy since her last turn she becomes Prepared. Whenever another Droid or Scoundrel ally takes damage, L3-37 gains 15% Turn Meter. Whenever L3-37 takes damage from an attack, she dispels debuffs from a random debuffed Scoundrel ally. The first time each other Droid ally is reduced to 1% Health, they equalize Health with L3-37.So we have the two key terms, "health percentages equalize" and "they equalize health", and these are two very different things.Meh. Par for the course with CG. You can't fully trust any ability description and need to check SWGoH.gg for the mechanics. If the mechanics are the same and the words are different then it's probably working the way they want it to.

"nabokovfan;c-1925325" wrote:"jhbuchholz;c-1925324" wrote:"nabokovfan;c-1925321" wrote:I ran a check on all abilities to see what characters this affects:⭐ Barriss Offee :: Force Healer (special):➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. (Health equalizing effects ignore Healing Immunity.) Then, each ally recovers 15% of their Max Health and gains Defense Up for 2 turns.⭐ Chirrut Îmwe :: As the Force Wills (special):➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. Dispel all debuffs from all allies and grant them a Heal Over Time effect for 4 turns for each effect dispelled. Allies that were not debuffed gain Tenacity Up for 3 turns.⭐ Darth Revan :: Villain (unique):➡ When Darth Revan uses an ability during their turn, if the selected target is already inflicted with Deathmark, Fear, or Corrupted Battle Meditation, Darth Revan immediately uses Lacerate. \n\nWhen Fear expires on an enemy, they also dispel all buffs on themselves. \n\nWhen Darth Revan's Health falls below 50%, it is equalized with the other healthiest ally.⭐ Geonosian Brood Alpha :: Queen's Will (unique):➡ Geonosian Brood Alpha has +60% Tenacity. All Geonosian allies have the Hive Mind buff while Geonosian Brood Alpha is active, which can't be dispelled or prevented. When another Geonosian ally is defeated, reduce the cooldown of Conscription by 1. At the start of the encounter, summon a Geonosian Brute who Taunts for 1 turn.\n\nHive Mind: Assist whenever another Geonosian ally uses an ability during his turn, dealing 50% less damage; equalize Health and Protection with Hive Mind allies whenever an enemy uses an ability⭐ Hermit Yoda :: Strength Flows From the Force (special):➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. (Health equalizing effects ignore Healing Immunity.) Then, all allies recover 20% Health and Protection and Jedi allies gain Foresight for 2 turns.⭐ L3-37 :: For the Droids (unique):➡ At the start of L3-37's turns, if L3-37 didn't take damage from an enemy since her last turn she becomes Prepared. Whenever another Droid or Scoundrel ally takes damage, L3-37 gains 15% Turn Meter. Whenever L3-37 takes damage from an attack, she dispels debuffs from a random debuffed Scoundrel ally. The first time each other Droid ally is reduced to 1% Health, they equalize Health with L3-37.So we have the two key terms, "health percentages equalize" and "they equalize health", and these are two very different things.Meh. Par for the course with CG. You can't fully trust any ability description and need to check SWGoH.gg for the mechanics. If the mechanics are the same and the words are different then it's probably working the way they want it to. But when you are talking about the other wording, Percentages equalize, then they have a massive heal or a heal over time added to compensate.I'm not arguing with you. I'm telling you how it is. There are a bunch of ability description that are either confusing or misleading. CG is pretty bad at writing descriptions. The only way to tell what it is supposed to do is to look at the mechanics.

Health Equalization is Designed Incorrectly

Kisakee
6 years ago
"Scuttlebutt;c-1925997" wrote:

That being said, my few battles with and against the geos seem to show that this isn’t as big a problem as you’re making it out to be. Spy, poggle, brood alpha, soldier have lower healths but not a lot lower. Spy is usually hidden by stealth. Brute and sun fac seem to trade taunts. In my experience, it’s hard to focus fire on a weak guy without boba or JKR or someone like that.

That is basically the reason why tanks with taunts exist, to protect the weaker toons. In this scenario it just becomes more important, their biggest strength is their biggest weakness at the same time. This is totally fine and making good use of this knowledge is called tactics and i bet it's absolutely intentional too.
BeeblebroxRocks
6 years ago
"nabokovfan;c-1925321" wrote:
I ran a check on all abilities to see what characters this affects:

⭐ Barriss Offee :: Force Healer (special):
➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. (Health equalizing effects ignore Healing Immunity.) Then, each ally recovers 15% of their Max Health and gains Defense Up for 2 turns.
⭐ Chirrut Îmwe :: As the Force Wills (special):
➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. Dispel all debuffs from all allies and grant them a Heal Over Time effect for 4 turns for each effect dispelled. Allies that were not debuffed gain Tenacity Up for 3 turns.
⭐ Darth Revan :: Villain (unique):
➡ When Darth Revan uses an ability during their turn, if the selected target is already inflicted with Deathmark, Fear, or Corrupted Battle Meditation, Darth Revan immediately uses Lacerate. \n\nWhen Fear expires on an enemy, they also dispel all buffs on themselves. \n\nWhen Darth Revan's Health falls below 50%, it is equalized with the other healthiest ally.
⭐ Geonosian Brood Alpha :: Queen's Will (unique):
➡ Geonosian Brood Alpha has +60% Tenacity. All Geonosian allies have the Hive Mind buff while Geonosian Brood Alpha is active, which can't be dispelled or prevented. When another Geonosian ally is defeated, reduce the cooldown of Conscription by 1. At the start of the encounter, summon a Geonosian Brute who Taunts for 1 turn.\n\nHive Mind: Assist whenever another Geonosian ally uses an ability during his turn, dealing 50% less damage; equalize Health and Protection with Hive Mind allies whenever an enemy uses an ability
⭐ Hermit Yoda :: Strength Flows From the Force (special):
➡ All allies have their current Health percentages equalized. (Health equalizing effects ignore Healing Immunity.) Then, all allies recover 20% Health and Protection and Jedi allies gain Foresight for 2 turns.
⭐ L3-37 :: For the Droids (unique):
➡ At the start of L3-37's turns, if L3-37 didn't take damage from an enemy since her last turn she becomes Prepared. Whenever another Droid or Scoundrel ally takes damage, L3-37 gains 15% Turn Meter. Whenever L3-37 takes damage from an attack, she dispels debuffs from a random debuffed Scoundrel ally. The first time each other Droid ally is reduced to 1% Health, they equalize Health with L3-37.

So we have the two key terms, "health percentages equalize" and "they equalize health", and these are two very different things.

"health percentages equalize" - not equalization of health, but of the % itself.
"they equalize health" - This should be actual health equalization, you equalize the numbers and the two characters have the same value after the adjustment at 100% health.

Couple of things to point out here:
1) The abilities you quote there from those characters all look to be using the same programmed mechanic called "Distribute_Health", so the difference in wording appears to me inconsequential
2) You appear to be assuming that characters cannot have more than 100% health, this however is not the case and characters can and do often have over 100% of their 'max' health (For instance Daka or GG)
3) You also seem to be assuming that the equalization of health always occurs AFTER they have taken damage from an attack however this is not the case (For instance the Geonosians health distributions occurs before the enemy turn mechancs are applied)
darkhelmet1641
6 years ago
Anyone else remember when this was the way to beat the original GMY event?

You had to knock down health until barris equalized it, actually lowering GMYs health.

The only other event thats ever been as maddening has been malak lol
crzydroid
Retired Hero
6 years ago
A couple of things:

There are two sides to every coin. Hitting a weak character will result in a tankier character losing more raw health to equalize percentages, but my opponent hitting that tanky character down to almost nothing means they will gain much more raw health during the equalization of health compared to what the weaker characters lose. So in that scenario health is actually introduced into the system.

The other consolation I might offer is that even though the tank is losing more raw health, they are still left with a larger pool of raw health since it's a percentage. Though I do acknowledge since damage is dealt in terms of raw numbers, losing that amount could be frustrated.

The other thing I see here is that you seem to be basing your argument around the fact that raw health could be potentially lost from the system. But that's just the nature of trying to equalize things among containers of different size when the containers can't change. If we equalized actual health, some would still be lost from the system because max health isn't changing. In your example of glasses, let's say the half full one is of smaller size. To equalize the raw amount of water and redistribute means some will overflow the smaller glass and become lost. So clearly that is no kind of solution. A tank will lose a bunch of health to basically top off a bunch of smaller characters. In fact, one might imagine some hypothetical scenario in which the tanky character actually loses MORE health than in the percentage based system.

In fact, let's do that right now. You have four containers of size 3 and one of size 5. You hit one of the smaller containers down to 1. In the percentage-based system, 4.33/5 = 0.866. Percentages stay the same but a net loss of 0.277 units is incurred (0.134×3×3+0.134×5−0.533×3). In a system where raw values are used, the 15 remaining units divided by 5 equals 3 units to be distributed to each container. There is no net loss of raw health in this specific example (though we get close), but the tank now has 60% health instead of 86.6%.

I think percentage equalization makes the most intuitive sense.
VeritasInfinite
6 years ago
It is that simple because that’s how it works. That’s pretty much the definition of equalization, to make everything equal. If you want your brother to get 6 apples and you remain at 10, that’s not equalizing, that’s healing.

If the 10 apples is the focus of your rule number 3, then nothing happens? Then what’s the point of equalizing? What’s the point of having that ability at all?
almightywood
6 years ago
Let's take a scenario where there were only 2 characters. One has 50k health, and the other has 100k health.

Lets say the 100k health character drops to 50% health, or 50k overall. If it just went by % equalizing, it would put them both to 75%, the 100k health toon would gain 25k health and the 50k health toon would lose 12.5k health. 12.5k health would appear out of nowhere.

If it was the 50k guy that dropped to 50% and went by %, he would only gain 12.5k while the 100k guy would lose 25k. 12.5k health would disappear.

Neither of these sounds like equalizing to me so I never even considered that being the way that it works, and I still don't think it does.

The way I've always understood it, it would look at there being 100k health out of 150k possible for the whole team which is 66.6% (2/3). So it would put them both at 66.6% health. 100k guy would have 66.6k and 50k guy would have 33.3k

Now if there is an actual difference in health equalize and health % equalize, I would assume that both people ended up with the same amount of flat health (if possible) rather than the same %. So 100k available would mean each would get 50k. If there is actually a difference between the two. I've never paid close enough attention to the bars to notice one.
nabokovfan87
6 years ago
I will put there here for context and to explain one methodology vs another. Tomorrow I'll edit this post and elaborate on advantages, disadvantages, and the in game result variations/strategy. Specifically below I'm going to be talking about Geonosians

Example 1: Current working version
1. Attack occurs, characters equalize
2. Health percentages summarized, average value obtained.
3. All allies have health's adjusted to average percentage
4. Damage occurs as normal (assume non AoE for clarity)
5. Next attack occurs, all health values drop by a %, lowest health is raised up.

Example 2: Example 1 w/ rules applied
1. Attack occurs, characters equalize
2. Health total is calculated and average number obtained
3. All allies have health adjusted to average numerical value, full %
4. Damage occurs as normal
5. Next attack occurs, Health is equalized again.

Example 3: Osmosis/Hivemind method
1. Attack occurs, characters equalize
2. Total health is evaluated, value obtained, divided evenly among remaining allies.
3. Damage occurs as normal
4. Next attack occurs, equalization occurs again, the "pool" is lowered very slightly.
VeritasInfinite
6 years ago
Health Equalization has works this way since Chirrut was introduced.
nabokovfan87
6 years ago
"KausDebonair;c-1925080" wrote:
So, if I understand correctly.

If Bob has 100 health and Steve has 50, and they equalize, you don’t believe both should be at 75 afterward? You want Bob to remain at 100 and Steve to “equalize” to 100? That’s not equalization, that’s just healing.

“Just because the ally has lower health does not mean they should lose health.” Yes, it does. If you have 10 apples and your brother has 4, and your mom tells you to make the apples equal, you lose 3 apples.

No, it's not that simple.
If 10 apples was the focus of equalization, rule #3 no change.
If 4 apples was the focus, then everyone now has 7.

This is based on Values, not percentages, that is a critical difference.
NyKynoe
6 years ago
"Sarcodino;c-1925101" wrote:
So if i have 4 geos with 100k hp and one with 50k at max hp and an enemy uses a non damaging spell then all of them will end with 90k???
Thats why it works as %... Because units can have more hp than his max xD

This is why they have to use %.

I also believe it would make it worse to do this method:

Let's say Sun Fec is taunting, he is countering and healing, but without the equalization applying your team wouldnt heal if he was the healthiest character.