Self preservation zeta for sith raid

So I'll start by admitting i only skimmed the wall of text. But you are arguing over def down and nihl protection regen. But what about the part in JTRs lead that says if you use a special and aren't suffering from any debuffs reduce your ability cds by 1? Wouldn't combat analysis help you trigger that cd reduction?

"Woodroward;c-1586974" wrote:


Come on man, you are the ignorant one here. Why can't you just admit it instead of trying to insist that I am?

Because while you may be right about the zeta preventing the negative effects of using basics on nihilus with def down, i think zeta-ing R2 is a horrible way to try to improve your p1 score, even if it works exactly like you say it does.
Also because i find it entertaining to see you try to come up with an explanation to why R2's zeta is better than JTR's zeta is. You're clearly wrong, but you just keep going, haha.
There's also the possibility that you've found a team composition and strategy in which R2 really shines that is actually better than what's currently considered to be the best strategy. I like to think that you think you have, but i highly doubt you did. It would still be hilarious if you actually did though and i would copy it without hesitation.
And lastly because i'm wondering if you would admit it if it turns out that you were using a subpar strategy and after watching that vid you've doubled your score using a strategy in which R2's zeta hardly comes into play.

"DuneFlint;c-1587058" wrote:
So I'll start by admitting i only skimmed the wall of text. But you are arguing over def down and nihl protection regen. But what about the part in JTRs lead that says if you use a special and aren't suffering from any debuffs reduce your ability cds by 1? Wouldn't combat analysis help you trigger that cd reduction?

No, the order of operations is that the cd reduction happens when you press the button to perform the action, while the cleanse only happens after you hit.

"ChristophIV;c-1587104" wrote:
The bit I'm not understand is how its preventing him regaining protection. So a character with defence down crits and cleanses, but shouldn't the protection regain happen after the hit but before the cleanse?

Or is it crits from specials remove defence down so its safe to hit him with a basic?

Personally, my zeta order would be: JTR lead, R2 NC, BB8 RWTP, JTR Virtuous Protector, BB8 Self Presevation or R2 Combat Analysis, then the other one, then JTR Insight. That's if I was to zeta them now with P1 in mind, already had both R2's ages ago.

The protection regen raid effect from Nihilus and the cleanse from R2 both go on the stack because when the hit is made it passes the check for a debuff, but R2's cleanse resolves first for whatever reason so when the raid effect does the secondary check associated with the actual response, the condition that makes it work is no longer true and it fizzles.

At least that's how I'm guessing it works mainly based on my understanding of effect resolution from the game magic the gathering (which has a very similar rule structure to this game and is one of the reasons I started playing it actually).

"leef;c-1587100" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1586974" wrote:


Come on man, you are the ignorant one here. Why can't you just admit it instead of trying to insist that I am?

Because while you may be right about the zeta preventing the negative effects of using basics on nihilus with def down, i think zeta-ing R2 is a horrible way to try to improve your p1 score, even if it works exactly like you say it does.
Also because i find it entertaining to see you try to come up with an explanation to why R2's zeta is better than JTR's zeta is. You're clearly wrong, but you just keep going, haha.
There's also the possibility that you've found a team composition and strategy in which R2 really shines that is actually better than what's currently considered to be the best strategy. I like to think that you think you have, but i highly doubt you did. It would still be hilarious if you actually did though and i would copy it without hesitation.
And lastly because i'm wondering if you would admit it if it turns out that you were using a subpar strategy and after watching that vid you've doubled your score using a strategy in which R2's zeta hardly comes into play.

I'm not clearly wrong. I can't say for sure that my comp is better than others, but I know my strat of continuously attacking Nihilus produces much greater results than not with my comp. I run JTR trio with Trooper and Chirrut. Ever laying off of Nihilus with my comp produces worse results. I'm not trying to come up with anything. I am relaying my experience to you.

You have no reason to wonder if I would admit it if I was wrong. I always admit when I'm wrong. I admitted when I was wrong about Nihilus's basic in this thread. What have you admitted your wrongness in? I feel like this is you putting your own weaknesses on me personally since I have done so in this thread even and you have not.

@Woodroward

Under a zeta JTR lead, you should basically never be hitting Julius (my guild's name for him thanks to a discord autocorrect and my own inability to spell his name right) with a basic when you already have defense down.

RT - Spam special.
Rey - Alternate specials.
R2 - Alternate specials.
BB8 - Spam special.
JTR - Mind tricks, assist call, basic. Repeat.

The only way you should be hitting Julius with a basic on consecutive attacks is if Julius increased a cooldown on a toon, that toon has to attack with basic, and then BB8 calls that same toon to attack again before their next turn. This happens almost never, especially with all the foresight being thrown around.

CA is a nice zeta. But it's almost useless in P1 of the Sith Raid.

"TVF;c-1588776" wrote:
@Woodroward

Under a zeta JTR lead, you should basically never be hitting Julius (my guild's name for him thanks to a discord autocorrect and my own inability to spell his name right) with a basic when you already have defense down.

RT - Spam special.
Rey - Alternate specials.
R2 - Alternate specials.
BB8 - Spam special.
JTR - Mind tricks, assist call, basic. Repeat.

The only way you should be hitting Julius with a basic on consecutive attacks is if Julius increased a cooldown on a toon, that toon has to attack with basic, and then BB8 calls that same toon to attack again before their next turn. This happens almost never, especially with all the foresight being thrown around.

CA is a nice zeta. But it's almost useless in P1 of the Sith Raid.

I use Chirrut not scav rey. With all the assists and cooldown increases, and lack of cooldown decreases due to defense down, I end up hitting with defense down on a basic about 1 out of every 3 or 4 attacks. Combat Analysis is hands down the biggest damage and survivability boost for P1 of the Sith raid out of the 7 I am using.

Maybe your problem is that you're using Chirrut. Regardless, if you're hitting defense down on a basic 1 out of every 3 or 4 attacks, you are doing something wrong. The fact that CA means so much to you pretty much points to that.

What tier are you doing and how much damage?

"TVF;c-1589500" wrote:
Maybe your problem is that you're using Chirrut. Regardless, if you're hitting defense down on a basic 1 out of every 3 or 4 attacks, you are doing something wrong. The fact that CA means so much to you pretty much points to that.

What tier are you doing and how much damage?

t4 9-10mill.

I could lay off Nihilus and hit the adds to lose the defense down, but the damage goes down by about 2-3 million when I do, so I don't bother since CA takes care of it.

9-10m in P1/T4 just with that team? How is that possible? There's no way a team with Chirrut in place of Rey should be able to do 3-4m more in P1 than I was doing when we were running T4. You lose out on too many exposes and the ten up isn't worth anything to this team, especially with CA active.

"TVF;c-1589560" wrote:
9-10m in P1/T4 just with that team? How is that possible? There's no way a team with Chirrut in place of Rey should be able to do 3-4m more in P1 than I was doing when we were running T4. You lose out on too many exposes and the ten up isn't worth anything to this team, especially with CA active.

IDK, that's what I do on average when I try. I focus Nihilus the entire match. Chirrut is in there for a quick heal on whoever ends up tanking the annihilate, not for damage reasons.