Devs could've made Thrawn anti Chaze/Triple Cleanse with one tweak

"Olddumper;c-1138942" wrote:

"HeresTheTruth;c-1138860" wrote:

"Olddumper;c-1138740" wrote:
Yeah I think we need to give up on making a kit that would counter Chaze. It could be done but the easier way about this would be just to nerf them into reality. You can leave everything the same just bring down their base stats a little. Take 4k health from Chirrut and reduce his speed by 20. Make Baze hit half as hard. Now you can still play with their same fun kits it's just that they are in line with the rest of the game.

What you talking bout Willis? Chirrut already has low enough health and Baze? Well Baze doesnt hit hard to begin with...so sayin make Baze hit half as hard is just ridiculous.

Why dont you just ise B2 like ive been saying?


Oh wait....you dont use B2 dont ya?

https://swgoh.gg/u/olddumper/

I don't struggle with Chaze. That still doesn't mean they arent out of hand.

Dude give up on here's the truth he will never get it and just trolls for attention and you guys give it to him.

"Mastoraz;c-1138999" wrote:
The problem is not that Chaze is not beatable, its just they made them doing everything between the two of them that a whole team can do, and it has forced almost everyone to run them. Which leads to an oversatured arena where we see nothing but Chaze, in almost every team, and I think most, including ones using them, are just tired and bored of using them for so long. They want other solutions, but so far EA/CG just hasn't come up with anything that will top the absolute awesomeness that Chaze bring to team. Its unmatched, and that, I believe, is why people are just getting **** off.

I really wish the anti-chazers would come up with a new argument, because this is just factually wrong. Usage statistics have (and have had for months now) Kenobi and Nihilus way out in front of Chaze, and even Rex - who's only ever used as a leader - is ahead of Chirrut. Yet in spite of this no one complains about Nihilus, even though there's no counterplay to his CD increase since they decided it should in fact ignore tenacity. No one complains about Kenobi, even though Soresu alone would be enough to make him the best tank in the game.

Yes Triple Cleanse is highly prevalent, but that has just as much to do with Nilly, GK, and Rex's TM lead as it does Chaze.

"fascizio;c-1139023" wrote:

"Mastoraz;c-1138999" wrote:
The problem is not that Chaze is not beatable, its just they made them doing everything between the two of them that a whole team can do, and it has forced almost everyone to run them. Which leads to an oversatured arena where we see nothing but Chaze, in almost every team, and I think most, including ones using them, are just tired and bored of using them for so long. They want other solutions, but so far EA/CG just hasn't come up with anything that will top the absolute awesomeness that Chaze bring to team. Its unmatched, and that, I believe, is why people are just getting **** off.

I really wish the anti-chazers would come up with a new argument, because this is just factually wrong. Usage statistics have (and have had for months now) Kenobi and Nihilus way out in front of Chaze, and even Rex - who's only ever used as a leader - is ahead of Chirrut. Yet in spite of this no one complains about Nihilus, even though there's no counterplay to his CD increase since they decided it should in fact ignore tenacity. No one complains about Kenobi, even though Soresu alone would be enough to make him the best tank in the game.

Yes Triple Cleanse is highly prevalent, but that has just as much to do with Nilly, GK, and Rex's TM lead as it does Chaze.

GK is a special case because he is a reward toon so he gets to be op. He is also essential to the starwars story line.

DN is the only darkside character in the game that can be universally used so you are going to see him in a ton of squads.

Chaze are two nobodies that were in part of one starwars movie and they are used in half of arena teams.

Gk and DN are also much newer toons.

Here is a fun idea, what if we switched Made and Yodas Kit with Baze and Chirrut. To think its okay for mace and yoda to be a joke in arena but have Chaze the way they are is pretty out of touch.

"Mastoraz;c-1138999" wrote:
The problem is not that Chaze is not beatable, its just they made them doing everything between the two of them that a whole team can do, and it has forced almost everyone to run them. Which leads to an oversatured arena where we see nothing but Chaze, in almost every team, and I think most, including ones using them, are just tired and bored of using them for so long. They want other solutions, but so far EA/CG just hasn't come up with anything that will top the absolute awesomeness that Chaze bring to team. Its unmatched, and that, I believe, is why people are just getting **** off.

This

They also could have put something in his unique that affects ALL rebels (ally or enemy) so that using thrawn with chaze hurts your team.

"Olddumper;c-1139039" wrote:

"fascizio;c-1139023" wrote:

"Mastoraz;c-1138999" wrote:
The problem is not that Chaze is not beatable, its just they made them doing everything between the two of them that a whole team can do, and it has forced almost everyone to run them. Which leads to an oversatured arena where we see nothing but Chaze, in almost every team, and I think most, including ones using them, are just tired and bored of using them for so long. They want other solutions, but so far EA/CG just hasn't come up with anything that will top the absolute awesomeness that Chaze bring to team. Its unmatched, and that, I believe, is why people are just getting **** off.

I really wish the anti-chazers would come up with a new argument, because this is just factually wrong. Usage statistics have (and have had for months now) Kenobi and Nihilus way out in front of Chaze, and even Rex - who's only ever used as a leader - is ahead of Chirrut. Yet in spite of this no one complains about Nihilus, even though there's no counterplay to his CD increase since they decided it should in fact ignore tenacity. No one complains about Kenobi, even though Soresu alone would be enough to make him the best tank in the game.

Yes Triple Cleanse is highly prevalent, but that has just as much to do with Nilly, GK, and Rex's TM lead as it does Chaze.

GK is a special case because he is a reward toon so he gets to be op. He is also essential to the starwars story line.

DN is the only darkside character in the game that can be universally used so you are going to see him in a ton of squads.

Chaze are two nobodies that were in part of one starwars movie and they are used in half of arena teams.

Gk and DN are also much newer toons.

Here is a fun idea, what if we switched Made and Yodas Kit with Baze and Chirrut. To think its okay for mace and yoda to be a joke in arena but have Chaze the way they are is pretty out of touch.

This is a non-argument. CG has said from the beginning that canon power has nothing to do with power in game. Otherwise everyone would just be running Palp/Yoda +3 forever and ever. Furthermore you're basically saying that you like Kenobi better than Baze so nerf the new guy. Not a compelling stance.

Also, just to cover bases, when did Yoda and Mace fight together? Why should they have that level of synergy? The closest they come in the movies is when Mace is the arena in AotC and Yoda does a fly by and drops off some clones. Chaze meanwhile lived and fought together for who knows how long.

Honestly, I would love the two masters of the Jedi order to be more powerful, but that has nothing to do with Chaze or Kenobi or Nihilus.

"Olddumper;c-1139039" wrote:
GK is a special case because he is a reward toon so he gets to be op. He is also essential to the starwars story line.

This is mind-blowing btw. Dude has cleanse, counters, taunts, damage avoidance, damage mitigation, and a strong damage ability, (he does everything Chaze does minus dispel in one toon) but he's a reward for a raid that most mid to high end players have on farm so it's ok... but Chaze isn't.

Sorry, no. If Kenobi is fine (and in the current landscape I would contend that he is) then Chaze is fine.

"Yung_Hen;d-117277" wrote:
His leadership ability grants empire allies 20% turn meter whenever they resist a debuff or get a debuff. If they changed that to "empire allies get 20% turn meter whenever an enemy gains a buff," it could give them a lot of turns for whenever the enemy gets a HOT from Chirrut, tenacity up, etc. (Obviously the tm gain might have to be balanced or tweaked based on this change but the idea itself is what matters). But that triple cleanse team is so buff-heavy that this leadership would actually combat it, and gaining TM when they get a debuff (the current structure) is kinda irrelevant against a team that doesn't really apply them.

This was my hope before they released his kit.

I hope they do change his move prioritzation but the event Thrawn is hard enough to beat as he is now.

I still can't get past tier 6.

"fascizio;c-1139023" wrote:

"Mastoraz;c-1138999" wrote:
The problem is not that Chaze is not beatable, its just they made them doing everything between the two of them that a whole team can do, and it has forced almost everyone to run them. Which leads to an oversatured arena where we see nothing but Chaze, in almost every team, and I think most, including ones using them, are just tired and bored of using them for so long. They want other solutions, but so far EA/CG just hasn't come up with anything that will top the absolute awesomeness that Chaze bring to team. Its unmatched, and that, I believe, is why people are just getting **** off.

I really wish the anti-chazers would come up with a new argument, because this is just factually wrong. Usage statistics have (and have had for months now) Kenobi and Nihilus way out in front of Chaze, and even Rex - who's only ever used as a leader - is ahead of Chirrut. Yet in spite of this no one complains about Nihilus, even though there's no counterplay to his CD increase since they decided it should in fact ignore tenacity. No one complains about Kenobi, even though Soresu alone would be enough to make him the best tank in the game.

Yes Triple Cleanse is highly prevalent, but that has just as much to do with Nilly, GK, and Rex's TM lead as it does Chaze.

This post shows incorrect data reading.

I highly recommend you take a look at some of these articles and others like it to understand proper reading when it comes to statistics and game balance:
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jLGvQ3Wk-before-you-make-a-post-about-balance
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/data-and-champion-balance-part-1

"Jedi_Reach_;c-1139065" wrote:

"fascizio;c-1139023" wrote:

"Mastoraz;c-1138999" wrote:
The problem is not that Chaze is not beatable, its just they made them doing everything between the two of them that a whole team can do, and it has forced almost everyone to run them. Which leads to an oversatured arena where we see nothing but Chaze, in almost every team, and I think most, including ones using them, are just tired and bored of using them for so long. They want other solutions, but so far EA/CG just hasn't come up with anything that will top the absolute awesomeness that Chaze bring to team. Its unmatched, and that, I believe, is why people are just getting **** off.

I really wish the anti-chazers would come up with a new argument, because this is just factually wrong. Usage statistics have (and have had for months now) Kenobi and Nihilus way out in front of Chaze, and even Rex - who's only ever used as a leader - is ahead of Chirrut. Yet in spite of this no one complains about Nihilus, even though there's no counterplay to his CD increase since they decided it should in fact ignore tenacity. No one complains about Kenobi, even though Soresu alone would be enough to make him the best tank in the game.

Yes Triple Cleanse is highly prevalent, but that has just as much to do with Nilly, GK, and Rex's TM lead as it does Chaze.

This post shows incorrect data reading.

I highly recommend you take a look at some of these articles and others like it to understand proper reading when it comes to statistics and game balance:
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jLGvQ3Wk-before-you-make-a-post-about-balance
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/data-and-champion-balance-part-1

1: League of Legends and GoH are not the same game, or even the same type of game.
2: Their design philosophy is not the same as CG's, yet even so they state the balance around the top tier of play, making the meta report a very valid metric per your own sources.
3: At no point in either of those articles do they even approach an in depth analysis of metrics or statistics, so these aren't even relevant to the problem you claim to have (with no supporting evidence) with my post.
4: This article even states that the team in question does not nerf based on a heroes popularity, which was the argument I was responding to. Your source further proves my point.
5: There's nothing flawed with my analysis. I discussed current metrics as well as past metrics and indicated that their had been no upward movement in recent months with Chaze (Chirrut in fact moved down). It is in fact your "analysis" (that again had no actual evidence) that is flawed.

"fascizio;c-1139088" wrote:

"Jedi_Reach_;c-1139065" wrote:

"fascizio;c-1139023" wrote:

"Mastoraz;c-1138999" wrote:
The problem is not that Chaze is not beatable, its just they made them doing everything between the two of them that a whole team can do, and it has forced almost everyone to run them. Which leads to an oversatured arena where we see nothing but Chaze, in almost every team, and I think most, including ones using them, are just tired and bored of using them for so long. They want other solutions, but so far EA/CG just hasn't come up with anything that will top the absolute awesomeness that Chaze bring to team. Its unmatched, and that, I believe, is why people are just getting **** off.

I really wish the anti-chazers would come up with a new argument, because this is just factually wrong. Usage statistics have (and have had for months now) Kenobi and Nihilus way out in front of Chaze, and even Rex - who's only ever used as a leader - is ahead of Chirrut. Yet in spite of this no one complains about Nihilus, even though there's no counterplay to his CD increase since they decided it should in fact ignore tenacity. No one complains about Kenobi, even though Soresu alone would be enough to make him the best tank in the game.

Yes Triple Cleanse is highly prevalent, but that has just as much to do with Nilly, GK, and Rex's TM lead as it does Chaze.

This post shows incorrect data reading.

I highly recommend you take a look at some of these articles and others like it to understand proper reading when it comes to statistics and game balance:
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/jLGvQ3Wk-before-you-make-a-post-about-balance
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/data-and-champion-balance-part-1

1: League of Legends and GoH are not the same game, or even the same type of game.
2: Their design philosophy is not the same as CG's, yet even so they state the balance around the top tier of play, making the meta report a very valid metric per your own sources.
3: At no point in either of those articles do they even approach an in depth analysis of metrics or statistics, so these aren't even relevant to the problem you claim to have (with no supporting evidence) with my post.
4: This article even states that the team in question does not nerf based on a heroes popularity, which was the argument I was responding to. Your source further proves my point.
5: There's nothing flawed with my analysis. I discussed current metrics as well as past metrics and indicated that their had been no upward movement in recent months with Chaze (Chirrut in fact moved down). It is in fact your "analysis" (that again had no actual evidence) that is flawed.

1: Game balance is a universal philosophy, and relaying data based off statistics of game data requires observation of environment, how, why and several other factors involved including player capability. Those articles were designed to educate you on a balance ideally.

2: Their deign philosophy is ideal, and ideal for many games outside the same genre. It's clear it works, as the money they make compared to this game speaks for itself.

3: This is coming from the person who had no idea what an RPG is and why the variance matters. The evidence is your lack of knowledge in reading the numbers and why they exist the way as they do. Your reading is completely flat; you think that the numbers are to be taken at face value without accounting for the reason why they exist the way it exists which is why I linked you those articles to get a better idea of balance metrics and how to read them. IE: Character X is B% due to Y.

4: Read 3.

5: Your analysis is flawed because you have no idea how to read it. Refer to 3 once more.