Nest bug fix, refund zeta please [MERGE]

"Deum_Alisi1;c-1711462" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1711451" wrote:

"Dave12;c-1711448" wrote:
“Only?” This was how you counteracted a Revan team. This is a huge deal in Arena, and it seems the “this is not what we intended” is really “oh crud, our Revan p2p players are getting upset”

No

If you read what the bug fix was about you would know that the only way Nest users were beating Revan was by exploiting a bug

They weren't exploiting a bug. That's how she worked out the gate. They came in later after everyone built her up to counter Revan and said oops our bad, but you'll still take the lose. It's becoming a recurring theme that can only be chalked up to ineptitude.

I think it being a bug is undeniable. However the issue then becomes is it our fault for not catching their mistake? I'd say it's not, and I think it's fair to be upset. Players assumed the product they got was working as it should, and invested accordingly. And I'm not a Nest user, btw.

"TVF;c-1711466" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1711451" wrote:

"Dave12;c-1711448" wrote:
“Only?” This was how you counteracted a Revan team. This is a huge deal in Arena, and it seems the “this is not what we intended” is really “oh crud, our Revan p2p players are getting upset”

No

If you read what the bug fix was about you would know that the only way Nest users were beating Revan was by exploiting a bug

A bug that's been obvious for a long time, that they never did anything about, and now just bothered to get around to it (likely because whales complained). Oh and they didn't bother to mention it in the update either, which has a section devoted to bug fixes by the way.

I don't know a single whale (or other player with Revan) who has complained about Nest. My GMY under Revan lead typically one-shots a Nest. Dead Nest = no bonus protection.

Every change to this game is not a conspiracy. They didn't mention it in the update, but SBCrumb did a separate Dev Announcement post to declare this as an intentional bug fix.

"Deum_Alisi1;c-1711462" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1711451" wrote:

"Dave12;c-1711448" wrote:
“Only?” This was how you counteracted a Revan team. This is a huge deal in Arena, and it seems the “this is not what we intended” is really “oh crud, our Revan p2p players are getting upset”

No

If you read what the bug fix was about you would know that the only way Nest users were beating Revan was by exploiting a bug

They weren't exploiting a bug. That's how she worked out the gate. They came in later after everyone built her up to counter Revan and said oops our bad, but you'll still take the lose. It's becoming a recurring theme that can only be chalked up to ineptitude.

The problem is that she wasn't working correctly out of the gate. Protection up is always based on max health but the game was incorrectly using the max health at the start of the battle rather than the current max health at the time of protection up being applied.

No other toon reduced max health other than Jango Fett who is hardly used against Nest so it went unnoticed.

"Ultra;c-1711451" wrote:

"Dave12;c-1711448" wrote:
“Only?” This was how you counteracted a Revan team. This is a huge deal in Arena, and it seems the “this is not what we intended” is really “oh crud, our Revan p2p players are getting upset”

No

If you read what the bug fix was about you would know that the only way Nest users were beating Revan was by exploiting a bug

Fake News.

Us „Nest Users“ were not exploiting anything. We used a characters mechanic that has been there for almost 6 Month . This clearly aint no bug. So do not call it a bug. Dear Devs: Just be honest. You
made a mistake programing her the way she was cause you were not smart enough to forsee what she could do to upcoming meta toons. So now you nerf her. It‘s not a problem. Just give us „Nest Users“ all the Gear and Zetas back that we invested in her and the teams around her. Because we knew how the Character you designed was working. Based on that knowledge we were building our Revan Counterteams that are useless now. And to everybody that says this is not a big deal: you are wrong. For me and many others it is a big deal. Please take this serious.

"CCyrilS;c-1711472" wrote:

"Deum_Alisi1;c-1711462" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1711451" wrote:

"Dave12;c-1711448" wrote:
“Only?” This was how you counteracted a Revan team. This is a huge deal in Arena, and it seems the “this is not what we intended” is really “oh crud, our Revan p2p players are getting upset”

No

If you read what the bug fix was about you would know that the only way Nest users were beating Revan was by exploiting a bug

They weren't exploiting a bug. That's how she worked out the gate. They came in later after everyone built her up to counter Revan and said oops our bad, but you'll still take the lose. It's becoming a recurring theme that can only be chalked up to ineptitude.

I think it being a bug is undeniable. However the issue then becomes is it our fault for not catching their mistake? I'd say it's not, and I think it's fair to be upset. Players assumed the product they got was working as it should, and invested accordingly. And I'm not a Nest user, btw.

They used to do a bug bin that would let players know about KNOWN bugs that they will address sometime in the future (weeks or months ahead) and I really miss that feature. It would let people know weeks / months ahead that the Nest Protection up is marked as a bug and CG would get around to fixing it eventually or if any other toon they are working towards has an issue they didn't know about

"Ultra;c-1711451" wrote:

"Dave12;c-1711448" wrote:
“Only?” This was how you counteracted a Revan team. This is a huge deal in Arena, and it seems the “this is not what we intended” is really “oh crud, our Revan p2p players are getting upset”

No

If you read what the bug fix was about you would know that the only way Nest users were beating Revan was by exploiting a bug

nice try CG.
and really now. it isnt a bug, they just wanted to change it because it hurts Revan's dominance.
if they change this, they should now change DN stacking to be more and more (lets say he start with 50K. first 10% is 5K. next is 5.5K. next one is 6.1K and so on...) and same with FoX, his stacking should be the same stacking - counted with the CURRENT HP. same with Daka zetad.

FoX and DN stacking is based on current HP like you described and always has been like that afaik

EDIT: Not a CG shill, but I do work in Software Security

Here's a small lesson in Software Security that is applied to things like bugs and vulnerabilities, there is a concept of probability of likelihood of a vulnerability being exploited AND the impact of the exploit,

Basically, no system is bug free and if anyone says there is no bugs in my program they don't know a thing about security. The example to use here would be a wall called Enfys Nest. This wall had a hole 3 feet from the ground level. There was water filled up to 2 feet high from the ground at the time of release. This is acceptable. As long as nobody can reach the hole and exploit it, its ok to release a product aka the wall (Enfys Nest) without patching the hole. There might be a few edge cases where someone might be able to take advantage of it (using Nest against Jango Fett) but the impact of being exploited is really low (not many players running Jango).

Spending time / cost on fixing a hole that will never be reached is pointless. What Jedi Knight Revan did was add 1 more feet of water, causing water to leak through the hole and cause a big upset.

The most important question before deciding to work on a bug is the Impact. How much impact does this vulnerability have in the game. This exploit ranked High, since it affected a lot of important PvP modes, which means CG had to rush over and put a band-aid on it real quick and ignore other more important bugs to fix

From CG_Crumbs comments, this was an issue affecting all characters that modify max health, they just happened to discover it via a bug report on Nest they investigated. So it's not an intentional nerf, it's the correction of a systemic issue.

That said, I've not put a zeta on Nest, but many players invested heavily in her over several months based on her existing gameplay. Bug or not, those folks deserve an optional refund of their zeta like CG did with Daka.

"Strubz;c-1711445" wrote:
I've seen a lot of refund requests over the years in this game. This is the first one that truly blows my mind.

1. The zeta has nothing to do with the change.

2 The change only affects toons that stack a decrease in max health which is pretty much only Revan.

3. Revan was released very far after Nest and is literally a hard counter to Nest by design.

4. Don't use Nest against Revan you dummies.

5. Most importantly, Nest is still, by far, one of the top 10 best overall toons in the game and, in my opinion, the second best plug and play toon with any squad (first is Thrawn).

6. Don't use Nest against Revan you kittens. Bears repeating.

7. People are stupid and probably won’t pay attention to the first 6 points unfortunately

Really not good business practice... when you put out a char that's so OP, just to get ppl to "buy" a marquee. Then turnaround and nerf it.

THIS IS BECOMING A REOCCURRING THEME.