NS Viability

"ewqewqc;c-1436609" wrote:
Yep. NS+GK is surely hard, especially if it's arena team.
But point stands , troopers can still beat it. (Just need bit stronger troopers)

Not only stronger - but they need to be fast as well - especially Starck. A slow trooper team will have issues catching up to a fast NS squad and getting kills in time.

"ewqewqc;c-1436904" wrote:

"Tuftedpaper85;c-1436871" wrote:

"ewqewqc;c-1436209" wrote:
big waste to use it on defense. can be countered easily by troopers.
but on offense, they are amazing. can remove CLS squads, can remove jRey squads. you can even split them and beat both CLS and jRey squads with some fillers involved. (when they are geared better, not in your scenario)
MT Leadership zeta make it from strong squad to amazing one.

This is exactly why you want them on defense. Someone in the other guild has to use their good trooper team to take yours out. Especially if you're in an average guild. Most of the other average guilds you'll face aren't gonna have a lot of full trooper teams

Might be. I think the conclusion is that on high levels, where the offense for sure have troopers, NS will become a waste of defense, but still will be useful as very cheap and very powerful counter to strong squads that are guaranteed to be put in defense.
While for lower guilds, NS for defense can really surprise the enemy. But it will still require more than 1 NS squad. Wall of 25 - might be enough as surprise, with some variations of GK as 5th, JKa, zSid and such.

We just had a TW and faced a 160mm GP guild and there were G12 trooper teams losing to G12 zombie / GK NS comps - that was the first slice up front on defense. Troopers are not nearly the same level of counter to that NS formation. From experience facing multiple 150mmGP+ opponents and seeing CLS, KRU, Thrawn, NS with no GK, NS with GK, RJT variations...NS with GK and a G11 or 12 zombie seemed to be the toughest D for most to deal with on the whole so far.

"JohnnySteelAlpha;c-1437028" wrote:

"ewqewqc;c-1436904" wrote:

"Tuftedpaper85;c-1436871" wrote:

"ewqewqc;c-1436209" wrote:
big waste to use it on defense. can be countered easily by troopers.
but on offense, they are amazing. can remove CLS squads, can remove jRey squads. you can even split them and beat both CLS and jRey squads with some fillers involved. (when they are geared better, not in your scenario)
MT Leadership zeta make it from strong squad to amazing one.

This is exactly why you want them on defense. Someone in the other guild has to use their good trooper team to take yours out. Especially if you're in an average guild. Most of the other average guilds you'll face aren't gonna have a lot of full trooper teams

Might be. I think the conclusion is that on high levels, where the offense for sure have troopers, NS will become a waste of defense, but still will be useful as very cheap and very powerful counter to strong squads that are guaranteed to be put in defense.
While for lower guilds, NS for defense can really surprise the enemy. But it will still require more than 1 NS squad. Wall of 25 - might be enough as surprise, with some variations of GK as 5th, JKa, zSid and such.

We just had a TW and faced a 160mm GP guild and there were G12 trooper teams losing to G12 zombie / GK NS comps - that was the first slice up front on defense. Troopers are not nearly the same level of counter to that NS formation. From experience facing multiple 150mmGP+ opponents and seeing CLS, KRU, Thrawn, NS with no GK, NS with GK, RJT variations...NS with GK and a G11 or 12 zombie seemed to be the toughest D for most to deal with on the whole so far.

because they are used as arena teams, probably. its a common arena team, and great defensively for obvious reason - the main counter is troopers.
this is what happens when troopers who are medium modded facing NS with god-tier modding.
i even swapped my arena team to be able to beat this team without swapping toons in the process - because i dont want to swap in my troopers every 3rd fight, and vs someone in my shard, the modding wasnt good enough and i lost.
imo, NS+GK is probably the best defensive squad there is. and since it is great defensively - the guys with the troopers should've been ready and come with super-fast starck, or dont try at all.
also, if they know their troopers cant do it, they should have chaze, or at least chirrut, for offense.

Saying an NS team held against 7 teams trying to knock out your team slowly means nothing. They were definitely trash teams that wouldnt have affected the outcome. The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you wont make that mistake again.

On defense, a guild will have so many effective answers to ns teams, from chaze to jtr to boba/dn to troopers.

On offense, you should be able to beat a team that has a higher GP.

A 60k ns team with MT zeta can handle any meta 100k gp team.

As others have said, if they are very highly geared, the ns can be split to handle 2 meta squads.

Without a doubt, ns are better on offense.

"Mobewan;c-1437087" wrote:
Saying an NS team held against 7 teams trying to knock out your team slowly means nothing. They were definitely trash teams that wouldnt have affected the outcome. The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you wont make that mistake again.

On defense, a guild will have so many effective answers to ns teams, from chaze to jtr to boba/dn to troopers.

On offense, you should be able to beat a team that has a higher GP.

A 60k ns team with MT zeta can handle any meta 100k gp team.

As others have said, if they are very highly geared, the ns can be split to handle 2 meta squads.

Without a doubt, ns are better on offense.

The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you won't make that mistake again because he won't face your guild again lol.

Chaze teams are best set on defense, as are JTR. The only team that is a reliable counter to nightsisters that you can expect people to only use on offense is a veers/troopers squad, and most guilds don't have a a lot of players with those geared up. Unless you're in a really strong guild, nightsisters should absolutely be set on defense

@Tuftedpaper85
You are incorrect.
Troopers are absolutely not the only reliable counter to NS teams.

I also strongly disagree that chaze are best used for defense.

JTR can be strong on both for sure.

My guild is 100m gp, and in our TB and in my shard, what you are saying is not valid.

@Tuftedpaper85
You wrote:
"The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you won't make that mistake again because he won't face your guild again lol."

You seem to be missing the point.
1- If some noob who has never fought nightsisters before wastes 7 teams it doesnt mean that they are good on defense against experienced players
2- that same noob, and the thousands like him who you will face this time or next time, will learn not to waste bad teams
3- if you are relying on rookie mistakes to win tb, then get ready to lose

"Tuftedpaper85;c-1437131" wrote:

"Mobewan;c-1437087" wrote:
Saying an NS team held against 7 teams trying to knock out your team slowly means nothing. They were definitely trash teams that wouldnt have affected the outcome. The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you wont make that mistake again.

On defense, a guild will have so many effective answers to ns teams, from chaze to jtr to boba/dn to troopers.

On offense, you should be able to beat a team that has a higher GP.

A 60k ns team with MT zeta can handle any meta 100k gp team.

As others have said, if they are very highly geared, the ns can be split to handle 2 meta squads.

Without a doubt, ns are better on offense.

The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you won't make that mistake again because he won't face your guild again lol.

Chaze teams are best set on defense, as are JTR. The only team that is a reliable counter to nightsisters that you can expect people to only use on offense is a veers/troopers squad, and most guilds don't have a a lot of players with those geared up. Unless you're in a really strong guild, nightsisters should absolutely be set on defense

I wrote a comment to @JohnnySteelAlpha that needed to approve and wasn't, lol.
Anyway : johnny, the loss of troopers vs NS is because they aren't fully ready. Team of NS+GK is common in high arena, and as such, they'll have god tier modding. If the troopers don't have good enough modding aswell - yes, they'll lose. Gotta have a fast starck.
And ofc, a bit counter that can be used is chaze, or at least chirrut.
So I think that it's mostly a human mistake, losing to NS. If you know the counters and know what you have in hands, you can beat them. They not feel like superior defense, not anymore. The players learnt them.
And for tufted -
I don't agree with the statement of "most guilds don't have troopers". There are more zVeers Zetas than MT L / AV L Zetas. Storm is godly tank in empire team, snow is the most free character ever, veers easy to get, Starck is a must-farm and in stores. Even magma is farmable and used to be useful for Zader team for rancor. Yeah sure, DT and shore are hard to get (and they are key to beat NS+GK) but if that's the case - I think that there's no GK for the rivals, and NS+GK is even harder to get. And zVeers with snow can beat "weak-medium" NS without DT/Shore, so I think it's easier to build good trooper team than good NS team - cheaper and more f2p friendly.
Higher tier guilds also have Hoda, which is a huge counter to NS.
Clones also counter for NS if your Rex is fast enough, and especially if no GK there.
DN L siths counters even NS+GK. (But again, as mentioned before, if they are arena-modded, you'll need some good mods there)
And of course, murderbears (need chirpa and EE) with equivalent gear and modding should do the work.

"ewqewqc;c-1437320" wrote:

"Tuftedpaper85;c-1437131" wrote:

"Mobewan;c-1437087" wrote:
Saying an NS team held against 7 teams trying to knock out your team slowly means nothing. They were definitely trash teams that wouldnt have affected the outcome. The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you wont make that mistake again.

On defense, a guild will have so many effective answers to ns teams, from chaze to jtr to boba/dn to troopers.

On offense, you should be able to beat a team that has a higher GP.

A 60k ns team with MT zeta can handle any meta 100k gp team.

As others have said, if they are very highly geared, the ns can be split to handle 2 meta squads.

Without a doubt, ns are better on offense.

The player who wasted his 7 scrub teams on you won't make that mistake again because he won't face your guild again lol.

Chaze teams are best set on defense, as are JTR. The only team that is a reliable counter to nightsisters that you can expect people to only use on offense is a veers/troopers squad, and most guilds don't have a a lot of players with those geared up. Unless you're in a really strong guild, nightsisters should absolutely be set on defense

I wrote a comment to @JohnnySteelAlpha that needed to approve and wasn't, lol.
Anyway : johnny, the loss of troopers vs NS is because they aren't fully ready. Team of NS+GK is common in high arena, and as such, they'll have god tier modding. If the troopers don't have good enough modding aswell - yes, they'll lose. Gotta have a fast starck.
And ofc, a bit counter that can be used is chaze, or at least chirrut.
So I think that it's mostly a human mistake, losing to NS. If you know the counters and know what you have in hands, you can beat them. They not feel like superior defense, not anymore. The players learnt them.
And for tufted -
I don't agree with the statement of "most guilds don't have troopers". There are more zVeers Zetas than MT L / AV L Zetas. Storm is godly tank in empire team, snow is the most free character ever, veers easy to get, Starck is a must-farm and in stores. Even magma is farmable and used to be useful for Zader team for rancor. Yeah sure, DT and shore are hard to get (and they are key to beat NS+GK) but if that's the case - I think that there's no GK for the rivals, and NS+GK is even harder to get. And zVeers with snow can beat "weak-medium" NS without DT/Shore, so I think it's easier to build good trooper team than good NS team - cheaper and more f2p friendly.
Higher tier guilds also have Hoda, which is a huge counter to NS.
Clones also counter for NS if your Rex is fast enough, and especially if no GK there.
DN L siths counters even NS+GK. (But again, as mentioned before, if they are arena-modded, you'll need some good mods there)
And of course, murderbears (need chirpa and EE) with equivalent gear and modding should do the work.

All logical arguments and there's nothing wrong there...but I'm just telling you actual info from very recent TWs. NS + GK and a maxed Zombie are very difficult for guilds as a whole to defeat an entire slice of elite-modded NS even using the teams referenced. We are facing the #2 GP guild (172.7mm GP) this TW and I'll be surprised if they're not using NS / GK / Maxed zombie on D as well.

I know bro. I have some NS+GK arena teams in my shard. Once they are arena modded, with highly geared zombie, and have Zetas on unique of MT Av and Leadership... This is whole different story. But this is not ordinary NS team. This is arena team that will require arena team to beat.
Hardly the case in the post I believe. The general talk here is towards lower geared NS or lower modding and how they perform on def vs off.
If I find a team like this in TW, I'll leave it for someone else, or use a team to kill GK and then go on it, since my troopers can't beat it, and my arena team guys is split into defense. Don't think I'll see terrirory with 25 of those specific teams, and if those team will become real meta, people will be prepared to beat it. If I would have that kind of power on my NS, I'd put on defense aswell.
My point is - these teams aren't "NS teams" that should get the treatment of troopers/other counters to NS, they are different level - "arena teams" , and should treated as such. Chaze + Strong CLS / God-like troopers.