Something to think about (regarding My First Pet Stuff)

"happyopi;c-16368886" wrote:

"hmae123;c-16368671" wrote:
i actually like the idea of expanding slightly on a EP or GP with a smaller and cheaper pack. I wish they’d do it for more packs actually. I’d love a pack that adds another active career to GTW or a pack that adds new food/restaurant types to Dine Out. If you’re really into a certain theme this allows you to expand even more.

This gives me a lot of hope supernaturals too. I was afraid if/when they add witches or werewolves they wouldn’t interact with vampires any different then other sims, but if they can connect a EP with a SP that shows they can do the same with more supernatural packs.

This idea can also give someone a chance to try out a theme. Like if you want to dip your toes in and see what you think of pets you can start with small pets while deciding if you want to add cats and dogs.

Backward compatibility is good and something I want to see more of (like herbalism/jungle adventure).
Content purposefully omitted to be sold later is the opposite of good.
There is no new gameplay that would mesh well with c&d, just objects that should have been in it in the first place.

The only new gameplay is small rodents, which afaik is merely an animated object and so far removed from actual cats&dogs gameplay, how is that a preview in any way ?

I never felt like Cats and Dogs was lacking, I was actually really happy with it, and I wasn’t one that wanted pets but found them to be really fun. I still have a lot to explore from the EP actually.

Stuff packs don’t usually add much gameplay. Usually one gameplay feature and bunch of stuff so I do feel it’s right in line with any other stuff pack, and IMO better cause it adds more features and stuff to an EP i enjoy. Plus the coffee table fish tank is just cool. I’d pay ten dollars just for that object.

The small pets won’t be exactly the same as having cats and dogs but it does give an idea to the player of taking care of a pet.

My only one small issue is that fish should require some care. It’s always bugged me that we can’t feed them or clean their tanks out.

"filipomel;c-16369609" wrote:
I feel like if they advertised this new stuff pack as a stand alone stuff pack with *bonus content* for pets then things wouldn't have gotten so heated. If Simguru Graham is being honest when he says the pet items are on top of the normal amount of items, then that means we're getting a lot more than normal, and of course you'd need Cats and Dogs to take advantage of those extra items.

I think that’s right on. Wording is everything.

"filipomel;c-16369609" wrote:
I feel like if they advertised this new stuff pack as a stand alone stuff pack with *bonus content* for pets then things wouldn't have gotten so heated. If Simguru Graham is being honest when he says the pet items are on top of the normal amount of items, then that means we're getting a lot more than normal, and of course you'd need Cats and Dogs to take advantage of those extra items.

I have to disagree because that "bonus content" would still be gated behind a $10 stuff pack, and people would still feel it should be patched in, due to the low amount of pet objects in the Expansion.

"LiELF;c-16370207" wrote:

"filipomel;c-16369609" wrote:
I feel like if they advertised this new stuff pack as a stand alone stuff pack with *bonus content* for pets then things wouldn't have gotten so heated. If Simguru Graham is being honest when he says the pet items are on top of the normal amount of items, then that means we're getting a lot more than normal, and of course you'd need Cats and Dogs to take advantage of those extra items.

I have to disagree because that "bonus content" would still be gated behind a $10 stuff pack, and people would still feel it should be patched in, due to the low amount of pet objects in the Expansion.

All I said is that things wouldn't have been so bad if they advertised the stuff pack differently. I mean for example "New Stuff Pack with Bonus Content for Cats and Dogs," vs "Do you have Cats and Dogs? Get ready for more!" Which sounds more appealing to you? Obviously the one that mentions bonus content, the bonus content being if you own both packs you're getting more in the end AKA better value for your money, because you're getting bonus content when owning both packs. Advertising is everything, if they advertised the new stuff pack as its own stuff pack without a dependency on Cats and Dogs people wouldn't have been so mad, except for maybe those people saying "The stuff in that Stuff Pack should've been in the EP," which I disagree with because you can say that about any almost any Stuff Pack to fit in almost any EP or GP. It's almost as if people forget that the developers have a certain amount of resources to work with, certain limits too. If the developers could, I am 100% certain that they would put anything the community could possibly want all in one pack, but that's not how the world works.

"LiELF;c-16370207" wrote:

"filipomel;c-16369609" wrote:
I feel like if they advertised this new stuff pack as a stand alone stuff pack with *bonus content* for pets then things wouldn't have gotten so heated. If Simguru Graham is being honest when he says the pet items are on top of the normal amount of items, then that means we're getting a lot more than normal, and of course you'd need Cats and Dogs to take advantage of those extra items.

I have to disagree because that "bonus content" would still be gated behind a $10 stuff pack, and people would still feel it should be patched in, due to the low amount of pet objects in the Expansion.

Im actually very suprised so many feel Cats and Dogs was lacking in items. I actually found this pack to be really fleshed out. I’ve been let down by other packs feeling like they were limited, but this one is quite full.

It’s funny because pets was the one pack I was least excited about and it’s become my favorite one yet. I love all the things you can do and how your pet can be trained once it ages. I like how there is different pet toys and stuff of different sizes to fit your house. I like that the pets can runaway and come home again. And the food and fish stand in the bay was a great touch. My
Sims love them some lobster rolls! So many things still to explore here. I can’t say it wasn’t worth the money or was lacking anything. So I think it’s super cool that we’re getting even more items for our cats and dogs, while getting a new pet type, plus a new sickness and death (that’s gonna be a blast for certain deviant players like myself)

"JimG72;c-16368223" wrote:
It's pretty much a basic principle of video game economics.....if something doesn't sell, then they won't keep doing it. Given how far in advance EPs and even SPs are developed, I'd assume they did enough market research prior to development on Cats & Dogs and this SP to know their expected sales would make it worth their time.

I'm actually okay with separating out small pets from Cats & Dogs -- that way if people can't run the EP due to not having high enough computer specs or not having the money for the EP (especially those countries that got hit with pretty heavy price adjustments), they'll still have access to small animals (in this case hamsters and other related cage animals) at a decent price point. My objection is that those people end up paying for content that they can't use (the C&D specific items). I guess players could maybe take the food bowl and such and maybe use MOO to add items for decor, but not sure if that would work. Just doesn't feel right to me to include items that you need another pack to actually make operational; might have felt better to maybe parcel the items out in a series of patches, or maybe some sort of "mini-pack".

I think some of the outrage is caused by current situation in gaming industry (konami, battlefront). Players become much more cautious about paying for game content and afraid of simply beeing befool

"hmae123;c-16370373" wrote:

"LiELF;c-16370207" wrote:

"filipomel;c-16369609" wrote:
I feel like if they advertised this new stuff pack as a stand alone stuff pack with *bonus content* for pets then things wouldn't have gotten so heated. If Simguru Graham is being honest when he says the pet items are on top of the normal amount of items, then that means we're getting a lot more than normal, and of course you'd need Cats and Dogs to take advantage of those extra items.

I have to disagree because that "bonus content" would still be gated behind a $10 stuff pack, and people would still feel it should be patched in, due to the low amount of pet objects in the Expansion.

Im actually very suprised so many feel Cats and Dogs was lacking in items. I actually found this pack to be really fleshed out. I’ve been let down by other packs feeling like they were limited, but this one is quite full.

It’s funny because pets was the one pack I was least excited about and it’s become my favorite one yet. I love all the things you can do and how your pet can be trained once it ages. I like how there is different pet toys and stuff of different sizes to fit your house. I like that the pets can runaway and come home again. And the food and fish stand in the bay was a great touch. My
Sims love them some lobster rolls! So many things still to explore here. I can’t say it wasn’t worth the money or was lacking anything. So I think it’s super cool that we’re getting even more items for our cats and dogs, while getting a new pet type, plus a new sickness and death (that’s gonna be a blast for certain deviant players like myself)

I too also believe Cats and Dogs to be one of the fuller Expansions. I mean all of the new features in that pack go into so much depth with one another, the cats and dogs themselves add certain benefits/challenges to your household and depending on their traits the benefits/challenges will be different, for example loyal dogs give more aspiration points than dogs without the trait when you select the interaction 'Feel the Love," the vet ties in so well with the pets themselves in the sense that your pets actually get ill and need to be taken care of (that's in addition to being able to run your own vet), and the new world ties in so well with the pets and the interactivity the pets have in the new world, cats and dogs can explore bushes, dig through fish piles, dig up holes, chase birds, cats can climb around everywhere. Almost every single feature has an incredible amount of depth to it and that's exactly what I want from an Expansion. I don't care how much content there is in a pack, content is nothing if there is a lack of depth, and Cats and Dogs has a lot of depth. Yet people still complain that Cats and Dogs is 'lacking' just because there are only two pet beds (when in reality any surface that a cat or dog can lay upon is their bed) or that there aren't enough pet objects, when there's actually a whole bunch, all the cat condos, the various amount of food bowls, the various amounts of litter boxes some of which have different functionality, the obstacle course equipment, "but there's only two toys, the ball and the cat wand," but functionally the ball is almost the same as pet toys from previous games, dogs can chew on the ball, cats can pounce on the ball, dogs can pick up the ball, bring it to your sim and beg to play fetch, what more does a pet need from a toy? Anyways done with my rant, if anything the new My First Pet Stuff Pack gets me excited for the future because it essentially confirms that Cats and Dogs can be further expanded in future packs, a first for the series, that means with future packs they can possibly add new toys, gameplay or interactions involving pets, all this beyond the base foundation of pets (the foundation in my opinion being quite solid as I've already explained), this means by the end of the series Cats and Dogs will be the most expanded pets pack out of the entire series, which gets me super pumped.

"filipomel;c-16370371" wrote:

"LiELF;c-16370207" wrote:

"filipomel;c-16369609" wrote:
I feel like if they advertised this new stuff pack as a stand alone stuff pack with *bonus content* for pets then things wouldn't have gotten so heated. If Simguru Graham is being honest when he says the pet items are on top of the normal amount of items, then that means we're getting a lot more than normal, and of course you'd need Cats and Dogs to take advantage of those extra items.

I have to disagree because that "bonus content" would still be gated behind a $10 stuff pack, and people would still feel it should be patched in, due to the low amount of pet objects in the Expansion.

All I said is that things wouldn't have been so bad if they advertised the stuff pack differently. I mean for example "New Stuff Pack with Bonus Content for Cats and Dogs," vs "Do you have Cats and Dogs? Get ready for more!" Which sounds more appealing to you? Obviously the one that mentions bonus content, the bonus content being if you own both packs you're getting more in the end AKA better value for your money, because you're getting bonus content when owning both packs. Advertising is everything, if they advertised the new stuff pack as its own stuff pack without a dependency on Cats and Dogs people wouldn't have been so mad, except for maybe those people saying "The stuff in that Stuff Pack should've been in the EP," which I disagree with because you can say that about any almost any Stuff Pack to fit in almost any EP or GP. It's almost as if people forget that the developers have a certain amount of resources to work with, certain limits too. If the developers could, I am 100% certain that they would put anything the community could possibly want all in one pack, but that's not how the world works.

I do get what you're saying about the advertising, but personally, I would still just see that as a marketing manipulation because it would mean that a player would still have to dish out extra money to get some of the things that were scant in the expansion, "bonus" or not.

I also totally get the problem with budget and resources, and I don't think anyone is trying to blame the developers, we are blaming EA, because they are the ones who control the budget and call the shots. And why wouldn't they prioritize a budget and give more leeway to the Sims franchise, which has been an ongoing top PC game? Well, I can only guess corporate greed and lack of any concern for their player base. That's essentially the issue that people are seeing here. The developers are tied to whatever restrictions the parent company has chained them to, and it's noticeable. Even the devs themselves sound apologetic and sometimes frustrated when they talk about the limitations. But they aren't really in a position to be able to change it. So the "fight" isn't about slave-driving the developers, it's about making the big, rich, capitalistic EA company accountable for trying to sponge excessive amounts of money out of their customers in exchange for minimal product. I know it sounds almost conspiratorial and excessive, and honestly, I haven't been on any crusade for this up until this specific pack. I have always supported the Stuff packs and the Game packs and I have no problem showing excitement over a new release when something comes out that I really look forward to. But I also don't hold back to say so if I think something is wrong.

As for Cats and Dogs, I bought it on release. I love it myself. I think the Cats are the best they've ever been, and as a cat person, I'm extremely happy to have them. I adore Brindleton Bay and it's one of my top favorite maps because it reminds me of my home area in New England. I was out there in the Expansion Pack forum, sharing excitement when this pack was coming out. I love the furniture, the CAS, and the create-a-pet, and I have a blast playing around with it. Even the Veterinary business is more fun than I expected. But I still think that the pet objects fell short. I was surprised, actually, considering how great everything else was, and it seemed a little weird to me that they wouldn't give us more variety with those things, because we were told they cut out all other animals for the sole purpose of focusing more on cats and dogs. If the expansion pack was cut down to only two animals, it would only make sense to include more of the objects for those animals. It just didn't make a lot of sense to leave that section incomplete. But, of course, we come to this new Stuff Pack only four months later, and it's very obvious to me now why that was.

To be completely honest, I want to be excited for this new Stuff Pack. I really, really do. I would love to have the rodents and the new disease and danger plaguing my Sims. That's right up my alley, believe me. But when I watched that trailer, all I could see was EA waving my own money in my face, saying, "Ha ha, we got ours! You want the rest of these objects? You'll have to give us more!" And with only one pet type in a stuff pack, that bodes of a bazillion more coming with each of the other animal types, until we've all dished out more than two Expansion Packs worth of money to have them all. I just expected the small pets to come all together in a game pack or something.

I really don't think I'm being unreasonable with my viewpoint. I'm not trying to demand that every new pet should be free, or that they belonged in Cats and Dogs, because I totally get why they weren't included. That part makes sense to me. But I do strongly believe that we should have received more than the bare minimum of objects for our cats and dogs to make it complete, and the sudden offer of some of those things only a few short months later just leaves a really bad taste in my mouth over it all. I mean, if we had gotten more pet bed designs and cushions and dog houses and bowls and bones and all of that, I could even accept the addition of pet outfits being an ongoing Stuff Pack offer for those who want them, because it would be similar to getting new Sim outfits. But it all just reeks of something that was planned out way ahead to take advantage of one of their most popular (and in-demand) expansions, and they just took it too far.

Trust me, I loathed the store as much as anyone else and never spent any money on it. But it IS different because the EPs from ts3 didn't feel completely empty and lacking. I didn't care about a crystal ball when I had so much to explore in the Expansion itself. THAT is the big difference.

In ts3, the store content wasn't needed for a full and fleshed out game. I also never bought stuff packs bc I never felt like I needed them.

In ts4, we take everything bc we are desperate for new gameplay. The game packs are usually ok, but expansions have all been awful. I love the sims 4 as a sequal, but it's so empty. I feel like there are not enough surprises, not enough options and avenues because the previous iterations of the game became more and more rich and content heavy each time.

It's just not the case anymore. And I'm tired of being called a hater for being disappointed in the progress of my favorite game. I want too love it and I thought with toddlers and vampires that maybe things were getting better, but I was wrong.

EA remains the worst at customer service and the best at being completely money hungry.