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Patchnotes 19.1 PTE

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  • is it possible to add rep time cheat?
  • Alright community,

    we are preparing a patch for PTE tomorrow, around 08:00 UTC.
    This will finally bring the announced changes in from the beginning of this thread to PTE, together with some changes to the loot distribution for base-kills. I updated the original posting with an explanation.

    What that means is: If multiple players attack a base, the loot for the kill will not be equal to the total remaining value of the base anymore but based upon the % of damage done by the killer (in total, counting battles by everyone with that base, auto-repair is also factored in) to the defensive units.
    There is no split of the side pot, the killer takes their share and goes home, the rest is lost to the ashes. So everyone else only gets to keep what they managed to loot during their attacks respectively.

    This should significantly impact the effectiveness of people exploiting multi-accounts excessively and increase the amount of effort it takes in combination with the changes to substitutions.

    We are also going to wipe PTE and reinstate the two PTE commands for testing.


    Can you explain why you must send the rest of the loot to the ashes instead of sending the remaining % to the rest of the accounts that helped to kill the base ? This way you would encourage the team work instead you are discouraging it with this way. I mean , this small important detail imho will not affect at all your try to reduce the effectiveness of the alts , still if the alt do all the work and a main account kills the base will get what it deserves nearly 0 according of what you have described
    Why someone to kill a base with someone else if in fact this mean that from now on both accounts will be in lose lose situation .
    Yes kill the multis that killing the game but killing the team work will also kills the game
  • Van_DiSarzio
    17 posts Member
    edited January 19
    I posted an idea very similar to this last year on the feedback and suggestions forum. I have no idea if this change is the result of that post, or you thought of it independently.

    I would suggest the total amount of resource looted should be the same as it was before.

    The only thing different should be the distribution part. Anyone contributing to the attack should get their fair share, according to the total amount of damage they do to the defence.

    So if player X does 74% of the total damage to the defence, at the point the base is killed, X gets 74% of the final loot, even if they don't deal the killing shot.

    This prevents the practice of using alts to weaken bases, since the alts would end up with more of the resource than the main.

    It would also encourage teamplay since it no longer matters who gets the 'kill' at the end. Since every attacker would get their fair share, even if they just give a couple of hits. In fact with this system, you could spend all your CP/RT just helping other people kill bases, with one or two hits, and still end up with the same resource as if you killed a base on your own. This would do wonders for teamwork.

    Am I to understand this is indeed what the changes do?

    Where does this 'lost to ashes' part come into it?

    It almost sounds like the only the person who gets loot is the one who gets the kill shot (at the new diminished rate), and the rest get nothing? I fear this would have the exact opposite effect of what I suggested and actually encourage people to go solo on bases.

    Many thanks
    Post edited by Van_DiSarzio on
  • Soixie
    392 posts Member
    edited January 20

    Can you explain why you must send the rest of the loot to the ashes ...


    Was previously explained, short version is there is nomalized scenario whereby anyone should have to use multiple accounts to clear a base. You or your alliance is advancing too fast to center, period. You or your alliance should be able to solo a forgotten on your own within a couple of hits. Removing resources is a part of that. The sole purpose of removing a forgotten base 10+ levels above you is to advance on a POI (or center) and has nothing to do with resources.
  • Soixie
    392 posts Member
    edited January 20
    I posted an idea very similar to this last year on the feedback and suggestions forum. I have no idea if this change is the result of that post, or you thought of it independently....

    No, it came from an explosion of drama and people playing the game to the maximum possible with near unlimited funds vs. those less skilled without funds as well as as previously stated throughout this thread; the purpose of the change is to in fact further de-incentivize multiple accounts from cooperating. Still confused? You can start here, there are another dozen threads like it floating around.

    There is no normalized scenario whereby anyone should have to use multiple accounts to clear a base. You or your alliance is advancing too fast to center, period. You or your alliance should be able to solo a forgotten on your own within a couple of hits. Removing resources is a part of that. The sole purpose of removing a forgotten base 10+ levels above you is to advance on a POI (or center) and has nothing to do with resources.

    Also as previously stated, if you're chasing 5-50% loot share off an attack, you're simply playing the game wrong.
  • Personally, the developers should have simply added the following code;

    If not fortress and more than 1 account attacks, no loot shall be provided of any kind.
  • Soixie wrote: »
    Personally, the developers should have simply added the following code;

    If not fortress and more than 1 account attacks, no loot shall be provided of any kind.

    Uff, completely disagree.
    When starting a new world all the components of the alliance participate in destroying objectives together, sometimes a couple of players and sometimes six or seven.
    The best option would be to distribute the resources obtained among those who participated in the attack, although this may require a significant modification of the code to keep track of who and how much damage was done.
    The volume of resources that can be plundered has been reduced in its day, but leaving everyone without a reward for destroying objectives (whether bases, camps or outposts) is unfair.
    If there is no prize, the idea of joint work will be lost, as is already happening in the new economy worlds for some time ago.
    Not a part of EA / Envision teams - My comments are only mine.
  • So easy kills with cy exposed for maybe 1 or 2 shots will mean you would have to kill entire defense to get all the loot.
  • So easy kills with cy exposed for maybe 1 or 2 shots will mean you would have to kill entire defense to get all the loot.

    no
  • Uncle_J00
    11 posts Member
    edited January 21
    So I tested some things earlier on PTE:

    1. Killing a base solo works fine as it should: 100% Loot
    2. On the 2nd base I killed 100% defence + DF with an Alt and got 1/3 of total loot for killing Def (seems normal)
    This was the maximal loot from the base: https://prnt.sc/m9sx0j
    (To be clear: It seems all Simulators (Ingame & Script) are not updated for the latest patch, because they can't calculate the amount of resources right if two or more players are attacking.)
    Afterwards I sent my Verts on CY line to kill the 2 buildings in front of it.
    Instead of 120k Tib as my Simulator said I got only this: https://prnt.sc/m9t16c
    This seems to contradict @EE_Elephterion statement, as I also got no resources from the buildings.
    (It wasn't actually 0% as it should be, but ~10% of the loot without patch should be fine to work against multis)
    the question is: What u will get out of the other buildings, when just 1 % of the defence is left. For axample in a tiberium silo ist 1.5 million tib , you will get the whole 1.5 million out of it or just 1 % of 1.5 million ?
    if u get the whole 1.5 million out of it they will kill all the other buildings first , then they kill the cy at last, so u loose nearly nothing but some more cp....
    That extra amount of CP and time that needs to be invested on the scale we see with the multi account exploiting is not insignificant.

    I think it's even better that you don't get resources out of buildings if you have not killed a proportion of the defence, as it is now on PTE.
    Tried it again with killing buildings instead of CY with my main account and got about 1/3 (?) of the loot I would get without the patch. https://prnt.sc/m9uclk

    Then I made an attack with my Alt but it also got way less resources now even it killed 100% defence before. https://prnt.sc/m9udiu

    So I'm not actually sure how the exact calculation works, maybe it's still a bit buggy, but it should definitely work fine against Multiaccounts.

    Personally I really prefer the idea of @Van_DiSarzio.
    I posted an idea very similar to this last year on the feedback and suggestions forum. I have no idea if this change is the result of that post, or you thought of it independently.

    I would suggest the total amount of resource looted should be the same as it was before.

    The only thing different should be the distribution part. Anyone contributing to the attack should get their fair share, according to the total amount of damage they do to the defence.

    So if player X does 74% of the total damage to the defence, at the point the base is killed, X gets 74% of the final loot, even if they don't deal the killing shot.

    As he says that way multis will be stopped/won't be worth the time anymore and teamwork will be even more attractive.
    All buildings should give no resources and when CY is killed every involved player gets the percentage of resources of the total Defence-damage he made.
    Of course there are always disadvantages, like e.g. your enemy doesn't get all resources if he achieves to steal the base you are shooting, but to me it seems like the best solution so far.

    Just my two cents^^
    Uncle



    Post edited by Uncle_J00 on
  • There are three problems with the current update:
    1. There is a bug with selling units (as well as sometimes when switching targets during attack) that crashes the game and forces you to reload, this must be fixed before it is applied to normal worlds.
    Hopefully this is fixable.
    2. There is a reporting problem whereas every time more than one person is attacking a forgotten base, all the reporting done by the simulator (built-in or any script) is wrong, by orders of magnitude. It simply lies to you how much you are getting out of your attack. This is not right. Everybody using the simulator would feel deceived (and rightly so) every time this happens.
    3. Team work is strongly punished. Let's say two people decide to kill a forgotten base together, and take turns. What is going to happen? On the first turn the first player will get what he earned. But starting from second shot every player will be getting only half of what s/he earned. This will continue until the base is killed. In the end the first player gets about 1/4 of the base's value, and the second player gets 1/4 of the base's value, and the remaining 1/2 of the base simply is wasted and nobody gets that. This is such a huge loss that any collaboration on killing bases is just prohibitively inefficient (and the simulator lies to you, so you do not even know that you get only half of the earned resources until you look inside your base to realize that). You know that the way people learn the game is by taking turns in killing forgotten bases. Can you imagine their frustration? Who would ever want to play such a game?
  • Bollekone
    2 posts Member
    edited January 21
    You want the players to help you with the test of the PTE without repair that is very bad
  • Bollekone wrote: »
    You want the players to help you with the test of the PTE without repair that is very bad

    yes, RT cheat needed.
  • "RT cheat enable" is used by some players of the PTE world to attack continuously the small players who enter to see news in that world and to be able to help in the tests.
    As they are continuously destroyed, they end up abandoning that world and do not help in carrying out user tests.
    Example: usability of the game in other languages
    Not a part of EA / Envision teams - My comments are only mine.
  • Soixie wrote: »
    Personally, the developers should have simply added the following code;

    If not fortress and more than 1 account attacks, no loot shall be provided of any kind.

    Uff, completely disagree....

    No, I get the perspective from that side of the fence and respect it. However, this is a business. If players need resources they should farm. Attacking an enemy (PVE or PVP) is about conquering or obtaining objectives and absolutely nothing about loot. Actually, in some instances it is. There are numerous examples in which 5 players can attack a forgotten base 10-20 levels above them and they shall receive more loot than if they farmed their own camps. This goes against game design, it's that simple. If players want to farm, then farm. If they want to advance, then advance, but the two shall not meet. The developers are tired of those complaining and those complaining are tired of what they falsely believe are exploits.

    I'll state it again though, it blows my mind we're discussing "shared resource calculations". 500m? 2.3G? Upgrades cost 100G power or more. It's like two 8 year olds fighting over a $10 allowance when they have rent to pay every month. I get it and the developers get it, there is some massive race to center to war and try and beat the fortress with level 40 units. Simply not going to happen.

  • gamerdruid
    2609 posts Moderator
    Bollekone wrote: »
    You want the players to help you with the test of the PTE without repair that is very bad

    They've now issued 2d increase in cap. and some instant repair crates. It will help. As you know, on the PTE, some play simply to kill the fortress and not to test and will do it in anyway possible using auto-clickers and any script they can write or use to enable faster progress, even when such methods have been explicitly forbidden.
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • Soixie wrote: »
    Soixie wrote: »
    Personally, the developers should have simply added the following code;

    If not fortress and more than 1 account attacks, no loot shall be provided of any kind.

    Uff, completely disagree....

    No, I get the perspective from that side of the fence and respect it. However, this is a business. If players need resources they should farm. Attacking an enemy (PVE or PVP) is about conquering or obtaining objectives and absolutely nothing about loot. Actually, in some instances it is. There are numerous examples in which 5 players can attack a forgotten base 10-20 levels above them and they shall receive more loot than if they farmed their own camps. This goes against game design, it's that simple. If players want to farm, then farm. If they want to advance, then advance, but the two shall not meet. The developers are tired of those complaining and those complaining are tired of what they falsely believe are exploits.

    I'll state it again though, it blows my mind we're discussing "shared resource calculations". 500m? 2.3G? Upgrades cost 100G power or more. It's like two 8 year olds fighting over a $10 allowance when they have rent to pay every month. I get it and the developers get it, there is some massive race to center to war and try and beat the fortress with level 40 units. Simply not going to happen.

    have u ever Played a world with no Moral? there ist absolutely normal to kill bases to get ressources and its much more effective than farming! doesnt matter if the world is with or without FA. Firestorm 10 for example, we lilled the first fortress with maximun lvl 41or 42 offenses in less than 15 hits....

  • Uncle_J00
    11 posts Member
    edited January 21
    Can the Devs maybe explain how the resources you get are calculated?
    Until now I thought if you make e.g. 13% total defence damage with an alt and kill the base with the remaining 87% defence left, you should get 87% of all resources when klilling the CY. But my results have shown that it's way less (in that case I only got 46% of the remaining resources and the rest was lost).

    I expected there to be a constant factor dependent on the total Defence damage an account made/defence value after the attack (DF heals the units back to 70% after first hit, if not killed) and the percentage of loot you get and the remaining loot.
    But after more tests on PTE and many calculations the result is always different, it seems completely random. The only thing I can say for sure, is that you always get less ressources in comparison to the damage you made. As soon as 2 players are shooting a base, the one who finishes gets way less resources than he should according to my understanding of the patch notes.

    Sure this will prevent the abusing of multi accounts and thats good but it will also completely destroy shooting bases in teams in your alliance. As soon as someone makes just one attack to help e.g. killing the DF, most of the resources will be lost and the one who finishes gets hardly anything!

    So much for now

    Uncle





    Post edited by Uncle_J00 on
  • on the rt cheat: please keep it disabled!
    the pte is for testing, not for fortress (unless the changes in the patches tested are about fortress, and now they are not)
    with rt cheat the fortress bully crowd runs rampant and kills everybody making it impossible to do proper testing

    on the forgotten base spoils: they are crucial for fast growth on a no-morale server, they determine the winner of any server (well before offenses get to even level 45)
    they also shift the balance between digging and farming
    the whole reason people hate morale servers is because morale makes it mostly about who can farm more efficiently, and farming is boring and makes you compete with your comrades, thus killing team spirit
    the current patch does work against one scenario: when one account pre-hits with multiple attacks, and then another finishes off, but it has huge unintended consequences for any teamwork
    if you punish teamwork by a patch like this one, it essentially kills the team spirit anyways, making the game more focused on solo work
    I think there must be some redistribution of the spoils (instead of burning them) to make this patch work
    There are, however, some issues with how to split spoils between bases that are dead, or locked by attack, or other cases like that
  • One thing that stands out for me is Ok to get all from a Base you are best to go it alone
    That way you get Max Return, BUT for Many that COULD mean using more CP and Repair Time
    So those who do not finance are Pushed out as often 100cp and 12 hours repair is not enough,
    And its begin to smell of EA trying to make a Buck by pushing People into Buying CP and Repair
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