EA Forums - Banner

Patchnotes 19.1 PTE

Replies

  • aewarren22
    16 posts Member
    edited January 30
    gamerdruid wrote: »

    I did say on the last PTE - i acknowledge its usefulness would be severely limited on a production world.

    I think that one script's actual usefulness is almost beside the point. The larger problem it demonstrates is that teams are still exploring new and more innovative ways to cheat and exploit the game. It's only been very recently that some of the scripts the german teams developed in the last few years have finally leaked out to the larger community. Meaning they've been giving themselves an advantage with it for a long time. In a year, the new scripts currently being developed by them will finally leak out, and more players will realize just how much the game has been rigged against them.

    And yeah, cheat scripts are nothing new, but it probably wouldn't be as big of a deal as it's become if EA hadn't gone after all the other exploits that some teams tried to use to level the playing field (multi-accounting, locking, etc.). By taking those away but not dealing with cheat scripts, they're basically playing favorites with certain teams.
    Post edited by aewarren22 on
  • gamerdruid wrote: »
    ...
    @Soixie - cheat scripts are nothing new - since the very early days of home computer games they have existed. Assuming I don't know how to code from what I have posted seems a leap in the dark!

    Was directed at aewarren22, someone naive enough to bring up a **** 10 year old dead horse about script cheating like it's some new issue that needs to be addressed. It's not an issue on any wild imaginative level.
  • I do not see the scripts as a problem, I follow all the worlds and I do not see anyone doing anything that can not be done by any player with a bit of ability and a minimum of time.

    the scripts do not act in the programming of the game, but in simple automatic functions in your browser, as it would be impossible (and if possible illegal) EA and its employees intervene in the personal computers of their clients, the scripts will continue to exist and a scenario without them I would consider it as utopian.

    as for the scripts of fraud, yes they exist, were tested several in the last test world, I even tested in other worlds

    1- funds cheat scripts there are more tests 2 times and both the account was excluded within a maximum of 2 days, point to the game!

    2- There is also a cheat script for command points but as no one has yet managed to defraud the repair time it practically does not give the advantage because with a good attack management strategy the attack capabilities for any player with a good knowledge of the game follow quietly.

    3- The auto-farm also exists is a script that is included in the CnCTA SoO package available in the chrome web store and if I am not mistaken in the Center Driven package too, I leave it disabled because I see no use in it.
    nowadays fast forward is paramount and stand still attacking a base that gives you enough recourse in one or two attacks to expect it to recover and do again is a very time-consuming cycle and with little return near what is gained by advancing quickly.

    4 - there was a script that for me is one of the best made and effective to date, I used it for a short time and it really aligned its attack removing the maximum of resources and points of investigation and at the same time keeping CY, but over time it stopped working and never heard of anything like it again, I believe the developers managed to find some way to block the feature, point to the game again!

    this was all several other features that are perfectly replicable without the use of scripts.

    The only thing that gives a real advantage today is to be a multi-player account, and if it were not so many people would not waste so much time using multiple accounts.

    NOTE: we also have to understand that the tiberium alliances version is not a great return platform compared to any other EA game so it is understandable the precarious support to the game and its monitoring.

    I really like this version of the game and I hope it evolves to grow and survive for years!


    S3r4ph1M
  • gamerdruid
    2590 posts Moderator
    PvPanzer wrote: »
    I do not see the scripts as a problem, I follow all the worlds and I do not see anyone doing anything that can not be done by any player with a bit of ability and a minimum of time.

    the scripts do not act in the programming of the game, but in simple automatic functions in your browser, as it would be impossible (and if possible illegal) EA and its employees intervene in the personal computers of their clients, the scripts will continue to exist and a scenario without them I would consider it as utopian.
    As I understand the scripts, they make calls to a library made available by the developers. It would be possible for those calls to be replaced (by the developers) and the scripts that make those calls broken. Is it desirable? That is a different debate.
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • thanks for listening gamedruid

    not because all the cheat scripts I've ever known have been blocked, normal game scripts help everyone have access without spending much time on the internet to get them, it was only a comment because I saw some previous opinions diminishing the importance of the multi subject accounts, and bringing back old discussions about the scripts by citing scripts that do not even exist and some that do not even work anymore.
  • > @Soixie said:
    > Was directed at aewarren22, someone naive enough to bring up a **** 10 year old dead horse about script cheating like it's some new issue that needs to be addressed. It's not an issue on any wild imaginative level.

    Lmao. I never said it was a new issue. Scripts have existed since the game was created lol. My point was that the developers have proactively tried to disable every other exploit used by players (including the latest one, multi-accounting), while continuing to ignore this problem. And it's still a real drag on the game, so yeah, it actually does need to be addressed at some point if EA is serious about fairness.

    I agree with what Soixie said earlier: “It's illegal to drive 100mph on any public road in the US, but failure to monitor traffic is the same as actively supporting it.”

    And if nothing can be done about it, then sure, it would be like beating a dead horse. But the developers actually DO have the ability to break third-party scripts (along the lines of what gamerdruid described)...they just haven't yet. So I was pointing out the inconsistency between being so gung-ho in reducing multi-accounting the way they have (even if it hurts teamplay for a lot of players), but turning a blind eye on these other issues that have been a problem for far longer than multi-accounting.

    As for PvPanzer's argument, it's a bit silly for him to say that just because he's personally never seen anyone doing anything wrong, it must not happen -- and anyone who says otherwise is just making it up. It's not actually necessary to debate the existence of any particular script, although it's common knowledge that autosims are still used, since this has been a persistent problem EA admits it's still trying to combat. But the very fact that the developers are allowing players to create their own scripts to give themselves an advantage, creates a distorted playing field. It also means it's literally impossible to know all the scripts that have been invented until they leak to the wider community, which can take years...if it even happens (or unless PvPanzer magically has accounts in every world in every alliance all the time). And even if you took his argument at face value, that doesn't change the fact that there's absolutely no reason for allowing this kind of potential for abuse to continue.

    Multi-accounting IS a problem. It's disastrous on FA worlds. But it's a problem that needs to be dealt with while ALSO closing other major exploits. Certain teams rely on multi-accounting specifically to defeat teams that use scripts. Both are unfair. But if EA only deals with one and not the other, that doesn't make things any more fair, it just gives the team that relies on scripts their advantage back (who are usually the ones complaining the most about multi-accounts). And players that use neither exploit continue to get discouraged until they quit, which makes the game poorer for everyone.
  • gamerdruid
    2590 posts Moderator
    I very much doubt that teams rely solely on multi-accounting to defeat other teams. Every world I've been on teams use scripts of some kind, and multi-accounting is also common. They are not mutually exclusive, but they can be a problem.
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • @gamerdruid I was mostly thinking of the latest Tiberian 37 world, which was won by an alliance using extreme multi-accounting at a level the game has never seen before. You may be right, the multi-accounters may have had their own scripts, and the teams that lost probably snuck a few alts in to help boost their accounts. But it does seem like alliances known for developing their own scripts tend to frown heavily on multi-accounting, while teams accused of multi-accounting aren't really known for their script usage (if they had been using certain scripts, they would have been winning servers more often, but a common complaint is that these are average players who suddenly became good by using alts.)

    So there are definitely teams known for severe multi-accounting and others known for heavy script usage. But you are right that it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive.
  • man, you have it wrong on so many levels, let me dispel some myths for you:
    1. "a common complaint is that these are average players who suddenly became good by using alts"
    To play multi-accounts properly you have to be a very strong player and to fund the alts properly
    If you are an average player, alts will pull you down
    If you doubt this claim, then just check how the people doing multis on tib 37 did on the last WCS: they were pretty much all in top 50 there, with morale, without alts, without rt packages etc. That means they are strong with or without alts.
    The reason people play multi-accounts is not so much because it makes them stronger, but to compensate for the fact that their comrades are not strong.
    On an FA world how your team digs determines how fast you can grow, the early boost from alts evaporates if your team sucks at digging.
    An alliance is as strong as its average players, if you have a few top players and a bunch of much weaker ones, then you have to find a way to compensate for that low average somehow, to kill more bases, to dig faster, and by the way that takes a lot more time from just a few people.
    2. "alliances known for developing their own scripts tend to frown heavily on multi-accounting"
    The alliances that frown on multi-accounters do this mostly for ideological (aka fairness) reasons, because it feels like somebody is having a "free lunch", but really deep down they know that they simply cannot afford the time and money to play multiple accounts, that is why they want to constrain others.
    By the way, the alliances that lost on tib 37 are not known for spending much money on the game, but their average player is quite strong, that is how they won last wcs. As far as I can tell, frowning on multis is unrelated with script writing.
    3. "if they had been using certain scripts, they would have been winning servers more often"
    Can you tell more specifically which kinds of scripts you have in mind. Most scripts make only a marginal impact and will not win a world for you. The only thing that made some difference on last wcs was the ability to be the first to attack a bubbled base. But some people say it wasn't even a script, just a fast clicker application. Another candidate is a lockdown script, which I suspect both sides used to some extent on the last wcs. Finally, a possible autosim script: there weren't even any allegations of it being used on last wcs as far as I know, and for good reason. Most of the top players already make sims close to the best possible, so a script that finds something comparable at best may save some players simulation time, but won't create a significant edge.

    One thing that you are right about is this: teams with weaker average players, but more time and money available, on a world with a tib 37 ruleset have a chance to compensate for quality with other things, and beat the german teams. The patch makes this a lot less likely. So by making changes restricting certain behaviors the developers are certainly heavily influencing, if not picking, the next wcs winners.
  • @p0ir_r0tt Thanks for adding some additional clarification. I take your point that I may have missed some of the nuances of multi-accounting. Also, I said "the common complaint is that these are average players," simply because in the forums, that's what I've seen other people complain about... whether it's actually true or not is another question.

    However, your reasoning for why multi-accounting exists was a little confusing. You are saying it only happened because some teams' average players weren't that good? So rather than find better players, the top guys decided to bring in a bunch of alts to feed their accounts? Sorry, I respectfully disagree because I was in some of the first worlds where multi-accounting was used, and that wasn't the full rationale. Maybe it was part of the reason, but it was also because players were annoyed at losing to certain teams that were being dogged with accusations at the time (and still are) of having unfair advantages (including scripts but also other things like getting insider info from mods and devs, but that's going off topic).

    "As far as I can tell, frowning on multis is unrelated with script writing."

    I agree that the ideological reasons and issues of fairness and not wanting to spend money/time play a big role in why some alliances look down on multis. But I think it IS also related to script writing, because the same groups of players known for developing scripts are in some of the teams that have been losing recently to multi-accounting and are blowing up the forum with complaints about multis -- which has led to this big mess with the patch.

    Regarding autosim, I did not play the last WCS so I can't speak to your experiences there. I do know from my own experiences as a player that it's still a problem and that there have been some extremely suspicious servers. We can go into the details between how you can tell if a player is actually skilled vs. if they're using an autosim (it's not obvious until pvp starts), but that's kind of getting sidetracked. We can also talk about other scripts and debate how useful they are, but the larger problem is that you as a player -- unless you have accounts in the core command team of every top alliance -- can't possibly ever know what kinds of scripts are out there. That alone casts a shadow on any server where there are strong suspicions.

    "So by making changes restricting certain behaviors the developers are certainly heavily influencing, if not picking, the next wcs winners."

    Agree 100%.
  • "So by making changes restricting certain behaviors the developers are certainly heavily influencing, if not picking, the next wcs winners."
    Agree 100%.

    honestly..... i dont get it... What is so hard on playing this game good and organised without multiple alts and **** scripts??? I hvae never used multiple alts, i have never used any script like autosimm or whatever, and i play on every world at least in the top 50 .... Am i wont say that i am a godlike Player like others are. Why isnt it possible for any other alliance to group up with a bunch of good players and then beat us (german alliances, i was at schaffa on the last wcs e.g.)? we do nothing special, we have a bunch of good and active players and we try to be organized as good as possibke.... thats it. Pro simm was used in the beginning of the last wcs, i know that because we kick the player which used it in schaffa immediately! (Parmas was one of them) I dont know of any other illegal scripts we were using.
    It would be no problem for most of us to play and fund several multi alts, but in fact for me: I dont want it! its not the sense of the game in my oppinion. As u saw on tib 37 UE was nearly as strong as the multi alts players were, but they were too many players and we stand alone there.
    So bult up a bunch of good players, team up, play the game, organize yourself as good as we do and then you will have the same chances as we have to win the wcs. Just my 2cents....
  • "What is so hard on playing this game good and organised without multiple alts and **** scripts???"

    I agree and would love to see a server where the ability to use alts and the ability to use scripts has been destroyed by EA, so that all players can have full trust that it's a completely fair server. I would love to see the end results of such a world, and know 100% that whichever team wins did it purely because they were more organized, were smarter at diplomacy, were more strategic in pvp, etc. I agree that teams that do this should be the ones that deserve to win.

    However, while that's great your alliance kicked one player suspected of autosimming (kudos), it doesn't really mean anything because not every alliance would do the same. And this shouldn't be a game where every server you just have to trust the enemy to police itself and not play dirty. The fact that these problems keep popping up is a sign that this doesn't work.

    "we do nothing special"

    Just out of curiosity, are you saying you guys don't use a single script that's not available to the wider community?
  • Uncle_J00
    11 posts Member
    edited February 1
    I have to totally agree with @KaptainKanalie .
    I don't use multis and I don't use some suspicious scripts not because I don't have time for it, but because I just don't want to. To me the alliance with the best players, the best strategies, the best diplomacy and the best organization should win, because they deserve it and not an alliance, who massively used multi accounts (or some scripts). This is not about fairness for me, it's about if you can play good or if you can only be good with help of multi accounts. And like @KaptainKanalie said, why is it so hard for other alliances to grab a bunch of really good players and organize a really strong alliance to beat the Germans without multi accounts, who - unfortunately i have to say - are mostly the best organized alliance.
    aewarren22 wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, are you saying you guys don't use a single script that's not available to the wider community?

    No, as far as I know there are no scripts we use which are not available for the whole community.
    All players I know just use common script collections like Center Driven, Crucial Pack or CnCTA SoO which are available for everyone.
    Furthermore we also don't tolerate players who use suspicious scripts like Autosim and if we notice we kick them out (even if they go to our enemy like on the last WCS).

    Besides that @aewarren22 I dont think that scripts can have such a impact on players and the win of a server like multi accounts do.
    Autosim e.g can help worse players to become good players, but not to become top players. In my opinion there are no scripts in this game, which can do things more effective than human beings.
    As far as I know Autosim gives you the best simulation for a base, but it cannot change your off units.
    And this is what many top players do, they change their off setup for every base they shoot which is even more effective than autosim can ever be.

    Get some good players and form a well organized alliance, so there will be a even and exciting next WCS and may the best team win!
    And let's hope the WCS will start soon^^

    Uncle


    Post edited by Uncle_J00 on
  • > @aewarren22 said:

    > "we do nothing special"
    >
    > Just out of curiosity, are you saying you guys don't use a single script that's not available to the wider community?

    I can only speak for myself, i dont use any others scripts, i dont even use an external sim.... Since the simulator was integrated in the game i only use the ingame simulator. i use wavy on FA worlds to see how many bases in range, i use cnc opt and a layout scanner which is implemented in one script. thats it... i dont even use scripts to otimize leveling structures, i do everything like my brain tells it to me^^ thats it mainly, have u some examples what scripts u mean which are cheating scripts? i cant even imagine what kind of script can be better than experience and skillz.

    By the way : we dont kIck one Player for using "prosimm" (i think this was the name) , we kick 4 or 5 Players for this reason, an 5-6 others left with them (but i dont know if they used this **** too, think it was a leave for friendship with parmas^^ we had at one point just 38 members as the no 1 allince in points ranking on wcs, that was the reason for it.
  • I applaud both Uncle and Kaptain for not using private scripts and not using multi-accounts and in Kaptain's case, not using any scripts at all (lol). Nice job, I wish all of the thousands of players in the game were like you^^

    But I think it's disingenuous to say that all an alliance needs to do to win is get a good team together and be better organized and all will be fine. On some servers, that may be true if you're really lucky. But the fact that Kaptain openly admits they kicked 5-6 guys for using autosim just shows that autosim still exists and is being used -- and that's a problem. It also leads to the question, how many years did your leaders allow players to use it before they decided it was wrong? And frankly, there's no way of knowing if you really got rid of all the autosimmers (maybe just the ones your alliance couldn't control lol).

    As for Uncle's argument that autosim can only help worse players become good players but won't have a big impact on the game, that is just naive. As p0ir pointed out earlier, "An alliance is as strong as its average players." Helping bad and average players become good, and helping good players become better, can have a huge effect on how quickly and big your alliance grows compared to a team that doesn't use it. Not to mention its effect on pvp, and giving players the ability to send perfect attacks every time.

    I will give another example since Uncle and Kaptain seem so insistent that there are no private scripts out there that give alliances any kind of advantage.

    A few years ago, a certain german alliance developed a sector relocation script that tells you exactly where you will land when you sector jump. It was NOT made available to the rest of the community. Most players today don't even know about it. Non-germans eventually found out about it as the script was slowly shared between more german players, one of whom accidentally used it in game chat one day. And it's still nearly impossible to get unless you know someone who has it and is willing to share.

    By itself, the script isn't going to make a sucky team suddenly win a server. But it IS going to give a team that has it a significant advantage, since you can use it to figure out where an enemy will land in your home if they attack you, and where your pvp team will land when they sector to the enemy -- instead of just guessing and hoping for the best, which is what all the other teams have to do.

    Regardless of how much of an advantage you think it gives, the fact is, non-germans only found out about it BY ACCIDENT. Germans developed it, kept it secret for as long as they could -- all while claiming they play strictly by the book and just happen to be better organized than everyone else lol. This leads to the next question: What other, better scripts did they create that no one else knows about? Can anything they say be trusted now?

    It's fair to assume most scripts start off as privately-held scripts that give some teams and players an advantage until they are leaked and eventually become public. But this process can take years, as the sector relocation script demonstrates. I am sure there are scripts currently being developed by german teams today (and others as well!), which no one will know about until years down the road, after the next dozen servers have been won. And if EA is going to reduce multi-accounting, then they should deal with this problem too.
  • @aewarren22

    (Please consider that everything I write is only my opinion and only my current state of information)

    The Problem is that neither Kaptain nor me can give you evidence that we don't have these scripts nor that they are used in the alliances we play (so especially Schaffa and Mara). And thats for a simple reason: It's hard to prove that we have NO such scripts. I can only tell you that when I play I am mostly online all day and also in TeamSpeak all day and if there would be such scripts in our alliance I would probably be one of the first who knows. That's why I just have to rely on your trust and to believe that what I am telling is the truth.
    About the autosim:
    -I can only tell you that autosim is forbidden in all ("good") alliances I have been so far (Mara, Schaffa,
    Dragonclaws) and I also expect it was forbidden before I joined the alliance.
    -The last time Autosim was seen was in the WCS 2017, so it's not sure if it still exists.
    -The players who used Autosim on WCS came from the alliance "League of Legends" and played the first time with Schaffa and were kicked as soon as Leadership was sure of they are using it, so it's very likely that we got rid of all autosimmers.

    Also a clarification because I think you misunderstood me at my last point:
    I didn't say that autosim (and other scripts) are no advantage for the players/alliance and of course can be game changing, especially because the "average player" gets stronger and in order to that the whole alliance.
    But:
    -As I said in most alliances I know autosim is forbidden and if there are players using it (and noone noticed it yet) it's only a (few) player(s).
    -Script cheating is a problem but nothing new. However multi accounts (and notably this massive use like on Tib37) is a relatively fast rising topic and it has a much greater impact on the win of a server than any script can have, e.g. autosim. Also multi accounts are much more common than "cheat scripts".That is probably why it's the main focus of the developers to stop this first.

    About the script which predicts where you land after sector jump: Personally I have never heard of it and as I said earlier I would probably know if it's used in my alliance.

    Furthermore you also say that in particular german alliances develop scripts which is - in my opinion - just wrong. I think there are players in every country/language who develop scripts for themself or for the alliance they are playing and keep them secret from the wider community.

    So of course scripts and multi accounts are bad and somehow should be dealt with. But multi accounts are a much bigger problem because the impact on the player/alliance strength and the win of a server is much bigger and way more players are using multis than "cheat scripts". Also as mentioned if cheat scripts are used its often only some players and not a whole alliance.

    Uncle




  • @Uncle_J00 I am glad you are willing to debate and I'm not trying to accuse you specifically of anything. I acknowledge your point that it's not only germans who use scripts. I cited them mainly because the latest script to leak was developed by a well-known german group, who used it for years before others even knew about it, and it is still being used by german players who are now crying about multi-accounting in the forums -- so the hypocrisy is laughable. Not to mention how most suspected autosimmers just happen to be german. But you are right, cheating is not exclusive to one nationality.

    We could debate which is worse -- multi-accounts or autosims -- and never reach an agreement. It really depends on which servers you play (classic vs. FA), and what experiences you've had as a player. Multi-accounting only gets excessive on FA worlds like Tib37 with low/no morale. On classic, alts quickly fall behind and become useless. And unless you actually go through the miserable ordeal of trying to beat a team using autosims, then sure, to you it may seem like a problem that barely exists.

    But this isn't about one player's experiences, or any specific alliance. It's about how EA focuses on addressing certain exploits while ignoring others, which worsens an already distorted playing field. Your argument essentially boils down to: 1) I've never seen my alliances using scripts, therefore it must not be widespread, 2) some alliances have banned autosim, therefore it's not a big deal anymore, and 3) you'll just have to take my word for it.

    Rather than a system based on trust, that keeps getting broken, there needs to be one where all major exploits have been crippled by the game developers. Otherwise they are just favoring one team over another and helping to skew the server results. If more german teams like Schaffa and Mara (using your example) pushed the developers to work on a permanent solution to autosims, there likely would've been some actual progress by now.

    "So of course scripts and multi accounts are bad and somehow should be dealt with."

    I guess we'll just have to agree on this, and disagree on others.
  • "Get some good players and form a well organized alliance"
    Great advice, on target on both points.
    1. Of the top 100 players in the game (quality wise), at least 60 are german, and very few new star players come to the game. Where can the opposition get new strong players? They don't exist. And those that exist quit.
    2. Not having a common language hurts organization enormously.
    These two reasons is exactly why german alliances won so much wcs.
    If you have 40 people that cannot communicate easily trying to oppose 60 people that can always be in teamspeak and share commong tongue, there is little chance.
    So of course those 40 people try to find a way to compensate for this disadvantage, in any way possible that is allowed. Multis are allowed and were allowed from the start. Now calling their use an "exploit" and doing something about it is "not fair". If I am not german, for me the situation is not fair from the start.
  • p0ir_r0tt
    24 posts Member
    edited February 2
    "by the way, there is another bug with this patch:
    on PTE I sent a substitution, after 13 days on the server, the other person accepted the substitution, logged in, did stuff
    but now when I try to end it, I get the standard message
    https://gyazo.com/369e6249869670fa2d1017ce9fa20fe8
    and when I click the Yes button, nothing happens
    I am unable to end the substitution"

    update: Actually, it seems that the close buttons and many other buttons also stopped working in the game for me, and not only on the PTE. So I am suspecting it is an update to firefox that did this. Weird.
    Post edited by p0ir_r0tt on
  • Sorrowman1984
    28 posts Member
    edited February 3
    What an endless debate, lol . Will always be players that try to get advantage from everything they can and these players can be standing in all sides and most of the times cant even be noticeable or provable. There are not only Germans or Russians or British that from time to time exploiting/cheating/abusing/trying to get advantages of some game holes.
    For me there are some real problems and some myth problems. When I say real problems I mean problems that everybody can notice , and myth problems those problems that many suspecting,nobody can really prove and very few - if the myth is true - are taking advantage of it.
    -Like multi accounting, a real problem or like auto sim, a myth problem. I have played 2 worlds that I lost wtih massive multi accounting abuse t10 and t37, dont think that t37 was the exception or even the worse, t10 was the same level just the revival wasnt so strong to make such big noise.
    - Or auto sim , myth problem for me as personally I have never seen the .js of the autosim, not even a screenshot of the script, even if I have tried to find it out , out of curiosity to see how the heck this thing works and if can really give so much advantage to players


    Last couple of pages have been used to debate about the general problems that every player thinks that are more urgent and more important, instead of focusing on the subject of the thread that is about the 19.1 and the fix that EA is preparing to implement soon. I see more urgent and more important to try to give to Eleptherion to understand that with they way they are trying to apply the new rule set is, imho, killing the team work and even the game. And I still cant understand the sense of sending the loot to the ashes instead of sending it to the player(s) that have helped the killing account of the base . If are alts , then the alts can get the loot , so what? I cant really see the problem, if an alt grow bit more than before doesnt mean that the main account can take advantage of it or anyway a significant advantage

    PS . The relocation "script" is real and exist, and the funny is that the formula is somewhere in the forum posted, just look more careful before you complain about something lol
This discussion has been closed.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!