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Patchnotes 19.1 PTE

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  • WarriorXG
    10 posts Member
    edited February 3
    It seems the discussion is getting mixed up between 2 things: multi-accounts (having alts), and using the alts to boost your main account. We have had a lot of conversations regarding this in the Angry Birds leader team.

    We do not allow alts in our main alliance. It is 50 unique players, but we feel that it is OK to have as many alts as you want, so long as they are used fairly. For instance, to have several accounts to play more time, or to practice playing the other faction, or convenience things like wing management (check who is online, post in forum, create alliance markers, remove inactives, etc), or to put an alt base as a placeholder on the position of a layout, or die to flood influence. We feel these uses of alt accounts do not violate the intent of the game. They do not give an unfair advantage and all top teams do them.

    Some of the previous patches make it clear that some things are an abuse of an alt account. For instance, locking out an attacking base was patched so we could no longer attack other players in the same alliance or naps. You can still attack your base from an alt in another alliance, but it clearly violates the intent of the game, and as a policy, we do not use lock-outs in our team unless we are fighting an enemy that uses them. Farming resources off of other accounts was patched (it fixed account eating but nearly destroyed the game by making PVP outrageously expensive and unsustainable), so clearly using an account to boost another is a huge violation of the intent of the game since developers have already taken drastic, game damaging measures to patch and remove the transfer from one account to another. But the game mechanics still allow the resources of an alt account to go into building the main account, and it does not require much intelligence to figure out that dumping the resources gained from the CP and RT of many alt accounts into a single main account will outperform any other player who is attempting to grow with with only the 240 CP and 24 hours RT the game gives the main account. We have a policy of no pre-hitting in Angry Birds.

    Regarding the idea that some cheating is OK but not a lot:

    On Wrath 22, MalyPB started up an alliance called "Coffee Shop", which was a couple of dozen alts of his pre-hitting bases to feed his main account. His plan was to build a top account with alt abuse and then join the team that seemed would win the server for an easy #1 badge. He was rank #1 on the server as a player since very early on. Angry Birds was just about tied with Kindergartenbande, and after players began landing their 4th base, it was evident that both Kindergartenbande and Angry Birds were the two teams that had the top talent on the server. Maly asked to join Angry Birds and we refused to invite him because we wanted a clean win without any kind of cheating, and we were aware that Maly had grossly abused alts to boost his main account. We knew he would end up in Kindergartenbande, and it was a gamble that we could lose the server over, but it was important for us to keep the team clean to our standards, so we fought him and Kindergartenbande and we conquered the server despite the disadvantage. Nobody from Angry Birds voiced a complaint in the forum at that point, but we all felt the boosting of main with alts was a violation of the intent of the game.

    On Tib 37, Maly started with another 4 players, all massively using alts to boost their mains. They were playing as a part of Legends, and were a part of a bigger team that included TTD, who also used the same tactic with many accounts. Our team was Ugly Eagle and Angry Birds, and has some of the best players in the game, and yet Legends and TTD top players had twice the base kills in a dozen accounts than our top players had, and we had none of the top 10 ranked players for a long time. This is not normal and had nothing to do with skill in Legends and TTD, on the contrary, our top main bases were only 20% behind the top of Legends/TTD, so if our team had pre-hit, we would have a far stronger team than they had. But it was a severely uphill fight. A little abuse as in Wrath 22 made no difference, but a lot, as in Tib 37, made the better team lose the server, so now you are hearing complaints. A little was OK, but not a lot.

    While we are on the subject, congratulations to Maly, Legends and TTD for their win. It was played by the game mechanics and resulted in a victory, and that is a fact. We would not want the #1 badge using the methods you used, but evidently you see things from a different perspective, you have different rules, you will enjoy the badge, and you have obtained it. Good job and cheers to your success.

    We will see how we go about future servers. I am sensing that many in our team have a distaste for the game after this loss. They feel cheated. We will see how this new patch works and see what the future holds. Would be fun to take on Legends and TTD for a rematch if the patch works and the alt abuse is stopped. I would love to be a part of that one for sure.

    But I am not convinced the patch will work.
    1. Reducing sub access will detract from players who have extended leaves and want teammates to help them, and seems will have an insignificant effect on the problem. The new login system does not allow a second account to be open in a single browser user, so its probably just easier for alt abusers to access their alts through subs, but they still have access regardless.

    - Suggestion: Sub access restrictions should be reversed in my opinion, as they do more harm than good.

    2. Lowering bonuses as a % of the defense killed by an alt, simply means they have to be more careful with their alt to punch a small hole in the defense (kill the DF and only 15 to 20% of the defense that allows access to the CY), then one shoot the base with their main account. Each one shot base with 80% loot still means the alt abuse will pay off.

    - Suggestion: If you consider that the alt abusers are always pre-hitting with weaker accounts, and the difference in strength from their main acct to the alt is big, and it gets bigger and bigger as the server progresses, then the patch would probably work better by paying the loot of the base to the account that killed the cy as a % of the hits it took to kill the base. So 4 hits from an alt to get into the df and make it stay dead, one from the main account to kill it, means the main gets only 20% of the base loot. This way, alt assisted loot will never be more than 50% (1 shot from an alt, 1 shot from main), and the return on CP for kill shots quickly gets worse as pre-hitting accounts get weaker relative to their main.

    3. The Loss of resources (no resources for accounts that did not get the kill) means that players will not want to share bases. Many players enjoy taking down bases with another player and alternating kills. There are best of friends playing together, father/son teams, etc. who play this way. If they continue doing it, each will make half what they did before, so it is not a feasible option to continue killing bases in tandem. The game experience will take another big hit with the loss of shared base resources.

    - Suggestion: Developers might want to consider making the loot split among the accounts that partook killing the base.
  • I have a suggestion:
    1)
    if 0 mutlikont and 0 scripts - only those scripts that deliver the game are left, eg simulator, CNC0pt, scanner
    2)
    if the scam scripts are allowed, then you must allow "alts"
    3)
    suggestion from another topic:
    in the alliance, the player's rank "inactive" deprives the player of the bonus of the alliance (bonus for the POI) - I think that it will help in managing the Alliance, it certainly will not hurt :)
  • heres a novel idea to stop multi accs, just allow a 1 or 2 hour per acc per day for everyone. so you cannot sit and play the game all day feeding off alt accounts. simples
  • > @garrus1979 said:
    > I have a suggestion:
    > 1)
    > if 0 mutlikont and 0 scripts - only those scripts that deliver the game are left, eg simulator, CNC0pt, scanner
    > 2)
    > if the scam scripts are allowed, then you must allow "alts"
    > 3)
    > suggestion from another topic:
    > in the alliance, the player's rank "inactive" deprives the player of the bonus of the alliance (bonus for the POI) - I think that it will help in managing the Alliance, it certainly will not hurt :)
  • aewarren22
    16 posts Member
    edited February 5
    Well, @Sorrowman1984 the discussion started down that path since someone brought up cheat scripts and one of the mod’s responses was, “I'm a pragmatist at heart, if I can't change it I don't worry about it.” It just touched a nerve since it seemed like there has been inconsistency between how the devs and mods are approaching the multi-accounting issue vs. the more insidious problems that have affected the game for far longer. I am sure the experience of losing the last two servers to multi-accounting was deeply upsetting and painful. But downplaying and dismissing other exploits as myths, against all evidence to the contrary for players who continue to encounter them, just adds to the problem of why some exploits get fixed and others get swept under the rug for years.

    This rushed patch is not going to solve multis entirely and it ruins the gameplay of a lot of guys. But I’m confident that multi-accounting IS eventually going to get 100% fixed at some point, since EA has decided to focus on it and they will continue to patch servers in an attempt to reduce the advantage one gains from multis. My sincere hope is that after they deal with multis they will finally work on other longstanding problems next, or else this will negatively affect server outcomes. While many guys believe scripts and autosim are just as important, for whatever reason there’s less push to deal with it.

    (p.s. Yes the sector formula is in the forum now and some teams have the actual script of course but it doesn’t change the point that it was a privately held script that gave an unfair advantage for a period of time before it got leaked by accident. You are being purposely obtuse and silly.)

    Anyway, we don’t need to keep discussing this since we’re going around in circles now. I actually thought the topic was finished until you replied. I think all POVs have been debated and we can go back to talking about patch specifics. It’d be nice if there were alternative solutions to multis that didn’t destroy teamplay.
    Post edited by aewarren22 on
  • HAHAHAHA these guys all pissed cause they got smoked on 2 worlds. Poor sorrow lost 2 worlds so now the game has to change for everyone.

    All these crying babies want things that hurt them fixed but not EA mucking with stuff they use to win. Sorrow and his ally have a stash of scripts too lololol.
  • aewarren22 wrote: »
    I am sure the experience of losing the last two servers to multi-accounting was deeply upsetting and painful.

    - Evidently you don't know sorrowman. It's a joke to think that he is deeply hurt. Traumatized, waking up in the middle of the night screaming "MULTIS!". LOL He is Just a little angry because he feels cheated, same as if you purchased a meal at a fast food, and someone else showed up at the counter with a strip of receipt paper and your order number hand written on it, and just walked out the door with your order. Not deeply upsetting and not something you would lose any sleep over, just something that instigates a primal instinct to cave someone's head in. And I'm sure that sorrowman would love the game to become fair so he could have at Legends and TTD on an even battlefield.
    aewarren22 wrote: »
    But downplaying and dismissing other exploits as myths, against all evidence to the contrary for players who continue to encounter them, just adds to the problem of why some exploits get fixed and others get swept under the rug for years.

    - Scripts give an advantage to a team. That is agreed. In fact, if you look back on the top teams, all have had script developers that played on them. And those scripts are shared with team and friends and are open to the general public. However, some scripts, like the so-called "auto-sim script", are in their own mythic limbo. Out of literally hundreds, if not thousands of players I have played with, not once have I seen someone using auto-sim. I have asked many players and nobody has seen it first hand. The first time I recall hearing of it was that allegedly Nvidia brought up the issue of a rival using it in a WCS, but even the players I know that were in Nvidia during the WCS had not seen it. So where is it?
    aewarren22 wrote: »
    This rushed patch is not going to solve multis entirely and it ruins the gameplay of a lot of guys.

    - I probably agree with this last statement 100%.
  • aewarren22
    16 posts Member
    edited February 4
    "In fact, if you look back on the top teams, all have had script developers that played on them. And those scripts are shared with team and friends and are open to the general public."

    Um, no, if they were open to the general public then it wouldn't be a problem. It is fair to assume that most scripts are shared first with the team and friends and used to give them an advantage and only gradually leak out to the general public, sometimes years after they've been created. And no, not every top team has their own script-developers lol, some of them do win purely on skill and just outplaying the competition -- but when they are fighting against guys using their own scripts, it can be tough and expensive since you have to compensate for not having similar advantages. And that's a **** way of running a game no matter how you slice it.

    I've seen autosim firsthand. Even players that insist it's not a big problem anymore admit it still exists (see other people's previous posts). But it's just funny that guys either try to insist it doesn't exist anymore or they say well it does exist but not many players use it, when they should be saying, let's just put a permanent solution in place to make sure it can never be used again. That way, everyone would know for sure. It's like, why would you even care if EA tried to solve the issue once and for all? How does that affect you personally whether you think it's a problem or not?

    You're right I don't know Sorrowman, I was mostly teasing him lol.
  • aewarren22 wrote: »
    "In fact, if you look back on the top teams, all have had script developers that played on them. And those scripts are shared with team and friends and are open to the general public."

    Um, no, if they were open to the general public then it wouldn't be a problem. It is fair to assume that most scripts are shared first with the team and friends and used to give them an advantage and only gradually leak out to the general public, sometimes years after they've been created. And no, not every top team has their own script-developers lol, some of them do win purely on skill and just outplaying the competition -- but when they are fighting against guys using their own scripts, it can be tough and expensive since you have to compensate for not having similar advantages.

    HIlarious. You don't realize that the scripts that come in Center Driven, or other packs have their signature of the developers. "Green Cross" was an alliance. How do you think the script developers knew the script would be useful if they didn't play the game? The fact that you think that Mara Schaffa, Nvidia, Mara, etc. don't use scripts and win out of using the force alone, simply stated, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
    aewarren22 wrote: »
    I've seen autosim firsthand. Even players that insist it's not a big problem anymore admit it still exists (see other people's previous posts).

    More rumor talk. If you have the script, record yourself using it and post it on Youtube so we can all start believing it does in fact exist. Rumor and hearsay is not "evidence".
    aewarren22 wrote: »
    It's like, why would you even care if EA tried to solve the issue once and for all? How does that affect you personally whether you think it's a problem or not?

    When the developers changed the login, they broke both cncmaps and cncstats websites (public info), and those were tools that gave useful information mostly for managing a team and poi (checking a report on daily base kills is a lot less work than checking each player's information every day), and tracking server progress (rival team bases seem to be moving in this direction and digging in that direction and these are the POI they will come across, instead of scouring over the world map to do the same). They helped things be more transparent, but did not boost us and simply make our team have a bigger offense and defense by two levels. It was a big loss to the gaming community in my opinion to lose those two sites. But that aside, I can speak for everyone in our team in saying that we do not care if all scripts are restricted to a server and all alliances have access to the same script library and anyone can choose what they use. It is fair and we would stand behind that.

    I believe sorrow's mention of myth was about steering developers into chasing ghosts with their time, instead of handling real issues. Not that if it was a real issue, they should avoid fixing it because it is in our interests. That is simply not the case.
  • WarriorXG
    10 posts Member
    edited February 4
    While we are in a forum that developers see, here is a suggestion to improve the game:

    - In the alliance tab in the game window, there should be a list of the players within the alliance (like the roster) with each player's main offense level, defense level of all bases, level of support weapon in each base, support is set on X base, whether the DF of each base is at the level of the DefHQ of each base, link to cncopt of each base, sp balance, cp balance, rt balance (if they are maxed they should show in red as in the game), maximum rt consumed per hit, sub sent to X player, base kills last 24 hours, last week, and total for the server, pvp kills last 24, last week, and for server.

    Getting this information is all busy-work that makes the job of organizing a team a lot more of a burden than it has to be. Scripts that do this are public info and widely available and used, but some players cannot get them installed, others are buggy, and don't update until a player logs in with the script running. I am sure the game developers could do a better job at getting this information to everyone.
  • gamerdruid
    2233 posts Moderator
    edited February 4
    WarriorXG wrote: »
    .... I am sure the game developers could do a better job at getting this information to everyone.
    That is a lot of data to present. They should be able to do a better job than the sometimes buggy scripts, but some things come to mind from the list. CnCopt is a script relying on Flash which will be depreciated soon. They will need to develop a version of each script anyway as most are allowed to be used under a non-commercial use licence and many original writer can't be traced (they've tried in the past).

    There are many on here who may disagree with your statement too :)
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • aewarren22
    16 posts Member
    edited February 5
    WarriorXG wrote: »
    The fact that you think that Mara Schaffa, Nvidia, Mara, etc. don't use scripts and win out of using the force alone, simply stated, makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

    Well, there were Mara/Schaffa players who were claiming their alliance don't use any non-public scripts, whether it's true or not, I have no way to tell. Nor did I claim anything one way or the other about those teams. What I DID say is that it is fair to assume that most scripts are developed privately and used to give advantages to the alliances that made them for a period of time before they leak out to the wider community or are finally shared publicly (and some may never leak out at all). And some alliances like Green Cross, Center Driven, may of course share them publicly right from the start (which is very nice of them). And some top teams (i.e. teams that have won servers, not necessarily just Mara, Schaffa, Nvidia) don't have any script-writers or use any kind of private scripts at all, which is how it should be.
    WarriorXG wrote: »
    If you have the script, record yourself using it

    I should clarify. I've played against alliances that were clearly using autosim. But it's an insidious problem, because really the only way for an opposing alliance to tell is during pvp when the enemy's attacks are extremely out of the norm -- i.e. their army setups are weird and change dramatically in between each two-minute hit. You can also get a spy in their alliance, but even then it's tough when their players kept deleting their reports. Maybe Kaptain and Uncle can clarify how they knew the 5-6 guys they kicked from Schaffa were using autosim -- I am sure it's easier to tell when those players are in your alliance instead of in the enemy's.

    And if I had the script myself, obviously I'd be as happy as a cat with a bowl of milk and I'd be doing whatever I could to convince EA to never mess with third-party scripts ever lol.
    WarriorXG wrote: »
    I can speak for everyone in our team in saying that we do not care if all scripts are restricted to a server and all alliances have access to the same script library and anyone can choose what they use. It is fair and we would stand behind that.

    Cool. That's settled then^^
    Post edited by aewarren22 on
  • EE_Elephterion
    824 posts Envision Developer
    edited February 5
    We have just patched some hotfixes for PTE to address some minor bugs introduced with the last update
    • The Shortlist Icon for the First base now properly realigns itself when not selected anymore
    • Substitution Buttons now should stay active after you accessed a substitution login
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison
  • nefrontheone
    173 posts Member
    edited February 5
    They tell me that the "My games" tab on the Options menu has disappeared:
    http://prntscr.com/mgw1eh
    And the game is recharged alone after entering Options.
    Not a part of EA / Envision teams -
    My comments are only mine.

  • OK, "My games" is back: http://prntscr.com/mgw3ot
    Not a part of EA / Envision teams -
    My comments are only mine.

  • gamerdruid
    2233 posts Moderator
    edited February 5
    Yes, on some worlds there is a problem with Options not working - also subs. Sometimes a refresh works, mostly it doesn't.

    I've not experienced this on the PTE however (yet).
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • nefrontheone
    173 posts Member
    edited February 5
    From what they told me, one of the problem was that the game recharged (without user intervention) each time when the Options menu was opened in PTE world (this thread is only for PTE, I know).
    Now, both problems are fixed.
    Not a part of EA / Envision teams -
    My comments are only mine.

  • Sorrowman1984
    14 posts Member
    edited February 6
    aewarren22 wrote: »

    I should clarify. I've played against alliances that were clearly using autosim. But it's an insidious problem, because really the only way for an opposing alliance to tell is during pvp when the enemy's attacks are extremely out of the norm -- i.e. their army setups are weird and change dramatically in between each two-minute hit. You can also get a spy in their alliance, but even then it's tough when their players kept deleting their reports. Maybe Kaptain and Uncle can clarify how they knew the 5-6 guys they kicked from Schaffa were using autosim -- I am sure it's easier to tell when those players are in your alliance instead of in the enemy's.

    And if I had the script myself, obviously I'd be as happy as a cat with a bowl of milk and I'd be doing whatever I could to convince EA to never mess with third-party scripts ever lol.

    LOL , so now who is the obtuse and silly ??? Thanks you made my day

    First you are insisting so much that something is real , you know it you have it etc etc etc , and when Warrior comes and obligates you to post the evidences to the community , you made a marvelous 180 degree turn like politician : " eehhh to explain my self bla bla bla and more bla bla bla" . Is this exactly what I called myth actually. I am not here to say that doesnt exist, I simple say that nobody has given the evidences for it - for auto sim and for other scripts .
    Many all have talked about it , many have suspected that others using it , a lot have blames others for using it , NONE HAS PROVED IT!!! not even that exist . Maybe exist, its something that a developer surely could build but also maybe nobody has spent him self yet to do it thats why nobody can show some proofs


    Regards



  • I'd like to remind everyone to remain calm and civil in their debate. There is no need to become personal and attack each other. Moderation has been pretty lenient so far, please don't give them a reason to step in and close threads or make them hand out timeouts.

    Have a cup of tea and relax :)
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison
  • @EE_Elephterion
    World8 Spain - nice http://prntscr.com/mhe0di
    TY !!
    Not a part of EA / Envision teams -
    My comments are only mine.

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