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Spring Challenge in WCS

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  • gamerdruid
    2613 posts Moderator
    edited May 20
    I don't have a 'JOB' with anyone connected with Envision or EA - I have a role on here to moderate the posts.

    Once again, you're making assumptions. I pay for the game too. I get what I pay for - credits to spend within the game.

    If you don't like the answers I give, then it's your problem not mine.
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • bematz
    11 posts Member
    > @gamerdruid said:
    > I don't have a 'JOB' with anyone connected with Envision or EA - I have a role on here to moderate the posts.
    >
    > Once again, you're making assumptions. I pay for the game too. I get what I pay for - credits to spend within the game.
    >
    > If you don't like the answers I give, then it's your problem not mine.

    atm you answer officially about the game, you are supposed to give official answers and not your basic point of view. As a moderator i think i can assume you know the way to report bad conduct from Envision or EA staff. could you please tell me who should i reach or the path to do so?

    thank you
  • sentierorosso
    62 posts Member
    edited May 20
    Guys but you still don't understand how it works?
    1. Kogey ask to fix use multiaccount because he lost every server before WCS......and DEV approve and destroy team work.
    2. They hear each other in ts several times to decide how they should perform.
    3. Before server start we ask for modify, many word many silly promises, but basically the patch remains.
    4. False start.........really you think is a mistake? you know what was the best way to reach the center by bases to kill / POI?..............simple N and SW and shaffa? OFC N and SW..........then decide to relocate on SW because on N first alliance of server and prefere delay war......
    5. The most scandalous thing was to give the possibility of having rt with the challenge, Everyone understood afterwards why shaffa had stopped 48 hours before the challenge and then it was clear to everyone ..... but too late, most of the excavation bases were ahead 30 Camps compared to the infected areas, only OFF of shaffa all in good zone ahahhahahah
    6. TOS violation ........ why no one decision around shared account?

    This game it has been all distorted, now they will say that it is not true that they are the best team etc. etc. ....... we want to talk about the first relocation of Kogey?

    Everyone saw where it started and where it ended.
    I back to my first message here..........when the referee becomes a player himself, the opponent has lost before starting.

    Good good life to all, surely my money spent them better, and I hope all follow me, next WCS maybe Shaffa can play against shaffa 2 :-)
  • inzomn1a
    37 posts Member
    We never intended to to include the WCS server in the Challenge. When the mistake was noted the damage was done anyway as players had already jumped to the occasion and started killing the Infected camps anyway. Interrupting the world another time to disable the challenge and going through with the inevitable compensation after the initial troubles with the shop seem unreasonable at the time and more troublesome to us and the players than to just let the challenge play out. I guess that's the best answer I can give you to the OPs question, even if not the most satisfying.

    These mistakes seem to happen frequently lately and seem to happen at the right time where it benefit a specific group. Geez, I wish I was that lucky.
  • ahahaha inzo next world need change name to your alliance, maybe they will still be wrong to your advantage.
  • inzomn1a
    37 posts Member
    ahahaha inzo next world need change name to your alliance, maybe they will still be wrong to your advantage.

    Not a joke, Sentie. This has become a very serious concern and if this is all that the devs can give us as explanation, then I think it's time we pursue other channels in voicing our concerns. Hundreds/thousands of players spend money on this game in hope to win but if the odds against them are incomprehensible, why bother.
  • gamerdruid
    2613 posts Moderator
    edited May 21
    @sentierorosso wrote: "when the referee becomes a player himself, the opponent has lost before starting." Back this up with evidence - who is the 'referee' playing? What is their username? What hard evidence have you that they are members of staff? (Not just that they are successful or 'seem' to know things others don't!)

    .....................................................

    bematz wrote: »
    > @gamerdruid said:
    > I don't have a 'JOB' with anyone connected with Envision or EA - I have a role on here to moderate the posts.
    >
    > Once again, you're making assumptions. I pay for the game too. I get what I pay for - credits to spend within the game.
    >
    > If you don't like the answers I give, then it's your problem not mine.

    atm you answer officially about the game, you are supposed to give official answers and not your basic point of view. As a moderator i think i can assume you know the way to report bad conduct from Envision or EA staff. could you please tell me who should i reach or the path to do so?

    thank you

    I do not answer officially - I am not 'supposed to give official answers' (I can't give them!) as I am not an official and I'm allowed to give my point of view or opinion. You can think and assume all you like, my only direct contact is with Envision employees and not EA staff.

    I can not tell you who to reach out to or the path to do so as I do not know!

    The tag line at the bottom says my position in every post:
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • EE_Elephterion
    1094 posts Envision Developer
    As I have already pointed out, the launch of the Challenge was a mistake that should not have happened. And I still think that no matter what, we would have upset players across the WCS further, regardless of what our course of action would have been.

    By the time we could be made aware of the launch of the challenge, some players had already started shooting Infested camps eagerly. Had we stopped the challenge right then, we would have advantaged those players over others, who had not had their opportunity. Continuing with the challenge active allowed at least for every player to gain some of the rewards.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. As for complaints to EA, if you bother to scroll down the forum, or really any other EA hosted website, you will find plenty of contact options to reach out to.

    That's all there is left to say in regards to that matter from my perspective. If you you want to continue this discussion feel free to do so, as long as it doesn't derail into profanity and flaming.
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison
  • "By the time we could be made aware of the launch of the challenge, some players had already started shooting Infested camps eagerly"......................yes shaffa players :-)
  • bematz
    11 posts Member
    > @EE_Elephterion said:
    > As I have already pointed out, the launch of the Challenge was a mistake that should not have happened. And I still think that no matter what, we would have upset players across the WCS further, regardless of what our course of action would have been.
    >
    > By the time we could be made aware of the launch of the challenge, some players had already started shooting Infested camps eagerly. Had we stopped the challenge right then, we would have advantaged those players over others, who had not had their opportunity. Continuing with the challenge active allowed at least for every player to gain some of the rewards.
    >
    > Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. As for complaints to EA, if you bother to scroll down the forum, or really any other EA hosted website, you will find plenty of contact options to reach out to.
    >
    > That's all there is left to say in regards to that matter from my perspective. If you you want to continue this discussion feel free to do so, as long as it doesn't derail into profanity and flaming.

    you are cleary not capable to have the role you have. your answers alrerady says it all. thanks for the reply, me and tons of other players are contacting EA about it.

    best regards
  • bematz
    11 posts Member
    > @EE_Elephterion said:
    > As I have already pointed out, the launch of the Challenge was a mistake that should not have happened. And I still think that no matter what, we would have upset players across the WCS further, regardless of what our course of action would have been.
    >
    > By the time we could be made aware of the launch of the challenge, some players had already started shooting Infested camps eagerly. Had we stopped the challenge right then, we would have advantaged those players over others, who had not had their opportunity. Continuing with the challenge active allowed at least for every player to gain some of the rewards.
    >
    > Damned if you do, damned if you don't I guess. As for complaints to EA, if you bother to scroll down the forum, or really any other EA hosted website, you will find plenty of contact options to reach out to.
    >
    > That's all there is left to say in regards to that matter from my perspective. If you you want to continue this discussion feel free to do so, as long as it doesn't derail into profanity and flaming.

    oh btw you WROTE it:

    Spring Challenge is now live!
    EE_Elephterion
    EE_Elephterion
    1019 POSTSDEVELOPER ›
    ENVISION DEVELOPER
    April 18, 2019 9:09AM
    The Spring Challange is now live. Shoot the Infected camps that appear around conquered POIs and gain repair time! The more Infected you defeat the better the rewards get!
    The challenge is currently available on all worlds except Veteran and PTE worlds. We noticed some worlds starting their challenge later then scheduled, we are looking into this already.
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison

    You had to time about cancel it on PTE and veteran but WCS havent come to your mind.

    i dont want to sound an idiot but in a place where there´s money envolved, this kind of "mistake" is very bad.
  • LaserDeth
    1 posts New member
    When patch 19.1 removed collaboration in base kills from the game, it was intended to remove a pervasive problem over years. A fundamental principle of the game was that it players should not use one account to feed another, but make gains with the CP and RT given to their account. The change implemented was in line with this principle, but since Schaffa members had just lost a server that proved they are not a multi-account inclined/proficient team, the implementation timing was questioned. The patch had very detrimental side-effects to the game, so it is obvious that the priority was to get the multi-accounting stopped before the WCS, rather than fix the problem well. This is not conspiracy theory.

    Developers claimed that it was not intentionally done to favor Schaffa, but favor them it did. For many of us, we were just glad the multi-accounting exploit was ended, and admittedly, the timing was questionable, but many of us believed the developers were unbiased working to make the game better.

    Then there was a controversy of a private interaction between developers and Schaffa. Although it was technically not a violation of ethics to speak to one team and not others, again it is an advantage to Schaffa. Instead of opening that advantage to others by meeting with other teams as well, developers said "the advantage was given to Schaffa but it will no longer be done" (paraphrasing). Developer bias now is definitive.

    Then there is a "mistake" that goes against game policy, and again it favors Schaffa. This detracts credibility from the previous timing not being intentional. It now screams favoritism, because regardless of whether or not there is a policy, the gray areas of ethics that are overstepped, and changes made to the game that are claimed "unintentional", everything consistently favors Schaffa. And again the attitude of developers is: "OK we gave a nugget to Schaffa and we were aware of it and allowed it ride out, but we will not do it again".

    Developer credibility is now non-existent to me. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want, but it is a fact, that there are very many players, who like me, realistically expect more changes in the future, that will be recklessly implemented, and will coincidentally favor Schaffa in their time of need, and that makes the game lose value.

    It is a very unfortunate situation in my opinion.
  • x-HiWay-x
    10 posts Member
    edited May 21
    There is no denying that the challenge screwed up the WCS irreparably. The whole strategy of the server against the defending champions, Schaffa, was made moot if not entirely flipped on its head. The intent was deprive them of RT early with skirmishing while one alliance pushed ahead to force a RT unfriendly dig pace for them to catch up. Forcing early base 2 switches instead of base 3+ meant there was not nearly as much time to back build RT stores before moving the main army. While they were contending with this, their opposing faction was sitting comfortably with 15-20 days RT in mains while growing cash bases because there was simply not enough RT from them to pose offensive threat. The scales were quickly approaching an asymptotic tipping point.

    The event changed it, regardless of what observers think in terms of Schaffa being aware or unaware that the event was coming, the 7 days RT is all that was needed to counter the strategy we had put forth. They are intelligent players and clearly immediately knew it, as did many watching. The dig pattern immediately changed, players were seemingly forced to donate kills to some monster Schaffa mains to counter our cash base plan now that just enough RT was available to do so. The plan was sound, great strategy and a carpe diem moment for sure, however, none of this would have happened had this event never occurred. This is what everyone is upset about. While we all had the opportunity for 7 days RT, some needed it far more than others.

    The responses in this forum seemingly blowing off any responsibility by the powers that be to acknowledge that the CHAMPIONSHIP was compromised by poor development oversight and patch management simply further agitates the situation.

    HiWay
    Post edited by x-HiWay-x on
  • Hi guys,

    Time has come for me to write a bit here as well.

    First of all - GameDruid - can you please stop answering? You do not understand much - that is clear and your signature "I am not employed by anyone" is a disgrace to what ever you write - I do not understand what function you have.

    Second of all - EA Community Manager - where are you? Do you even exist??? Last wave of complains former EA Community Manager - Mr_Roger was silent - I wrote PM to him - no reply. Now you changed community manager to someone else - will this person also remain silent? Is it a part of his job description "I am a EA Community Manager, but I don't need to manage anything?"

    Regarding the issue at hand - there are facts that we know:

    Spring challenge started on world champ - never before it did start on any former World Champion Servers, Envision says it should not have started - but it did anyway.

    It started about 19th of April and lasted 3 whole days - no one did anything to stop it - 74 hours of doing nothing - why? You wrote us why - someone started to shoot infection - you decided not to intervene. Well World Champ started also unexpectedly - and you allowed to buy RT packages - many bought, but you did stop it and refund those who did. In one case you do stop something that went wrong, in another you don't - what are you? A bunch of 5 year olds??? Cannot be consistent?

    When it started - Novice was 60!!!!!!!! 60 steps away with our main bases from the nearest POI where we could activate the challenge - so yes GameDruid - do shut up - and everyone who says that everyone could get equal benefit from it. Shaffa stopped digging - they went for challenge directly - we on the other hand were in front in digging. You understand the problem now?

    Envision already had one battle with me - you lost, I thought you guys got the point, but no you did not and we will bring clarity to what has happened on this world champ - mark my words - we will.

    Best Regards
    Cross

  • gamerdruid
    2613 posts Moderator
    As you directly address me, I will reply! I think you do full well understand the role of a forum moderator, professing ignorance of such a role doesn't help in any way.

    If the truth is a disgrace, then so be it! I can't help the fact that I am not employed by EA or Envision or for that matter anyone else. If you know different then please tell me where the payment is going, it's not into my bank account!
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • XCrossover70
    36 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Can you then please moderate and not try to answer questions you have no answers to?
  • EA Community Manager - it is daytime in USA now - and you know where all of this is heading - section 15 of EAUA agreement. Do continue to keep silent if you like - last time we did not send the letter, this time we will.

    Best Regards
    Cross
  • XCrossover70
    36 posts Member
    edited May 21
    Mr or Miss EA Community Manager - if you think that Section 15, provision F, subsection 1 limits your risks - you are wrong, very wrong.

    We are not stupid either you know - we start by sending you 1 letter that is on behalf of 1 of our main alliances in the Coalition that still participates on ongoing world champ - we win or we loose, that is besides the point - we have enough money to loose and pay for it.

    If we win in the arbitration - well rain of free money for everyone else who is in the same position - print screen of the letter - change signature - soon you are looking at another 900 + similar letters from every member of the Coalition who feels that he got screwed by incompetent Devs. Incentive to send the letter - easy money of cause.

    Now I think I painted you whole picture - let's start moving towards it and see what happens. I did quit world champ server today because what your counterparty Envision Entertainment had accomplished so far - now I have a lot of free time on my hands to implement the above mentioned steps.

    Best Regards
    Cross

    Post edited by XCrossover70 on
  • gamerdruid
    2613 posts Moderator
    I hope none of those live in the many areas excluded. " IT EXCLUDES RESIDENTS OF QUEBEC, RUSSIA, SWITZERLAND, BRAZIL, MEXICO, THE MEMBER STATES OF THE EEA, UNITED KINGDOM AND THE REPUBLIC OF KOREA".

    EEA includes the EU.
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • I may be interpreting this incorrectly, but that arbitration statement under the TOS in full is:

    THIS SECTION APPLIES TO ALL CONSUMERS AND PEOPLE WHO ACCEPTED THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IT EXCLUDES RESIDENTS OF QUEBEC, RUSSIA, SWITZERLAND, BRAZIL, MEXICO, THE MEMBER STATES OF THE EEA, UNITED KINGDOM AND THE REPUBLIC OF KOREA. BY ACCEPTING THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU AND EA EXPRESSLY WAIVE THE RIGHT TO A TRIAL BY JURY AND THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION.

    My case law is a little rusty, but what that statement means is that players of Tiberium Alliances that live in the excluded countries are not bound to arbitration first under the TOS. Rather, they can file a legal action against EA without going through arbitration first.

    Additionally, arbitration is still legally binding. If misconduct of employee(s)s of EA is discovered as a part of the arbitration process, part of the settlement could include disciplinary action or termination of said employee(s).

    If EA cannot resolve these serious user complaints of employee misconduct informally, they are required by law to pay part of the cost of the arbitration (and fully if the arbitrator rules in favor of the user) at which point a settlement will try to be met.

    If you want to shrug off these issues, that's fine, but the legal implications are very real.









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