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Mechanics of Spawning Camps and Outposts

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Spawning Mechanics of Camps

• Camps are spawned by any base that has an army in it regardless of whether a base has a CC or not.

• The level of camps is the maximum of either the defense or offense level rounded down. E.G. – Level 29.9 defense will be considered level 29 defense and thus spawn level 28 through Level 32 camps.

• Camps levels that are spawned are between -1 and + 3 of the highest level between offense or defense. E.G. – Player base has level 20 offense level and level 25 defense level. Forgotten camps that are spawned will be between level 24 and level 28.

• At Level 50 and higher, camps are spawned at -1 to 0 of the highest of defense or offense level.

• Every base with an offense will spawn two camps after the first farming quests are done at the start of the server (typically 10 total shots on the Forgotten).

• Currently, the level of camps spawned is purely random between the ranges. Unlike outposts, the player's base level does not impact the probability of higher level camps spawning.


Spawning Mechanics of Outposts

• Tunnels are activated by any offense that is -6 levels or above of the tunnel level and within 4.5 spaces of tunnel. Example: Level 20 tunnel is activated by any offense with level 14 or higher.

• A tunnel is fully activated by 5 bases with the right offense level (25% probability outpost spawn every hour with 100% probability spawn every hour with 5 bases). A tunnel needs to be fully activated to guarantee spawning an outpost every hour.

• A tunnel will spawn an outpost up to 6.5 spaces away from the tunnel that is activated.

• The maximum number of visible outposts visible for a tunnel is 10. That means a fully activated tunnel will have a total of 10 outposts visibly spawned, with the remaining outposts that have been "spawned" waiting in "queue". That's assuming a tunnel has been activated for more than 10 hours.

• Currently, guidance has been unclear of whether a follow-up outpost counts towards the 1-hour outpost spawning mechanism. As it stands, the understanding is that a fully activated tunnel has a limit of spawning 24 outposts in a day.

• Camps do not impact the ability to spawn outposts.

• Low offense levels do not impact the spawning of outposts once there are 5 outposts that have activated the tunnels.

• Tunnels will spawn outposts -2 to +2 of the tunnel level.

• The average level of outpost spawned or respawned by a follow-up is a function of the average level of player bases within 4.5 spaces of the tunnel. What this means is that as the average player base level increases around a tunnel, the probability increases for higher level outposts.

Current as of 20.1 Update

Replies

  • Grimraven85
    11 posts Member
    edited October 10
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    Spawning Mechanics of Outposts

    • The average level of outpost spawned or respawned by a follow-up is a function of the average level of player bases within 4.5 spaces of the tunnel. What this means is that as the average player base level increases around a tunnel, the probability increases for higher level outposts.

    Current as of 20.1 Update

    Could someone please clarify, if "base level" here is referred to base's offence level, or is it the actual base level ( which increases as you upgrade base's buildings ) ?
  • SpeirFein wrote: »
    Spawning Mechanics of Outposts

    • The average level of outpost spawned or respawned by a follow-up is a function of the average level of player bases within 4.5 spaces of the tunnel. What this means is that as the average player base level increases around a tunnel, the probability increases for higher level outposts.

    Current as of 20.1 Update

    Could someone please clarify, if "base level" here is referred to base's offence level, or is it the actual base level ( which increases as you upgrade base's buildings ) ?


    "base level" in this context is the higher of the base defense or offense (with POI bonus).
  • additions/corrections:
    the camps spawn within distance 6.5 of the base
    while for camps max of defense (D) and offense (O) is what matters, for outposts only base offense levels (O) matter (not base buildings, not defense), also rounded down to whole numbers
    my most recent experience has been that tunnels (level T) spawn in the range [T-2,T-1] if O<T, and [T+1,T+2] if O>=T
    so I doubt that the average of offenses that activate a tunnel has an impact at all
    with the most recent update (at least on PTE) outposts spawn if O>=T-7, and the levels of camps and outposts are now reported with precision 0.01, so it is easier to check which base/tunnel a camp/outposts was spawned by
  • chertosha wrote: »
    additions/corrections:
    the camps spawn within distance 6.5 of the base

    I've never experienced this, but code is frequently different for all worlds.

    The core code is the following;
    Camps shall spawn within 20 CP (10 clicks) of the base responsible and Outposts shall spawn within 10 clicks of the tunnel.

    ...which may or may not have been altered for some worlds.



  • Grimraven85
    11 posts Member
    edited October 11
    Soixie wrote: »

    "base level" in this context is the higher of the base defense or offense (with POI bonus).

    Ok, well in that case, I would urge someone to investigate Firestorm 14 server, as there are plenty of players who have bases with lvl 62-63 offence levels, but I have yet to see activated Tunnel Exits of level 62 or 63 spawning outposts greater than lvl 61. I believe it might be a bug, and I would love to see it fixed ( if confirmed )

  • Soixie wrote: »
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    Spawning Mechanics of Outposts

    • The average level of outpost spawned or respawned by a follow-up is a function of the average level of player bases within 4.5 spaces of the tunnel. What this means is that as the average player base level increases around a tunnel, the probability increases for higher level outposts.

    Current as of 20.1 Update

    Could someone please clarify, if "base level" here is referred to base's offence level, or is it the actual base level ( which increases as you upgrade base's buildings ) ?


    "base level" in this context is the higher of the base defense or offense (with POI bonus).

    No Soixie, he means the actual Base level. I have heard it said before though I am not entirely convinced of it's veracity.
  • This here is still the current implementation for spawning Outposts
    enigm wrote: »
    While we're on the topic of Tunnel Exits let me use the opportunity to explain how they're activated and work in general. In order to activate the tunnel exit your base needs to be in a 4.5 field radius around the tunnel and your offense level should not be lower than 6 levels below the level of the tunnel. All bases meeting these criterias are then counted and together with percentage values for the spawn chance used in the formula to calculate if an outpost spawns or not. To garantuee that an outpost is spawned 5 bases are needed. Once the system decides to spawn an outpost it looks within a radius of 6.5 fields to find a suitable place to spawn an outpost. The system will spawn a new outpost every 60 minutes until the maximum of 10 outposts is reached.
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison
  • Soixie
    487 posts Member
    edited October 18
    Soixie wrote: »
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    Spawning Mechanics of Outposts

    • The average level of outpost spawned or respawned by a follow-up is a function of the average level of player bases within 4.5 spaces of the tunnel. What this means is that as the average player base level increases around a tunnel, the probability increases for higher level outposts.

    Current as of 20.1 Update

    Could someone please clarify, if "base level" here is referred to base's offence level, or is it the actual base level ( which increases as you upgrade base's buildings ) ?


    "base level" in this context is the higher of the base defense or offense (with POI bonus).

    No Soixie, he means the actual Base level. I have heard it said before though I am not entirely convinced of it's veracity.

    Physical Base level is meaningless and not used in the calculation/code. Outposts and camps are triggered by the higher of the base Offense or Defense (if an offense is present).

  • This here is still the current implementation for spawning Outposts

    Would you mind checking Firestorm 14? Plenty of players have level 62-63 offence levels around level 62-63 Tunnel Exits, but the highest level outpost we have seen is 61.

  • This here is still the current implementation for spawning Outposts

    Would you mind checking Firestorm 14? Plenty of players have level 62-63 offence levels around level 62-63 Tunnel Exits, but the highest level outpost we have seen is 61.

    Is this still occurring? I'm not on an "80 world", but outposts are supposed to spawn -1/+3 randomly.

    62 Tunnel: spawn 61-65 Outposts, triggered by any 56+
    63 Tunnel: Spawn 62-66 outposts, triggered by any 57+

    What I'm guessing is happening is that Outposts got hit with the "50 rule" from camps. At level 50 and above, the +3 is replaced with a 0 (zero).
  • SpeirFein
    53 posts Member
    edited October 21
    @EE_Elephterion or @enigm,

    Can you confirm a few things so I can update the page if things have changed in recent updates?

    1. Per Soixie's statement, do level 50+ outposts follow the level 50 rule for camps? Level 50+ outposts are spawned at or under the level of the highest of defense or offense level of a base activating a tunnel. It sounds like this may be a bug if outposts are to still follow the outpost spawning rule instead of reverting to the level 50 camp rule.

    2. Per the most recent guidance provided, Soixie is incorrect with -1 +3 for outposts. This level range is for camps only. Outposts are spawned at -2 + 2 of the offense level only of the base activating the tunnel.

    3. Please confirm that tunnels are activated by eligible bases that are within 4.5 spaces of a tunnel, and outposts are spawned within 6.5 spaces of the tunnel activated. Has this changed in recent updates, and does this rule apply to all worlds?

    4. The physical base level impacts the probability of what level of outpost is spawned. Current guidance states that the following:
    The offense level of a base determines whether a tunnel is activated or not (-6 or higher). To fully activate a tunnel, 5 qualified offense level bases must be within 4.5 spaces.

    The average physical level of a base determines which level of outpost is likely spawned. For instance, if the average players base level is under the activated tunnel's level (player base level 10, tunnel level is 15); the probability is higher for outposts to spawn under Level 15 is very high. If, the average physical base level is equal to the level of tunnel activated (player base level 15, tunnel level is 15), the probability of level 15 outposts spawned is greater. And if the average level of player's bases are greater than the level of the activated tunnel, then outpost levels greater than the tunnel level (up to +2) have a higher probability of being spawned.

    5. Current guidance states that the level of camps spawned is truly random.

    Please confirm when able. Thank you!

    I recommend that until the developers confirm changes to follow the farming guidance set forth in my original post as those are the statements asked and confirmed by the developers of the game. Any other assumptions are speculative and/or inaccurate.

    Lastly, there may be some mechanics of farming that the developers may not wish to provide. In these cases, I'll ask clarification on which mechanics will not be disclosed and I'll provide that information in the original post. In these instances, player experimentation and confirmation will be used to provide as accurate a guideline as possible.

    Farm on.
  • Soixie
    487 posts Member
    edited October 21
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    @EE_Elephterion or @enigm,

    Can you confirm a few things so I can update the page if things have changed in recent updates?

    1. Per Soixie's statement, do level 50+ outposts follow the level 50 rule for camps? Level 50+ outposts are spawned at or under the level of the highest of defense or offense level of a base activating a tunnel. It sounds like this may be a bug if outposts are to still follow the outpost spawning rule instead of reverting to the level 50 camp rule.

    2. Per the most recent guidance provided, Soixie is incorrect with -1 +3 for outposts. This level range is for camps only. Outposts are spawned at -2 + 2 of the offense level only of the base activating the tunnel.
    ...

    hmm, wasn't a statement per-se, more of a question to devs based on @Grimraven85 's observations that outposts are acting more like camps.

    Also, we'll need clarification to outpost levels. We have 50s spawning from 45 tunnels on older worlds (+5) . I I know different servers have different code, but if you're experiencing -2/+2 for outposts on your world then outposts are coded different as well.

  • Thanks for the clarification Soixie.
  • SpeirFein wrote: »
    @EE_Elephterion or @enigm,

    Can you confirm a few things so I can update the page if things have changed in recent updates?

    1. Per Soixie's statement, do level 50+ outposts follow the level 50 rule for camps? Level 50+ outposts are spawned at or under the level of the highest of defense or offense level of a base activating a tunnel. It sounds like this may be a bug if outposts are to still follow the outpost spawning rule instead of reverting to the level 50 camp rule.
    Outposts above level 50 behave and spawn like OPs below level 51 and Idk why they would differ.
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    3. Per the most recent guidance provided, Soixie is incorrect with -1 +3 for outposts. This level range is for camps only. Outposts are spawned at -2 + 2 of the offense level only of the base activating the tunnel.
    I'd have to look that exact number up but it seems correct iirc.
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    3. Please confirm that tunnels are activated by eligible bases that are within 4.5 spaces of a tunnel, and outposts are spawned within 6.5 spaces of the tunnel activated. Has this changed in recent updates, and does this rule apply to all worlds?
    I am unaware of any changes to the radii recently or in the past.
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    4. The physical base level impacts the probability of what level of outpost is spawned. Current guidance states that the following:
    The offense level of a base determines whether a tunnel is activated or not (-6 or less). To fully activate a tunnel, 5 qualified offense level bases must be within 4.5 spaces.

    [..]
    That is correct afaik.
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    5. Current guidance states that the level of camps spawned is truly random.
    Camps are spawned basically from a players base, and their level depends on the level of that base. I'd have to look it up again on which level exactly it depends, but there is a certain +/- range with which the camps spawn.
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison
  • SpeirFein wrote: »
    @EE_Elephterion or @enigm,

    Can you confirm a few things so I can update the page if things have changed in recent updates?

    1. Per Soixie's statement, do level 50+ outposts follow the level 50 rule for camps? Level 50+ outposts are spawned at or under the level of the highest of defense or offense level of a base activating a tunnel. It sounds like this may be a bug if outposts are to still follow the outpost spawning rule instead of reverting to the level 50 camp rule.
    Outposts above level 50 behave and spawn like OPs below level 51 and Idk why they would differ.
    SpeirFein wrote: »
    3. Per the most recent guidance provided, Soixie is incorrect with -1 +3 for outposts. This level range is for camps only. Outposts are spawned at -2 + 2 of the offense level only of the base activating the tunnel.
    I'd have to look that exact number up but it seems correct iirc.


    If we could verify please. I believe this is the contention in the thread, players from 3 different servers are all reporting something different. Especially with the levels lifted.
  • @EE_Elephterion thank you so much for your response! Please post when able to confirm that camp level is influenced by a players base level as well and what the +/- range is.
  • Soixie wrote: »
    This here is still the current implementation for spawning Outposts

    Would you mind checking Firestorm 14? Plenty of players have level 62-63 offence levels around level 62-63 Tunnel Exits, but the highest level outpost we have seen is 61.

    Is this still occurring? I'm not on an "80 world", but outposts are supposed to spawn -1/+3 randomly.

    62 Tunnel: spawn 61-65 Outposts, triggered by any 56+
    63 Tunnel: Spawn 62-66 outposts, triggered by any 57+

    What I'm guessing is happening is that Outposts got hit with the "50 rule" from camps. At level 50 and above, the +3 is replaced with a 0 (zero).

    Yes, it does.
    I log in daily and have not seen outpost higher than lvl 61 anywhere.
    Check this screenshot - we have lvl 68 camps but only lvl 60-61 outposts.
    https://ibb.co/cvVGJxw
  • Soixie wrote: »
    This here is still the current implementation for spawning Outposts

    Would you mind checking Firestorm 14? Plenty of players have level 62-63 offence levels around level 62-63 Tunnel Exits, but the highest level outpost we have seen is 61.

    Is this still occurring? I'm not on an "80 world", but outposts are supposed to spawn -1/+3 randomly.

    62 Tunnel: spawn 61-65 Outposts, triggered by any 56+
    63 Tunnel: Spawn 62-66 outposts, triggered by any 57+

    What I'm guessing is happening is that Outposts got hit with the "50 rule" from camps. At level 50 and above, the +3 is replaced with a 0 (zero).

    Yes, it does.
    I log in daily and have not seen outpost higher than lvl 61 anywhere.
    Check this screenshot - we have lvl 68 camps but only lvl 60-61 outposts.
    https://ibb.co/cvVGJxw

    Erghads. There are a few things going on here.

    1st - Outposts need room to spawn.
    2nd - If people have been farming outposts, you should have seen level 64+ outposts by now

    Side conversation, those base placement layouts are considered a 2x2 grid. Bases this close are great for PVP/defense, but absolutely horrible for farming properly. If center absolutely must be packed with spare bases, try and run a 3x3 grid instead and focus on mains first. On one of my servers, we have mains only on the east side and trash/hitter bases on the west side of fortress. Pure farm area in a 3x3 grid, we have room for days for all spawns.

    No response yet on what the Outpost code was intended to be regarding levels, or if camps were changed.
  • hmmm, you bring a valid point of old outposts needing to be cleared, but don't they de-spawn at some point? I will do some testing and shoot some old outposts just to see.
    As for farming efficiency, nobody cares anymore. 1st and 2nd badge is taken, I am just sticking around to test, mess around and see how far I can grow...
  • hmmm, you bring a valid point of old outposts needing to be cleared, but don't they de-spawn at some point? I will do some testing and shoot some old outposts just to see.
    As for farming efficiency, nobody cares anymore. 1st and 2nd badge is taken, I am just sticking around to test, mess around and see how far I can grow...

    Grimraven,

    My understanding based on current guidance is the following:

    1. Once an outpost is spawned, it will not disappear on its own. That happens by either:
    a. Destroying NPC, or
    b. Landing on outpost with a player base which will spawn the outpost on another coordinate spawn within the tunnel area.

    2. Camps will disappear after a while without killing it or landing on it. I don't know the specifics to this, but it appears random within a range of time.

    3. To Soixie's point, outposts will replace camps, but not existing outposts. To maximize spawn area (depends on tunnel cluster), simply ensure that every tunnel is activated by no more than 5 bases. On an active farming world, I would still recommend a tight cluster of 2x2 (and PvP purposes), but that is because outposts are shot quickly due to active farming. 3x3 makes sense to control more area (and more tunnels) if there isn't any issue of PvP. Soixie's recommendation of having best bases on the interior with worst bases (in terms of offense level and player base level) at the perimeter is excellent advice.
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