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Why moderator close Topic?
I think many want talk around this question.

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  • Statement regarding current player-developer relations


    EE_Elephterion
    848 postsDeveloper ›
    Envision Developer
    March 4, 2019 7:07PM
    Hello Community,

    recently there has been some commotion about the news that part of the development team has had a voice chat conversation with a small group of players from the community, namely players who won the World Championship in the past.

    This has caused the impression for some players that there is unfair or privileged treatment among players, and that there is a select group that is being favored by us, the developers. I’ll address these concerns and clear up any misconceptions.

    First, let me state that the mentioned conversation happened between developers of Envision Entertainment and a group of players only, there were no representatives of EA involved or aware of.
    Participants in that voice call were, as developers, @enigm and myself; and on the other side the previous winners of WCS 2015 and WCS 2017 @nuubal , @kOeGy and several others of their fellow players. That call happened around noon of February 27th 2019.

    This meeting was initiated by nuubal who invited us. We have had conversations like these in the past with players who approached us directly and we accepted this invitation to connect with players and get insights that were not shared on the forum. This has happened after the WCS 2015 and in the recent past when the post combat lockdown mechanic was subject to exploitation strategies. We have gained some valuable intelligence by this and therefore we acted in good faith.

    I want to let the community know that we understand that they take issue with such practice, or rather specifically that this was not disclosed in any way before. I apologize if this is indeed a concern to players. It did not occur to us that there was any more interest in disclosing this any further than in direct messages send to us on the forum.

    We have these channels so that players can share their thoughts with us directly and we appreciate it as an effective way to relay information to us in the same way we also appreciate public discussion on the forum.

    Regarding the contents of the TeamSpeak conversation mentioned, I can tell the community that the players involved have provided some valuable feedback regarding the changes we made with Patch 19.1, specifically they were able to confirm that there currently is a bug with the distribution of resources. I want to state that we did not approach them specifically for feedback, they invited us to join and listen to them. I think this is a detail that was missed during the previous discussion, we did not pick these players out of the community to specifically give us feedback. We try to involve as many sources as possible for our development efforts.

    Another concern that the community voiced was the upcoming World Championship and the timing of this meeting. In hindsight this might come at an unfortunate point in time with the WCS at the horizon. But we did not want to delay further development and wanted feedback quickly.

    The only question they asked during the TS conversation was about the WCS was when we would make the official announcement. To this we replied vaguely with a timeframe of “today or tomorrow”. That was the everything that was mentioned in the direction of that topic. We posted the full announcement of the WCS rules on the following day, February 28, for everyone on the forum.

    As I said multiple times in the past, we are still open to feedback from any direction and we do want to continue to have different channels open for players to approach us. This will also include voice chats. Those are a quick way to get feedback and are done by various developers across all sorts of games.

    We do not favor any player of group of players over another and while we listen everyone’s feedback, we also try to make sure to balance everyone’s viewpoint and maintain a view on the bigger picture.

    Currently we are planning more changes to address issues that have been raised about the changes to loot distribution that we introduced recently. At this point I want to restate that we do not rely on single sources or suggestions for feedback and there is simply no point for us in tailoring solutions to a certain group of players.

    With this statement we would like to get back to a more constructive discussion on how to work together, as a community, and to improve of the game.
  • We do want to transfer it here - because the owner of the thread decided to close it upon emerging.
  • Towards the community we would like to say following:

    Unless someone missed the point - we do represent a fair bunch of people who go to world champ. I would have said majority - but well -we are modest ones.

    As it was said before on the other thread - we do want to have 100 % transparency towards the rest of the community. And devs did schedule a meeting it with us as well - Wednesday or Thursday this week. I actually don't anymore - from the answers we got from them understand who is working for who - that is something we all need to find out as well, but let's want and see.

    Best Regards
    Cross

  • dron101dron
    1 posts New member
    account kOeGy blocked for breaking the rules? if not, please unblock after 5 years my account andrewww0005 ;)
  • gamerdruid
    3590 posts Moderator
    You need to understand that blocking and unblocking of players is done by EA and not Envision. Yes, Envision have a direct route to EA support that players don't, but they can't do the unblocking. Getting another player blocked, as you're suggesting here is also an EA decision. You need to use the system provided to action that. Questions here about both blocking and unblocking specific accounts are unlikely to produce the result you desire.
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • gamerdruid
    3590 posts Moderator
    Why moderator close Topic?
    I think many want talk around this question.

    You know why the previous discussion was closed, by @EE_Elephterion not a moderator. The discussion was going off-topic a great deal and also the developers needed time to discuss the concerns. The length of the thread made it difficult enough with the same points being made, often by the same people.

    This discussion is about the statement and is a follow on. If it goes 'off topic' then it will also be closed.
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • We have had conversations like these in the past with players who approached us directly and we accepted this invitation to connect with players and get insights that were not shared on the forum. This has happened after the WCS 2015 and in the recent past when the post combat lockdown mechanic was subject to exploitation strategies. We have gained some valuable intelligence by this and therefore we acted in good faith.

    I find this a bit hard to believe to be honest. The subject of 'locking' was a pretty prominent talking point in the forum and in game for quite some time. If Developers only learned of this through a Teamspeak conversation recently, then they are simply not reading the forum or paying attention to input from 'average players'.



  • It seems quite funny that the discussion from the previous post on the same name focuses on the WCS, Update 19.1 and some alleged favoritism about the star players who often win the WCS. I myself have never joined the WCS, but with all that commotion, I don't suppose the same commotion could occur if all the players participating in the chat are part of the same alliance. That is, there is only 1 alliance and your either part of it or not. The alliance is meant to hold all players and if there is a heated argument, why not settle the score by beating the lights out of each other's bases. E.g. you are allowed to attack your alliance member, even the CiC if you hate him. I would want for once peace within the community, no rivalry between alliance and players from other alliances would always cooperate in any way.
  • ODirtyBstrd
    2 posts New member
    The "nVidia" teams of today and the past are very good make no mistake about it, and the relationships or communications members have now, or in the past with devs isn't new. Hell, Opa and others openly talked about helping work through issues early on in the forums. These side talks, although seemingly outside the rules are quite common. I've played in alliances with and against a lot of them over the years and the one thing that is hard for people to understand unless you've seen it firsthand is the amount of TIME these guys put in to the worlds they are looking to compete. When you have 24x7 activity you will never sneak up on them. When they know all players from their alliance you will never steal information. When they share account information you will never catch them doing what they don't want to do. It's a machine; far more than just upping caps and digging, these guys go in shifts. I'd like to beat them one day, but just like every other alliance on servers where they are playing, it's a huge undertaking.

    Look on T38, they are running an alliance called Test 19.1 to make sure they understand the mechanics of the latest patch prior to the WCS. I see two other alliances doing similar...but most aren't "training". It's frustrating for sure, but it's the way games work. Money won't fix all problems.
  • Look on T38, they are running an alliance called Test 19.1 to make sure they understand the mechanics of the latest patch prior to the WCS. I see two other alliances doing similar...but most aren't "training". It's frustrating for sure, but it's the way games work. Money won't fix all problems.
    So their the ones behind why my alliance lost 1st place? Were they doing things very effeciently. I joined that world under a game-exclusive alt. That very account never participated in the forums, and this one here doesn't join new worlds. What exactly were they doing and how were they able to move fast when my alliance had the lead as 1st place? I was once a member of an alliance called the wolf pack. I left the alliance after seeing that we were too slow and like half were new players.

  • ODirtyBstrd
    2 posts New member
    > @Shinerplunderer said:
    > ODirtyBstrd wrote: »
    >
    > Look on T38, they are running an alliance called Test 19.1 to make sure they understand the mechanics of the latest patch prior to the WCS. I see two other alliances doing similar...but most aren't "training". It's frustrating for sure, but it's the way games work. Money won't fix all problems.
    >
    >
    >
    > So their the ones behind why my alliance lost 1st place? Were they doing things very effeciently. I joined that world under a game-exclusive alt. That very account never participated in the forums, and this one here doesn't join new worlds. What exactly were they doing and how were they able to move fast when my alliance had the lead as 1st place? I was once a member of an alliance called the wolf pack. I left the alliance after seeing that we were too slow and like half were new players.

    They dig as an alliance of one, not one alliance of fifty.
  • Why is game's developers talking with members of WCS wining alliances??
    At least, when others are hiding elephterion is sincere, but why?? Talk over the PTE or forums about game issues, not prior to WCS or during the championship.

    Is it ever possible to have a fair championship server?
  • Was Test 19.1's aim to claim the fortress or was it to test the most recent changes only? Besides, I didn't last long in that alliance cause of our dig positions. We had 2 small digs and an ally was in-between. We could 't help each other if we wanted to. The distance to jump was simply too large.
  • The "nVidia" teams of today and the past are very good make no mistake about it, and the relationships or communications members have now, or in the past with devs isn't new. Hell, Opa and others openly talked about helping work through issues early on in the forums. These side talks, although seemingly outside the rules are quite common. I've played in alliances with and against a lot of them over the years and the one thing that is hard for people to understand unless you've seen it firsthand is the amount of TIME these guys put in to the worlds they are looking to compete. When you have 24x7 activity you will never sneak up on them. When they know all players from their alliance you will never steal information. When they share account information you will never catch them doing what they don't want to do. It's a machine; far more than just upping caps and digging, these guys go in shifts. I'd like to beat them one day, but just like every other alliance on servers where they are playing, it's a huge undertaking.

    Look on T38, they are running an alliance called Test 19.1 to make sure they understand the mechanics of the latest patch prior to the WCS. I see two other alliances doing similar...but most aren't "training". It's frustrating for sure, but it's the way games work. Money won't fix all problems.

    The problem is not whether they are good or not, but if others study how to beat them and beat them (look at tib 37) you can not change the rules before the WCS on their suggestion.......and other question is they admit in public share login and this is against TOS.
    But you think is normal they speak with developer-team and DT change rules and adapt the game to their style?.
    Me not
  • EE_Elephterion
    1546 posts Envision Developer
    The problem is not whether they are good or not, but if others study how to beat them and beat them (look at tib 37) you can not change the rules before the WCS on their suggestion.......and other question is they admit in public share login and this is against TOS.
    But you think is normal they speak with developer-team and DT change rules and adapt the game to their style?.
    Me not

    I am still waiting for your input on why we changed the game following input from specific players? Our conversation with the winners of the last WCS winners happened AFTER the patch went live on all servers, they where never part of the design decision in the first place.
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison
  • The problem is not whether they are good or not, but if others study how to beat them and beat them (look at tib 37) you can not change the rules before the WCS on their suggestion.......and other question is they admit in public share login and this is against TOS.
    But you think is normal they speak with developer-team and DT change rules and adapt the game to their style?.
    Me not

    I am still waiting for your input on why we changed the game following input from specific players? Our conversation with the winners of the last WCS winners happened AFTER the patch went live on all servers, they where never part of the design decision in the first place.

    not trying to call you out .. but we only have your word for it .. we would like to have some proof it happened after the patch went up live .. as to me and many others it looks very suspicious that you guys talk to the winners and it looks favourable to them ... be open and share the dialogues .. and talk with other alliances .. not look like coseying up to one set only !!
  • MainelyYoda2
    16 posts New member
    WCS 2019 has to be delayed at this point so everyone can learn the new rule set
  • theres only one way WCS can be taken seriously .. ABSOLUTELY NO FUNDS SPENT on server .. no rt packsges , no cp packages and skills only used .. see who wins on even keel for ALL
  • server mite take a while but it will show the players real skills
  • The problem is not whether they are good or not, but if others study how to beat them and beat them (look at tib 37) you can not change the rules before the WCS on their suggestion.......and other question is they admit in public share login and this is against TOS.
    But you think is normal they speak with developer-team and DT change rules and adapt the game to their style?.
    Me not

    I am still waiting for your input on why we changed the game following input from specific players? Our conversation with the winners of the last WCS winners happened AFTER the patch went live on all servers, they where never part of the design decision in the first place.

    You wait me? this is really fun!
    you , who in this game are the referee, you meet a part and I have to prove when it happened?
    before dunring or after is equal, problem is that you met, it does not take long to understand it.
    Many have lost confidence only one party has approved what you have done, is it a case?
    We try to be serious please and give back credibility to the game and fun for everyone without doubts!
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