Guardian interaction issue with anti-infantry barrier

Shinerplunderer · March 6, 2019 1:18PM

Is this the place to report bugs about tiberium alliances? I've been dealing with this bug ever since I started playing TA on world 98 or something. Its one of the reason why I don't like playing as GDI. GDI lacks a repair discount on one key unit, the mammoth. That issue and this:

Can anyone tell me why the guardian is affected by the anti-infantry barrier, even though it doesn't outright kill it. I tried testing it on the reckoner, same doesn't happen.

gamerdruid · March 6, 2019 3:05PM

You could ask the same about a number of forgotten def units - the reaper affects all units, the description says infantry and so on.

EE_Elephterion · March 6, 2019 3:09PM

The idea behind this was afaik that wheeler based vehicles take damage from barbed wire, treaded vehicles don't. The Reckoner being a halftrack, so kinda falls in between.

Ultimately it was a decision made for balance reasons, but I can't comment on the reasoning here as that was before my time. I think it was supposed to give the few vehicles in the early stage of Nod gameplay an edge to keep up with the GDI, which on the other hand have an additional RT sink.

Whether this is good or bad is ofc open for discussion.

Shinerplunderer · March 7, 2019 1:20AM

Besides the guardian, which other vehicles take damage from anti-infantry barriers? Are they any other GDI or Nod vehicles affected by this issue? Its relatively minor, and I don't like playing GDI that much cause of repair time issues. Does the Bowler react the same way in Forgotten Attacks world?

EE_Elephterion wrote: »

The idea behind this was afaik that wheeler based vehicles take damage from barbed wire

So this means that the pitbull would take damage if it ignorantly went forward while attacking? Also are avatar warmechs affected by this?

EE_Elephterion · March 7, 2019 9:48AM

Shinerplunderer wrote: »

So this means that the pitbull would take damage if it ignorantly went forward while attacking? Also are avatar warmechs affected by this?

Yes, same for the Nod Attack Bike, but since Bike and Pitbull are anti-structure vehicles, they prioritize these targets and will keep attacking those first.

Nod Avatar, and GDI Juggernaut, are a third category of vehicles, 'walkers'. They do not take damage from the anti-infantry structures and they do the most trample damage. They also can trample other vehicles, due to their size, regular vehicles only trample infantry iirc.

Shinerplunderer · March 7, 2019 10:06AM

EE_Elephterion wrote: »

Yes, same for the Nod Attack Bike, but since Bike and Pitbull are anti-structure vehicles, they prioritize these targets and will keep attacking those first.

Nod Avatar, and GDI Juggernaut, are a third category of vehicles, 'walkers'. They do not take damage from the anti-infantry structures and they do the most trample damage. They also can trample other vehicles, due to their size, regular vehicles only trample infantry iirc.

So Avatars and Juggernauts can trample vehicles? I see that with Juggernauts its possible, but how about avatars? They target vehicles so they won't run into them. Seems with the attack bike, pitbull and avatar, it looks quite useless as a feature. Unless this was to happen, units will move forward regardless of the target they're attacking, may it be vehicles, infantry or structures. Could be an interesting world type called expert. I have never seen a Juggernaut run over a vehicle like a scrapbus or bowler. Is there a video link for me to see?

FingReaper · March 10, 2019 1:38AM

> @EE_Elephterion said:

> Ultimately it was a decision made for balance reasons, but I can't comment on the reasoning here as that was before my time. I think it was supposed to give the few vehicles in the early stage of Nod gameplay an edge to keep up with the GDI, which on the other hand have an additional RT sink.
>
> Whether this is good or bad is ofc open for discussion.

What a joke--Have you played GDI? There's NO balance between GDI & NOD look at the top scores in developed worlds. Especially in worlds that Alliances can only be ALL of one type. Suspect there's no effort from Admin to bother fixing this issue

Shinerplunderer · March 10, 2019 4:04AM

FingReaper wrote: »

What a joke--Have you played GDI? There's NO balance between GDI & NOD look at the top scores in developed worlds. Especially in worlds that Alliances can only be ALL of one type. Suspect there's no effort from Admin to bother fixing this issue

I agree with him. GDI is simply under-powered compared to Nod. They lack the cobra's sheild. I would suggest having all 3 of GDI's EMP grenades replaced with something else. GDI's cobra equivalent is the orca and not the paladin, it should have a sheild just like the cobra. I don't know about the pit-bull or the rifleman squad.

EE_Elephterion · March 11, 2019 10:32AM

FingReaper wrote: »

What a joke--Have you played GDI? There's NO balance between GDI & NOD look at the top scores in developed worlds. Especially in worlds that Alliances can only be ALL of one type. Suspect there's no effort from Admin to bother fixing this issue

Yes, we see that there is a disparate number of Nod players in the end game. But that's due to a multitude of factors that are a bit more tricky to balance then just the Cobra.

FingReaper · March 12, 2019 8:29AM

> @EE_Elephterion said:

> Yes, we see that there is a disparate number of Nod players in the end game. But that's due to a multitude of factors that are a bit more tricky to balance then just the Cobra.

Your reply while not disputing our premise; does not indicate any urgency / motivation to address & resolve this issue.

tragic...

EE_Elephterion · March 12, 2019 1:52PM

Well, rather then giving Orca a Shield, how about upping the range to 2.5?

FingReaper · March 13, 2019 10:09AM

anything would help the wretched GDI armies :#

Shinerplunderer · March 13, 2019 12:33PM

EE_Elephterion wrote: »

Well, rather then giving Orca a Shield, how about upping the range to 2.5?

I think the Orca would be too OP by then, unless it was supposed to move like the Venom, which then lacks originality. What we need is either a shield or a discount in repair time for ANY of GDI's anti-vehicle units.

EE_Elephterion wrote: »

Yes, we see that there is a disparate number of Nod players in the end game. But that's due to a multitude of factors that are a bit more tricky to balance then just the Cobra.

I think the issue behind it is that GDI doesn't have the good stuff of Nod. From shields to Defense increase and HP regeneration. I don't know if HP regeneration is applicable to GDI. Doesn't seem to suit them, I mean like a predator that slowly regains health as it kills vehicles by the tens? Seems to be too OP and somewhat lore conflicting.

M8u8r4r4a0796 · March 21, 2019 12:32PM

i thought that 19.1 came with the forgotten units being completed in the arsenal but the tank and infantry barriers are missing completely , also some values changed there as well i remember at one point the guardians had the highest trample damage of all units , anyway as the gdi units upgrades go the mammoth's is the lamest and if i remember correctly in the original c&c the mammoth had self healing, to half health for sure maybe more. should only be fitting for it to have it here as well . and just a thought a good upgrade for any of the units. would be a mirror type reflection device that when the unit that has it is attacked it reflects the incoming damage to the enemy unit that dealt the damage or maybe to the one to the right like the mirror confused the enemy to thinking the guy next to him is now where what he attacked is.

EE_Elephterion · March 22, 2019 12:32PM

Thanks for the heads up, it appears that these units where indeed… forgotten.

Anyway, will add that to the list for the future update.

M8u8r4r4a0796 · March 23, 2019 7:32AM

do you think that updated values could be added for the changes that a unit upgrade gives? I know well think offhand not many upgrades change any current values to trample speed etc. but as for the scorpion upgrade laser cutter it surely increases the trample damage. right? I'm assuming trample only applies to units trampling infantry units and mg's which are basically infantry even though listed in buildings.I'm asking this specifically because always during PVP players tell me I should use avatars because they walk over infantry but really I think scorpion with upgrade is better at it lol and well without any numbers no way to disprove either point. off hand though one other would be GDI commando the speed increase could be listed when its upgrade comes into effect after attacked

Shinerplunderer · March 24, 2019 6:31AM

M8u8r4r4a0796 wrote: »

.off hand though one other would be GDI commando the speed increase could be listed when its upgrade comes into effect after attacked

Speaking of trample damage, would an offensive GDI commando be able to escape being trampled by a scooper or scrap-bus that has its eyes on other targets.

KG5IZE · March 24, 2019 1:11PM

yea defenseive units dont have trample

M8u8r4r4a0796 · March 24, 2019 1:18PM

offensive units with trample will trample and shoot a different target if the target is it's you know, the type its made for like mammoth run over rocket guy same time be shooting the scrap bus next to it .

Shinerplunderer · March 24, 2019 1:44PM

KG5IZE wrote: »

yea defensive units don't have trample

Really!?! Defensive units can't trample offensive! I remember before that I baited a scooper to get a soldier to slip past it. On one of the simulations, I screwed, and the result was the scooper easily ran over the said infantry. I recall it was a nod commando.

M8u8r4r4a0796 wrote: »

offensive units with trample will trample and shoot a different target if the target is it's you know, the type its made for like mammoth run over rocket guy same time be shooting the scrap bus next to it .

If a vehicle runs over an infantry and stops to shoot at something else, does it end up trampling the unit under it or does it stand a chance of fighting back?

M8u8r4r4a0796 · March 24, 2019 1:56PM

it is Simultaneous but if the tank running over the guy dies before it finishes running over the dude then ya it could litteraly be tank running over a guy while tank shooting a bus and a cannon or something blows the tank up lol and at that point it is in the guys favor surviving becaues surely the guy shooting the tank the bus could be too and then the cannon

Guardian interaction issue with anti-infantry barrier

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