EA Forums - Banner

Mechanics of Spawning Camps and Outposts

2Next

Replies

  • I understand, and I appreciate the advice, but let's stick to the issue:
    Tunnel Exits of level 62 and 63 are only seen to be spawning a maximum level of 61 outposts.

    My next step is to clear old outposts and see if new ones that are spawned will be higher than level 61 ( they should be )
  • gamerdruid
    3992 posts Moderator
    I've discussed this with the developers and they have confirmed that, by design, the outposts are limited to be less than 62 therefore level 61 and below.

    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • I understand, and I appreciate the advice, but let's stick to the issue:
    Tunnel Exits of level 62 and 63 are only seen to be spawning a maximum level of 61 outposts.

    My next step is to clear old outposts and see if new ones that are spawned will be higher than level 61 ( they should be )

    Hello Commanders, thanks for pointing us to this detail!

    I can confirm now that what you have observed is correct, there was some data not adjusted for the increased level caps that led to Outposts not spawning with their usual level variance beyond level 60.
    We'd like to avoid more out of schedule hotfixes, so we will adjust this issue in 20.4.

    OPs are supposed to spawn with a level variance with -/+2. Previously this was capped at max level 60 to +1/-2 btw. This will also change to -/+2 at any max level in the future.

    Camps on the other hand have a -1/+2 variance. They where also capped at level 65 to -/+1; in the future they will have -1/+2 level variance even at the level cap. So there will always be a chance for camps OPs to spawn slightly above player level.
    Envision Entertainment Community Liaison
  • Very nice! And thank you for your response!
  • Soixie
    559 posts Member
    edited January 12
    Updated 21/01/12;


    Tunnels are inactive by default and can become active (triggered) by a qualified player base. A qualified base must meet both of the following conditions;

    A base must be within 4.5 (6.5*) range of the tunnel
    A base must have an offense that is at least -6 (-7*) levels or above of the tunnel level

    * Differences only applicable to PTE as of 20.3 patch.


    Once activated, a function() is called to determine if an outpost shall spawn
    f(x) = chance an outpost will spawn
    BQ = quantity of qualified bases (within range and within offensive range)
    T = Tunnel level
    O = Offense level
    R = Range (distance) from tunnel
    X = Tunnel level - Offense level


    1 base has a 25% chance an outpost will spawn;
    f(x) = 25% if BQ is greater than 0

    5 bases have a 100% chance an outpost will spawn;
    f(x) = 100% if BQ is greater than 4

    Offense level of each base has no known effect on spawn %

    f(x) is called once per hour and again when an outpost is cleared. The maximum number of visible outposts visible for a tunnel is 10. There was a theory that outposts go into a waiting queue (max 14), but testing does not support this. We've watched 8 players farm the same 12 tunnels 24/7 for unlimited outpost spawns.. The trick is to make sure BQ is greater than 4 for all nearby tunnels.

    A tunnel will spawn an outpost up to 6.5 spaces away from the tunnel that is activated.

    Tunnels will spawn outposts -2 to +2 of the tunnel level. If Offense is less than the tunnel, then the outpost level will be -1 or -2. Once the offense level reaches tunnel level, 0 & -1 and if above then +1 & +2.
    If Offense is greater than Tunnel then +1 & +2

    This level limit varies by world. Many worlds experience -2 to +5, others are still -2 to +2 and others still won't spawn any outposts past level 60. The differences are based on economy and patch level.

    The average level of outpost spawned or re-spawned by a follow-up is a function of the average level of player bases within the tunnel. What this means is that as the average player base level increases around a tunnel, the probability increases for higher level outposts.

    Of note: Many players believe that placing a non-qualified base around a tunnel will "block the tunnel from spawning outposts". This is 100% false and physically not possible. There is an argument that a non-qualified base shouldn't be near said tunnel as the base and it's camps will "be in the way", but a non-qualified base does not interfere with tunnels, period.
    Post edited by Soixie on
  • gamerdruid
    3992 posts Moderator
    @Soixie do you have a similar breakdown of the mechanics of Infect camps spawning?
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • Soixie
    559 posts Member
    @gamerdruid , I haven't spent any time analyzing infected
  • @EE_Elephterion,

    With the new patch update it seems there are a few changes to outpost generation that several users have experienced. When able could you provide a few specifics of the changes and address several changes documented by Soixie?

    1. Is there a new mechanism of activating a tunnel vs tunnels getting triggered? And is Soixie's range
    and offense levels correct?

    Activate tunnel: 4.5 spaces
    Trigger tunnel: 6.5 spaces

    Offense level to activate tunnel: -6 or higher of tunnel level
    Offense level to trigger tunnel: -7 or higher ot tunnel level

    2. Do offense levels have an impact on level of outposts spawned? Current guidance states that only average level of the player base level within range of a tunnel impacts level of outposts spawned. Please clarify or confirm the following statements from Soixie:
    a. If offense level of player base is less than level of tunnel, outpost level spawned is between -1 to -2 of tunnel level.
    b. If offense level of player base is equal to level of tunnel, outpost level spawned is between 0 to -1 of tunnel level.
    c. If offense level of player base is greater than level of tunnel, outpost level spawned is between +1 to +2 of tunnel level.

    3. Does size or type of world influence the factors that influence activation of tunnels and the level of outposts spawned from a tunnel? Additionally, does the patch version impact these factors as it seems some older worlds or unique worlds seem to have a different set of spawn range in the mechanics.

    4. It seems the biggest change from current guidance is the inclusion of player offense level influence on outposts spawned. There are two different spawns types:
    a. Spawns from tunnels (up to 10);
    b. Spawns as a result of a player follow-up from an outpost shot.

    Are either of these types of spawned outposts influenced by player offense level as a result of the newest patch?

  • Soixie
    559 posts Member
    My post above is the current code and has been validated from several sources. The documented variances that exist are due to variances in economy, age of server, and which "coding team" last touched the core engine.

    The two primary issues players have with tunnels is related to "how to activate" and "blocking". Simply click on any tunnel, it will instruct the user that -6 offense (-7 for PTE) is required to activate any tunnel. "blocking" is a myth and if 5 qualified bases exists, tunnel will produce unlimited outposts. Again, all variances related to tunnels is documented above.

    Of note, in most cases Outposts are a complete distraction and the highest ROI (Reso per CP) available is farming Camps.
  • chadthurston
    133 posts Member
    edited March 23
    delete
    Post edited by chadthurston on
  • Soixie
    559 posts Member
    edited March 22
    Soixie wrote: »
    Of note, in most cases Outposts are a complete distraction and the highest ROI (Reso per CP) available is farming Camps.


    1 shot level 12 and 13 outposts are easy to find as nod with vertigos or gdi with firehawks, just in case a noob sees this and shoots level 10 camps for a few days at the beginning of a server and wonders why everyone else already has base 2...
    You're not wrong, as most people don't have common sense. Problem is most people are lazy and couldn't calculate 1,000,000 / 36 vs 500,000 / 12 to determine which is higher if their life depended on it. Doesn't really apply to the majority participating in these forums.

    While the code exists through level 50 for all servers, "camps vs outposts" doesn't become relevant until level 30+. At 60+, outposts are mostly a complete waste of time, especially since the levels (no longer +5 for newer servers) were nerfed.
  • chadthurston
    133 posts Member
    edited March 23
    delete
    Post edited by chadthurston on
  • @Soixie,

    I cannot replicate your findings on PTE with regards to offense level impacting level of outposts spawned. Additionally, the top players I know can't confirm your findings.

    How I tested this was to activate a level 13 tunnel and level up 5 bases offenses to level 15. The base level was level 8. The outposts spawned were majority level 11 and 12.

    I then increased the base level past level 13 (level 18), and outposts level 14 and 15 spawned more regularly.

    This to me confirms the devs responses and current farming guidance for outposts.

    You will need to provide some screenshots and methodology on how you tested. Additionally, it would be helpful to know which worlds you tested on in case the patch version impacts.

    Additionally, in terms of resources per CP (of course distance matters) there is a distinct difference in resources: bases > outposts > camps. This has nothing to do with world type or economy type. If you can 1-shot a base, do so. It's better than 1-shot outpost which is better than a 1-shot camp assuming distance and level are all the same.

    Also, there are two main world types. Morale and non-morale. My understanding is that the spawn mechanics do not change. I cannot speak to the special worlds although it would make zero sense for the devs to touch these numbers on purpose.

    The main dynamic change coded into morale worlds is the morale levels. Morale kicks in sooner on smaller worlds, and later on bigger worlds.

    I am waiting on @EE_Elephterion or another developer to discuss what is new for farming due to the newest patch.
  • Soixie
    559 posts Member
    The current code on PTE isn't even current. Was my understanding Envision scrapped all code testing and reverted back to a level 60 / 65 cap. There is no "experimental" code currently live on PTE. We'll know more as we reach level 60 / 65.

    The 'variances' everyone is seeing were explained above and I don't expect the devs to comment. Historically, they do not provide raw source code details beyond what has been provided already. Even if a response comes, not much more can be provided as the current details are in the process of being changed. Once the final version of level 80 is patched to all servers, I expect all tunnels to produce -2/+1 (vs offense). As @chadthurston eluded to, the code for tunnels should have never been altered from -1/+5 and camps should have remained forever at -1/+3 (with no level caps) The simplicity of the code would have provided the best gaming experience for both the devs and players.
  • gamerdruid
    3992 posts Moderator
    The current code on the PTE is the same as on all standard level 65 worlds. My understanding is that level 80 won't be coming to all servers but will be set on world creation in the future, but I could be wrong!
    I am not an employee of EA/Envision. The views expressed are my own!
  • "that level 80 won't be coming to all servers"

    buuaaaa, buuaaaa, (crying)
    Not a part of EA / Envision teams - My comments are only mine.
  • Soixie
    559 posts Member
    @gamerdruid , I hope your wrong but it wouldn't surprise me with the turnovers and team failures currently at Envision. 80 would infuse much needed life into the game, and income.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!