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Madden NFL 20 - Gridiron Notes: March Title update

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Suggested Madden 20 fixes / Gameplay Fixes for future installments

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tosstamer1
306 posts Member
edited September 2019
I know gameplay can't be changed to drastically this year, so some of these suggestions are for future installments of the game:


-Bring back user jumpballs.
Back on Madden 15 and down, throwing a streak to a WR for a jumpball depended on WR and CB height differential, jumping, spec catch, user positioning, user jump timing, and if the player usering the corner can get in good position by strafing and locating the ball. Madden 16 - present, jumpballs have been animation based and not dependent on user positioning, timing, height, nor spec catch.
ie: In Madden 20, I've experimented a lot in practice throwing a streak jumpball to Marvin Jones (95 spec) and Kenny Golliday (90 spec) by crossing the DBs face with the aggressive catch and possession catch button. Result was usually the DB catching an interception over the top of them or diving backwards. When I kept my same position and went up with the aggressive catch and possession catch button, the DB caught an interception because I did not attempt to cross the DBs face. I've tried throwing outside, inside, lobs, straight throws, high throw, low throw. Most ending results were an interception or dropped from being hit. Whats the point of 95 spec if a guy can't come down with a jumpball? I know Julio Jones, Hopkins, Green, Evans, and maybe a few others that have double me are the only guys that can really get a jumpball off. When 2 years ago on Thanksgiving, Marvin Jones had like 150 yards and 2 TDs on Rhodes off jumpballs. Those guys shouldn't be the only guys that can get a jumpball off and it should be more user skill based for the result.
Endzone fade jumpballs are non existent too. Those should be in the game.



All defensive players on the LOS, no press, but a WR can't beat them deep
This one speaks for itself. You should be punished if your entire defense is on the LOS and the offense throws it deep.



Ball Carrier Physics and tackling
Too many times, a ball carrier (WR or RB) will break one tackle near other defenders and will be able to run normally, and the defenders all drop like bowling pins. No animation or anything. Just the normal running animation running through defenders like paper mache. Tackling in general is also awful.



RBs Still always fall forward
I've used the Colts online, and Nyheim Hines falls farward through DTs all game. He's what 5'9, 180 pounds always fall forward through 300 pound DTs.



People Usering LBs still keep up with WRs
In my connected franchise, the chiefs guy usered darren lee (LB) all game. He has 87 speed I believe and low cov stats and does not have shutdown. I have John Ross on my team (97 speed) on a slant route. Darren Lee runs stride for stride with him across the field and picked me with -10 speed and he's a LB. This happens often but was the talk of the town that this was fixed.



Players with SuperStar and X Factor makes competitive game mode feel like simulation
I understand the great players in the NFL we want to feel superior in the game. I feel like its a little too OP and feels like any normal player automatically lose the play vs a SS or X factor player no matter the position or what.
I ran a 10 yard out route with my outside WR vs a 10 yard backed up cov 3 vs Sherman. I threw the out early with perfect timing, Sherman is about 5 yards away during the throw, the game makes my WR go into a jumping animation so Sherman can warp to my WR and knock the pass down.



Only team playbooks can be schemed in franchise
I dont understand why all the playbooks are not included to be able to scheme in franchise. Its been like this for years and continues to be looked over.



Running the ball super OP
Speaks for itself. The connected franchise I play in every year (BBL) has about 10-12 guys that play MUT and had tournament invites in their inbox a few weeks ago. I really only play for fun, but they are extremely serious and are like really good. Everyone avg 200-300 yards rushing per game. Stretch and all other outside runs are so OP that even if you get in 4-4 and move the OLBs outside, fast rbs can still dip in and out and cruse through it. We are in week 11 and 10 rbs already have 2000 yards. Dudes are doing it behind 50-60 ovr linemen. The consensus in our league is that run block doesn’t even matter because they run block well no matter what.


CPU ball carrier moves not being used
After patch 1.10, the cpu hardly ever uses ball carrier moves. It’s causes the xfactor and superstar players to not use their abilities such as arm bar, juke box, spin cycle, etc. which makes them just like normal players. They also don’t hurdle. It’s an immersion killer. Need to get the devs aware of the situation to be fixed ASAP. (From ItsYaBoyHustle)



Only way to kill Metas IMO
Metas have been plaguing madden since youtube and I understand its hard to get rid of because some concepts will just plain work better than others sometimes.
My suggestion is to give an attribute boost to the team of the player that is mixing up their plays well. For instance, if a player is mixing it up on offense, or defense, or both, give the corresponding side of the balls players like a 3-5 point attribute boost on everything except physical attributes like speed, agi, acc, jumping.
On the other side, if a player is spamming a play, everytime they run that play, reduce all of their players attributes by 3-5. Or even increase the reduction of their players attributes the more they spam the certain play into the ground.
Also, make the boost or reduction for like one drive then on their next drive take them back to normal then build it up or reduce it again as you play more.
In real life, the more a team runs a play, the other team catches on. The more a team switches it up and keeps playcalling balance, the more you keep the other team on their toes. Reasons why NFL play sheets and playbooks have more pages than most novels.

I'll go on my Phone and Xbox to see if I can upload a few videos depicting these issues that I am having then edit if possible.


PS: it would also be an awesome addition if you could cycle through defensive players mid play by using the right stick like FIFA. I know it’s the hit stick but make it so hit stick can only be triggered after the QB throws the ball. It would make it so you don’t feel like you can only watch while an AI controlled cb gets killed and it’s nothing you can do.

Thank you
Xbox GT: UNT ATHLETE1
Post edited by tosstamer1 on

Replies

  • I like part of you posts, but we disagree on a few key items...

    Running the Ball OP

    It might seem so, but many of us played Madden 19 and were able to fight through the horrible "Real Player Motion" phenomenon where every minute change in direction resulted in a hard foot plant, a stop, and accelleration from zero. Now that Madden 20 has made running more responsive, it's making running and weaving through holes seem like a breeze, whether it's on stretches or dives.

    Bring back user jumpballs

    Early in the season, I was losing every 50/50 ball whether I was on offense or defense. If it was one on one, my guy wasn't getting it. So the other day, I started having some success. It seems, with regard to the aggressive catch specifically, that they player that activates the jump first usually has the advantage... I'm still losing on offense, but I've had several user picks in the last week. I'm hoping to transition that to my offense this week.

    People Usering LBs still keep up with WRs

    I was discussing this the other day, but it applies here. A CPU controlled WR is not running full speed while they run their routes, where a LB controlled by a user is most likely holding R2/Right Trigger to sprint at his top speed. That's why he can keep up all the way across the field on a slant. If you lead the pass out of the LB's reach you can take control of the WR and sprint away from the LB to make the catch.

    RBs falling forward

    I use the Panthers online and I am able to fall forward sometimes. But I'm also getting stonewalled and planted on my ❤️❤️❤️❤️ sometimes too. I use Christian McCaffery with the Panthers... He's pretty good. But he doesn't fall forward on a squared up defender.

    Last but not least...

    One way to kill METAS

    I'm not a fan of artificial methods like ratings boosts or penalties to prevent people from spamming plays. I'd rather scheme them using personnel, position, and tempo as a calculated strategy. Since I'm aware that not every player has the ability to quickly make the adjustments necessary to combat the most commonly used spammed plays, I am also committed to sticking to my own strategic identity and teaching what I've learned to others because an educated pool of players with original strategies is the best way to kill METAS.

    Take the 3-4 Odd Pinch Buck 0 META, or as I call it the "EVERYBODY DEFENSE," it is weakest against offensive formations with a TE on each end of the LOS. I use Singleback Ace against the Pinch Buck 0 and the Cover 4 Show 2 and shred the METAS on the regular - all within my normal everyday (or every year) offense. The 2TE (personnel) scheme works because it puts blockers inches away from the defender they are blocking (position), which eliminates the threat from the blitz (tempo).

    I believe METAS exist because they work on the weakest Madden players. So it's my mission to help strengthen them so they can scheme on their own (without YouTube).

    Later
  • Running the ball is easier than madden 25. People can have all 60 ovr OL and still runblock well.

    In your jumpball comments, I didn’t see anything talking about positioning, user skills, nor spec catch rating.

    Why would WRs not being running full speed on routes? If that’s the case how do corners ever get beat? Not to mention they said they were nurfing LBs in cov so what about that?

    Meta was probably the wrong term. But people spamming money plays on offense is more of the thing I was referring to.
    Before you say you should adjust and stuff yes of course. But you can only control one person on defense. I can put my AI player in a purple and he’ll still get killed by a corner route.
  • Here's my take on some of the things you 2 have said user linebackers are killing the game for me, simply because they never get tired ..rating at some point has to matter other wise don't have them ..they can run all over the field cover three of four routes at the same time.. agility remember that rating the ability to change direction (yes the R2/right trigger run faster) what button is being held to change direction all MLB's must have 102 rating on agility ...defense is horrific man to man doesn't exist, press don't bother waste of time ..the sad part is (can't remember witch one ) but one Madden the press worked man cover was great if a top CB was good at man coverage he was good in the game ..so I know they can fix it.. I'm tired of my passes turning into jump balls so the defender comes over and knocks the ball out.. OBJ he might as well be a arena league player because he doesn't catch anything for me ...Myles Garrett vs. Eric Fisher 2 sacks 12 games P. Maholmes drop back to pass on avg. 38 times ..now everybody game exp. is different this is mine I might go back to playing Madden 18 because of some of the game play I encounter ...B. Mayfield has to be the worst QB I ever played with it's either to 2 high , 2 long, 2 short ..❤️❤️❤️❤️
  • I'm going to disagree on jump balls only because there are way too many jump balls in the game now. What this game needs is a way for me to throw the ball down the sideline into the outstretched arms of my defender but each time, it becomes a jump ball situation.
  • I'm asking for jumpballs and jumpball defense to be more reliant on user jump timing, user positioning, WR vs CB height and jumping, and spec catch. Right now, positioning, user skill, height, jump, spec catch don't even matter. I can never a jumpball with marvin jones (6'2, 95 spec, 90 something jumping), but caught a jumpball yesterday with John Ross (5'10, trash spec, trash jump).
  • Have 3-4 and 4-3 archetypes for defensive players, and have CPU teams pay attention to them. A 3-4 team wouldn't sign a 250 pound DE unless he moves to OLB, and most 4-3 teams wouldn't play someone like Akiem Hicks at DE. It would also help make PVR ratings more accurate
  • After patch 1.10, the cpu hardly ever uses ball carrier moves. It’s causes the xfactor and superstar players to not use their abilities such as arm bar, juke box, spin cycle, etc. which makes them jus like normal players. They also don’t hurdle. It’s an immersion killer. Need to get the devs aware of the situation to be fixed ASAP.
  • Thank you guys for bringing that to my attention because I rarely play vs the CPU and would never know. I will add your comment in my post.
  • tosstamer1 wrote: »
    Running the ball is easier than madden 25. People can have all 60 ovr OL and still runblock well.

    I didn't play much Madden 25... But the OVR rating for Madden players is really just smoke and mirrors. The 60 OVR OL might be a great run blocker, but have horrible AWR or suck at pass blocking. Also, the 60 rating might be how he's rated at RG, but he might be a 75 at LT. It's always best to look at the individual ratings - NEVER THE OVR.
    tosstamer1 wrote: »
    In your jumpball comments, I didn’t see anything talking about positioning, user skills, nor spec catch rating.

    True... I didn't address those for a few reasons.
    Regarding positioning, Cam Newton never throws the deep ball where I want it. My user attempts to make catches are usually panicked reactions to throws that are directly to defenders. As a result, they seem to always be in better position.
    My personal user skills are not worth mentioning... The last 3 years of Madden have made me lazy because the 'hold-down' button mechanic has made me lazy. I'm slowly getting back to timing my button presses and have seen a marked improvement lately.
    My receivers have lackluster SPC and CTT ratings... I have come to expect them to drop balls unless they are WIDE OPEN.
    tosstamer1 wrote: »
    Why would WRs not being running full speed on routes? If that’s the case how do corners ever get beat? Not to mention they said they were nurfing LBs in cov so what about that?

    Skilled WR don't run routes at full speed, but they use speed as a tool to setup defenders. Coming off the line at full sprint indicates to DB's that the route is a streak or a fade because a receiver can't cut without reducing speed and planting a foot to change direction. A skilled WR might run at a speed that makes the defender anticipate a cut, then the WR speeds up to get by him OR break off the line at full speed to get the defender to rotate his hips, then the WR throttle's down and turns while the DB is running away. Neither of these is modeled well in Madden...
    I don't think they should have changed the way LBs played pass coverage. The change in the pass trajectory was enough. But they limited the movements a LB can make when the ball is coming toward him in response to feedback from Average Joe Maddenplayer...
    tosstamer1 wrote: »
    Meta was probably the wrong term. But people spamming money plays on offense is more of the thing I was referring to.

    It has always been my belief that there is no such thing as a money play... Nothing works all the time; however, the average Madden player doesn't play for the intricacies of the strategy. They play for fun. I personally love the X's and O's and play Madden from a coaching perspective. Most players play with a spectator perspective...
    I wrote an article about it years ago called "Simulate Responsibility." Membership to the site has always been FREE - and I won't spam you with emails. LOL
    tosstamer1 wrote: »
    Before you say you should adjust and stuff yes of course. But you can only control one person on defense. I can put my AI player in a purple and he’ll still get killed by a corner route.

    I see you point about defense, but I disagree... We only control one player directly! All 10 other players are controlled indrectly via the plays we call and the adjustments we make.
    Regarding that Curl/Flat (Purple) zone, we agree... It's was virtually useless before the 1.12 Title Update... I haven't played enough games to know if it's working better. I haven't trusted that zone for so long, it's hard to put on on the field.

    Good talk! Keep it going.

    Later
  • tosstamer1
    306 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    Overall ratings match attributes way better this year. I challenge you to find a 50s-60s ovr offensive lineman with good run or pass blocking (assuming 80+ is considered good). I doubt you can find one that has even high 70s blocking if they are 50s-60s ovr. That was one of the main changes of the game this year is ratings fitting attributes.


    Idk what you're saying on the jumpball comments, but all and all, they still are predetermined regardless of positioning, spec catching rating, jumping, height, user skill ect.


    I played cb in college and no one jogs routes. You would be kicked off the field. Every route is supposed to look like a streak to make the cb turn his hips and run to gain separation on underneath routes. How can you do that if you aren't running full speed? Only time a WR may not run full speed on a route is a fake block and release, or if they are finding a space in the zone. Find a space in the zone isn't on madden so WRs should be running full speed. Ask someone that's played football.


    I understand and agree there not really being money plays especially this year, but I feel like power running off tackle or outside is super OP due to run blocking attributes not mattering.




    Post edited by tosstamer1 on
  • tosstamer1 wrote: »
    I played cb in college and no one jogs routes. You would be kicked off the field. Every route is supposed to look like a streak to make the cb turn his hips and run to gain separation on underneath routes. How can you do that if you aren't running full speed? Only time a WR may not run full speed on a route is a fake block and release, or if they are finding a space in the zone. Find a space in the zone isn't on madden so WRs should be running full speed. Ask someone that's played football.

    There's a big difference between jogging and running full speed... Just like there's difference when a receiver is running the 40 for time and running 40 yards and looking to catch the ball. You can't adjust to a poorly thrown ball when trying to run the 40 for time... You have to throttle it back a little. Running 93% of max, for instance, is not the same as jogging though. it also give you another gear in case you have to adjust to an overthrown pass.

    Later
  • What about running with a CB trailing on a slant. Should he be running full speed?
  • I would like to see a rating box next to the tight end that rates your chances of completing a user route in heavy pressure situations.
  • The ratings mean nothing in this game guys will low passing accuracy complete high percentage of passes kickers make every field goal I don't see a balance off/online play I can't tell a run stop team from a good pass rush cause everybody does the same animations
  • The-Sporty-Hero
    475 posts Member
    edited September 2019
    A Defensive hitter upticks boutade system.
    Post edited by The-Sporty-Hero on
  • i want AI ball carrier moves back!
  • tosstamer1 wrote: »
    What about running with a CB trailing on a slant. Should he be running full speed?

    To make sure we're talking about the same thing, let's agree that 100% (running 40 for time speed) is a full sprint or full speed.

    The setup, or stem of the slant, is run at one speed. The move to cross the DB's face and get inside is made at a faster speed, and running away from the DB across the field is at a slightly slower speed. Once the catch is made, it's time to turn on the jets (assuming the WR doesn't get lit up immediately by a linebacker). REASON BEING: Quarterbacks don't always throw accurately and a receiver running a slant CANNOT adjust to a ball thrown behind or too far in front if he's keeps running full speed after the cut. Also, he also is going to have a hard time catching it if he's running full speed, because he will need to be pumping his arms vigorously to maintain his 100% top speed and that doesn't allow proper hand placement.

    Next time you watch the combine... watch how the runner's arms are moving. There's a HUGE difference between how a receiver pumps his arms when he's running a route versus when he's running the 40. Don't get me wrong, he's still fast (or he doesn't play) but their arms rarely if ever go behind them. receiver's end the rearward portion of their arm pumping at their hips. Because hands must be positioned to catch the ball and you can't run at 100% without pumping your arms so they go behind you.

    So NO... You can't expect a receiver to catch the ball on a slant running 100% because his hands will NEVER be together and in position to make the catch.

    You said you played CB... As a DB, you are more likely to run closer to 100% because you are not expected to catch the ball every time it's thrown at your man and it only takes one hand to knock a ball away. I'd assume that your coach, at some point, told you to watch how a receiver runs to determine what route they are running. When their arm pump changes, so does their speed and or direction.

    All that said, the difference between full speed and "catch ready" speed is probably less than 0.2 of a second over 40 yards for an average receiver. Even less with a elite receiver.

    Later
  • So idk of Madden uses all those factors in their game in players running speed... But using that logic, going back to my original post when I said I had a 97 speed John Ross on a slant and a 87 speed Darren Lee (LB) kept up with him across the field and picked it. You're saying that 87 speed should be able to keep up with 97 speed because the WR is only running 93% full speed. Therefore John Ross could be running at 91 speed. The LB is still 4 speed points lower and is a LB whom are supposed to be nurfed in pass cov if they have bad cov stats which he does. Using your logic, that still shouldn't happen.
  • tosstamer1 wrote: »
    So idk of Madden uses all those factors in their game in players running speed... But using that logic, going back to my original post when I said I had a 97 speed John Ross on a slant and a 87 speed Darren Lee (LB) kept up with him across the field and picked it. You're saying that 87 speed should be able to keep up with 97 speed because the WR is only running 93% full speed. Therefore John Ross could be running at 91 speed. The LB is still 4 speed points lower and is a LB whom are supposed to be nurfed in pass cov if they have bad cov stats which he does. Using your logic, that still shouldn't happen.

    You make a good point, but we have little to no information about how fast 97 actually is... And even less about how fast it is in relation to an 87. So the question we should be asking is - How much faster is a single SPD point... If we know how much faster one point of speed is, we'll know how much faster 4 points is, and specifically how much faster two players with the same speed run when one is topping out while another is topping out without sprinting.

    I'm going to venture to say that the difference between them is miniscule, but there are ways to find out. I'll conduct some experiments - after we agree on the parameters. Here's what I propose:

    1) CONTROL: Create 2 identical offensive players with 99 SPD, 99 AGI, & 99 ACC. Create a play with both players on the same side of the field at the same depth (off the line in Bunch) and line up with the ball backed up on the 10 yard line in Practice Mode with no defense. Send both on streaks and time their speed to the 50 yard line (measured in frames). They should cross the 50 at the same time.

    2) SPRINT TEST: Similar to Experiment 1 except when we send both players on streak routes we will. Take control of one player and SPRINT with him to race the other player in a 40 yard dash... Count the frames (at 60 frames per second) until those players cross midfield. The sprinting WR should cross the 50 first if they aren't running routes at full speed.

    3) 1 SPD PT DIFFERENCE: Do the same thing with a 98 SPD, 99 AGI, 99 ACC receiver. Count the frames and compare the number of frames of difference in a 40 yard dash between "WR 99" and "WR 98."

    4) POSITION DIFFERENCE: Create an identical player to our "WR 99" with the exception of his position (either TE or HB). Line him up in the same position (backfield in the bunch) and do the same action.

    5) 10 SPD DIFFERENCE: Create yet another player, with a 89 SPD. Using the same method as the control, measure the difference in separation between the "WR 89" and "WR 99."

    I think these tests will check virtually everything we are looking to test, and provide some answers... If we are in agreement, I'll record the footage, edit and do the voice over, and post it hear and to my YouTube channel... I'll credit you and reference this thread as the reason the experiment was performed.

    What do you think?

    Later

    P.S. It may take me a few weeks. I'm moving my studio from San Diego to Los Angeles in a few weeks!
  • Madden 20 is sickening. Over a decade, lazy Madden has done 0.0.
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