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EASHL skating is terrible

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  • Things become harder than in real life, in this case, because of poor implementation. It does nothing to add balance to the game.

    The VC aspect is turning something that is not skill into one.
    I always considered heavy reliance on vc a scrubby auto aim feature in the old games. I rarely used it and had little or no issues squaring up or aiming. The game could be played without it before it was changed, and isn't that hard to use now. Then again, holding LT all game took skills yo.
  • Things become harder than in real life, in this case, because of poor implementation. It does nothing to add balance to the game.

    The VC aspect is turning something that is not skill into one.
    I always considered heavy reliance on vc a scrubby auto aim feature in the old games. I rarely used it and had little or no issues squaring up or aiming. The game could be played without it before it was changed, and isn't that hard to use now. Then again, holding LT all game took skills yo.

    VC helped control your character and focus less on the skating aspect of the game (thats done without thinking IRL) and more on the hockey aspect of the game.

    If you like a skating simulator so much, why bother with hockey. Im sure there must be some olympic game you could play to do ballet on ice. You dont even need to bother with the hockey side of things interfering with the skating.

    And honestly, you think way too much of your abilities. Everyone can handle the game with or without VC. You arent special. Nobody wants to do it is the difference. It takes 0 skill either way, its just misplaced focus.
  • kezz123 wrote: »
    Things become harder than in real life, in this case, because of poor implementation. It does nothing to add balance to the game.

    The VC aspect is turning something that is not skill into one.
    I always considered heavy reliance on vc a scrubby auto aim feature in the old games. I rarely used it and had little or no issues squaring up or aiming. The game could be played without it before it was changed, and isn't that hard to use now. Then again, holding LT all game took skills yo.

    VC helped control your character and focus less on the skating aspect of the game (thats done without thinking IRL) and more on the hockey aspect of the game.

    If you like a skating simulator so much, why bother with hockey. Im sure there must be some olympic game you could play to do ballet on ice. You dont even need to bother with the hockey side of things interfering with the skating.

    And honestly, you think way too much of your abilities. Everyone can handle the game with or without VC. You arent special. Nobody wants to do it is the difference. It takes 0 skill either way, its just misplaced focus.
    Thanks! My thoughts exactly.
  • OvenMitts91
    66 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Perhaps @NHLDev can opine? There has to be some practical reason as why the dev team hasn't made EASHL faster and subsequently, more fun.

    No one is asking for the arcade 3s sliders to be ported to EASHL, but rather some semblance of explosiveness and ability to accelerate from the builds would be nice. The 18 wheelers in GTA get up to top speed faster than the NHL 16-18 playmaker build. I imagine making the players feel quicker and more floaty would also help alleviate a lot of complaints people have related to "fat man lag, inability to turn/change direction, among others".

    We've been asking for it for years now.
  • Hockey IS like bumper cars in a sense. Good teams take away time and space...I like that you have to battle more for it now.
    It takes a little more skill now to "earn" that time and space and then do something good with it when you have it
  • Hockey IS like bumper cars in a sense. Good teams take away time and space...I like that you have to battle more for it now.
    It takes a little more skill now to "earn" that time and space and then do something good with it when you have it

    Are you kidding?

    Forwards just blow by defenders in perfect positions (heck, I even play back further and I still get beat)

  • Hockey IS like bumper cars in a sense. Good teams take away time and space...I like that you have to battle more for it now.
    It takes a little more skill now to "earn" that time and space and then do something good with it when you have it

    Are you kidding?

    Forwards just blow by defenders in perfect positions (heck, I even play back further and I still get beat)


    Well...try playing back even further!!! Further away from the play! Lol
  • kezz123 wrote: »
    Things become harder than in real life, in this case, because of poor implementation. It does nothing to add balance to the game.

    The VC aspect is turning something that is not skill into one.
    I always considered heavy reliance on vc a scrubby auto aim feature in the old games. I rarely used it and had little or no issues squaring up or aiming. The game could be played without it before it was changed, and isn't that hard to use now. Then again, holding LT all game took skills yo.

    VC helped control your character and focus less on the skating aspect of the game (thats done without thinking IRL) and more on the hockey aspect of the game.

    If you like a skating simulator so much, why bother with hockey. Im sure there must be some olympic game you could play to do ballet on ice. You dont even need to bother with the hockey side of things interfering with the skating.

    And honestly, you think way too much of your abilities. Everyone can handle the game with or without VC. You arent special. Nobody wants to do it is the difference. It takes 0 skill either way, its just misplaced focus.

    This is where I say you've failed to learn the system. When tps first happened lots of people said what you are saying now. It's now been out for 6 years. I learned how to control it in the first year it was out, now going back and playing the game 6 years later, I can still control it with no problem. I'm not constantly thinking about it, sure when I was first learning it I had to think about how to do what I want to do. Now that I know how it all works and stuff, I just do what I want to do without consciously thinking about it.

    It's funny so many of you talk about the lowering of the skill ceiling of this game, and then you turn around and say, "I need a single button press to face the play." That will lower the skill ceiling even more. Be open to learning to do well with tps. Some will say, "it's way better in 13 than now." Well I've talked to a few who said it's really not much different. Maybe you need to take the time to learn about how it all works and practice it before just basely claiming it's broken with very little input.
  • OvenMitts91
    66 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    You can't opine if you haven't played 15-17. They are nothing like the 360 versions of the game. Every elite 6s player who has mastered every nuance of this game would agree.

    End of story.
  • I have nhl 13 and 14 and a 360...

    Then you're irrelevant to this conversation.

  • @OvenMitts91 @mhandymanb To me from watching the game looks almost identical. Also way back in 13 there were the same people saying tps is garbage this and that exactly like you guys are. Problem is there's no evidence.

    Either buy me a copy of the game and a console to play it on or take the time to compile facts (not opinions) on the broken aspects of the game. If you have one person saying it's fine and another twenty saying it's broken that doesn't mean it's broken. It could also mean those twenty people are not using it properly.

    Take my job for example. If someone who has no idea how to use my machine walks up to it, turns it on and presses the cycle start button. It's not going to do a thing. To them it will appear broken. Is it? No, they just didn't go through the proper startup procedure.

    In my experience of playing games from AAA devs to indie devs to games made by one single person from full releases to early access, alphas, betas and everything in between for over 15 years, there's one big thing I've learned. There is a huge difference between a broken mechanic and the user not understanding how to use a given mechanic and thinking it is broken.

    Once you've gotten to the point where you think, "This is broken.", you're done for. You are now unable to even acknowledge that maybe you are the one doing something wrong. I used to think like that. Then something happened, maybe I got older, maybe I changed my perspective, idk. Now I look at it in stages. First it's, maybe I am doing something wrong and what can I do to make it work the way I want. Second, maybe it does not work the way I am expecting but once I learn how to use it, it will still get me to the same goal. There might be some other thoughts in there too but for simplicity's sake that's it. Only after all of that do I think well maybe it is just broken.

    So many people (me included) hate EA and because of that bias you jump to, "The game must be broken.", instead of trying to be more open minded about it and take the time to learn.
  • To me from watching the game looks almost identical. Also way back in 13 there were the same people saying tps is garbage this and that exactly like you guys are. Problem is there's no evidence.

    So many people (me included) hate EA and because of that bias you jump to, "The game must be broken.", instead of trying to be more open minded about it and take the time to learn.

    Give me a break. The new-gen game feels nothing like NHL 13 or NHL 14. And the idea that it even looks almost identical is laughable.

    In all seriousness, if you haven't played the new-gen game, you're in no position to comment. None. You're filling these boards with post after meaningless post, based on literally no actual information at all. Give it a rest.
  • Workin_OT
    469 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Militia mate, people know how to 'use' TPS, the problem is it's still junk. There's a reason it has been one of the most complained about features year after year, and it's not because people still haven't figured it out after 6 years.

    Moving your player around on the ice should not be part of the skill gap of the game. Skating is second nature to hockey players, you don't think about how to pivot, how to face the puck, how to strafe and t-push, you just do it. The game should reflect that. Things like saucer passes, drop passes, deking, chopping puck, cycling, the manual gameplay mechanics combined with hockey knowledge and playmaking should be where the skill gap lies. This isn't a platformer. Moving your player around shouldn't be part of the skill gap, it should be second nature like it is in real life.

    Imagine in GTA if driving a car around always controlled and felt like it does when your rear tires are popped. Can you do it without crashing all the time? Ya, but it takes more concentration and effort than driving a car around should.

    That is what TPS is like to NHL. Can you move around and pivot and stop and face the play when you want to? Ya, but it's clunky and takes more effort, like driving a car with popped tires, than it should.

    This doesn't even touch on the fact that there are skating maneuvers that 10 year old kids can do, again second nature without thinking about it, that are still not possible with TPS 6 years running.

    Have a read through here is you want to catch up: https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/86471/ea-dev-tps-needs-to-be-better-or-else-this-game-will-never-reach-potential/p1
  • Z0mbieBabyJesus
    1372 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    Militia mate, people know how to 'use' TPS, the problem is it's still junk. There's a reason it has been one of the most complained about features year after year, and it's not because people still haven't figured it out after 6 years.

    Moving your player around on the ice should not be part of the skill gap of the game. Skating is second nature to hockey players, you don't think about how to pivot, how to face the puck, how to strafe and t-push, you just do it. The game should reflect that. Things like saucer passes, drop passes, deking, chopping puck, cycling, the manual gameplay mechanics combined with hockey knowledge and playmaking should be where the skill gap lies. This isn't a platformer. Moving your player around shouldn't be part of the skill gap, it should be second nature like it is in real life.

    Imagine in GTA if driving a car around always controlled and felt like it does when your rear tires are popped. Can you do it without crashing all the time? Ya, but it takes more concentration and effort than driving a car around should.

    That is what TPS is like to NHL. Can you move around and pivot and stop and face the play when you want to? Ya, but it's clunky and takes more effort, like driving a car with popped tires, than it should.

    This doesn't even touch on the fact that there are skating maneuvers that 10 year old kids can do, again second nature without thinking about it, that are still not possible with TPS 6 years running.

    Have a read through here is you want to catch up: https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/86471/ea-dev-tps-needs-to-be-better-or-else-this-game-will-never-reach-potential/p1

    Only in relation to the bolded.

    In gta5, the driving does feel like that until your driving skill in game(attribute, not not controller skill) raises. And as you said it can be done, albeit with greater difficulty. But difficulty is subjective.

    Tps isn't ideal and can definitely feel clunky in games with latency, but it's also not broken and can be mastered.

    So many so-called "top" players complain about skill being taken out of the game, and simultaneously complain about things being "too hard".

    Well, which is it?
  • OvenMitts91
    66 posts Member
    edited September 2017
    Seriously?

    Top players have mastered the garbage skating engine, that doesn't make it any less garbage. Top 6s players who could dominate weaving through the neutral zone on 360 still can on Xbox One.

    If the players in EASHL currently feel like tanks- top players have mastered controlling their tank, which doesn't imply that the skating is actually a good representation of what skating feels like/the level of control one has of their edges IRL.

    If EA decided one year that madden was going to be played in a swimming pool instead of on a football field, and the top players learned how to master the swimming mechanics, would you deem that to be a successful/adequate football simulator? Clearly that's an extreme example but apparently required to get the point across, lol.

    Again, you're in no position to comment whatsoever if you haven't played NHL on the newer consoles. In NHL 17 there were instances where you'd win a draw and your center would literally auto skate back toward the dmen before you regained control of your player. You'd never be able to realize that without actually having the controller in your hands. Cheers.
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    Militia mate, people know how to 'use' TPS, the problem is it's still junk. There's a reason it has been one of the most complained about features year after year, and it's not because people still haven't figured it out after 6 years.

    Moving your player around on the ice should not be part of the skill gap of the game. Skating is second nature to hockey players, you don't think about how to pivot, how to face the puck, how to strafe and t-push, you just do it. The game should reflect that. Things like saucer passes, drop passes, deking, chopping puck, cycling, the manual gameplay mechanics combined with hockey knowledge and playmaking should be where the skill gap lies. This isn't a platformer. Moving your player around shouldn't be part of the skill gap, it should be second nature like it is in real life.

    Imagine in GTA if driving a car around always controlled and felt like it does when your rear tires are popped. Can you do it without crashing all the time? Ya, but it takes more concentration and effort than driving a car around should.

    That is what TPS is like to NHL. Can you move around and pivot and stop and face the play when you want to? Ya, but it's clunky and takes more effort, like driving a car with popped tires, than it should.

    This doesn't even touch on the fact that there are skating maneuvers that 10 year old kids can do, again second nature without thinking about it, that are still not possible with TPS 6 years running.

    Have a read through here is you want to catch up: https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/86471/ea-dev-tps-needs-to-be-better-or-else-this-game-will-never-reach-potential/p1

    Only in relation to the bolded.

    In gta5, the driving does feel like that until your driving skill in game(attribute, not not controller skill) raises. And as you said it can be done, albeit with greater difficulty. But difficulty is subjective.

    Tps isn't ideal and can definitely feel clunky in games with latency, but it's also not broken and can be mastered.

    So many so-called "top" players complain about skill being taken out of the game, and simultaneously complain about things being "too hard".

    Well, which is it?

    EA wanted to make these games easy to play and hard to master. While I agree skating like we're talking about is thoughtless in real life, it can be in this game too with some practice. The problem is you can't make it that easy because it's not like running in a basketball game. Skating is integral to your positioning and ability to do anything in a hockey game. It should be easy to play with, which imo it has been, and hard to master which again in the past it was exactly like that.

    The way I see it is be more open and willing to learn.
  • @NHLDev won't touch this one with a 10 ft pole for another year eh? guess 'the suits' want the game speed at 0?
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    Militia mate, people know how to 'use' TPS, the problem is it's still junk. There's a reason it has been one of the most complained about features year after year, and it's not because people still haven't figured it out after 6 years.

    Moving your player around on the ice should not be part of the skill gap of the game. Skating is second nature to hockey players, you don't think about how to pivot, how to face the puck, how to strafe and t-push, you just do it. The game should reflect that. Things like saucer passes, drop passes, deking, chopping puck, cycling, the manual gameplay mechanics combined with hockey knowledge and playmaking should be where the skill gap lies. This isn't a platformer. Moving your player around shouldn't be part of the skill gap, it should be second nature like it is in real life.

    Imagine in GTA if driving a car around always controlled and felt like it does when your rear tires are popped. Can you do it without crashing all the time? Ya, but it takes more concentration and effort than driving a car around should.

    That is what TPS is like to NHL. Can you move around and pivot and stop and face the play when you want to? Ya, but it's clunky and takes more effort, like driving a car with popped tires, than it should.

    This doesn't even touch on the fact that there are skating maneuvers that 10 year old kids can do, again second nature without thinking about it, that are still not possible with TPS 6 years running.

    Have a read through here is you want to catch up: https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/86471/ea-dev-tps-needs-to-be-better-or-else-this-game-will-never-reach-potential/p1

    Only in relation to the bolded.

    In gta5, the driving does feel like that until your driving skill in game(attribute, not not controller skill) raises. And as you said it can be done, albeit with greater difficulty. But difficulty is subjective.

    Tps isn't ideal and can definitely feel clunky in games with latency, but it's also not broken and can be mastered.

    So many so-called "top" players complain about skill being taken out of the game, and simultaneously complain about things being "too hard".

    Well, which is it?

    EA wanted to make these games easy to play and hard to master. While I agree skating like we're talking about is thoughtless in real life, it can be in this game too with some practice. The problem is you can't make it that easy because it's not like running in a basketball game. Skating is integral to your positioning and ability to do anything in a hockey game. It should be easy to play with, which imo it has been, and hard to master which again in the past it was exactly like that.

    The way I see it is be more open and willing to learn.

    Says the guy who hasn’t even played the game.
  • kezz123 wrote: »
    Things become harder than in real life, in this case, because of poor implementation. It does nothing to add balance to the game.

    The VC aspect is turning something that is not skill into one.
    I always considered heavy reliance on vc a scrubby auto aim feature in the old games. I rarely used it and had little or no issues squaring up or aiming. The game could be played without it before it was changed, and isn't that hard to use now. Then again, holding LT all game took skills yo.

    VC helped control your character and focus less on the skating aspect of the game (thats done without thinking IRL) and more on the hockey aspect of the game.

    If you like a skating simulator so much, why bother with hockey. Im sure there must be some olympic game you could play to do ballet on ice. You dont even need to bother with the hockey side of things interfering with the skating.

    And honestly, you think way too much of your abilities. Everyone can handle the game with or without VC. You arent special. Nobody wants to do it is the difference. It takes 0 skill either way, its just misplaced focus.

    This is where I say you've failed to learn the system. When tps first happened lots of people said what you are saying now. It's now been out for 6 years. I learned how to control it in the first year it was out, now going back and playing the game 6 years later, I can still control it with no problem. I'm not constantly thinking about it, sure when I was first learning it I had to think about how to do what I want to do. Now that I know how it all works and stuff, I just do what I want to do without consciously thinking about it.

    It's funny so many of you talk about the lowering of the skill ceiling of this game, and then you turn around and say, "I need a single button press to face the play." That will lower the skill ceiling even more. Be open to learning to do well with tps. Some will say, "it's way better in 13 than now." Well I've talked to a few who said it's really not much different. Maybe you need to take the time to learn about how it all works and practice it before just basely claiming it's broken with very little input.

    Well its relative but we could play 20 games of nhl 18 or whatever and 20 games of nhl 11 and i can promise you that although we would likely win most games in both games, in nhl 18 the scores would be super close like 2-1 games or 4-3 games and in nhl 11 it would be blowouts (unless your club was higher than 5th place in eashl in 11, then thats what i base my "winning by blowouts" for).

    So thats what we mean by lowered skill ceiling.

    We still win most of our games, I think we went 21-1-0 in Beta in nhl 17 but it wasnt fun one bit. Whether we won or the one time we lost, it felt unfair and unfun. Felt like unnecessarily close games. Felt like playing vs my 3 year old but being blindfolded and shackled.

    The TPS is not that hard, its just unrealistic and frustrating. it prevents me to do so many things I can do on real skates and it does look horrible. Just watch replays of your next 10 goals and watch the play in the zone...watch the defenders and watch the offensive men trying to get in position as the play unfolds. its horrible looking. Its where the bumper car example really shines.

    I dunno man. Im no TPS pro thats for sure but I have 0 intent on getting better at it. I really dont feel like it is a skill that pertains to the hockey game, case in point, as little as i play and use tps, i still win. What does that tell you? its not the tps thats the difference maker, its the vision of the ice.....but....the tps is just like a nonstop kick in the balls.
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    Militia mate, people know how to 'use' TPS, the problem is it's still junk. There's a reason it has been one of the most complained about features year after year, and it's not because people still haven't figured it out after 6 years.

    Moving your player around on the ice should not be part of the skill gap of the game. Skating is second nature to hockey players, you don't think about how to pivot, how to face the puck, how to strafe and t-push, you just do it. The game should reflect that. Things like saucer passes, drop passes, deking, chopping puck, cycling, the manual gameplay mechanics combined with hockey knowledge and playmaking should be where the skill gap lies. This isn't a platformer. Moving your player around shouldn't be part of the skill gap, it should be second nature like it is in real life.

    Imagine in GTA if driving a car around always controlled and felt like it does when your rear tires are popped. Can you do it without crashing all the time? Ya, but it takes more concentration and effort than driving a car around should.

    That is what TPS is like to NHL. Can you move around and pivot and stop and face the play when you want to? Ya, but it's clunky and takes more effort, like driving a car with popped tires, than it should.

    This doesn't even touch on the fact that there are skating maneuvers that 10 year old kids can do, again second nature without thinking about it, that are still not possible with TPS 6 years running.

    Have a read through here is you want to catch up: https://forums.ea.com/en/nhl/discussion/86471/ea-dev-tps-needs-to-be-better-or-else-this-game-will-never-reach-potential/p1

    WTH? We actually agree on one thing? Like 100% agreement? im gonna go pray....it may be the apocalypse.
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