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Please adapt! Stop whining!

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  • What I don't understand is two EA products FIFA and NHL

    FIFA... I can play a game without any lag or issues of being kicked or anything for that matter...

    NHL... My guy looks slow after two minutes of gameplay... I get weird spikes where i'll slow down then speed up... I'll experience what seems to be some weird controller lag where I'm slamming the opposite direction only to finally change that direction 5 seconds after pushing it... I randomly get disconnected even though all my bars are green and am not experience any internet issues

    Yeah, I have this too. It started this year. I thought it was my controller and bought a new one.
    Turns out those small thingys are rugged ****, they can sure stand a beating.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    What I don't understand is two EA products FIFA and NHL

    FIFA... I can play a game without any lag or issues of being kicked or anything for that matter...

    NHL... My guy looks slow after two minutes of gameplay... I get weird spikes where i'll slow down then speed up... I'll experience what seems to be some weird controller lag where I'm slamming the opposite direction only to finally change that direction 5 seconds after pushing it... I randomly get disconnected even though all my bars are green and am not experience any internet issues

    FIFA players complain about the same exact things. Go look at the Tweets and Facebook posts they make at EA. Full of connection issues and complaints of scripting, handicap, etc. It's practically identical to the NHL crowd.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    What I don't understand is two EA products FIFA and NHL

    FIFA... I can play a game without any lag or issues of being kicked or anything for that matter...

    NHL... My guy looks slow after two minutes of gameplay... I get weird spikes where i'll slow down then speed up... I'll experience what seems to be some weird controller lag where I'm slamming the opposite direction only to finally change that direction 5 seconds after pushing it... I randomly get disconnected even though all my bars are green and am not experience any internet issues

    FIFA players complain about the same exact things. Go look at the Tweets and Facebook posts they make at EA. Full of connection issues and complaints of scripting, handicap, etc. It's practically identical to the NHL crowd.

    Same thing with madden... I wonder what the constant is between these three games?
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    What I don't understand is two EA products FIFA and NHL

    FIFA... I can play a game without any lag or issues of being kicked or anything for that matter...

    NHL... My guy looks slow after two minutes of gameplay... I get weird spikes where i'll slow down then speed up... I'll experience what seems to be some weird controller lag where I'm slamming the opposite direction only to finally change that direction 5 seconds after pushing it... I randomly get disconnected even though all my bars are green and am not experience any internet issues

    FIFA players complain about the same exact things. Go look at the Tweets and Facebook posts they make at EA. Full of connection issues and complaints of scripting, handicap, etc. It's practically identical to the NHL crowd.

    Odd... I got FIFA 16 and never had an issue with online... it must have taken a turn since then or something
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    What I don't understand is two EA products FIFA and NHL

    FIFA... I can play a game without any lag or issues of being kicked or anything for that matter...

    NHL... My guy looks slow after two minutes of gameplay... I get weird spikes where i'll slow down then speed up... I'll experience what seems to be some weird controller lag where I'm slamming the opposite direction only to finally change that direction 5 seconds after pushing it... I randomly get disconnected even though all my bars are green and am not experience any internet issues

    FIFA players complain about the same exact things. Go look at the Tweets and Facebook posts they make at EA. Full of connection issues and complaints of scripting, handicap, etc. It's practically identical to the NHL crowd.

    Same thing with madden... I wonder what the constant is between these three games?

    The constant is whiny entitled gamers. Pick almost any game you want, you're going to find people beaching and moaning about it. Eh bud? ;)
  • Workin_OT wrote: »
    The constant is whiny entitled gamers. Pick almost any game you want, you're going to find people beaching and moaning about it. Eh bud? ;)

    I'm sure you can find a lot of whining on any forum for any game.
    But to have a five-second delay on some of your actions, and then bring it up in that games forum, that's not entitled or especially whiny, is it? o:)
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    You can't adapt to input delay, you will always be a 1/2 second behind your opponents, this game is reactionary, not based on making predictions.

    If you're legitimately 500ms behind in this game you've got some serious issues on your end to take care of. If you claim it's the only game it happens in, then either one half second is an over exaggeration or you just don't notice it in the other games you play as they might be better at concealing the latency than nhl.

    Here's the thing Metal. I played a few VS games of 17 on the One the last day or so where my players felt like they were 500 lbs playing on those double-bladed skates they have for noobs. Both games showed a flat-lined 22-24ms throughout the game with no noticeable spikes. My players couldn't move, they couldn't pass, they couldn't shoot, and they lost the puck just from my opponent skating within 5 feet of me. My opponents were speedy, fluent, and could do everything they were supposed to do just fine. They were teams filled with 150-lb Red Bull addicts.

    According to my own speed and latency tests AND those provided in-game there was no indication of anything that would cause problems of any sort on my end. Need I mention that this is the ONLY game that "acts up" at all....EVER. EA's NHL games are the ONLY games that give me problems online. I can do anything else I want online without ANY problems.

    I just want people to stop passing it off as a "It's a problem with your setup" issue because there is clearly nothing in my setup showing that the problem is "my setup." It just seems a bit odd how many people have claimed over the years that this is the only game that gives them problems, yet some people still claim that their equipment is the root cause of it all, and I really beg to differ.

    Sinbin is right about packet loss. Also I never said anything about it just being a latency issue. Maybe it's your TV that causes the input delay. I know mine does because it's a TV and I use it as a monitor. It's not 500ms of delay but it is noticeable. Seeing as the consoles are closer to pc than ever before maybe you need to look into a monitor instead of a TV for gaming on them.

    Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that and know that packet loss is worse than anything. 99.9% of the time it shows up as 0% packet loss. In the rare even that I do get packet loss it's usually less than 5% and is usually remedied by a full reset of my modem and router.

    As far as the TV goes, I use a 60 inch Samsung 4K unit with Game Mode enabled. For testing purposes I have experimented with my 27 inch Asus 1080p monitor and the results don't seem to vary between the screens. The only thing I can see (and I have to really be looking) is the menus are just a smidge faster to respond to my input through the monitor, but it surely isn't a game-changer by any means.

    I should clarify that it's not so much an input latency as it is a fat-man issue, like anything that requires an animation of any sort just seems to take longer to "play out" than it should. It feels like everything I try to do is half-speed half-power compared to my opponents. This is what it felt like yesterday and today for me to play, but if I go back a few days prior to that my players seemed fine. I compare internet stats for both scenarios and they are always identical to each other. How can the stats be the same all the time but the game-play quality is always pinged to one side of the spectrum or the other? There is no in between.

    You actually have one of the best "gaming TV's" Out there when on game mode it has tested to be one of the fastest made. I have the same TV only 55"
  • SpillGal wrote: »
    Workin_OT wrote: »
    The constant is whiny entitled gamers. Pick almost any game you want, you're going to find people beaching and moaning about it. Eh bud? ;)

    I'm sure you can find a lot of whining on any forum for any game.
    But to have a five-second delay on some of your actions, and then bring it up in that games forum, that's not entitled or especially whiny, is it? o:)

    At least when I turn left on forza, my car goes left. In COD, when I want to run to the left, my guy goes to the left. In NHL, I push up, there is a delay, then my guy takes a quick step back, then tries to move forward slowly. But it doesn't matter, by that time I get crushed or the puck poke spammed away.
  • SpillGal wrote: »

    OMG!! Laughing so hard I can't breathe LOL !! No one i front of the goalie and he can't stop a wrist shot from 50' away :D . Lundqvist probbly had ''My balls are itching'' syndrome LOLLL.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    Video is perfect example of what's wrong with this game "RNG"

    Perfect cross crease one timer, whif! because EA RNG% human error lottery says "not today", then on the rebound the other skater crosses blue line and floats a wrister from the point that goes in?

    Those are two opposite quality shots, the in close one timer is about has high% of scoring chance besides a breakaway in the game of hockey and that floater from the blue line is one of the lowest % of scoring chances in the game of hockey, yet which one went in?

    And before anyone says that was a rarity you are Wrong! This missing/whiffing in close one timers is common, and weak shots from far out go in quite a bit.

    That floater from the point is a 1 in 100 shot, that in close one timer is a 60/100 shot.
  • Rename85419
    85 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    Video is perfect example of what's wrong with this game "RNG"

    Perfect cross crease one timer, whif! because EA RNG% human error lottery says "not today", then on the rebound the other skater crosses blue line and floats a wrister from the point that goes in?

    Those are two opposite quality shots, the in close one timer is about has high% of scoring chance besides a breakaway in the game of hockey and that floater from the blue line is one of the lowest % of scoring chances in the game of hockey, yet which one went in?

    And before anyone says that was a rarity you are Wrong! This missing/whiffing in close one timers is common, and weak shots from far out go in quite a bit.

    That floater from the point is a 1 in 100 shot, that in close one timer is a 60/100 shot.


    And if it doesn't go in there will more than likely be a juicy rebound that will go through your stick right on to the attacking teams and into the back of your net! This has been around for awhile too. Just take lazy slow paced writers or backhanders from range and you are almost guaranteed a rebound. It's the best way to score this year!
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    You can't adapt to input delay, you will always be a 1/2 second behind your opponents, this game is reactionary, not based on making predictions.

    If you're legitimately 500ms behind in this game you've got some serious issues on your end to take care of. If you claim it's the only game it happens in, then either one half second is an over exaggeration or you just don't notice it in the other games you play as they might be better at concealing the latency than nhl.

    Here's the thing Metal. I played a few VS games of 17 on the One the last day or so where my players felt like they were 500 lbs playing on those double-bladed skates they have for noobs. Both games showed a flat-lined 22-24ms throughout the game with no noticeable spikes. My players couldn't move, they couldn't pass, they couldn't shoot, and they lost the puck just from my opponent skating within 5 feet of me. My opponents were speedy, fluent, and could do everything they were supposed to do just fine. They were teams filled with 150-lb Red Bull addicts.

    According to my own speed and latency tests AND those provided in-game there was no indication of anything that would cause problems of any sort on my end. Need I mention that this is the ONLY game that "acts up" at all....EVER. EA's NHL games are the ONLY games that give me problems online. I can do anything else I want online without ANY problems.

    I just want people to stop passing it off as a "It's a problem with your setup" issue because there is clearly nothing in my setup showing that the problem is "my setup." It just seems a bit odd how many people have claimed over the years that this is the only game that gives them problems, yet some people still claim that their equipment is the root cause of it all, and I really beg to differ.

    Sinbin is right about packet loss. Also I never said anything about it just being a latency issue. Maybe it's your TV that causes the input delay. I know mine does because it's a TV and I use it as a monitor. It's not 500ms of delay but it is noticeable. Seeing as the consoles are closer to pc than ever before maybe you need to look into a monitor instead of a TV for gaming on them.

    If it was input delay caused by a TV then the delay would be there constantly. It's not constant for most people.. therefore it's most likely not TV lag.
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    Video is perfect example of what's wrong with this game "RNG"

    Perfect cross crease one timer, whif! because EA RNG% human error lottery says "not today", then on the rebound the other skater crosses blue line and floats a wrister from the point that goes in?

    Those are two opposite quality shots, the in close one timer is about has high% of scoring chance besides a breakaway in the game of hockey and that floater from the blue line is one of the lowest % of scoring chances in the game of hockey, yet which one went in?

    And before anyone says that was a rarity you are Wrong! This missing/whiffing in close one timers is common, and weak shots from far out go in quite a bit.

    That floater from the point is a 1 in 100 shot, that in close one timer is a 60/100 shot.

    Floater from the point? Did we watch the same video? Dude was in the high slot and took a snapper and beat him over the glove. On the flip side looked like other guy was too late on his one time attempt. Tighten up the D and that's likely not a goal against.

    Also my god does this game look bad from that camera, like NHL 99 style skating animations from that angle.
  • Well, that's also a part of the problem, we all have different views of what is a good goal and not.
    I feel like Lundquist have been eating shots like that for breakfast since he was 10. Some feels that's a nice goal ... I don't know, and frankly, I don't care.
    Might be my timing was off on the one-timer. I have played a couple thousand of games on "new-gen" and timing should be second-nature, I am confident that I don't time it any different when I connect the shot.

    My point is that this game rewards wiggling, gliding and wristers more than they do real hockeyplays, and I think that is sad, frustrating and the main reason sales are lower for each year.
  • SpillGal wrote: »
    Well, that's also a part of the problem, we all have different views of what is a good goal and not.
    I feel like Lundquist have been eating shots like that for breakfast since he was 10. Some feels that's a nice goal ... I don't know, and frankly, I don't care.
    Might be my timing was off on the one-timer. I have played a couple thousand of games on "new-gen" and timing should be second-nature, I am confident that I don't time it any different when I connect the shot.

    My point is that this game rewards wiggling, gliding and wristers more than they do real hockeyplays, and I think that is sad, frustrating and the main reason sales are lower for each year.

    It's always favored deking over passing plays. I am not saying your view is wrong just saying there's other ways to view the same incident. Yes the shot appeared to be a weak one but it was picking the top corner and you did give up quite a lot of ice.

    However you raise another issue with the game, how much should the attributes matter. Should the game err towards balance or should the guy who has the better rated players have a better chance at winning especially with a top level goalie. Hard to justify either way. Especially in what is supposed to be a competitive online environment.
  • Looked like a weak goal to me. No screen wrister from above the circle with the goalie a foot above his crease? I'd give my goalie that shot 10 times outta 10.
  • It's always favored deking over passing plays. I am not saying your view is wrong just saying there's other ways to view the same incident. Yes the shot appeared to be a weak one but it was picking the top corner and you did give up quite a lot of ice.

    However you raise another issue with the game, how much should the attributes matter. Should the game err towards balance or should the guy who has the better rated players have a better chance at winning especially with a top level goalie. Hard to justify either way. Especially in what is supposed to be a competitive online environment.
    Cool, now we're getting somewhere, my bad D aside.
    I think I might be a little older than you, cause I disagree that this game always has favored deking over passing. I think the ballerina hockey saw it's light somewhere around NHL 12.
    Gradually it got worse, up until 14, where all that was happening was dekes and forced passes.
    Before this, moving the puck was your best strategy.
    There has always been some kind of unbalance though.
    Every time they introduced a new feature, game would be geared towards that. Making sure their new feature would really shine.
    In fact, I think the last time this series was somewhat balanced was in 2004. I hear people complaining about magnet passing. I wouldn't know cause I always played with a lot of passes. At that point, I had 10 years practice of reading the play, knowing the AI's routes, knowing which passes would be considered good by the game and vice versa ( i .e. Never play a short pass, it will run right through your player).
    So me? I would be setting up those plays regardless, but it makes sense, passing was probably overpowered ****, that year, and I loved it!

    How much the attributes should matter? I guess you're saying this since I mentioned Lundquist?
    Bad wording from me, trying to hammer home a point. I should have said NHL level goalie.
    It's cool if shots like that goes in at the rate of 1/500. But in this game? If you can do that glide, it's 1 out of 5 or something like that. Regardless of ratings of shooter and goalie.
    But back to your question. Look at HUT, you want ratings to matter a lot, don't you? That's sort of the whole point of that mode.
    EASHL? Even with cookie- cutter classes, it would be more fun if you could feel more of a difference between playmaker and power forward.
    Vs? Now that's a little different. I don't know how many times I have played against last years Stanley Cup winner over the years. If I say 80%, I'm not far off.
    Still, I think attributes should count a lot, but you'd need a better match-making engine, for this to work.
    That is if the attributes counted more and the game stopped awarding bad passes, soft wristers and so on...
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    SpillGal wrote: »
    Well, that's also a part of the problem, we all have different views of what is a good goal and not.
    I feel like Lundquist have been eating shots like that for breakfast since he was 10. Some feels that's a nice goal ... I don't know, and frankly, I don't care.
    Might be my timing was off on the one-timer. I have played a couple thousand of games on "new-gen" and timing should be second-nature, I am confident that I don't time it any different when I connect the shot.

    My point is that this game rewards wiggling, gliding and wristers more than they do real hockeyplays, and I think that is sad, frustrating and the main reason sales are lower for each year.

    It's always favored deking over passing plays. I am not saying your view is wrong just saying there's other ways to view the same incident. Yes the shot appeared to be a weak one but it was picking the top corner and you did give up quite a lot of ice.

    However you raise another issue with the game, how much should the attributes matter. Should the game err towards balance or should the guy who has the better rated players have a better chance at winning especially with a top level goalie. Hard to justify either way. Especially in what is supposed to be a competitive online environment.

    Yeah... As an actual Goalie in real life, that's a shot an NHL caliber Goalie will save 999 times out of 1000. The one time he might let it go is if he had to sneeze just before catching the puck or someone shining a strobe light directly into his eye ball.

    The problem is the philosophy the devs have on what constitutes good scoring in this game is very much askew.

    Ben ( @NHLDev ) would tell you that these type of goals happen in real life. True. But they happen once every blue moon. And usually there's a very good reason why they happen. Somebody like Matthews taking a really good shot on net?



    Yeah that could happen. But it's AUSTON FRICKIN MATTHEWS!!! But most of the goals in the NHL (or Ice Hockey in General) happen because the team with the puck is moving the play well, forcing the D-men and the goalie to move so that they can take a clear shot on net. And even then, it's not guaranteed that it's going to be a goal.

    In this game if you take a shot from a prime scoring spot, it's a goal. If you can manage to "glide" before taking the shot, it's a GUARANTEED goal.

    The philosophy the Developers have always had about their NHL series is that scoring is a matter of opportunism, get to the right spot, initiate the right mechanics (gliding, wiggling) and your chances of scoring a goal shoot right up. The gameplay is based on STATS rather than PERCENTAGES. That's why you can score 10 goals in three 5 minute periods on 12 shots. If the game was really based on the percentages, then no matter how much TIME per period, you'd always score on only 10-15% of your shots. So if you shoot 10 times, you'd score maybe 1 or 2 goals. Shoot 20 times, 2-3 goals. 30 times, 3-4 goals. Etc...

    If the game were like that, then people would need to value creative attack and puck possession over just dangles and opportunism like taking advantage of the game's flaws to score wonky goals.

    In essence: goalies need to make saves on straight up shots like that 99.9% of the time. I don't care what the "Elite" Gamechanger for Goalies (jonlol) says... "Oh but it would make Goalies too OP in ELITE E-sports games". Good!! Make them op on straight up shots. Force the teams to move the puck and take you out of position to score.

    HOW is that a BAD THING???

    Make the game about being creative on attack, not just skate, glide, shoot, score. People who love the game will adapt and find it fun again. Trust me.
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    SpillGal wrote: »
    Well, that's also a part of the problem, we all have different views of what is a good goal and not.
    I feel like Lundquist have been eating shots like that for breakfast since he was 10. Some feels that's a nice goal ... I don't know, and frankly, I don't care.
    Might be my timing was off on the one-timer. I have played a couple thousand of games on "new-gen" and timing should be second-nature, I am confident that I don't time it any different when I connect the shot.

    My point is that this game rewards wiggling, gliding and wristers more than they do real hockeyplays, and I think that is sad, frustrating and the main reason sales are lower for each year.

    It's always favored deking over passing plays. I am not saying your view is wrong just saying there's other ways to view the same incident. Yes the shot appeared to be a weak one but it was picking the top corner and you did give up quite a lot of ice.

    However you raise another issue with the game, how much should the attributes matter. Should the game err towards balance or should the guy who has the better rated players have a better chance at winning especially with a top level goalie. Hard to justify either way. Especially in what is supposed to be a competitive online environment.

    Yeah... As an actual Goalie in real life, that's a shot an NHL caliber Goalie will save 999 times out of 1000. The one time he might let it go is if he had to sneeze just before catching the puck or someone shining a strobe light directly into his eye ball.

    The problem is the philosophy the devs have on what constitutes good scoring in this game is very much askew.

    Ben ( @NHLDev ) would tell you that these type of goals happen in real life. True. But they happen once every blue moon. And usually there's a very good reason why they happen. Somebody like Matthews taking a really good shot on net?



    Yeah that could happen. But it's AUSTON FRICKIN MATTHEWS!!! But most of the goals in the NHL (or Ice Hockey in General) happen because the team with the puck is moving the play well, forcing the D-men and the goalie to move so that they can take a clear shot on net. And even then, it's not guaranteed that it's going to be a goal.

    In this game if you take a shot from a prime scoring spot, it's a goal. If you can manage to "glide" before taking the shot, it's a GUARANTEED goal.

    The philosophy the Developers have always had about their NHL series is that scoring is a matter of opportunism, get to the right spot, initiate the right mechanics (gliding, wiggling) and your chances of scoring a goal shoot right up. The gameplay is based on STATS rather than PERCENTAGES. That's why you can score 10 goals in three 5 minute periods on 12 shots. If the game was really based on the percentages, then no matter how much TIME per period, you'd always score on only 10-15% of your shots. So if you shoot 10 times, you'd score maybe 1 or 2 goals. Shoot 20 times, 2-3 goals. 30 times, 3-4 goals. Etc...

    If the game were like that, then people would need to value creative attack and puck possession over just dangles and opportunism like taking advantage of the game's flaws to score wonky goals.

    In essence: goalies need to make saves on straight up shots like that 99.9% of the time. I don't care what the "Elite" Gamechanger for Goalies (jonlol) says... "Oh but it would make Goalies too OP in ELITE E-sports games". Good!! Make them op on straight up shots. Force the teams to move the puck and take you out of position to score.

    HOW is that a BAD THING???

    Make the game about being creative on attack, not just skate, glide, shoot, score. People who love the game will adapt and find it fun again. Trust me.

    To be fair, I think there are pros and cons to each side, and I happen to prefer stat based gameplay rather than percentages, for lack of better terms. Percentages are good because the statistics behind it all mean that over large periods of time you'll end up with an overall fair game, but the inherent problem is that you're guaranteed to have unfair individual games. For example, at 10% shooting, you're going to get shut out on a 20 SOG game once every 8 games or so, and at 20%, you're still going to get shut out on 10 SOG games once every 9 games, but you'll also potentially score 4 or more goals on 10 shots every 8 games. The problem is that those aren't significant outliers, and losing an important game because your opponent scored 5 goals on 10 shots and you only scored 3 goals on 20 shots even though all of the shots were roughly the same quality would be very frustrating to say the least.

    On the other hand though, stat based gameplay will give users a fair game over the short and long run. Players with better chances should win their games, but it is worth discussing what is currently considered a good scoring chance in this game. Certainly the glide left, shoot right shots and some others are far too easy to pull off right now, but it's also worth pointing out that if you simply tighten up those easy chances to make them easier to defend against, you essentially end up with percentage-like results because of the huge number of factors at play at any given time in the game, but player skill and consistency become what separates the 5 goals on 10 shots games from the 20 SOG shutouts.

    I think we both want the same thing, which is forcing teams to be more creative, but I don't know that it requires a complete overhaul on goalies, just better defensive tools and increasing goalie abilities on straight shots from players.
  • sgiz1
    537 posts Member
    The only way to make teams/players be more creative is to allow more passes to get thru defenders, this will promote passing more to teammates. The reason why this game has devolved into skating the puck into the corner and doing figure eights and skate to a defender then turn back in a loop is because it's more effective to be one man show than to pass.

    I'm talking about offensive zone of course.

    If passes keep getting deflected or intercepted teams stop trying to pass, over time passing becomes last option behind one man show or shooting even if low quality shots.

    Short of increasing the success of passing plays we will get more of the same one man show and low % shots on net as main strategy.
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