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NHL about to join booming esports market

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http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-nhl-join-booming-esports-party/

I wonder if the NHL will consult EA on breaking into the esports scene.

We all know the game isn’t ready for esports, but if they put pressure on EA, maybe they will actually start focusing on gameplay.

Or do they consult a different game studio altogether? Who knows.

Replies

  • deadman9999
    877 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....
  • NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    LMAO!! Classic!!

    I was flipping through channels the other day and there was a TV broadcast of a Rocket League competition. I think it was on a rather established channel as well. I just don't remember which one it was.

    Maybe EA should take a look at how they run things there and see why there are so many nuances with their own games which prevent them from ever being considered ESport. Maybe they could take a few pages from them to see why FUN is better than REALISTIC in gaming.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.
  • I've played hundreds of games and had it loop countless times. It got so bad at one point that the loop happened in almost every game. Funnily enough, yesterday we didn't have a single loop or lost goal, but my team mates reported fast forwarding a couple of times while I had none. So is de loop fixed now, I dunno?

    If EA should bring this game into the esports scene, they'd seriously embarrass themselves...so I hope they really do it. B)
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.

    So a team full buying with limited funds in CSGO to try and make a crazy play to win at all costs is boring? Or is it just because puck control is too easy in nhl that ragging the puck is an easy viable strategy.

    If the game is truly competitive it is viable for esports. EA games are not truly competitive because of the rng hidden in the player attributes and such.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.

    So a team full buying with limited funds in CSGO to try and make a crazy play to win at all costs is boring? Or is it just because puck control is too easy in nhl that ragging the puck is an easy viable strategy.

    If the game is truly competitive it is viable for esports. EA games are not truly competitive because of the rng hidden in the player attributes and such.

    None of the current sports games are esports ready. 2k is bringing in a whole new dev to to make their nba game esports ready because the one they have now isn't capable of putting out anything better than the dumpster fire the game already is.

    It doesn't matter how competitive it is or how there's just a few things wrong. It has to be perfect, there's no grey area. There is no, the goalie only went a little through the post instead of going straight through the net. Or, the goalie made the same on the 2 on 1 even though the puck went straight through the defense man who was laying in the ice. Or my personal favourite, a tripping call is a tripping call even if that means the player with the puck is standing still and you go to poke check and he goes flying.

    If it's going to be marketed and supported by not only the community but other companies looking for ad impressions and product placement, which is actually the main reason for expanding to esports, then it has to be perfect because no one wants to sit there and watch something that's half ****.

    And you can't even Argue against that. So before anyone tries to, ask yourself this question;

    Would you want to watch a game where the oilers were playing the leafs on Saturday at 7 prime time in Toronto, but as soon as the first minute and 30 seconds go by at the start of the second period, the play is suddenly blown dead and the clock is rewound to the start of the period and it has to start over again. And then that continues to happen over and over and over again and doesn't stop until everyone leaves the arena?

    Cause that would be the equivilant to esports NHL if you used the game right now
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.

    So a team full buying with limited funds in CSGO to try and make a crazy play to win at all costs is boring? Or is it just because puck control is too easy in nhl that ragging the puck is an easy viable strategy.

    If the game is truly competitive it is viable for esports. EA games are not truly competitive because of the rng hidden in the player attributes and such.

    None of the current sports games are esports ready. 2k is bringing in a whole new dev to to make their nba game esports ready because the one they have now isn't capable of putting out anything better than the dumpster fire the game already is.

    It doesn't matter how competitive it is or how there's just a few things wrong. It has to be perfect, there's no grey area. There is no, the goalie only went a little through the post instead of going straight through the net. Or, the goalie made the same on the 2 on 1 even though the puck went straight through the defense man who was laying in the ice. Or my personal favourite, a tripping call is a tripping call even if that means the player with the puck is standing still and you go to poke check and he goes flying.

    If it's going to be marketed and supported by not only the community but other companies looking for ad impressions and product placement, which is actually the main reason for expanding to esports, then it has to be perfect because no one wants to sit there and watch something that's half ****.

    And you can't even Argue against that. So before anyone tries to, ask yourself this question;

    Would you want to watch a game where the oilers were playing the leafs on Saturday at 7 prime time in Toronto, but as soon as the first minute and 30 seconds go by at the start of the second period, the play is suddenly blown dead and the clock is rewound to the start of the period and it has to start over again. And then that continues to happen over and over and over again and doesn't stop until everyone leaves the arena?

    Cause that would be the equivilant to esports NHL if you used the game right now

    My point exactly fix the looping/resetting and maybe try it for ESPORTS but dont fix it and you cant even be considered at this point
  • Well, what you all seem to forget is esports are played on lan not online so the looping would likely not be an issue at all but there's till a plethora of other issues with the game that keep it from being an esport title.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.

    I would think that if NHL were to ever go the e-sports route, that their best way to do so would be EASHL 6v6 and completely remove AI from the equation. I am curious as to why you are leaning towards them using versus style.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.

    So a team full buying with limited funds in CSGO to try and make a crazy play to win at all costs is boring? Or is it just because puck control is too easy in nhl that ragging the puck is an easy viable strategy.

    If the game is truly competitive it is viable for esports. EA games are not truly competitive because of the rng hidden in the player attributes and such.

    I really don't know anything about CSGO so I can't comment on that, but watching one guy rag the puck while the other chases him would not be fun for me. I'm sure plenty of people would love it, but it's not in the competitive spirit of the game. It's a cheap way to play and not something that personally I would enjoy.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.

    I would think that if NHL were to ever go the e-sports route, that their best way to do so would be EASHL 6v6 and completely remove AI from the equation. I am curious as to why you are leaning towards them using versus style.

    That would be fantastic. An e-sports EASHL would definitely be fun to watch. I was thinking head to head at first because that's how most e-sports games operate currently.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    I really don't know anything about CSGO so I can't comment on that, but watching one guy rag the puck while the other chases him would not be fun for me. I'm sure plenty of people would love it, but it's not in the competitive spirit of the game. It's a cheap way to play and not something that personally I would enjoy.

    I totally agree with you.
    When someone rags the puck you can put pressure on them by bringing a forward up, switch to the other forward to try and catch him between two forecheckers. For this to work you have to constantly switch between the two, cause the one your not controlling will turn home, no matter how offensive you have set your forechecking.
    Would be nice if the most offensive forechecking setting caused this to happen automatically.
    Also there is too often the ragger can just pass from behind the net right past your forechecker.
    Would also love if they made interceptions more likely to happen when you're in position.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    NHL 18 cant join esports as the game sits, imagine in front of 10,000 people two teams batteling, and than the game loops/resets during a live crowd....

    I've played hundreds of games and had it loop once. Regardless, the thing that makes NHL not so viable for e-sports is the complete lack of sportsmanship buy the players. Skill zone and ragging the puck are 2 things that can kill this game for e-sports. Those 2 things alone could be seen as strategy, but they would be incredibly boring to watch. Now, 2 players with a good, competitive spirit would be very fun to watch and make for a good e-sport. Sadly, that's not how people are these days. The win at all costs mentality is not fun to watch.

    I would think that if NHL were to ever go the e-sports route, that their best way to do so would be EASHL 6v6 and completely remove AI from the equation. I am curious as to why you are leaning towards them using versus style.

    That would be fantastic. An e-sports EASHL would definitely be fun to watch. I was thinking head to head at first because that's how most e-sports games operate currently.

    What esports you watching? CSGO is two 5 man teams, rocketleague is two 3 man teams, dota is two teams. Most of them are two teams not one player with many AI players. AI would never and should never be allowed in a esport.

    These are some win at all cost plays from csgo


    not the biggest fan of most of the commentators for this though.
  • B_Bunny
    888 posts Moderator
    edited November 2017
    There was an article talking about this like 3 years ago too. And if anything we've taken 2 steps backwards.

    Until I see some actual progress done towards it, im not even blinking an eye at this talk.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • symmer1983
    127 posts Member
    edited November 2017
    B-Bunny wrote: »
    There was an article talking about this like 3 years ago too. And if anything we've taken 2 steps backwards.

    Until I see some actual progress done towards it, im not even blinking an eye at this talk.

    I know Friedman has written about the topic in the past, but he seems more certain about the NHL getting involved and soon.


    Also, since the last article was written, several sports owners and franchises have jumped into the E-sports market and have started their own franchises, so that's kind of a big deal.
    @Bardockian1
    I would think that if NHL were to ever go the e-sports route, that their best way to do so would be EASHL 6v6 and completely remove AI from the equation. I am curious as to why you are leaning towards them using versus style.

    I strongly disagree that 6v6 EASHL would make for a good hockey esport.

    The point about getting rid of AI goes without saying - of course for a game to be an esports there can be no AI influence.

    However, with esports, you do not have to replicate the real life counterparts exactly the way they are.

    Esports hockey should break the mould a little bit. I definitely think EASHL 3's would be a far better way to go with an esport route.

    1. Much easier to spectate. Especially for people who don't watch hockey regularly. EASHL 6's can be a sloppy mess to watch - player indicators all over the screen, bad positioning etc. You have to consider the spectator experience when it comes to producing a successful esport.

    2. Easier to manage teams. It is easier to form and manage teams that have fewer players on them. Not to mention, the players would get a bigger cut of any prize money that is made. Teams made up of 4 or 5 players would be ideal (3 or 4 players and a goalie).

    3. Real life hockey gets the lowest viewership numbers out of all the major sports leagues out there - why would an esport hockey game try to copy what real life does when it is already behind the 8ball with viewership numbers? You have to think outside the box and make a game that will draw in people who are not traditional hockey fans necessarily, but people who like video games.
  • Spectating is easy for any esport because you aren't viewing it directly through the players screen. So there would be no indicators at all and it'd just be hockey. That said I don't see EA ever entering esports because their games have too much rng.
  • Spectating is easy for any esport because you aren't viewing it directly through the players screen. So there would be no indicators at all and it'd just be hockey. That said I don't see EA ever entering esports because their games have too much rng.

    In CSGO there are often times when you are viewing directly through the players screen, but I get what you’re saying. And yes there is definitely too much RNG - this game could not be seriously considered for esports.

    Still, to have a successful esport, the game must be exciting to watch. If real hockey struggles with viewership, then video game hockey which looks exactly like real hockey will not be any more successful.

    It’s ok for a video game to get creative, and be fun just for the sake of being fun rather than trying too hard to emulate real life.

  • I think we're all too colored of our own preferences to see what would work best.
    I mean I'm a Vs guy first and foremost, that's what I grew up with, it's where I feel most at home.
    Even if I'm searching for arguments on how A.I can be in the mix, it would be the same for everyone and so on, even I see that EASHL is the way to go with this. It's not supposed to be a programmers contest.

    Now, if it should be threes or sixes. Keep in mind that this is a sports game with its real-life counterpart.
    CSGO and Rocket League doesn't have this, there are no expectations to be met on the format of the play.
    People would expect sixes. Actually, this has the potential of turning spectators away
    "Nah, there's just three guys on each team, it's too easy, it's not hockey ... "

    Whenever I try to market hockey to people who don't watch it, they pretty much say the same things.
    "I can't see the puck", "It's too fast" "I don't understand it, what's all the lines on the ice for", "Can't see the players, it's like watching sacco-sacks with helmets on"
    Hockey does have a little step you need to climb, in order to enjoy the sport. It is hard to see the puck at times. Even with the TV producers of NHL, who are top of the world, you need some anticipation on where to look for the puck every now and then.

    With a very visible puck marker, that obstacle can be overcome.
    People are watching Rocket League cars and whatnot, so the whole sacco-sack argument, shouldn't be a thing. Then we're left with attracting people enough, so they would be willing to learn the rules.
    I think the market for watching people gliding 'n' wiggling is very limited, so that needs to go.
    RNG needs to be taken down to a minimum and solid objects needs to be solid at all times.
    I think EA has a very long way to go until this game is esports worthy, but all of the things needed to get there would be the very things this community is asking for every day.
    I really hope they will try.

  • SpillGal wrote: »

    Whenever I try to market hockey to people who don't watch it, they pretty much say the same things.
    "I can't see the puck", "It's too fast" "I don't understand it, what's all the lines on the ice for", "Can't see the players, it's like watching sacco-sacks with helmets on"
    Hockey does have a little step you need to climb, in order to enjoy the sport. It is hard to see the puck at times. Even with the TV producers of NHL, who are top of the world, you need some anticipation on where to look for the puck every now and then.

    With a very visible puck marker, that obstacle can be overcome.

    What if we made the puck more visible? Like make it glow and appear visible through the boards or something? And maybe have a streak trail the puck when it moves so you can see it move better? Oh and the streak can change color depending on how fast the puck is going!! Yeah! And have animated hockey robots somewhere!

    I can't believe no TV network has tried this yet. It would be a sure-fire success!!

    ;)

  • I know, it's easy to make fun of, eh?
    It's actually been a topic many years ago, check this out:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/sports/sports_nut/2014/01/foxtrax_glowing_puck_was_it_the_worst_blunder_in_tv_sports_history_or_was.html

    TV networks knows that tracking the puck is part of what's holding viewer numbers back.
    EA's NHL has a glowing puck marker, why do you think it's there?
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