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Attempting to cover issues with latency by spoofing network info in game?

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It appears in this installment of NHL the latency severly affects puck pickup and other functionality in the game. Described here as ”fat man” effect.

Are you attempting to hide this by showing lower pings to players?

I have had multiple, input delayed games where network information was constantly clean 36ms ping.

Replies

  • In this game if their reading isn't sub 20ms, you will notice the lag. Horribly optimized game. Only online game I've ever played (and I've played 100s ) where it matters if the servers/players are on different coasts.

    BTW for some insane reason they are cutting network round trip times in half in this game when they display network performance. So I'd you see 36 means your "ping"times are really 72ms. Sounds like you are connecting to wrong coast.
  • kitchener_boy
    354 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    After a reset, I had a ping of 5 ms from 7 or 8 mayby prior. So I have a ping of 10 then round trip. Thats good right?. I am usually around 3.45 mbps download and 0.60 ish upload. I'm in SouthWestern Ontario.
  • your download and upload speeds are trash...but it's really just your response from the servers that matter. 5, 7, or 8ms response time to the server is amazing really, you should have a perfect online connection (club wise). Unfortunately for us west coasters, and especially true for us west coasters who are with Telus, the absolute lowest my repsonse time is now is 33ms. I still have playable games about 1 in 10, but the rest are complete unresponsive, cant pick the puck up, auto spins, terrbile pivots and all the other crap that comes from a delayed connection
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    I used to have 14-16ms constant in EASHL games. Ever since the first true update to the game came out however, my pings have risen to 33-34ms.

    Nothing on my side has changed. I thought it was my network setup at home, I changed the cable, I factory reset my router, redid my home network, put my xbox one in the DMZ. I just can't get my pings to go back down to what they've been since NHL 14.

    My Download is 60 mbps and my Upload is 10mbps. Even when I used to stream, my pings would be stable around 25-26ms. I don't get it...
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    I used to have 14-16ms constant in EASHL games. Ever since the first true update to the game came out however, my pings have risen to 33-34ms.

    Nothing on my side has changed. I thought it was my network setup at home, I changed the cable, I factory reset my router, redid my home network, put my xbox one in the DMZ. I just can't get my pings to go back down to what they've been since NHL 14.

    My Download is 60 mbps and my Upload is 10mbps. Even when I used to stream, my pings would be stable around 25-26ms. I don't get it...

    My ping is around 24 - 26 and pretty constant. For the most part, very smooth gameplay. I get spikes here and there every once in awhile.
  • Yeah, I mean... It's playable.

    Like I said, I used to play while streaming and my ping would go up 10-12ms during. It was constant, so no big issues for me.

    But now my ping went up double for no reason (that I can understand) and what's weird is that when I tried streaming, my ping would just become unstable and spike up and down between 33ms and 39 ms. It makes NO sense...
  • your download and upload speeds are trash...but it's really just your response from the servers that matter. 5, 7, or 8ms response time to the server is amazing really, you should have a perfect online connection (club wise). Unfortunately for us west coasters, and especially true for us west coasters who are with Telus, the absolute lowest my repsonse time is now is 33ms. I still have playable games about 1 in 10, but the rest are complete unresponsive, cant pick the puck up, auto spins, terrbile pivots and all the other crap that comes from a delayed connection

    feel free to call them, demand to speak to their tier 2 or 3 engineers, point them to these forums (this and that other one) and they should see a pattern here..........................................
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Yeah, I mean... It's playable.

    Like I said, I used to play while streaming and my ping would go up 10-12ms during. It was constant, so no big issues for me.

    But now my ping went up double for no reason (that I can understand) and what's weird is that when I tried streaming, my ping would just become unstable and spike up and down between 33ms and 39 ms. It makes NO sense...

    ok hmm... who is your carrier & where are you located. i feel dumb for asking cause i know you've answered this before, but like i said in that other thread i am feeling incredibly lazy of late. so lazy in fact that i refuse to use the shift key to capitalize.
  • and one last thing here before i move to some chores and back to "Kingdom Come: Deliverance" -

    i'm on the east coast and like i said in another thread i have trial hours left on 18. i fired it up and still get 12-15 ms (to the east server i presume) which has been the norm for me since they intro'd the tool.
  • B_Bunny
    893 posts Moderator
    Or just not entirely working as intended. Instead of "twirls mustache" evil intentions.
    PSN: B-Bunny
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Yeah, I mean... It's playable.

    Like I said, I used to play while streaming and my ping would go up 10-12ms during. It was constant, so no big issues for me.

    But now my ping went up double for no reason (that I can understand) and what's weird is that when I tried streaming, my ping would just become unstable and spike up and down between 33ms and 39 ms. It makes NO sense...

    ok hmm... who is your carrier & where are you located. i feel dumb for asking cause i know you've answered this before, but like i said in that other thread i am feeling incredibly lazy of late. so lazy in fact that i refuse to use the shift key to capitalize.

    East Coast. ISP is Bell. Again, for the past few years, my ping has always been in the constant 12-15ms range with NHL. Even when NHL 18 came out, I was never bellow 16ms unless I somehow got saddled with West Coast players, and even then I don't think I've seen a ping higher than mid 40's. Except when I would stream then my ping would easily double (around the 31-35ms range), but it was very playable.

    But then right after the first official patch came out for NHL 18, boom! Pings have been always 29-33ms every game. And if I would stream (I don't anymore...) my pings were no worse than 39ms.
  • Im in the 30s and 40s and cannot win faceoffs to save my life unless im in the 20s
  • My ping is usually between 5-12ms, and game feels very sluggish, missing passes, unable to pickup puck. I much prefere playing it in 20-30ms where it seems to be optimized.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1839 posts Member
    edited February 2018
    Ping - never has been and never will be the true indicator of network performance.

    It's one of many measurements to discover connection quality - but only showcases the time it takes for a packet to be transmitted.

    It does nothing to show you the quality of the journey of that packet.
  • Ping - never has been and never will be the true indicator of network performance.

    It's one of many measurements to discover connection quality - but only showcases the time it takes for a packet to be transmitted.

    It does nothing to show you the quality of the journey of that packet.

    it is possible that the latency of the game is the latency of the most lagged player, in order to keep all players in sync with the "sever tick".

    so I may get "12 ms ping", but like you said that is just a measurement of MY packet delay / times.
  • Ping - never has been and never will be the true indicator of network performance.

    It's one of many measurements to discover connection quality - but only showcases the time it takes for a packet to be transmitted.

    It does nothing to show you the quality of the journey of that packet.

    High latency is the first indicator that your connection (either to the server or the client) is bad. If I play Ultra Street Fighter 4 and I see Orange/Red bars (high latency), then there's a high chance the connection to the other player will be bad. In fact, it's pretty much guaranteed.

    That said, this is the only game to my recollection where ping times of 40-60ms is severely debilitating. To the point where it's unplayable. In most other online multiplayer games, the pings have to reach 150ms and over before the player has to deal with latency issues like desyncing and input delay.
    Ping - never has been and never will be the true indicator of network performance.

    It's one of many measurements to discover connection quality - but only showcases the time it takes for a packet to be transmitted.

    It does nothing to show you the quality of the journey of that packet.

    it is possible that the latency of the game is the latency of the most lagged player, in order to keep all players in sync with the "sever tick".

    so I may get "12 ms ping", but like you said that is just a measurement of MY packet delay / times.

    If that were true, then everyone's ping would be the same. Yet when I ask, my teammates always have wildly different ping times from one another. Some will say under 7ms. Some will say they have 12-15ms. Some 20. Some 30. When someone's really lagging, they'll report having average ping times of over 60ms.

    60ms should be nothing... I've played online matches in many other games, some with 30 players a side, with 120ms ping and it was as smooth as butter. This game... It just leaves you with more "????" than answers.
  • Greyinsi wrote: »
    My ping is usually between 5-12ms, and game feels very sluggish, missing passes, unable to pickup puck. I much prefere playing it in 20-30ms where it seems to be optimized.
    Exactly same for me. I've started to skip those <10ms games, they're too much of frustration. I just don't get it...
  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Ping - never has been and never will be the true indicator of network performance.

    It's one of many measurements to discover connection quality - but only showcases the time it takes for a packet to be transmitted.

    It does nothing to show you the quality of the journey of that packet.

    High latency is the first indicator that your connection (either to the server or the client) is bad. If I play Ultra Street Fighter 4 and I see Orange/Red bars (high latency), then there's a high chance the connection to the other player will be bad. In fact, it's pretty much guaranteed.

    That said, this is the only game to my recollection where ping times of 40-60ms is severely debilitating. To the point where it's unplayable. In most other online multiplayer games, the pings have to reach 150ms and over before the player has to deal with latency issues like desyncing and input delay.
    Ping - never has been and never will be the true indicator of network performance.

    It's one of many measurements to discover connection quality - but only showcases the time it takes for a packet to be transmitted.

    It does nothing to show you the quality of the journey of that packet.

    it is possible that the latency of the game is the latency of the most lagged player, in order to keep all players in sync with the "sever tick".

    so I may get "12 ms ping", but like you said that is just a measurement of MY packet delay / times.

    If that were true, then everyone's ping would be the same. Yet when I ask, my teammates always have wildly different ping times from one another. Some will say under 7ms. Some will say they have 12-15ms. Some 20. Some 30. When someone's really lagging, they'll report having average ping times of over 60ms.

    60ms should be nothing... I've played online matches in many other games, some with 30 players a side, with 120ms ping and it was as smooth as butter. This game... It just leaves you with more "????" than answers.

    not really, no. your "ping imes" to the actual "server" (or monitor platform) is not necessarily relative (or impacted) to the ping of others. meaning, you are getting 12 and let's say everyone else is 43. your network performance monitor tool would still reflect your actual "ping" times to that server / monitor as 12.

    what I am talking about is the game itself, if there is limited client side predictability (and I would have to assume so in comparison to FPS) may require a... more "intensive" exchanging of input upload / state update with a limited or nonexistent prediction buffer.

    if you have 12 ms and everyone else (11 people let's just say) have 43 and a game doesn't have the ability to "dumb down" the exchange of inputs to the server and subsequent server to client data then you could use a form of control that would "lower" the "game traffic exchange" or alter the speed of the game to accommodate the "slowest" ping times. this scenario would not reflect on your "ping times" to a monitor platform.

    as for "60ms should be nothing... I've played online matches in many other games, some with 30 players a side, with 120ms ping and it was as smooth as butter. This game... It just leaves you with more "????" than answers" yeah.... well, I am with you there. But, I still go back to the fact that I think this game with all the animations, pokes, sweeps, hits, dekes, minute moves, cuts shots blocks and the attempt to replicate "authentic puck physics" that client side predictability isn't as present or reliable or relied upon as most FPS and other online games and the game requires a "tighter" sync from every console with a low threshold tolerance.

    but look, I'm just a fry cook... not a game developer.
  • In eashl, i have an idea of what causes it.

    Basically if the host is a west coast team, and it's a west coast server, but the opponent is east coast, the game will be slow and fat man lag, and the ping will reflect your connection to the server.

    Same thing happens if host is east connected to the east server, but opponent is west.

    When both teams are west or east, (or euro), and connected to the corresponding server, game plays great.

    Problem is, how many people have the incorrect "recommended " server when in the search club menu? Up until a month ago or so, i was regularly being recommended to play east, while I'm in calgary. It's been consistently setting me up on west since a month ago, but how many users aren't?

    I feel the last paragraph is what's causing the issue. Even had at least a few Swedes connect to what should be a west server on a drop in game earlier this week.

    Easy fix. LET US CHOOSE OUR OWN DAMN SERVER.
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