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NHL 20 CHEL NOTES - HUT Deep dive


Andrew Marks HUT Producer and Nicholas Shewchuk Live Content Producer discuss HUT in NHL 20.
Check it out here.

Phantom pokes and kicks (Videos)

I kept wondering how I lost this puck until I slowed it down and saw that nothing really caused me to lose it other than the puck going somewhat near the CPU dman's skate. But the puck just flys off my stick, and it flys up in the air for no reason. It just seemed like "okay, the CPU is breathing on you, time to lose the puck.


This one I have at full speed, then slow-mo. There was no poke check initiated, no stick lift. His stick never touched the puck, yet I lost it, and he takes it and scores a goal. Puck control is broken. Let's not forget how he just absolutely wrecked and sprung up with no issues, skated full speed and agility and got the puck....NO EA! NO!


Lastly, this is something EA seems content on having in the game to aid cherry pickers and guys who play ZERO defense. AI having super human speed is the most unrealistic thing that is so noticeable.

Replies

  • Their "hit boxes" are too big and need to be more tight to the body. I'd imagine the radius on the skates is an inch or two bigger than it should be. Stuff like this has been happening on all the current gen games.
  • RSall14 wrote: »
    Their "hit boxes" are too big and need to be more tight to the body. I'd imagine the radius on the skates is an inch or two bigger than it should be. Stuff like this has been happening on all the current gen games.

    The collision volumes are also quite sensitive, which was originally done to ensure consistency before we made any other tuning, so if a piece of the stick collision volume, in the current tuning, hits any piece of the defensive players body or stick, the puck will come free.

    The next tuner will have an adjustment to this, where it will take a bigger piece of contact to trigger a collision. This will be done for penalty balance mostly, to help players making plays from really good angles but got a slight piece of geo but will also impact collisions for stick on stick and stick on body as well until we look at future updates to control the two independent.

    Since you have called out the sensitivity of the latter here anyways, it could have benefits in both places.
  • guacapoli wrote: »
    This one I have at full speed, then slow-mo. There was no poke check initiated, no stick lift. His stick never touched the puck, yet I lost it, and he takes it and scores a goal.

    Incidental stick on stick contact can also cause puck loss. The stick doesn't have to touch the puck. Either could have happened in this case as the puck carrier himself from the gameplay camera view was blocking the moment where the defensive players stick was in front of him possibly making the contact to disrupt the control.

  • NHLDev
    1301 posts NHL Developer
    edited September 2018
    guacapoli wrote: »
    Lastly, this is something EA seems content on having in the game to aid cherry pickers and guys who play ZERO defense. AI having super human speed is the most unrealistic thing that is so noticeable.

    The ai can have reaction time to respond to changes in possession or loose puck that is faster than some humans at times but there isn't anything artificial when it comes to the skating mechanics and attribute effects themselves.

    It is hard to say what the attribute balance is between the players in the clips but that would have a base effect. On top of that, a puck carrier has a penalty to their speed when carrying the puck unless they are in straight ahead hustle, pushing the puck ahead, where they are at their full skating potential. In these clips, the ai players are often in full acceleration, straight ahead hustle before the puck carrier is and thus closing the gap the most during those windows. The moment where the one player has to pickup the puck slows them down as well when the defensive player stays in full hustle during that time.





  • NHLDev wrote: »
    guacapoli wrote: »
    This one I have at full speed, then slow-mo. There was no poke check initiated, no stick lift. His stick never touched the puck, yet I lost it, and he takes it and scores a goal.

    Incidental stick on stick contact can also cause puck loss. The stick doesn't have to touch the puck. Either could have happened in this case as the puck carrier himself from the gameplay camera view was blocking the moment where the defensive players stick was in front of him possibly making the contact to disrupt the control.

    You (devs) literally said this wasn't going to happen because it made the game too difficult to play and was too realistic. I don't have the thread but I specifically recall this being a discussion that the team had the ability to allow stick on stick and stick on body collisions that acted like real life and caused puck loss. The conclusion that was it would be available in sliders but not in online gameplay...

    So make up your mind, keep it or don't.
  • RSall14
    493 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    guacapoli wrote: »
    This one I have at full speed, then slow-mo. There was no poke check initiated, no stick lift. His stick never touched the puck, yet I lost it, and he takes it and scores a goal.

    Incidental stick on stick contact can also cause puck loss. The stick doesn't have to touch the puck. Either could have happened in this case as the puck carrier himself from the gameplay camera view was blocking the moment where the defensive players stick was in front of him possibly making the contact to disrupt the control.

    You (devs) literally said this wasn't going to happen because it made the game too difficult to play and was too realistic. I don't have the thread but I specifically recall this being a discussion that the team had the ability to allow stick on stick and stick on body collisions that acted like real life and caused puck loss. The conclusion that was it would be available in sliders but not in online gameplay...

    So make up your mind, keep it or don't.

    The difference is the stick on stick requires one player to have the puck. It won't trigger just skating by someone without the puck . If they went and gave us 100% collisions just skating next to a player with his stick out would stop us and make us stumble. That would be terrible given the ratio of ice to the size of player models. It would make those instances where your leg gets stuck on another player a million times worse.
  • NHLDev
    1301 posts NHL Developer
    edited September 2018

    You (devs) literally said this wasn't going to happen because it made the game too difficult to play and was too realistic. I don't have the thread but I specifically recall this being a discussion that the team had the ability to allow stick on stick and stick on body collisions that acted like real life and caused puck loss. The conclusion that was it would be available in sliders but not in online gameplay...

    So make up your mind, keep it or don't.

    It has been in the game working like this for all modes on competitive game style (or its equivalent before we switched to that naming) each year I have been the gameplay producer (which has been every year since 13 except for 15). It is something I proposed we do for game balance and rewarding good defensive position.

    Before I was on the team, it was always turned off for online.

    The other thing that people still refer to as not having tech to fully resolve yet is the sticks actually being in actual physics as there would be too many subtle interactions to resolve to not get caught up in odd ways. That doesn't stop us from recognizing stick on stick collisions or stick on body collisions as we get those intersections and still dealing with the resulting loss of possession.

    This means we can reward good position and not allow players to receive pucks or shoot puck by putting their stick through a player, etc.

    On other game styles such as Traditional, we don't register incidental stick on stick contact and have a time after pickup that we allow a grace period before we turn on stick on body incidental contact. This is a lot closer to what the game used to play on for online settings (hence the name Traditional as a game style) except the body collisions didn't ever turn on before. This is what you would see when playing Ones.

    For Arcade, we don't consider incidental stick collisions so that is why you will see them happen in Threes without puck loss.

    Over the years, we have also improved the consistency of our collision detection, which improves the consistency of those rules.
  • ExSnake01
    444 posts Member
    edited September 2018
    The crazy flip here is that I never really noticed this during the beta. The gameplay was nearly perfect. How much did EA change the tuners from BETA to final version?

    Don't get me wrong, 19 is MUCH better than 18 but I think you guys slowed down the players and made it much more difficult to maintain puck possession. You guys should seriously consider going back to the tuner settings of the beta if you ask me.
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