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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

Replies

  • sgiz1
    536 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Not necessary to track games, we've all been apart of too many lopsided games where the dominant team loses.

    Again, 12 min. TOA with 27 shots should not lose to 3 min. TOA and 9 shots.
    Post edited by sgiz1 on
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    "You can still play well and lose. There's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with playing better than your opponent and losing. It happens in real hockey too."

    I get pretty sick of hearing this in rebuttal to the dynamic difficulty/ice tilt/whatever you wanna call it that plagues this franchise. YES - we get it, there are plenty of games throughout an NHL season where an opponent who doesn't deserve to win comes out with a W. Quick instance - CAR vs WPG on Sunday night. Carolina put up almost 50 shots on goal, doubling that of WPG and controlled most of the game. They lost 2-1.

    The point is this type of nonsense happens DAILY in this game. Even when I win games where I dominate they are sweat fest grinds down to the last sound of the horn. This has been an argument from a vast majority of the community for years now and people still try to find a way to defend that it doesn't exist.

    It's also very tiring hearing about people blaming their losses on some voodoo built in to the game that forces you to lose. Have some accountability for your losses. If you guys spent more time on paying attention to the mistakes you're making, you'd be able to correct those and probably see that reflected in your record.
  • I also have a theory there is some connection on how well your goalie plays depending on which setup you use. I need to look into it more. I feel I've noticed a lot after playing the game so much.

    like players skating offside and standing on the wrong side of the blue line waiting for a pass.

    That interference rarely gets called anymore when two teams are racing for a dumped in puck. Meaning you can get away with turning and checking them to slow your opponent down (i'm ok with this as it makes the race fun )

    I hate that you hit a guy, and he is knocked to the ice and can get up and get the puck before you. At the very least put this in the hands of the player and make them tap to get up.

    One of the biggest issues is that a player not controlling the puck holder, makes it more difficult to get the puck off them. It's harder to get a puck of a player not moving then it is moving. Which imo feels the opposite.

  • Sinbin wrote: »
    "You can still play well and lose. There's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with playing better than your opponent and losing. It happens in real hockey too."

    I get pretty sick of hearing this in rebuttal to the dynamic difficulty/ice tilt/whatever you wanna call it that plagues this franchise. YES - we get it, there are plenty of games throughout an NHL season where an opponent who doesn't deserve to win comes out with a W. Quick instance - CAR vs WPG on Sunday night. Carolina put up almost 50 shots on goal, doubling that of WPG and controlled most of the game. They lost 2-1.

    The point is this type of nonsense happens DAILY in this game. Even when I win games where I dominate they are sweat fest grinds down to the last sound of the horn. This has been an argument from a vast majority of the community for years now and people still try to find a way to defend that it doesn't exist.

    It's also very tiring hearing about people blaming their losses on some voodoo built in to the game that forces you to lose. Have some accountability for your losses. If you guys spent more time on paying attention to the mistakes you're making, you'd be able to correct those and probably see that reflected in your record.
    "Even when I win games where I dominate...". So it's not just getting beaten. I've understood that even the top players have said there is something "weird" in this game.

    Intentional or not, who knows.
  • I dont play 10 games a day - I maybe average 3 to 4 if I'm lucky. What is your defense here? I play too many games in a given day so I should expect most of those to be grinding wins with a few losses sprinkled in here or there to keep players interested in the franchise when I outshoot/outplay my opponents in every aspect of the game (shots, toa, faceoff %, pass %, etc)? Give me a break, man.
  • Sinbin wrote: »

    It's also very tiring hearing about people blaming their losses on some voodoo built in to the game that forces you to lose. Have some accountability for your losses. If you guys spent more time on paying attention to the mistakes you're making, you'd be able to correct those and probably see that reflected in your record.

    You're simply not listening. I'm not complaining about the mistakes I've made. if/when i make mistakes that is on me. It's not possible to build "voodoo" into anything. Let's drop that link of thinking.

    What is possible is that there is code added to make gamers more competitive. Or to make things seem more random, or just make things more "fun". However, those specific parts of code depending on the situation lead to a negative response during play, or create artificial situations your player isn't in control of.

    Let's list a few of the things that the player isn't in control of for example:

    1. Picking up the puck after a penalty has been called. You can try, but you aren't in 100% control of if your player touches the puck to get a whistle, or play continues.

    2. The game increasing shot accuracy towards the end of a period. Notice how goals are almost always scored in the final minute of a period? IMO the reason is due to the game making it easier.

    3. defending against a locked on body check. no matter what, your player will react, lose the puck, or just slow down. People use this to defend against breakways.

    4. preventing cached button presses. ever notice you accidentally hit pass twice due to lag or control latency, and this causes you to pass at a time seconds later when you don't expect it? Ever notice how this is inconsistent, and sometimes you seemingly can't pass twice quickly, give me an option to turn this off for everything but one-timers.

    5. The player you are controlling performing an AI action after you grab control. Often things like stick lift, poke, changing direction, or reaching for the puck put you in a bad spot. especially the changing skating direction.

    6. Ai controlled players getting stuck on the back of the net. this happened to me last night and luckily i shot the puck over the glass to get a face off.

    7. The puck moving quickly off your stick when you another player makes contact. Usually resulting in a direct turnover. I can understand this when you get knocked down or separated from the puck, but it happens at times that are unrealistic or inconvenient. this results in ping pong when combined with item #4. This causes players to hit buttons before they have the puck, only each do it repeatedly

    8. Poking at a loose puck twice ( hitting it both times ) and on the second hit, the puck gets knocked towards an opponent. I hate this one, as it sometimes happens due to #4.

    9. Opponent players moving before a face-off has been won. I saw this lots in NHL18 where you watched the replay, one of the opponent players moved the moment the puck left the refs hand.

    I can list more. Everything I listed you can see playing the game. They occur often and affect the outcome of a game.
  • HockeyCityUSA
    500 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »

    It's also very tiring hearing about people blaming their losses on some voodoo built in to the game that forces you to lose. Have some accountability for your losses. If you guys spent more time on paying attention to the mistakes you're making, you'd be able to correct those and probably see that reflected in your record.

    You're simply not listening. I'm not complaining about the mistakes I've made. if/when i make mistakes that is on me. It's not possible to build "voodoo" into anything. Let's drop that link of thinking.

    What is possible is that there is code added to make gamers more competitive. Or to make things seem more random, or just make things more "fun". However, those specific parts of code depending on the situation lead to a negative response during play, or create artificial situations your player isn't in control of.

    Let's list a few of the things that the player isn't in control of for example:

    1. Picking up the puck after a penalty has been called. You can try, but you aren't in 100% control of if your player touches the puck to get a whistle, or play continues.

    2. The game increasing shot accuracy towards the end of a period. Notice how goals are almost always scored in the final minute of a period? IMO the reason is due to the game making it easier.

    3. defending against a locked on body check. no matter what, your player will react, lose the puck, or just slow down. People use this to defend against breakways.

    4. preventing cached button presses. ever notice you accidentally hit pass twice due to lag or control latency, and this causes you to pass at a time seconds later when you don't expect it? Ever notice how this is inconsistent, and sometimes you seemingly can't pass twice quickly, give me an option to turn this off for everything but one-timers.

    5. The player you are controlling performing an AI action after you grab control. Often things like stick lift, poke, changing direction, or reaching for the puck put you in a bad spot. especially the changing skating direction.

    6. Ai controlled players getting stuck on the back of the net. this happened to me last night and luckily i shot the puck over the glass to get a face off.

    7. The puck moving quickly off your stick when you another player makes contact. Usually resulting in a direct turnover. I can understand this when you get knocked down or separated from the puck, but it happens at times that are unrealistic or inconvenient. this results in ping pong when combined with item #4. This causes players to hit buttons before they have the puck, only each do it repeatedly

    8. Poking at a loose puck twice ( hitting it both times ) and on the second hit, the puck gets knocked towards an opponent. I hate this one, as it sometimes happens due to #4.

    9. Opponent players moving before a face-off has been won. I saw this lots in NHL18 where you watched the replay, one of the opponent players moved the moment the puck left the refs hand.

    I can list more. Everything I listed you can see playing the game. They occur often and affect the outcome of a game.

    I'm pretty sure he is calling your line of thinking "voodoo" as he believes what you are claiming doesn't exist.

    As I am reading through your list, you make it sound like many of the events occur against you. Do some of them work in your favor as well? I'm not arguing that there isn't faulty coding, but to go out and say EA has implemented this code on purpose just doesn't make sense to me.

    Everything you mentioned goes both ways in my opinion. I have been fortunate to have this list benefit me whether I was winning/losing a game. So to say the opposing team has an advantage or is being given a competitive edge because they may be the weaker team is just crazy talk to me. (Note: I don't know if you think this way, but some will argue that your list only goes one way.)

  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »

    It's also very tiring hearing about people blaming their losses on some voodoo built in to the game that forces you to lose. Have some accountability for your losses. If you guys spent more time on paying attention to the mistakes you're making, you'd be able to correct those and probably see that reflected in your record.

    You're simply not listening. I'm not complaining about the mistakes I've made. if/when i make mistakes that is on me. It's not possible to build "voodoo" into anything. Let's drop that link of thinking.

    What is possible is that there is code added to make gamers more competitive. Or to make things seem more random, or just make things more "fun". However, those specific parts of code depending on the situation lead to a negative response during play, or create artificial situations your player isn't in control of.

    Let's list a few of the things that the player isn't in control of for example:

    1. Picking up the puck after a penalty has been called. You can try, but you aren't in 100% control of if your player touches the puck to get a whistle, or play continues.

    2. The game increasing shot accuracy towards the end of a period. Notice how goals are almost always scored in the final minute of a period? IMO the reason is due to the game making it easier.

    3. defending against a locked on body check. no matter what, your player will react, lose the puck, or just slow down. People use this to defend against breakways.

    4. preventing cached button presses. ever notice you accidentally hit pass twice due to lag or control latency, and this causes you to pass at a time seconds later when you don't expect it? Ever notice how this is inconsistent, and sometimes you seemingly can't pass twice quickly, give me an option to turn this off for everything but one-timers.

    5. The player you are controlling performing an AI action after you grab control. Often things like stick lift, poke, changing direction, or reaching for the puck put you in a bad spot. especially the changing skating direction.

    6. Ai controlled players getting stuck on the back of the net. this happened to me last night and luckily i shot the puck over the glass to get a face off.

    7. The puck moving quickly off your stick when you another player makes contact. Usually resulting in a direct turnover. I can understand this when you get knocked down or separated from the puck, but it happens at times that are unrealistic or inconvenient. this results in ping pong when combined with item #4. This causes players to hit buttons before they have the puck, only each do it repeatedly

    8. Poking at a loose puck twice ( hitting it both times ) and on the second hit, the puck gets knocked towards an opponent. I hate this one, as it sometimes happens due to #4.

    9. Opponent players moving before a face-off has been won. I saw this lots in NHL18 where you watched the replay, one of the opponent players moved the moment the puck left the refs hand.

    I can list more. Everything I listed you can see playing the game. They occur often and affect the outcome of a game.

    I'm pretty sure he is calling your line of thinking "voodoo" as he believes what you are claiming doesn't exist.

    As I am reading through your list, you make it sound like many of the events occur against you. Do some of them work in your favor as well? I'm not arguing that there isn't faulty coding, but to go out and say EA has implemented this code on purpose just doesn't make sense to me.

    Everything you mentioned goes both ways in my opinion. I have been fortunate to have this list benefit me whether I was winning/losing a game. So to say the opposing team has an advantage or is being given a competitive edge because they may be the weaker team is just crazy talk to me. (Note: I don't know if you think this way, but some will argue that your list only goes one way.)

    Well, that's where I disagree with him. There are no magical random things happening here, there's code written to make things happen. All the items I listed does go both ways, but I still dislike the majority of them. They are artificial and that is part of the problem. In that one player comes out feeling something is unfair and they didn't have control over it.

    The more control players have to do things, the less unfair they see it. I'm not against doing things to make the game more fun, but they need to be organic and handled in a way that players shouldn't notice. Most of what I listed is extremely visible and that makes players angry.

    I don't mind losing to a player that is better than me, that gives me the challenge to get better. But when you lose to a player that is a lower rank than yourself, and that is combined with their skill ( which may not explain their rank at the time ) and the game does things to help them or make it easier, it really ruins the gameplay exp. Even worse when they taunt you after.
  • I also forgot one to add to the list. button presses that go ignored by the game. I've seen this happen offline too which is odd. It also happens in 2018. I've noticed this happens mostly when in the defensive zone.
  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »

    It's also very tiring hearing about people blaming their losses on some voodoo built in to the game that forces you to lose. Have some accountability for your losses. If you guys spent more time on paying attention to the mistakes you're making, you'd be able to correct those and probably see that reflected in your record.

    You're simply not listening. I'm not complaining about the mistakes I've made. if/when i make mistakes that is on me. It's not possible to build "voodoo" into anything. Let's drop that link of thinking.

    What is possible is that there is code added to make gamers more competitive. Or to make things seem more random, or just make things more "fun". However, those specific parts of code depending on the situation lead to a negative response during play, or create artificial situations your player isn't in control of.

    Let's list a few of the things that the player isn't in control of for example:

    1. Picking up the puck after a penalty has been called. You can try, but you aren't in 100% control of if your player touches the puck to get a whistle, or play continues.

    2. The game increasing shot accuracy towards the end of a period. Notice how goals are almost always scored in the final minute of a period? IMO the reason is due to the game making it easier.

    3. defending against a locked on body check. no matter what, your player will react, lose the puck, or just slow down. People use this to defend against breakways.

    4. preventing cached button presses. ever notice you accidentally hit pass twice due to lag or control latency, and this causes you to pass at a time seconds later when you don't expect it? Ever notice how this is inconsistent, and sometimes you seemingly can't pass twice quickly, give me an option to turn this off for everything but one-timers.

    5. The player you are controlling performing an AI action after you grab control. Often things like stick lift, poke, changing direction, or reaching for the puck put you in a bad spot. especially the changing skating direction.

    6. Ai controlled players getting stuck on the back of the net. this happened to me last night and luckily i shot the puck over the glass to get a face off.

    7. The puck moving quickly off your stick when you another player makes contact. Usually resulting in a direct turnover. I can understand this when you get knocked down or separated from the puck, but it happens at times that are unrealistic or inconvenient. this results in ping pong when combined with item #4. This causes players to hit buttons before they have the puck, only each do it repeatedly

    8. Poking at a loose puck twice ( hitting it both times ) and on the second hit, the puck gets knocked towards an opponent. I hate this one, as it sometimes happens due to #4.

    9. Opponent players moving before a face-off has been won. I saw this lots in NHL18 where you watched the replay, one of the opponent players moved the moment the puck left the refs hand.

    I can list more. Everything I listed you can see playing the game. They occur often and affect the outcome of a game.

    I'm pretty sure he is calling your line of thinking "voodoo" as he believes what you are claiming doesn't exist.

    As I am reading through your list, you make it sound like many of the events occur against you. Do some of them work in your favor as well? I'm not arguing that there isn't faulty coding, but to go out and say EA has implemented this code on purpose just doesn't make sense to me.

    Everything you mentioned goes both ways in my opinion. I have been fortunate to have this list benefit me whether I was winning/losing a game. So to say the opposing team has an advantage or is being given a competitive edge because they may be the weaker team is just crazy talk to me. (Note: I don't know if you think this way, but some will argue that your list only goes one way.)

    Well, that's where I disagree with him. There are no magical random things happening here, there's code written to make things happen. All the items I listed does go both ways, but I still dislike the majority of them. They are artificial and that is part of the problem. In that one player comes out feeling something is unfair and they didn't have control over it.

    The more control players have to do things, the less unfair they see it. I'm not against doing things to make the game more fun, but they need to be organic and handled in a way that players shouldn't notice. Most of what I listed is extremely visible and that makes players angry.

    I don't mind losing to a player that is better than me, that gives me the challenge to get better. But when you lose to a player that is a lower rank than yourself, and that is combined with their skill ( which may not explain their rank at the time ) and the game does things to help them or make it easier, it really ruins the gameplay exp. Even worse when they taunt you after.

    So are you saying that EA is determining the outcome of your games? If both teams have the opportunity to do the things you listed, I don't see how there's a competitive advantage one way or another.

    The "voodoo" comes into play if you believe EA codes the game in favor of one team, which in most cases, people are saying the team with less skill. In my experience, this is not true. There is no code that decides win/loss before the game starts. If you truly believe that, you are just in your head. Unless actual evidence comes out saying otherwise, then I will be the first on here to say I'm wrong.

    If you're just upset about the automations that are in the game, then I understand those frustrations. But if you're saying they occur to give your opponent an edge, then I disagree.

  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    The bottom line is this will never be removed and a Dev will never answer a straight question on why certain things happen. The best way to deal with it is play with a weaker team. Complete opposite of the mode which you are supposed to build a great team....I’m using a team of all my preorder cards, a couple of 83-84 cards and 1 legend I pulled the rest including my goalie are 80-81 and I’m playing better than I did early on. I had pulled Crosby, Kucherov, Burns, Doughty, Tavares, and a few other sweet cards in my preorder order packs. and had a couple of real good loaner cards....couldn’t win a game....sold them all and I win 3 out if 4 now. My crappy cards play better than the top players. Lol it’s a joke
  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »

    It's also very tiring hearing about people blaming their losses on some voodoo built in to the game that forces you to lose. Have some accountability for your losses. If you guys spent more time on paying attention to the mistakes you're making, you'd be able to correct those and probably see that reflected in your record.

    You're simply not listening. I'm not complaining about the mistakes I've made. if/when i make mistakes that is on me. It's not possible to build "voodoo" into anything. Let's drop that link of thinking.

    What is possible is that there is code added to make gamers more competitive. Or to make things seem more random, or just make things more "fun". However, those specific parts of code depending on the situation lead to a negative response during play, or create artificial situations your player isn't in control of.

    Let's list a few of the things that the player isn't in control of for example:

    1. Picking up the puck after a penalty has been called. You can try, but you aren't in 100% control of if your player touches the puck to get a whistle, or play continues.

    2. The game increasing shot accuracy towards the end of a period. Notice how goals are almost always scored in the final minute of a period? IMO the reason is due to the game making it easier.

    3. defending against a locked on body check. no matter what, your player will react, lose the puck, or just slow down. People use this to defend against breakways.

    4. preventing cached button presses. ever notice you accidentally hit pass twice due to lag or control latency, and this causes you to pass at a time seconds later when you don't expect it? Ever notice how this is inconsistent, and sometimes you seemingly can't pass twice quickly, give me an option to turn this off for everything but one-timers.

    5. The player you are controlling performing an AI action after you grab control. Often things like stick lift, poke, changing direction, or reaching for the puck put you in a bad spot. especially the changing skating direction.

    6. Ai controlled players getting stuck on the back of the net. this happened to me last night and luckily i shot the puck over the glass to get a face off.

    7. The puck moving quickly off your stick when you another player makes contact. Usually resulting in a direct turnover. I can understand this when you get knocked down or separated from the puck, but it happens at times that are unrealistic or inconvenient. this results in ping pong when combined with item #4. This causes players to hit buttons before they have the puck, only each do it repeatedly

    8. Poking at a loose puck twice ( hitting it both times ) and on the second hit, the puck gets knocked towards an opponent. I hate this one, as it sometimes happens due to #4.

    9. Opponent players moving before a face-off has been won. I saw this lots in NHL18 where you watched the replay, one of the opponent players moved the moment the puck left the refs hand.

    I can list more. Everything I listed you can see playing the game. They occur often and affect the outcome of a game.

    I'm pretty sure he is calling your line of thinking "voodoo" as he believes what you are claiming doesn't exist.

    As I am reading through your list, you make it sound like many of the events occur against you. Do some of them work in your favor as well? I'm not arguing that there isn't faulty coding, but to go out and say EA has implemented this code on purpose just doesn't make sense to me.

    Everything you mentioned goes both ways in my opinion. I have been fortunate to have this list benefit me whether I was winning/losing a game. So to say the opposing team has an advantage or is being given a competitive edge because they may be the weaker team is just crazy talk to me. (Note: I don't know if you think this way, but some will argue that your list only goes one way.)

    Well, that's where I disagree with him. There are no magical random things happening here, there's code written to make things happen. All the items I listed does go both ways, but I still dislike the majority of them. They are artificial and that is part of the problem. In that one player comes out feeling something is unfair and they didn't have control over it.

    The more control players have to do things, the less unfair they see it. I'm not against doing things to make the game more fun, but they need to be organic and handled in a way that players shouldn't notice. Most of what I listed is extremely visible and that makes players angry.

    I don't mind losing to a player that is better than me, that gives me the challenge to get better. But when you lose to a player that is a lower rank than yourself, and that is combined with their skill ( which may not explain their rank at the time ) and the game does things to help them or make it easier, it really ruins the gameplay exp. Even worse when they taunt you after.

    So are you saying that EA is determining the outcome of your games? If both teams have the opportunity to do the things you listed, I don't see how there's a competitive advantage one way or another.

    The "voodoo" comes into play if you believe EA codes the game in favor of one team, which in most cases, people are saying the team with less skill. In my experience, this is not true. There is no code that decides win/loss before the game starts. If you truly believe that, you are just in your head. Unless actual evidence comes out saying otherwise, then I will be the first on here to say I'm wrong.

    If you're just upset about the automations that are in the game, then I understand those frustrations. But if you're saying they occur to give your opponent an edge, then I disagree.

    In 2018 I realized this to a greater extent that there were some games where my passing percentage was capped in certain games, no matter what i did i couldn't get above a certain percentage.

    I didn't say determining the outcome, but IMO they are adjusting things to give one team an advantage in specific areas. The two aren't the same. There's too many factors at play within a game to make it possible to just say team X will beat team Y. However the dynamic difficulty is kicking in for one player to make it more challenging ( imo often too challenging ) for the other. This can manifest itself in a number of ways, and at times can make it near impossible to come out on top.

  • I really wish the default in game tuner for online was full sim ... There is absolutely no excuse or reason why it isn't full sim ... It has to be full sim ... Anything else is too less and unacceptable...

    Competitive implies skill isn't gonna win you games ... As if you are that much more skilled than your opponent, it wouldn't be very competitive now would it ... But if ea does things like change the direction of the puck mid shot ( I have video proof ) to prevent a goal for , so your opponent can compete with you , then there is no real skill gap ...

    Full sim or nothing ea.. let's go.
  • Why are people talking about this "dynamic difficulty" as if it is confirmed to be in the game?

    All of this is nothing more than supposition. It bears no weight.
  • Yeap....just a supposition is all....this guy really deserved to make it to OT

    bu6ofqhlk0uu.png
  • Why are people talking about this "dynamic difficulty" as if it is confirmed to be in the game?

    All of this is nothing more than supposition. It bears no weight.
    Because the “fake” randomness becomes predictable. You know what is going to next happen next and it’s almost always vs someone of lower rank/less skilled, lesser team rating, lower division in hut.
  • Why are people talking about this "dynamic difficulty" as if it is confirmed to be in the game?

    All of this is nothing more than supposition. It bears no weight.

    Well it’s a bit more than that. Nobody made up the term “Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment” it comes directly from EA. You are right that their is no definitive proof that it is in the NHL series but my eyes, experience, and the masses of people experiencing the same thing are enough to convince me. The fact that EA only vaguely addresses these accusations rather than give a definitive explanation to the 5 or 6 specific things so many people experience only furthers the belief. While I understand EA cannot address each and every complaint, question, or inquiry you would think a topic that dominates the forums annually, breeds animosity amongst forum members, sees posts deleted, and threads closed would warrant a few simple answers to put the debate to rest. Until then this topic will never die in fact it seems to be growing.
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