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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

Replies

  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Before some people suggest that many of the things I listed happen in real hockey too and that’s part of the game just understand that the minute you suggest there are ebbs and flows to how the AI plays (just like real hockey)you are acknowledging that something random is happening in online matchups out of the users control.

    This is the part people have a hard time with. If they were to actually roll back the footage and watch just how the play develops, they'd see that it's not some kind of manipulation by the game to keep things close or whatever. You'd see where there was a breakdown in defense or a shot wasn't aimed well enough. You're hitting the post or shooting wide because of your aim and the conditions you're taking the shot under. If the puck went in every time you thought you aimed right, that would be manipulation that was out of your hands. To me, it all comes down to accountability. People can't accept the fact that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are.

    I get what you are saying I really do but you have to understand I’m not talking about missing occasionally. I’m talking about playing 1-2 games where everything feels normal then playing a game where you just feeli it and know something isn’t right.....like playing an entire different release of the game. Then the next game is normal again. (See my post a few posts up) Even if I’m wrong on the shot thing it doesn’t explain everything else.
  • monz
    872 posts Member
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Before some people suggest that many of the things I listed happen in real hockey too and that’s part of the game just understand that the minute you suggest there are ebbs and flows to how the AI plays (just like real hockey)you are acknowledging that something random is happening in online matchups out of the users control.

    This is the part people have a hard time with. If they were to actually roll back the footage and watch just how the play develops, they'd see that it's not some kind of manipulation by the game to keep things close or whatever. You'd see where there was a breakdown in defense or a shot wasn't aimed well enough. You're hitting the post or shooting wide because of your aim and the conditions you're taking the shot under. If the puck went in every time you thought you aimed right, that would be manipulation that was out of your hands. To me, it all comes down to accountability. People can't accept the fact that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are.

    I get what you are saying I really do but you have to understand I’m not talking about missing occasionally. I’m talking about playing 1-2 games where everything feels normal then playing a game where you just feeli it and know something isn’t right.....like playing an entire different release of the game. Then the next game is normal again. (See my post a few posts up) Even if I’m wrong on the shot thing it doesn’t explain everything else.

    Aren't games supposed to feel different, i thought there used to be a ton of "games are all the same" and "games feel scripted" complaints in years back
  • monz wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Before some people suggest that many of the things I listed happen in real hockey too and that’s part of the game just understand that the minute you suggest there are ebbs and flows to how the AI plays (just like real hockey)you are acknowledging that something random is happening in online matchups out of the users control.

    This is the part people have a hard time with. If they were to actually roll back the footage and watch just how the play develops, they'd see that it's not some kind of manipulation by the game to keep things close or whatever. You'd see where there was a breakdown in defense or a shot wasn't aimed well enough. You're hitting the post or shooting wide because of your aim and the conditions you're taking the shot under. If the puck went in every time you thought you aimed right, that would be manipulation that was out of your hands. To me, it all comes down to accountability. People can't accept the fact that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are.

    I get what you are saying I really do but you have to understand I’m not talking about missing occasionally. I’m talking about playing 1-2 games where everything feels normal then playing a game where you just feeli it and know something isn’t right.....like playing an entire different release of the game. Then the next game is normal again. (See my post a few posts up) Even if I’m wrong on the shot thing it doesn’t explain everything else.

    Aren't games supposed to feel different, i thought there used to be a ton of "games are all the same" and "games feel scripted" complaints in years back

    What I mean by different is your how your team plays. AI out of position, Passing way off, fanning on shots, goalie barely moves, puck control out of whack, and the most notable....your team skates in mud.
  • Also very strange is how the better my team build gets the lower the shooting and passing percentage gets. If I consistently pass for 80-85%, take 30+ shots a game, and score 2-7 goals a game with an 82 overall team why do I pass for 72-78%, get only 16-20 shots on goal, and score 0-2 with a 91 overall team. Not to mention I have 4 synergies active. The quality of my opponents is roughly the same as was my ranking which has now gone lower since I improved my team.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    headup81 wrote: »


    Nope. Off the mark again. I think you need to slow the game down and pay attention to the little things.

    Through the years I’ve won 70-80 percent of my games. It’s easy to spot a weak player and when you rematch someone when you have one these games the second game tends to be a blowout. What changes game by game is players accountability.

    Yeah. That's what I said. People don't have accountability. It seems we're in agreement so not sure why you say I'm off the mark. Just because you're better than someone else, it doesn't guarantee a win. The second time around that person knows how you play and can adjust how they play as well as their strategies to make a difference. So many just do the same thing over and over again and expect it to work every time. Then blame the game when it doesn't. The lack of accountability is the problem here.
  • jake19ny wrote: »
    monz wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Before some people suggest that many of the things I listed happen in real hockey too and that’s part of the game just understand that the minute you suggest there are ebbs and flows to how the AI plays (just like real hockey)you are acknowledging that something random is happening in online matchups out of the users control.

    This is the part people have a hard time with. If they were to actually roll back the footage and watch just how the play develops, they'd see that it's not some kind of manipulation by the game to keep things close or whatever. You'd see where there was a breakdown in defense or a shot wasn't aimed well enough. You're hitting the post or shooting wide because of your aim and the conditions you're taking the shot under. If the puck went in every time you thought you aimed right, that would be manipulation that was out of your hands. To me, it all comes down to accountability. People can't accept the fact that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are.

    I get what you are saying I really do but you have to understand I’m not talking about missing occasionally. I’m talking about playing 1-2 games where everything feels normal then playing a game where you just feeli it and know something isn’t right.....like playing an entire different release of the game. Then the next game is normal again. (See my post a few posts up) Even if I’m wrong on the shot thing it doesn’t explain everything else.

    Aren't games supposed to feel different, i thought there used to be a ton of "games are all the same" and "games feel scripted" complaints in years back

    What I mean by different is your how your team plays. AI out of position, Passing way off, fanning on shots, goalie barely moves, puck control out of whack, and the most notable....your team skates in mud.

    That is what you call a crappy connection. Has nothing to do with the gaming messing around to make you lose.
  • The lack of accountability is the problem here.

    With all due respect. You have by your remarks never experienced MUD or at least never acknowledge it as such, so you are really not knowing what you are talking about regarding our complaints. It is very strange to have a discussion with people who deny something just because they lack understanding about the issue.

    I´m interested in talking to EA about this and i don´t really care about your opinion because i know the game often handicaps one team for some reason. You believe we are wrong and you are free to have your opinion but maybe you should start a thread about that instead since I´m not interested in convincing you which i suspect is impossible anyway.

    And i also wonder what your stake is in all of this?
  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    jake19ny wrote: »
    monz wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Before some people suggest that many of the things I listed happen in real hockey too and that’s part of the game just understand that the minute you suggest there are ebbs and flows to how the AI plays (just like real hockey)you are acknowledging that something random is happening in online matchups out of the users control.

    This is the part people have a hard time with. If they were to actually roll back the footage and watch just how the play develops, they'd see that it's not some kind of manipulation by the game to keep things close or whatever. You'd see where there was a breakdown in defense or a shot wasn't aimed well enough. You're hitting the post or shooting wide because of your aim and the conditions you're taking the shot under. If the puck went in every time you thought you aimed right, that would be manipulation that was out of your hands. To me, it all comes down to accountability. People can't accept the fact that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are.

    I get what you are saying I really do but you have to understand I’m not talking about missing occasionally. I’m talking about playing 1-2 games where everything feels normal then playing a game where you just feeli it and know something isn’t right.....like playing an entire different release of the game. Then the next game is normal again. (See my post a few posts up) Even if I’m wrong on the shot thing it doesn’t explain everything else.

    Aren't games supposed to feel different, i thought there used to be a ton of "games are all the same" and "games feel scripted" complaints in years back

    What I mean by different is your how your team plays. AI out of position, Passing way off, fanning on shots, goalie barely moves, puck control out of whack, and the most notable....your team skates in mud.

    That is what you call a crappy connection. Has nothing to do with the gaming messing around to make you lose.

    Oh I agree....it has to be the P2P connection....and while the Dev explained how a bad connection doesn’t affect the AI I really have trouble understanding how a bad connection only affects the controlled player. If it’s not the connection causing poor AI play then what is? Having your AI randomly play good or bad isn’t DDA but in a roundabout way it is having the CPU influence gameplay....I’m sticking with the connection being the culprit.

    Great example; my last game I was matched against a guy who’s only gold players were Getzlaf, Terashenko, and common gold Niemi in net. The rest were silver and bronze. I have a 91 overall team. Yes I dominated him but his AI goalie was superhuman for a common Gold. I out shot him 52-3 I can’t bekieve he didn’t quit. Final score 5-1. Yep he scored 1 goal on 3 shots but while I spent much of the time in his end controlling play and setting up great scoring chance after scoring chance Niemi made highlight reel save after highlight reel save. How does the AI decide who’s and what goalie will be lights out and who will give up 1 or 2 goals on 3 shots? I understand we don’t every game to play out the same but ratings have to mean something when it comes to the AI play otherwise it’s alljust random and defeats the purpose of the mode.
  • I’m sticking with the connection being the culprit.

    Just a warning in that case. Don´t try to upgrade your internet or anything because it will mean nothing. There are so many reports from people who have tried everything to fix their "crappy connection" but I have yet to see one who claimed it fixed MUD.
  • jake19ny wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    monz wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    Before some people suggest that many of the things I listed happen in real hockey too and that’s part of the game just understand that the minute you suggest there are ebbs and flows to how the AI plays (just like real hockey)you are acknowledging that something random is happening in online matchups out of the users control.

    This is the part people have a hard time with. If they were to actually roll back the footage and watch just how the play develops, they'd see that it's not some kind of manipulation by the game to keep things close or whatever. You'd see where there was a breakdown in defense or a shot wasn't aimed well enough. You're hitting the post or shooting wide because of your aim and the conditions you're taking the shot under. If the puck went in every time you thought you aimed right, that would be manipulation that was out of your hands. To me, it all comes down to accountability. People can't accept the fact that they aren't as good at this game as they think they are.

    I get what you are saying I really do but you have to understand I’m not talking about missing occasionally. I’m talking about playing 1-2 games where everything feels normal then playing a game where you just feeli it and know something isn’t right.....like playing an entire different release of the game. Then the next game is normal again. (See my post a few posts up) Even if I’m wrong on the shot thing it doesn’t explain everything else.

    Aren't games supposed to feel different, i thought there used to be a ton of "games are all the same" and "games feel scripted" complaints in years back

    What I mean by different is your how your team plays. AI out of position, Passing way off, fanning on shots, goalie barely moves, puck control out of whack, and the most notable....your team skates in mud.

    That is what you call a crappy connection. Has nothing to do with the gaming messing around to make you lose.

    Oh I agree....it has to be the P2P connection....and while the Dev explained how a bad connection doesn’t affect the AI I really have trouble understanding how a bad connection only affects the controlled player. If it’s not the connection causing poor AI play then what is? Having your AI randomly play good or bad isn’t DDA but in a roundabout way it is having the CPU influence gameplay....I’m sticking with the connection being the culprit.

    Great example; my last game I was matched against a guy who’s only gold players were Getzlaf, Terashenko, and common gold Niemi in net. The rest were silver and bronze. I have a 91 overall team. Yes I dominated him but his AI goalie was superhuman for a common Gold. I out shot him 52-3 I can’t bekieve he didn’t quit. Final score 5-1. Yep he scored 1 goal on 3 shots but while I spent much of the time in his end controlling play and setting up great scoring chance after scoring chance Niemi made highlight reel save after highlight reel save. How does the AI decide who’s and what goalie will be lights out and who will give up 1 or 2 goals on 3 shots? I understand we don’t every game to play out the same but ratings have to mean something when it comes to the AI play otherwise it’s alljust random and defeats the purpose of the mode.

    Yea I know exactly what you mean. But the weird thing is, when a game feels weird, and it feels off, it is the entirety of the game. You can tell in the first 30 seconds. That is why I very highly doubt it has anything to do with DDA. If it were say just the goalie making these incredible saves out of the blue, or all of a sudden D is impenetrable, then maybe it would be a possibility. When it is the whole game, and everything feels off, I really do think it is connection related.
  • It's not the quality of our personal internet speeds or equipment that are the problem with this game. As you pointed out, and I am one of them, over the years of suffering latency/input delay playing this game (and when I say this game I mean I only have this issue with hockey). I've had my cable company dig up and install new cable from post to my house, new cables in house as well, had a network specialist redesign our entertainment equipment using the most efficient routing and connections (no waste), bought top of the line router, top of the line modem, tried numerous router settings such as DMZ, Qos priorities, port forwarding, static IP's, clearing cache, power cycles, 100+ Mpbs speed internet service, wired (not wireless), not to mention countless hours on the phone with internet provider trying to tweak and maximize our speeds, etc.

    Everything has been done and tried, its not our equipment or internet.

    What it is, a combination of EA issues, such as lack of servers (there are only like 4 servers on the planet that run NHL), and they keep the server capacity low on top of it (to save cost) so there are not enough servers and the servers they do have are always bottle necked with high traffic since there isn't much room on the servers dedicated to NHL, so there are great distances based on your location the data has to travel to the servers, outdated net code (as NHL budget is small they haven't done much in this area), as the inefficient route based on your location your data has to hop from and to can sometimes take 20+ hops, etc.

    Its all EA, nothing gets better because NHL is such a small niche game it is not cost effective to upgrade these issues to please the small crowd of NHL gamers especially when these issues only affect half of us, the other half are fortunate to get good connections, so when you take an already small community of gamers and cut that in half to represent those who have issues, that even smaller group is not worth spending the millions to fix the problem is EA's obvious stance on this issue as proof is in the pudding which is lack of action over 10 years of complaints.
  • What it is, a combination of EA issues, such as lack of servers (there are only like 4 servers on the planet that run NHL), and they keep the server capacity low on top of it (to save cost) so there are not enough servers and the servers they do have are always bottle necked with high traffic since there isn't much room on the servers dedicated to NHL, so there are great distances based on your location the data has to travel to the servers, outdated net code (as NHL budget is small they haven't done much in this area), as the inefficient route based on your location your data has to hop from and to can sometimes take 20+ hops, etc.
    Its all EA, nothing gets better because NHL is such a small niche game it is not cost effective to upgrade these issues to please the small crowd of NHL gamers especially when these issues only affect half of us, the other half are fortunate to get good connections, so when you take an already small community of gamers and cut that in half to represent those who have issues, that even smaller group is not worth spending the millions to fix the problem is EA's obvious stance on this issue as proof is in the pudding which is lack of action over 10 years of complaints.

    I have had the same thoughts and it sounds right. But there are some things that do not support this theory.
    1. How come do I have an online issue for several days in a row in every single game and my opponents do not?
    2. How come do i have the exact same gameplay doing challenges where only 4 TCP packages are sent back and forth to EA servers every 30 seconds?
    3. It´s P2P. In an online game, there are going 4 TCP packages back and forth to the EA servers every 10 seconds. The UDP traffic goes back and forth to my opponent. I Cannot possibly believe that high load on the servers should affect the gameplay and especially not only me in every single game.

    It could be bad Lag compensation logic but still, there is the fact that my team skating in mud in challenges exactly like online.
  • The only thing you can do while having MUD is to play ultra defensive. As soon as you lose the puck you switch to last man back. Don´t ever force anything defensively, just stay passive between the puck and the net. 1-3-1 trap all sliders defensive. When you get the puck, just shoot it whenever there is a chance to hit the net and immediately switch to the last man back.

    Sounds fun right! it´s disgusting to win like this but you have no choice. Winning but complaining.... I´m a weird dude.
  • Sinbin I'm curious as to what is your record typically?
  • All we need to prove this is have someone track the network connection during a game, and also track the latency on the control input. I'm willing to bet, that network latency doesn't change, but the control input latency does depending what occurs in the game and what the players rank is.
  • Just played a game in the Christmas season where only one player can be over 80. So every team is virtually the same. In this particular game all my opponent had to do was barely brush my guys and they would lose control of the puck but when I made contact with him, even solid lined up hits my guys just bounced off and he maintained control of the puck. These are the insanely obvious things that happen occasionally that are not skill gap related, not, subjective in anyway, and I’m not sure how it could be connection related.....what the hell man...
  • And speaking of the 2 different seasons.....I would love to know how I can pass light years better, smoother, and with greater precision with my 80 overall team than I can with my 92 overall team. The bettermy team the more disgustingly innacurate passing becomes.
  • Played a game yesterday against an opponent with a losing record that really was a bad player but his AI did it all for him. It was like playing against superstar AI and I guess I'm supposed to adjust my gameplay in those handicap games to play super defensive and look at it as a fun challenge. But I can´t enjoy handicap in a competitive mode and just quit those games now. For me, the handicapping totally sucks the fun out of the game.

    Even the offline challenges are sick. Played the other day a challenge for Ristolainen with a team +90 OVR where I should win 65% of the faceoffs. Sakic, Sittler, Nieuwendyk and Roenick together won 3 out of 10 faceoffs while doing the right counter the whole game. Next try i think they lost one faceoff the whole game.

    EA cannot deny that DDA exists in offline challenges because it does. And either it exists on purpose or by unpurpose in online games because what I´m playing against is opponents with various AI aid and various performance by my team.
  • headup81
    99 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    jake19ny wrote: »
    And speaking of the 2 different seasons.....I would love to know how I can pass light years better, smoother, and with greater precision with my 80 overall team than I can with my 92 overall team. The bettermy team the more disgustingly innacurate passing becomes.
    It’s easy Jake, DDA is the answer. We don’t argue about it in Mario Kart and we shouldn’t in NHL either. It is purely programming errors. Play threes. Threes is an over the top testament to the fact that dda is possible and a showcase of what they can do far end of DDA.

    {EA_Lanna: Edit to remove bait from post}
    Post edited by EA_Lanna on
  • xPDogg65x
    682 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    I’m sticking with the connection being the culprit.

    Just a warning in that case. Don´t try to upgrade your internet or anything because it will mean nothing. There are so many reports from people who have tried everything to fix their "crappy connection" but I have yet to see one who claimed it fixed MUD.

    That is because it is not all about your connection, it is also your opponents connection. I played a friend last year through the first period there was no lag at all for either of us. During the first intermission I turned on Netflix on my laptop and my iPad. At the start of the second my opponent was instantly complaining about bad lag while mine was negligible. In the second intermission I shut Netflix down and all the lag went away.
    I am sorry but I do not believe for one second that you are getting fat man lag playing offline challenges.
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