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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

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  • KidShowtime1867
    1449 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    My question is why would i have a higher chance of a "win streak"

    You're playing lower ranked opponents.....
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    and what exactly are the factors involved in that happening.

    Lower ranked opponents are less skilled overall than you - presumably. This would mean a higher chance of winning.
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Regardless of that, there are still many elements in the games I think players should be in control of, which prevents the feeling of battling the game instead, of battling better players.

    I'm not even sure what to make of this. Are you saying you shouldn't be battling better players than you?

  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?

    Well first of all, it doesn't matter if they are more " highly skilled " as this game doesn't cater to skilled players, it caters more to casuals.

    Second, you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no, I said the AI helps the lower ranked player more. Makes it easier for them to score, or gain turnovers, or just flat out makes play more difficult for the player dominating to beat the opposing goalie.

    Let me recap what i said so you won't keep jumping to conclusions. I said, too often the team that dominates the game has trouble winning, or takes a loss no matter what they are doing. The term scripted means nothing to me. EA has code that changes the way the game works based on certain parameters or conditions. Things like:
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Is an EA employee going to come out and say, none of the above items I listed are true?

    There's things that go beyond this, like the AI chasing down players and attempting to steal a puck when the user is a lower rank ( it occurs wayyyy more often ), or simply increasing the chance of intercepting a puck. What about capping passing percentage for a team. I've had games where I had a passing percentage in the 60's after the first period, and it stayed on that number for the entire game. That itself is odd.

    All of these and other things are somewhat out of a players control, and that is my problem with this game. This is why people feel cheated or think certain games are an automatic loss. Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    If you want to say this is "scripting" be my guest. However, I'm sure you will ignore those items that clearly happen, and say I and all others that purchase this game each year are seeing things that aren't there, or just need to play harder. You clearly don't play the game enough imo.

    [Removed call out]

    I would say I play this game enough. Some would say too much. I'm not even that good at this game. That's the difference between us. I'm accountable for my play. When I see why I get scored on or why I miss the net or why the things happen you mentioned, I can tell it's due to my own play. We've all had frustrating games we should have won. We've all had games we should have lost. Just like there have been real world upsets. However, I don't blame the game. I look at my own play and I find where I can improve. Sometimes I do, sometimes I repeat mistakes. Old habits can be tough to break. That's fine. I still have fun and that's what it's all about for me.

    So, prove to me what you say exists. Next time you start a game that has obvious DDA, put down your controller and let it play out. If it exists, your inputs don't matter and the game will take over. If you're saying that the computer picks and chooses when it happens, that sounds like confirmation bias. It also sounds like RNG which is also part of the game and very largely dependent on your own skill. The higher your skill, the lower the margin of error, the better the RNG.

    I think you are assuming you know me when you really don't. I probably do play this game more then yourself, as I've been playing for years ( all the way back to 1992 ). Here's a little background on where I'm coming from. I've also worked on some sports game pitches and reviewed sports game designs (I worked in the game industry for 20 years). I also worked with quite a few people that were involved with the NHL series years back (Not to mention NBA live before the revamp, MLB & Fifa games all from EA). In fact I still know some people working at EA.

    I'd argue I'm more accountable for my play then you are, as I have no problem with getting beat by playing bad defense and being outplayed by someone better, its what drives me to want to play the game more. The challenge of trying to beat someone better then myself, I find nothing more enjoyable. What I have a problem with (and other players posting here) are finding, is we are sometimes not getting beat by better players, we're getting beat by the game itself. I'm assuming with the purpose of making things easier for casuals or driving up retention is why things are the way they currently sit. Something is not right when I have a harder time scoring against low ranked players, then i do players above me in CR.

    I see you didn't pay any attention to the items i listed above. Ignore for a second about a single system like DDA controlling these factors. You have to admit the items i listed above do exist, and do impact what happens in a game, and lastly are not in the control of either player, correct? Otherwise, explain to me how i can cleanly win a faceoff without touching the controller? That does & can happen, and there must be a reason for it. I'd be really surprised if you haven't seen this happen.

    Yeah, I've seen that happen with faceoffs. I don't know why it happens. I imagine there's a good explanation for it. I'm not going to make one up. I'll wait to hear what the devs say instead of assuming.

    If you want to believe the game takes over chooses when you win and lose, that's up to you. I don't get why you'd even play a game that operated that way. There's tons of proof it doesn't work like this. Just look at the leaderboards. Why are there so many people with outstanding records? That's not their skill? That's the computer deciding they need to win so it just scripts them all in their favor?

    I think you're putting too much stock in CR. I've seen guys with low CRs play better than it indicates. You yourself seem to think you're an elite player. So, if you just picked up the game today and had a low CR, does that mean the game thinks you're bad and is going to give you wins you don't deserve?
  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Can't say I like the tone of your defensive posts. I'll still reply but note, I'm not smiling.
    If you only give up 4 scoring chances, but those scoring chances are absolute beauties - the ratio of goals:chances doesn't matter. You have no context of these 'chances' either. You assume OP is telling the truth and that EA is lying at every turn.

    Those were nothing chance, unscreened slap shot from the point. toss the puck at the net a few times, and somehow my goalie wasn't able to make a save. Don't tell me I have no context of anything, you don't know how much I've played EA hockey games. btw the OP was ME.
    The goalie reaction on this is definitely a bug. However, It's very telling when a puck is dumped in to your zone and the opponent already has a player between the goalie and his teammates.

    Not my fault the AI had my players skating out of the zone. So you admit its a bug, what other things will you admit should not happen? It shouldn't have produced a rebound the way it did. If your answer is to blame the player for everything, you won't get far around here.
    Videos of this?
    No.
    Video? Typically this is because of a screened shot - something that is lost on a lot of people around here.
    No again. Do you seriously think I record a video of every goal against? You see this if you play the game enough. Shots where the goalie doesn't move at all to the left or right, to get in front of a puck. un-screened.

    How? How is it CLEARLY because of a competitive rating? What evidence do you have to prove that?

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?
    Unless we have video of this exact scenario, it's just as safe to assume you have a deficiency in your game as it is to assume DDA exists.

    I think it's safer to assume I'm going to ignore foolish comments like that.

    Having 4 goals on 4 shots doesn't equal assist, lol. If you believe that, well, not sure what to tell ya. Some people can shoot extremely accurately when given prime scoring chances. Certain areas, if you let me get there, you're gonna get scored on.

  • Some people can shoot extremely accurately when given prime scoring chances. Certain areas, if you let me get there, you're gonna get scored on.

    Exactly. Bingo.

    But some users on this forum downright refuse to believe that there's a large population of people simply better at getting these chances than them.
  • Some people can shoot extremely accurately when given prime scoring chances. Certain areas, if you let me get there, you're gonna get scored on.

    Exactly. Bingo.

    But some users on this forum downright refuse to believe that there's a large population of people simply better at getting these chances than them.

    And it's not even the location per se. It's user input on the sticks. Not everyone can take perfect shots, or more precisely, enter perfect control inputs. Same exact shot location by 2 people, one an expert with shooting mechanics, the other, thinks flicking up is all that's required. Guarantee the skilled shooter gets far better results, regardless of player rating, or goalie in net.
  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?

    Well first of all, it doesn't matter if they are more " highly skilled " as this game doesn't cater to skilled players, it caters more to casuals.

    Second, you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no, I said the AI helps the lower ranked player more. Makes it easier for them to score, or gain turnovers, or just flat out makes play more difficult for the player dominating to beat the opposing goalie.

    Let me recap what i said so you won't keep jumping to conclusions. I said, too often the team that dominates the game has trouble winning, or takes a loss no matter what they are doing. The term scripted means nothing to me. EA has code that changes the way the game works based on certain parameters or conditions. Things like:
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Is an EA employee going to come out and say, none of the above items I listed are true?

    There's things that go beyond this, like the AI chasing down players and attempting to steal a puck when the user is a lower rank ( it occurs wayyyy more often ), or simply increasing the chance of intercepting a puck. What about capping passing percentage for a team. I've had games where I had a passing percentage in the 60's after the first period, and it stayed on that number for the entire game. That itself is odd.

    All of these and other things are somewhat out of a players control, and that is my problem with this game. This is why people feel cheated or think certain games are an automatic loss. Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    If you want to say this is "scripting" be my guest. However, I'm sure you will ignore those items that clearly happen, and say I and all others that purchase this game each year are seeing things that aren't there, or just need to play harder. You clearly don't play the game enough imo.

    [Removed call out]

    I would say I play this game enough. Some would say too much. I'm not even that good at this game. That's the difference between us. I'm accountable for my play. When I see why I get scored on or why I miss the net or why the things happen you mentioned, I can tell it's due to my own play. We've all had frustrating games we should have won. We've all had games we should have lost. Just like there have been real world upsets. However, I don't blame the game. I look at my own play and I find where I can improve. Sometimes I do, sometimes I repeat mistakes. Old habits can be tough to break. That's fine. I still have fun and that's what it's all about for me.

    So, prove to me what you say exists. Next time you start a game that has obvious DDA, put down your controller and let it play out. If it exists, your inputs don't matter and the game will take over. If you're saying that the computer picks and chooses when it happens, that sounds like confirmation bias. It also sounds like RNG which is also part of the game and very largely dependent on your own skill. The higher your skill, the lower the margin of error, the better the RNG.

    I think you are assuming you know me when you really don't. I probably do play this game more then yourself, as I've been playing for years ( all the way back to 1992 ). Here's a little background on where I'm coming from. I've also worked on some sports game pitches and reviewed sports game designs (I worked in the game industry for 20 years). I also worked with quite a few people that were involved with the NHL series years back (Not to mention NBA live before the revamp, MLB & Fifa games all from EA). In fact I still know some people working at EA.

    I'd argue I'm more accountable for my play then you are, as I have no problem with getting beat by playing bad defense and being outplayed by someone better, its what drives me to want to play the game more. The challenge of trying to beat someone better then myself, I find nothing more enjoyable. What I have a problem with (and other players posting here) are finding, is we are sometimes not getting beat by better players, we're getting beat by the game itself. I'm assuming with the purpose of making things easier for casuals or driving up retention is why things are the way they currently sit. Something is not right when I have a harder time scoring against low ranked players, then i do players above me in CR.

    I see you didn't pay any attention to the items i listed above. Ignore for a second about a single system like DDA controlling these factors. You have to admit the items i listed above do exist, and do impact what happens in a game, and lastly are not in the control of either player, correct? Otherwise, explain to me how i can cleanly win a faceoff without touching the controller? That does & can happen, and there must be a reason for it. I'd be really surprised if you haven't seen this happen.

    Yeah, I've seen that happen with faceoffs. I don't know why it happens. I imagine there's a good explanation for it. I'm not going to make one up. I'll wait to hear what the devs say instead of assuming.

    If you want to believe the game takes over chooses when you win and lose, that's up to you. I don't get why you'd even play a game that operated that way. There's tons of proof it doesn't work like this. Just look at the leaderboards. Why are there so many people with outstanding records? That's not their skill? That's the computer deciding they need to win so it just scripts them all in their favor?

    I think you're putting too much stock in CR. I've seen guys with low CRs play better than it indicates. You yourself seem to think you're an elite player. So, if you just picked up the game today and had a low CR, does that mean the game thinks you're bad and is going to give you wins you don't deserve?

    So if that happens with faceoffs, what else does it happen with? Realistically it should never happen. There's also the other items I've seen where its not fully in the players control
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Some of these are harder to quantify. The exception being the poke check of loose pucks.

    I'm not saying the game takes over and forces a loss, I'm saying it ramps up various factors to make it more difficult/challenging ( which is essentially what DDA is). Exception being this tends to happen for one player and not the other. Those factors might result in a loss, or make it near impossible to get the win. IMO there's zero "proof" this isn't happening, and more proof posted online by hundreds, if not thousands of different people regarding the same issues across multiple EA sports titles. People were posting about oddness before Fifa PC info was released, or they noticed the infamous patent.

    You mentioned before about confirmation bias, but I find that argument disingenuous. not a single person that purchase this game, expected it to work this way. Saying we're biased just isn't a good argument. I've said before, that I've seen the same factors when i win that work in my favor, this isn't only about when I lose games.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1449 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Same exact shot location by 2 people, one an expert with shooting mechanics, the other, thinks flicking up is all that's required. Guarantee the skilled shooter gets far better results, regardless of player rating, or goalie in net.

    Exactly!

    Those who think ice tilt exist believe the same shot taken by the same player at the same spot should have the exact same result - despite who is controlling the player.

    That is a fundamental misunderstanding of the core mechanics of this game.
  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Can't say I like the tone of your defensive posts. I'll still reply but note, I'm not smiling.
    If you only give up 4 scoring chances, but those scoring chances are absolute beauties - the ratio of goals:chances doesn't matter. You have no context of these 'chances' either. You assume OP is telling the truth and that EA is lying at every turn.

    Those were nothing chance, unscreened slap shot from the point. toss the puck at the net a few times, and somehow my goalie wasn't able to make a save. Don't tell me I have no context of anything, you don't know how much I've played EA hockey games. btw the OP was ME.
    The goalie reaction on this is definitely a bug. However, It's very telling when a puck is dumped in to your zone and the opponent already has a player between the goalie and his teammates.

    Not my fault the AI had my players skating out of the zone. So you admit its a bug, what other things will you admit should not happen? It shouldn't have produced a rebound the way it did. If your answer is to blame the player for everything, you won't get far around here.
    Videos of this?
    No.
    Video? Typically this is because of a screened shot - something that is lost on a lot of people around here.
    No again. Do you seriously think I record a video of every goal against? You see this if you play the game enough. Shots where the goalie doesn't move at all to the left or right, to get in front of a puck. un-screened.

    How? How is it CLEARLY because of a competitive rating? What evidence do you have to prove that?

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?
    Unless we have video of this exact scenario, it's just as safe to assume you have a deficiency in your game as it is to assume DDA exists.

    I think it's safer to assume I'm going to ignore foolish comments like that.

    Having 4 goals on 4 shots doesn't equal assist, lol. If you believe that, well, not sure what to tell ya. Some people can shoot extremely accurately when given prime scoring chances. Certain areas, if you let me get there, you're gonna get scored on.

    Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen. Should happen in the video game as well. You can also tell if the player is good enough to snipe shots or just randomly throws it at the net and your goalie makes a weak attempt at a save. There's a noticeable difference to getting into high scoring areas versus low scoring areas.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1449 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen.

    But you are implying that it can't happen.

    It most certainly can happen.
  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen.

    But you are implying that it can't happen.

    It most certainly can happen.

    What I'm saying is it "shouldn't" happen. I don't care how good the players are, there's a reason it doesn't happen in real life. what about 100% passing? that also shouldn't happen.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?

    Well first of all, it doesn't matter if they are more " highly skilled " as this game doesn't cater to skilled players, it caters more to casuals.

    Second, you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no, I said the AI helps the lower ranked player more. Makes it easier for them to score, or gain turnovers, or just flat out makes play more difficult for the player dominating to beat the opposing goalie.

    Let me recap what i said so you won't keep jumping to conclusions. I said, too often the team that dominates the game has trouble winning, or takes a loss no matter what they are doing. The term scripted means nothing to me. EA has code that changes the way the game works based on certain parameters or conditions. Things like:
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Is an EA employee going to come out and say, none of the above items I listed are true?

    There's things that go beyond this, like the AI chasing down players and attempting to steal a puck when the user is a lower rank ( it occurs wayyyy more often ), or simply increasing the chance of intercepting a puck. What about capping passing percentage for a team. I've had games where I had a passing percentage in the 60's after the first period, and it stayed on that number for the entire game. That itself is odd.

    All of these and other things are somewhat out of a players control, and that is my problem with this game. This is why people feel cheated or think certain games are an automatic loss. Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    If you want to say this is "scripting" be my guest. However, I'm sure you will ignore those items that clearly happen, and say I and all others that purchase this game each year are seeing things that aren't there, or just need to play harder. You clearly don't play the game enough imo.

    [Removed call out]

    I would say I play this game enough. Some would say too much. I'm not even that good at this game. That's the difference between us. I'm accountable for my play. When I see why I get scored on or why I miss the net or why the things happen you mentioned, I can tell it's due to my own play. We've all had frustrating games we should have won. We've all had games we should have lost. Just like there have been real world upsets. However, I don't blame the game. I look at my own play and I find where I can improve. Sometimes I do, sometimes I repeat mistakes. Old habits can be tough to break. That's fine. I still have fun and that's what it's all about for me.

    So, prove to me what you say exists. Next time you start a game that has obvious DDA, put down your controller and let it play out. If it exists, your inputs don't matter and the game will take over. If you're saying that the computer picks and chooses when it happens, that sounds like confirmation bias. It also sounds like RNG which is also part of the game and very largely dependent on your own skill. The higher your skill, the lower the margin of error, the better the RNG.

    I think you are assuming you know me when you really don't. I probably do play this game more then yourself, as I've been playing for years ( all the way back to 1992 ). Here's a little background on where I'm coming from. I've also worked on some sports game pitches and reviewed sports game designs (I worked in the game industry for 20 years). I also worked with quite a few people that were involved with the NHL series years back (Not to mention NBA live before the revamp, MLB & Fifa games all from EA). In fact I still know some people working at EA.

    I'd argue I'm more accountable for my play then you are, as I have no problem with getting beat by playing bad defense and being outplayed by someone better, its what drives me to want to play the game more. The challenge of trying to beat someone better then myself, I find nothing more enjoyable. What I have a problem with (and other players posting here) are finding, is we are sometimes not getting beat by better players, we're getting beat by the game itself. I'm assuming with the purpose of making things easier for casuals or driving up retention is why things are the way they currently sit. Something is not right when I have a harder time scoring against low ranked players, then i do players above me in CR.

    I see you didn't pay any attention to the items i listed above. Ignore for a second about a single system like DDA controlling these factors. You have to admit the items i listed above do exist, and do impact what happens in a game, and lastly are not in the control of either player, correct? Otherwise, explain to me how i can cleanly win a faceoff without touching the controller? That does & can happen, and there must be a reason for it. I'd be really surprised if you haven't seen this happen.

    Yeah, I've seen that happen with faceoffs. I don't know why it happens. I imagine there's a good explanation for it. I'm not going to make one up. I'll wait to hear what the devs say instead of assuming.

    If you want to believe the game takes over chooses when you win and lose, that's up to you. I don't get why you'd even play a game that operated that way. There's tons of proof it doesn't work like this. Just look at the leaderboards. Why are there so many people with outstanding records? That's not their skill? That's the computer deciding they need to win so it just scripts them all in their favor?

    I think you're putting too much stock in CR. I've seen guys with low CRs play better than it indicates. You yourself seem to think you're an elite player. So, if you just picked up the game today and had a low CR, does that mean the game thinks you're bad and is going to give you wins you don't deserve?

    So if that happens with faceoffs, what else does it happen with? Realistically it should never happen. There's also the other items I've seen where its not fully in the players control
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Some of these are harder to quantify. The exception being the poke check of loose pucks.

    I'm not saying the game takes over and forces a loss, I'm saying it ramps up various factors to make it more difficult/challenging ( which is essentially what DDA is). Exception being this tends to happen for one player and not the other. Those factors might result in a loss, or make it near impossible to get the win. IMO there's zero "proof" this isn't happening, and more proof posted online by hundreds, if not thousands of different people regarding the same issues across multiple EA sports titles. People were posting about oddness before Fifa PC info was released, or they noticed the infamous patent.

    You mentioned before about confirmation bias, but I find that argument disingenuous. not a single person that purchase this game, expected it to work this way. Saying we're biased just isn't a good argument. I've said before, that I've seen the same factors when i win that work in my favor, this isn't only about when I lose games.

    Everything in your list is completely circumstantial. There is no proof whatsoever that it happens more in those situations than others. Continue to believe in it if you want. So long as you do, you'll never improve your game because you'll continually think nothing is your fault and the game has it out for you. You'd think if the game actually could read minds, it would be more advanced.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1449 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen.

    But you are implying that it can't happen.

    It most certainly can happen.

    What I'm saying is it "shouldn't" happen. I don't care how good the players are, there's a reason it doesn't happen in real life. what about 100% passing? that also shouldn't happen.

    So, if a player gets 4 wide open nets or 4 wide open passes due to misplays by the goalie or the defence, you want the game to artificially STOP those goals/passes from succeeding, just because it would result in a shooting/passing percentage of 100%?
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?

    So, if someone is clearly more highly skilled than you and you win, the computer scripted the outcome? It didn't matter what buttons you pressed, the result was already determined? The computer took control and won the game for you because it thought you were going to quit playing if you lost?

    Well first of all, it doesn't matter if they are more " highly skilled " as this game doesn't cater to skilled players, it caters more to casuals.

    Second, you seem intent on putting words in the mouths of people you argue with. Did i say it was "scripted"? no, I said the AI helps the lower ranked player more. Makes it easier for them to score, or gain turnovers, or just flat out makes play more difficult for the player dominating to beat the opposing goalie.

    Let me recap what i said so you won't keep jumping to conclusions. I said, too often the team that dominates the game has trouble winning, or takes a loss no matter what they are doing. The term scripted means nothing to me. EA has code that changes the way the game works based on certain parameters or conditions. Things like:
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Is an EA employee going to come out and say, none of the above items I listed are true?

    There's things that go beyond this, like the AI chasing down players and attempting to steal a puck when the user is a lower rank ( it occurs wayyyy more often ), or simply increasing the chance of intercepting a puck. What about capping passing percentage for a team. I've had games where I had a passing percentage in the 60's after the first period, and it stayed on that number for the entire game. That itself is odd.

    All of these and other things are somewhat out of a players control, and that is my problem with this game. This is why people feel cheated or think certain games are an automatic loss. Even on the first page EA dev alluded that I should have had some wins after a losing streak. Why is that?

    If you want to say this is "scripting" be my guest. However, I'm sure you will ignore those items that clearly happen, and say I and all others that purchase this game each year are seeing things that aren't there, or just need to play harder. You clearly don't play the game enough imo.

    [Removed call out]

    I would say I play this game enough. Some would say too much. I'm not even that good at this game. That's the difference between us. I'm accountable for my play. When I see why I get scored on or why I miss the net or why the things happen you mentioned, I can tell it's due to my own play. We've all had frustrating games we should have won. We've all had games we should have lost. Just like there have been real world upsets. However, I don't blame the game. I look at my own play and I find where I can improve. Sometimes I do, sometimes I repeat mistakes. Old habits can be tough to break. That's fine. I still have fun and that's what it's all about for me.

    So, prove to me what you say exists. Next time you start a game that has obvious DDA, put down your controller and let it play out. If it exists, your inputs don't matter and the game will take over. If you're saying that the computer picks and chooses when it happens, that sounds like confirmation bias. It also sounds like RNG which is also part of the game and very largely dependent on your own skill. The higher your skill, the lower the margin of error, the better the RNG.

    I think you are assuming you know me when you really don't. I probably do play this game more then yourself, as I've been playing for years ( all the way back to 1992 ). Here's a little background on where I'm coming from. I've also worked on some sports game pitches and reviewed sports game designs (I worked in the game industry for 20 years). I also worked with quite a few people that were involved with the NHL series years back (Not to mention NBA live before the revamp, MLB & Fifa games all from EA). In fact I still know some people working at EA.

    I'd argue I'm more accountable for my play then you are, as I have no problem with getting beat by playing bad defense and being outplayed by someone better, its what drives me to want to play the game more. The challenge of trying to beat someone better then myself, I find nothing more enjoyable. What I have a problem with (and other players posting here) are finding, is we are sometimes not getting beat by better players, we're getting beat by the game itself. I'm assuming with the purpose of making things easier for casuals or driving up retention is why things are the way they currently sit. Something is not right when I have a harder time scoring against low ranked players, then i do players above me in CR.

    I see you didn't pay any attention to the items i listed above. Ignore for a second about a single system like DDA controlling these factors. You have to admit the items i listed above do exist, and do impact what happens in a game, and lastly are not in the control of either player, correct? Otherwise, explain to me how i can cleanly win a faceoff without touching the controller? That does & can happen, and there must be a reason for it. I'd be really surprised if you haven't seen this happen.

    Yeah, I've seen that happen with faceoffs. I don't know why it happens. I imagine there's a good explanation for it. I'm not going to make one up. I'll wait to hear what the devs say instead of assuming.

    If you want to believe the game takes over chooses when you win and lose, that's up to you. I don't get why you'd even play a game that operated that way. There's tons of proof it doesn't work like this. Just look at the leaderboards. Why are there so many people with outstanding records? That's not their skill? That's the computer deciding they need to win so it just scripts them all in their favor?

    I think you're putting too much stock in CR. I've seen guys with low CRs play better than it indicates. You yourself seem to think you're an elite player. So, if you just picked up the game today and had a low CR, does that mean the game thinks you're bad and is going to give you wins you don't deserve?

    So if that happens with faceoffs, what else does it happen with? Realistically it should never happen. There's also the other items I've seen where its not fully in the players control
    • Increasing the likeliness to score in the last minute of a period
    • Increasing the likeliness of scoring directly after a turnover
    • increasing the chance of knocking a loose puck to the opposing team after a penalty has been called
    • Increasing the change of a turnover if you poke at a loose puck twice
    • Decreasing the likeliness of hitting an empty net when the goalie is pulled
    • Increasing the likeliness of your player not picking up the puck after a penalty has been called

    Some of these are harder to quantify. The exception being the poke check of loose pucks.

    I'm not saying the game takes over and forces a loss, I'm saying it ramps up various factors to make it more difficult/challenging ( which is essentially what DDA is). Exception being this tends to happen for one player and not the other. Those factors might result in a loss, or make it near impossible to get the win. IMO there's zero "proof" this isn't happening, and more proof posted online by hundreds, if not thousands of different people regarding the same issues across multiple EA sports titles. People were posting about oddness before Fifa PC info was released, or they noticed the infamous patent.

    You mentioned before about confirmation bias, but I find that argument disingenuous. not a single person that purchase this game, expected it to work this way. Saying we're biased just isn't a good argument. I've said before, that I've seen the same factors when i win that work in my favor, this isn't only about when I lose games.

    Everything in your list is completely circumstantial. There is no proof whatsoever that it happens more in those situations than others. Continue to believe in it if you want. So long as you do, you'll never improve your game because you'll continually think nothing is your fault and the game has it out for you. You'd think if the game actually could read minds, it would be more advanced.

    What I stated about faceoffs getting won without user input is real, and as I mentioned, play online against someone and poke at a loose puck. The second time you do it, the puck will get knocked in the direction of the opposing team. That is real and has been in the game for a while. As is the hesitation of players to pick up a puck on a delayed penalty for the same team.

    Again, you're ignoring things you can test or see for yourself, and saying there is nothing there (That is confirmation bias at work). None of these items I listed are in the control of the player, and often make the difference between winning or losing. If you think asking to have the game to put more control in my hands (the players hands) isn't worthwhile, then really what is the point of playing? All of my arguments and comments are concerning things the player cannot control. Perhaps you are happy with what you have, but many, many, many players are not.
  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen.

    But you are implying that it can't happen.

    It most certainly can happen.

    What I'm saying is it "shouldn't" happen. I don't care how good the players are, there's a reason it doesn't happen in real life. what about 100% passing? that also shouldn't happen.

    So, if a player gets 4 wide open nets or 4 wide open passes due to misplays by the goalie or the defense, you want the game to artificially STOP those goals/passes from succeeding, just because it would result in a shooting/passing percentage of 100%?

    What's more unrealistic in your eyes?

    1. A team totally 4 shots & 4 passes in a single game
    2. A team having 100% shot accuracy and 100% passing accuracy in a single game
    3. both

    Imo goalies in the NHL make the occasional great save off perfectly place snipes. This doesn't happen enough in NHL 19. Or it happens when playing lower ranked players with more consistency.
  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Can't say I like the tone of your defensive posts. I'll still reply but note, I'm not smiling.
    If you only give up 4 scoring chances, but those scoring chances are absolute beauties - the ratio of goals:chances doesn't matter. You have no context of these 'chances' either. You assume OP is telling the truth and that EA is lying at every turn.

    Those were nothing chance, unscreened slap shot from the point. toss the puck at the net a few times, and somehow my goalie wasn't able to make a save. Don't tell me I have no context of anything, you don't know how much I've played EA hockey games. btw the OP was ME.
    The goalie reaction on this is definitely a bug. However, It's very telling when a puck is dumped in to your zone and the opponent already has a player between the goalie and his teammates.

    Not my fault the AI had my players skating out of the zone. So you admit its a bug, what other things will you admit should not happen? It shouldn't have produced a rebound the way it did. If your answer is to blame the player for everything, you won't get far around here.
    Videos of this?
    No.
    Video? Typically this is because of a screened shot - something that is lost on a lot of people around here.
    No again. Do you seriously think I record a video of every goal against? You see this if you play the game enough. Shots where the goalie doesn't move at all to the left or right, to get in front of a puck. un-screened.

    How? How is it CLEARLY because of a competitive rating? What evidence do you have to prove that?

    Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?
    Unless we have video of this exact scenario, it's just as safe to assume you have a deficiency in your game as it is to assume DDA exists.

    I think it's safer to assume I'm going to ignore foolish comments like that.

    Having 4 goals on 4 shots doesn't equal assist, lol. If you believe that, well, not sure what to tell ya. Some people can shoot extremely accurately when given prime scoring chances. Certain areas, if you let me get there, you're gonna get scored on.

    As i said before, I'm not talking about players going into high scoring chance areas. I'm talking players shooting as they cross the blue line and the goalie screened missing it. Taking shots from bad locations and them some how going in. Weak un-screened wrister from the point going in, or the goalie doing something strange to get out of position.

    If I let a player get into a high scoring area, that is on me.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Fatboyee wrote: »


    What I stated about faceoffs getting won without user input is real, and as I mentioned, play online against someone and poke at a loose puck. The second time you do it, the puck will get knocked in the direction of the opposing team. That is real and has been in the game for a while. As is the hesitation of players to pick up a puck on a delayed penalty for the same team.

    Again, you're ignoring things you can test or see for yourself, and saying there is nothing there (That is confirmation bias at work). None of these items I listed are in the control of the player, and often make the difference between winning or losing. If you think asking to have the game to put more control in my hands (the players hands) isn't worthwhile, then really what is the point of playing? All of my arguments and comments are concerning things the player cannot control. Perhaps you are happy with what you have, but many, many, many players are not.

    The puck gets poked in the direction it gets poked. It doesn't matter whether it's the 2nd, 3rd, or 12th poke. It's based on how it's poked. There is no hesitation to pick up the puck based on a delayed penalty either. I'm not ignoring anything.

    The game is already under your control. You're claiming that it's not.

    Anyway, this is a complete waste of time. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »


    What I stated about faceoffs getting won without user input is real, and as I mentioned, play online against someone and poke at a loose puck. The second time you do it, the puck will get knocked in the direction of the opposing team. That is real and has been in the game for a while. As is the hesitation of players to pick up a puck on a delayed penalty for the same team.

    Again, you're ignoring things you can test or see for yourself, and saying there is nothing there (That is confirmation bias at work). None of these items I listed are in the control of the player, and often make the difference between winning or losing. If you think asking to have the game to put more control in my hands (the players hands) isn't worthwhile, then really what is the point of playing? All of my arguments and comments are concerning things the player cannot control. Perhaps you are happy with what you have, but many, many, many players are not.

    The puck gets poked in the direction it gets poked. It doesn't matter whether it's the 2nd, 3rd, or 12th poke. It's based on how it's poked. There is no hesitation to pick up the puck based on a delayed penalty either. I'm not ignoring anything.

    The game is already under your control. You're claiming that it's not.

    Anyway, this is a complete waste of time. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

    The puck doesn't go in the direction its poked. Like i said test it during a game against someone in versus. I've seen the puck make the strangest paths to opponents that lead to turn overs and breakaways, when poking at it from behind. The most extreme case I saw a poke cause the puck to move in the opposite direction i poked at it from, could be a bug (seems less random then intentional) but at the very least that combined with backwards one timers, just shouldn't happen.

    I'm not asking for everything to be in my control, but very specific things (puck pickups anyone?) that would clearly make for a less frustrating experience. Put the onus on the player, and then people will complain less.

    You're right, lets agree to disagree.

  • Just a note, I'm pretty sure this video complains about the exact same issues summed up into his top needed changes.

  • Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen.

    But you are implying that it can't happen.

    It most certainly can happen.

    What I'm saying is it "shouldn't" happen. I don't care how good the players are, there's a reason it doesn't happen in real life. what about 100% passing? that also shouldn't happen.

    So, if a player gets 4 wide open nets or 4 wide open passes due to misplays by the goalie or the defense, you want the game to artificially STOP those goals/passes from succeeding, just because it would result in a shooting/passing percentage of 100%?

    What's more unrealistic in your eyes?

    1. A team totally 4 shots & 4 passes in a single game
    2. A team having 100% shot accuracy and 100% passing accuracy in a single game
    3. both

    What's more realistic to me is a game not artificially stopping successful scoring chances just because a player is currently trending at 100% shooting.
    Imo goalies in the NHL make the occasional great save off perfectly place snipes. This doesn't happen enough in NHL 19.

    It happens all the time and this isn't debatable. I think if you are seeing that much success for your opponents - you really need to take a look at the way you're playing defensively.




  • Fatboyee
    83 posts Member
    edited July 2019
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Fatboyee wrote: »
    Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen.

    But you are implying that it can't happen.

    It most certainly can happen.

    What I'm saying is it "shouldn't" happen. I don't care how good the players are, there's a reason it doesn't happen in real life. what about 100% passing? that also shouldn't happen.

    So, if a player gets 4 wide open nets or 4 wide open passes due to misplays by the goalie or the defense, you want the game to artificially STOP those goals/passes from succeeding, just because it would result in a shooting/passing percentage of 100%?

    What's more unrealistic in your eyes?

    1. A team totally 4 shots & 4 passes in a single game
    2. A team having 100% shot accuracy and 100% passing accuracy in a single game
    3. both

    What's more realistic to me is a game not artificially stopping successful scoring chances just because a player is currently trending at 100% shooting.
    Imo goalies in the NHL make the occasional great save off perfectly place snipes. This doesn't happen enough in NHL 19.

    It happens all the time and this isn't debatable. I think if you are seeing that much success for your opponents - you really need to take a look at the way you're playing defensively.

    I think the right answer is #3 being both are unrealistic. The only way that happens is if the goalie is fooled by the exact same shot, in the exact same place every time. I'd rather have the goalie logic back where it sees trends in what the player is doing and will try to prevent it. Every NHL game has its money goals which is a separate issue.

    I'm not talking about someone intending to snipe as i explained today. You will get someone that barely knows how to play jump out to a quick lead with a really high shooting percentage like this. You could call it luck, but to be honest luck isn't the issue when the game helps weaker opponents.
    Post edited by Fatboyee on
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