If you only give up 4 scoring chances, but those scoring chances are absolute beauties - the ratio of goals:chances doesn't matter. You have no context of these 'chances' either. You assume OP is telling the truth and that EA is lying at every turn.
Those were nothing chance, unscreened slap shot from the point. toss the puck at the net a few times, and somehow my goalie wasn't able to make a save. Don't tell me I have no context of anything, you don't know how much I've played EA hockey games. btw the OP was ME.
The goalie reaction on this is definitely a bug. However, It's very telling when a puck is dumped in to your zone and the opponent already has a player between the goalie and his teammates.
Not my fault the AI had my players skating out of the zone. So you admit its a bug, what other things will you admit should not happen? It shouldn't have produced a rebound the way it did. If your answer is to blame the player for everything, you won't get far around here.
Videos of this?
No.
Video? Typically this is because of a screened shot - something that is lost on a lot of people around here.
No again. Do you seriously think I record a video of every goal against? You see this if you play the game enough. Shots where the goalie doesn't move at all to the left or right, to get in front of a puck. un-screened.
How? How is it CLEARLY because of a competitive rating? What evidence do you have to prove that?
Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?
Unless we have video of this exact scenario, it's just as safe to assume you have a deficiency in your game as it is to assume DDA exists.
I think it's safer to assume I'm going to ignore foolish comments like that.
Having 4 goals on 4 shots doesn't equal assist, lol. If you believe that, well, not sure what to tell ya. Some people can shoot extremely accurately when given prime scoring chances. Certain areas, if you let me get there, you're gonna get scored on.
Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen. Should happen in the video game as well. You can also tell if the player is good enough to snipe shots or just randomly throws it at the net and your goalie makes a weak attempt at a save. There's a noticeable difference to getting into high scoring areas versus low scoring areas.
If I only take shots that i know will go in based on the situation, of course they should all be goals if i execute the controls perfectly, and the goalie isn't in position to make a save, why should it not be a goal?
I've yet to see someone shoot 100% by throwing random shots on net. Show me proof and that it happens consistently, I might buy what you're selling. Otherwise, it's absolutely confirmation bias. Unless you're Neo from the matrix, and can see the code while things happen, i feel it's fair to say confirmation bias is exactly what you're seeing.
If you only give up 4 scoring chances, but those scoring chances are absolute beauties - the ratio of goals:chances doesn't matter. You have no context of these 'chances' either. You assume OP is telling the truth and that EA is lying at every turn.
Those were nothing chance, unscreened slap shot from the point. toss the puck at the net a few times, and somehow my goalie wasn't able to make a save. Don't tell me I have no context of anything, you don't know how much I've played EA hockey games. btw the OP was ME.
The goalie reaction on this is definitely a bug. However, It's very telling when a puck is dumped in to your zone and the opponent already has a player between the goalie and his teammates.
Not my fault the AI had my players skating out of the zone. So you admit its a bug, what other things will you admit should not happen? It shouldn't have produced a rebound the way it did. If your answer is to blame the player for everything, you won't get far around here.
Videos of this?
No.
Video? Typically this is because of a screened shot - something that is lost on a lot of people around here.
No again. Do you seriously think I record a video of every goal against? You see this if you play the game enough. Shots where the goalie doesn't move at all to the left or right, to get in front of a puck. un-screened.
How? How is it CLEARLY because of a competitive rating? What evidence do you have to prove that?
Games like that only happen due to a competitive rating gap. If you were playing someone of an equal level the CPU is less likely to assist, and you tend to get less easy goals. Any game where an opponent is has a shooting percentage of 100 and takes less then 5 shots is getting an assist from the computer. Try playing the game, you will see this. If you can't see what others complain about, then why bother coming in here to get defensive?
Unless we have video of this exact scenario, it's just as safe to assume you have a deficiency in your game as it is to assume DDA exists.
I think it's safer to assume I'm going to ignore foolish comments like that.
Having 4 goals on 4 shots doesn't equal assist, lol. If you believe that, well, not sure what to tell ya. Some people can shoot extremely accurately when given prime scoring chances. Certain areas, if you let me get there, you're gonna get scored on.
Have you ever seen a game in the NHL where one team shoots for 100% for an entire game? it doesn't happen. Should happen in the video game as well. You can also tell if the player is good enough to snipe shots or just randomly throws it at the net and your goalie makes a weak attempt at a save. There's a noticeable difference to getting into high scoring areas versus low scoring areas.
If I only take shots that i know will go in based on the situation, of course they should all be goals if i execute the controls perfectly, and the goalie isn't in position to make a save, why should it not be a goal?
I've yet to see someone shoot 100% by throwing random shots on net. Show me proof and that it happens consistently, I might buy what you're selling. Otherwise, it's absolutely confirmation bias. Unless you're Neo from the matrix, and can see the code while things happen, i feel it's fair to say confirmation bias is exactly what you're seeing.
Still that's unrealistic, the only reason the goalie is out of position is due to the AI making it out of position. Nobody should have a 100% shooting percentage or passing percentage if they are actually playing the game. It doesn't happen in real life and shouldn't happen in the game. !00% shooting % in the NBA shouldn't happen, just like a player batting .1000 shouldn't happen.
We just need better goalie logic don't you agree? I've seen it happen, just because you haven't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Should it be possible? well thats debatable. technically yes, but I've only seen it happen with someone that barely could play the game. I mean, anyone taking 3 shots in a game, clearly isn't trying to do that on purpose if they can avoid it.
The only confirmation bias here is in the people saying " I don't see it, so its not happening ". I've played over 700 games of versus, I've had more then my share of 50 + shot games where its so difficult to score, and after I finish, I find the person has a low CR. It's almost consistent in the way this happens.
I don't need to see the game code to say, " hey EA, something is acting strange in the game". The same people arguing that none of these things are happening, and to "play better" are the same people that can't explain why faceoffs wins happen without touching the controller. Why people can put down a controller, and barely play to protect a lead. Why the CPU helps some players more then others ( Goalie or Skaters) , or why low ranked players can have an easier time scoring.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the thousands of people complaining about the way NHL19 plays, might actually have noticed things you haven't, or possibly play the game more then yourself.
the only reason the goalie is out of position is due to the AI making it out of position.
The goalie can be out of position for a multitude of reasons. I understand A.I. is what drives the decision making process for the goalie, which I think is your point. However, each of those decisions is heavily influenced by the play unfolding in front of them which includes human error or human skill.
Nobody should have a 100% shooting percentage or passing percentage if they are actually playing the game.
Again - the implication here is that you believe if someone is just nailing their passing 100% - the game should introduce error based solely on the success of the player. That's quite absurd.
It doesn't happen in real life and shouldn't happen in the game.
In the NHL - there would never be a time where a team is so overpowered they would get 100% passing and shooting percentage. I get your point.
However, that's not the case in the virtual arena. Because there are people incredibly skilled at this game, the possibility of being completely dominated with 100% passing and shooting percentage is there. It can happen.
They only confirmation bias here is in the people saying " I don't see it, so its not happening ". I've played over 700 games of versus, I've had more then my share of 50 + shot games where its so difficult to score, and after I finish, I find the person has a low CR. It's almost consistent in the way this happens.
Again - without video of the games you played where it was 'so hard to score' we can't tell if you generate quality scoring chances or not. I would guess the number of quality chances is far lower than you claim based on how much of an issue you seem to have.
The same people arguing that none of these things are happening, and to "play better" are the same people that can't explain why faceoffs wins happen without touching the controller.
Faceoff wins happen without touching the controller when the opponent flinches and loses the draw before the puck is dropped or both players miss the input and the player with a higher faceoff rating takes the cake.
Why people can put down a controller, and barely play to protect a lead.
This is on EA. There needs to be some measures in place to prevent this. IMO - if a player is circling in their own zone for 1 minute and/or unresponsive for 1 minute - all other A.I. (including goalies) freeze until the puck is moved out of the zone or the player registers inputs on the controller again.
Why the CPU helps some players more then others ( Goalie or Skaters)
Have you considered that in some instances, not only does Team A have better players than Team B - at some moments in time that is only made worse when Team A has Line 1 out versus Team B's line 4. In those cases, you will likely see some players perform 'better than others' - but it's not A.I. assists - it's a line matchup combined with a lower performing team overall versus a higher performing team.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the thousands of people complaining about the way NHL19 plays, might actually have noticed things you haven't, or possibly play the game more then yourself.
Thing is, there aren't 'thousands of people complaining'. You surround yourself with people who complain to confirm your bias, so from your perspective EVERYONE is complaining, but it's just not so.
The goalie can be out of position for a multitude of reasons. I understand A.I. is what drives the decision making process for the goalie, which I think is your point. However, each of those decisions is heavily influenced by the play unfolding in front of them which includes human error or human skill.
Agreed, however goalie positioning tends to be out of a players hands when they are playing defense. It's currently extremely inconsistent at times, almost to the point where you can predict, if i give up the next shot it will go in. It just needs to be more even IMO.
Again - the implication here is that you believe if someone is just nailing their passing 100% - the game should introduce error based solely on the success of the player. That's quite absurd.
The thing is, I've never seen anyone complete a game with 100% passing. I actually think the game is introducing some error into passing, be it based on player ratings, or assist. I'm sure you have seen this happen in game where for whatever reason, you end up passing to the opposing team instead of hitting the player right next to the one you are controlling.
In the NHL - there would never be a time where a team is so overpowered they would get 100% passing and shooting percentage. I get your point.
However, that's not the case in the virtual arena. Because there are people incredibly skilled at this game, the possibility of being completely dominated with 100% passing and shooting percentage is there. It can happen.
This is the thing, I think the game allows for 100% shooting right now ( which is unrealistic as the goalie should factor in) but the game doesn't allow for 100% passing. Anyway as i've said before, people just randomly throwing the puck at the net from random areas on the ice, should in no way have a high shooting percentage.
Again - without video of the games you played where it was 'so hard to score' we can't tell if you generate quality scoring chances or not. I would guess the number of quality chances is far lower than you claim based on how much of an issue you seem to have.
You would guess based on what? confirmation bias?
Faceoff wins happen without touching the controller when the opponent flinches and loses the draw before the puck is dropped or both players miss the input and the player with a higher faceoff rating takes the cake.
That shouldn't happen. simply put, if one player misses and the other player doesn't even attempt to win, the player the puck should sit there until one of them picks it up. I've seen other people say that the CPU helps some players. i'd really like to know to what extent.
There's other things I'd like to confirm as well. Why is it harder to pick up a puck when a delayed penalty has been called?
This is on EA. There needs to be some measures in place to prevent this. IMO - if a player is circling in their own zone for 1 minute and/or unresponsive for 1 minute - all other A.I. (including goalies) freeze until the puck is moved out of the zone or the player registers inputs on the controller again.
Agreed, there needs to be something to address this. AKA puck raggers Or even players that are spinning back and forth in the offensive zone with the puck should lose control at some point.
Have you considered that in some instances, not only does Team A have better players than Team B - at some moments in time that is only made worse when Team A has Line 1 out versus Team B's line 4. In those cases, you will likely see some players perform 'better than others' - but it's not A.I. assists - it's a line matchup combined with a lower performing team overall versus a higher performing team.
yes I have and I've seen this happen when two of the same teams play each other. If the users aren't controlling line changes ( depending on the control scheme ) the lines will be a wash and match each other ( unless penalties come in to play or a player is hurt or thrown out )
This is flat out not true.
I don't know about that. after all the games I've played, to me is noticeable the AI does more for lower ranked players then i would expect. There's videos of this online already. Don't take my word for it.
Thing is, there aren't 'thousands of people complaining'. You surround yourself with people who complain to confirm your bias, so from your perspective EVERYONE is complaining, but it's just not so.
Have a search online for the things people complain about. There's literally thousands of hits.
Confirmed its not in the game. Thats because its in the match making server!
So you've been told it isn't in the game - so you switch your theory to 'matchmaking server' which LITERALLY has ZERO to do with actual gameplay.
Sorry, Fatboyeee - this is the definition of a conspiracy theory.
Actually, the devs are confirming it isn't programmed into the game at all, which I completely believe. However, it has never been confirmed if there are any changes on the server side.
I have said it before, I will say it again. All these "theories" or whatever we want to call them, are a combination of sloppy (or less than ideal I should say) programming and is server related as well.
Yes too many times I have been scored on and hated the way it happened, but also happens way too many times where I score and hate how it happens. The game is not even remotely as organic as the real thing. In all honesty, even in 10 years the game will still not be like what we see on tv. It just won't happen anytime soon.
Never been more obvious since the game was released for free and there is a whole batch of new guys with teams filled with 85 and 86 overalls. They play identical in every aspect of the game as the 99 overalls. What a joke.
Never been more obvious since the game was released for free and there is a whole batch of new guys with teams filled with 85 and 86 overalls. They play identical in every aspect of the game as the 99 overalls. What a joke.
You can say that again , absolutely more obvious than ever
Very simple post. You may think dynamic difficulty is the future of gaming, but you will have have a revolt of high skill players who think your game has turned away from fair play and more to trying to extort \money out of players who want to perform better. Obviously you have spent millions on dynamic difficulty, but I am just warning you as a company (especially who wants to be in the E sports scene) you must disable dynamic difficulty to have any relevance going forward. Keep it for Online Seasons if you must, but any competitive play needs to have it removed going forward.
Curious, has any developer here explicitly said that DDA doesn't exist in this game? If so, can you quote them?
Ben has stated there is no tilt or DDA. I have seen it myself. Tyler Horsfall has also stated as much on twitter or wherever he hangs out.
Ya. Understood. I keep running into hearsay, but thus far no one has been been able to quote me that it's not explicitly implemented. Might missed it in this thread, but the only dev notes I see here is the dev answering specific instances of online play.
There is no DDA in NHL
Good to know.
Are player attributes changed/modified somehow during the game? Human or AI?
The way the attributes are used throughout the game is consistent. There are negative impacts on players such as how fatigue or error models in different mechanics impacts them but nothin that isn’t a consistent effect for all players throughout the game.
Why aren't attributes scaled 0-100 ...
Like if the fastest skater skates around the rink in 10 seconds , 0 being 20 , wouldn't that be much better to scale than 50-99? Same with shot accuracy/power and strength ...
I feel attributes would work better if you had a point of measurement, pretty sure every NHL team has they own skills competition by now ...
The only problem I have with losing to players who are clearly MUCH worse than I seems to consistently stem from how the AI goalies in this game behave (regardless of attributes). I think this is the case for many who make claims about "ice-tilt" or whatever other conspiracy theories are out there as well. The problem is this: both users could select the same teams in OVP and start a game.
One player could absolutely DOMINATE the other guy/girl by peppering their AI goalie with high quality shots from the slot or nicely setup one-timers or what have you and the goalie consistently makes saves. Fair enough. Sometimes goalies play lights out (although this sort of gets into the heart of the issue a bit.)
The other user could possibly play a much, much more "simple" style of game. Not using much hockey sense and just rushing their game by taking slappers from way out as soon as they enter the zone... and here's the problem. The goalie on the first player's team, the SAME AI goalie that has been playing lights out for the other team lets this weak slapshot hit his glove, bounce over it and onto the ice behind him and just sit there for a good second... just waiting for someone on the opposing team to skate over and tap that baby in. What does the AI goalie do while this is happening? Either freeze up, petrified by the rookie-level mistake he just made or dive in the general direction of the puck to cover it but completely miss it in the process, allowing the puck to maintain its vulnerability. The tap in occurs.
The game ends 1-0 as the player 1 loses with a 20-4 shot differential consisting of a bunch of great shots/plays.
This is the one of the main culprits of the "unfairness" we sometimes get in this game. Beyond just gaffs in the goaltending AI there's also just a dice roll that is always going on behind the scenes that determines whether or not a goalie is going to make a save on any given shot. I mean... you can test this basic fact yourself. You can take the best shooter in the game and the best goalie in the game and go into practice mode and take the same exact shot from the same exact spot on the ice over and over again and sometimes the goalie will save it, other times he won't. That in itself adds randomness to the game and unfortunately it's a kind of randomness that has to be in the game just so that there is a limit to the 100% go-to "glitch" shots that people hate so much.
Anyway.. that's my take on it. I really hate how often a simple goaltending AI mistake can ruin the game for a good player (or save the game for a below-average player). It seems with the new gameplay trailer that they are trying to remedy this somewhat but who knows how that'll actually turn out.
Curious, has any developer here explicitly said that DDA doesn't exist in this game? If so, can you quote them?
Ben has stated there is no tilt or DDA. I have seen it myself. Tyler Horsfall has also stated as much on twitter or wherever he hangs out.
Ya. Understood. I keep running into hearsay, but thus far no one has been been able to quote me that it's not explicitly implemented. Might missed it in this thread, but the only dev notes I see here is the dev answering specific instances of online play.
There is no DDA in NHL
Good to know.
Are player attributes changed/modified somehow during the game? Human or AI?
The way the attributes are used throughout the game is consistent. There are negative impacts on players such as how fatigue or error models in different mechanics impacts them but nothin that isn’t a consistent effect for all players throughout the game.
Why aren't attributes scaled 0-100 ...
Like if the fastest skater skates around the rink in 10 seconds , 0 being 20 , wouldn't that be much better to scale than 50-99? Same with shot accuracy/power and strength ...
I feel attributes would work better if you had a point of measurement, pretty sure every NHL team has they own skills competition by now ...
Having the attributes use the range all the way to 0 would give us double the fidelity but it wouldn't change things too much. Skating time around the rink has to do with acceleration, agility, top end speed and the path actually taken so it isn't just a matter of setting a variable to one number and saying that would take a player a certain time every time. When we look at it right now, we trust that those setting our attributes are doing a good job in terms of the relative differences between each other and then we test the mechanic side against certain players.
So if we take a McDavid time around the rink in the fastest skater competition and get him skating without the puck in our game, following the path they take in the Skills Competition (which requires the nets to be moved in), he would be right in the ball park.
Also remember that with our game styles, we are tuning some things to be more or less forgiving depending on the length of periods we expect players to be playing as well. When the game is arcade, the game is far more forgiving than it is on Full Sim and sliders can be tuned at a detailed level beyond those as well. The attributes and game mechanics are the same across the game, it is just how they are tuned. The more arcade/forgiving the game is, the less room there is for variance where the more sim it is, the more room there is for subtle variance and the current attributes give us a lot of room to get that already.
Curious, has any developer here explicitly said that DDA doesn't exist in this game? If so, can you quote them?
Ben has stated there is no tilt or DDA. I have seen it myself. Tyler Horsfall has also stated as much on twitter or wherever he hangs out.
Ya. Understood. I keep running into hearsay, but thus far no one has been been able to quote me that it's not explicitly implemented. Might missed it in this thread, but the only dev notes I see here is the dev answering specific instances of online play.
There is no DDA in NHL
Good to know.
Are player attributes changed/modified somehow during the game? Human or AI?
The way the attributes are used throughout the game is consistent. There are negative impacts on players such as how fatigue or error models in different mechanics impacts them but nothin that isn’t a consistent effect for all players throughout the game.
Why aren't attributes scaled 0-100 ...
Like if the fastest skater skates around the rink in 10 seconds , 0 being 20 , wouldn't that be much better to scale than 50-99? Same with shot accuracy/power and strength ...
I feel attributes would work better if you had a point of measurement, pretty sure every NHL team has they own skills competition by now ...
Having the attributes use the range all the way to 0 would give us double the fidelity but it wouldn't change things too much. Skating time around the rink has to do with acceleration, agility, top end speed and the path actually taken so it isn't just a matter of setting a variable to one number and saying that would take a player a certain time every time. When we look at it right now, we trust that those setting our attributes are doing a good job in terms of the relative differences between each other and then we test the mechanic side against certain players.
So if we take a McDavid time around the rink in the fastest skater competition and get him skating without the puck in our game, following the path they take in the Skills Competition (which requires the nets to be moved in), he would be right in the ball park.
Also remember that with our game styles, we are tuning some things to be more or less forgiving depending on the length of periods we expect players to be playing as well. When the game is arcade, the game is far more forgiving than it is on Full Sim and sliders can be tuned at a detailed level beyond those as well. The attributes and game mechanics are the same across the game, it is just how they are tuned. The more arcade/forgiving the game is, the less room there is for variance where the more sim it is, the more room there is for subtle variance and the current attributes give us a lot of room to get that already.
Thank you for your answer .
Then if full sim is the most realistic, why use competitive sliders ?
Then if full sim is the most realistic, why use competitive sliders ?
Most players are happy playing shorter length periods for online than what Full Sim is setup for. Even competitive is too sim for some players but it is a good balance for online competitive play while still supporting the shorter periods.
Confirmed its not in the game. Thats because its in the match making server!
So you've been told it isn't in the game - so you switch your theory to 'matchmaking server' which LITERALLY has ZERO to do with actual gameplay.
Sorry, Fatboyeee - this is the definition of a conspiracy theory.
Actually, the devs are confirming it isn't programmed into the game at all, which I completely believe. However, it has never been confirmed if there are any changes on the server side.
I have said it before, I will say it again. All these "theories" or whatever we want to call them, are a combination of sloppy (or less than ideal I should say) programming and is server related as well.
Yes too many times I have been scored on and hated the way it happened, but also happens way too many times where I score and hate how it happens. The game is not even remotely as organic as the real thing. In all honesty, even in 10 years the game will still not be like what we see on tv. It just won't happen anytime soon.
However there is a momentum meter in this game that you cant see. That has been Confirmed. Even in their 18 trailer they say change the momentum of the game with a save. People refer to it as ice tilt or w/e.
It can cause a penalty, a last minute Goal or a sloppy goal past the goalie.
You don't really believe that all the goals that happen in the last 60 seconds happen by accident or skill? The meter is meant to keep games closer period. Lets be honest yes a group of LG NHL players are gonna beat a squad of rando's in drop in. How ever I been in plenty of games where it never should have been as close as it was.
The real problem is "momentum" is a zone you get in. 6 players in a game can get in a zone and have momentum. How ever it should not be artificially created. It does not need to be. Unless they are trying to keep less good players online? So players don't quit with a bad taste and never purchase the Games again because they are getting smashed on so bad.
Confirmed its not in the game. Thats because its in the match making server!
So you've been told it isn't in the game - so you switch your theory to 'matchmaking server' which LITERALLY has ZERO to do with actual gameplay.
Sorry, Fatboyeee - this is the definition of a conspiracy theory.
Actually, the devs are confirming it isn't programmed into the game at all, which I completely believe. However, it has never been confirmed if there are any changes on the server side.
I have said it before, I will say it again. All these "theories" or whatever we want to call them, are a combination of sloppy (or less than ideal I should say) programming and is server related as well.
Yes too many times I have been scored on and hated the way it happened, but also happens way too many times where I score and hate how it happens. The game is not even remotely as organic as the real thing. In all honesty, even in 10 years the game will still not be like what we see on tv. It just won't happen anytime soon.
However there is a momentum meter in this game that you cant see. That has been Confirmed. Even in their 18 trailer they say change the momentum of the game with a save. People refer to it as ice tilt or w/e.
It can cause a penalty, a last minute Goal or a sloppy goal past the goalie.
You don't really believe that all the goals that happen in the last 60 seconds happen by accident or skill? The meter is meant to keep games closer period. Lets be honest yes a group of LG NHL players are gonna beat a squad of rando's in drop in. How ever I been in plenty of games where it never should have been as close as it was.
The real problem is "momentum" is a zone you get in. 6 players in a game can get in a zone and have momentum. How ever it should not be artificially created. It does not need to be. Unless they are trying to keep less good players online? So players don't quit with a bad taste and never purchase the Games again because they are getting smashed on so bad.
Devs also confirmed momentum is not part of the game anymore.
Then if full sim is the most realistic, why use competitive sliders ?
Most players are happy playing shorter length periods for online than what Full Sim is setup for. Even competitive is too sim for some players but it is a good balance for online competitive play while still supporting the shorter periods.
This may just be me, but I'm all for a skill gap, competitive implies it will assist the other player if one player is that much stronger because then it isn't competitive ,it's just a walloping . In order to keep things competitive, things must be done which will ultimately ruin a skill gap.
I say we go to 5 minute periods, not four, last minute real . And we embrace the skill gap, especially in higher divisions.
Like all this assist stuff, the hints, feedback thing ,should be automatically disabled , and pass assist should be capped , when you are in division one play , it should be the best of the best in the most realistic hockey setting , or most simulated setting ....
This Game is supposed to be a hockey sim for that reason I 100% disagree with competitive, amongst other mentioned reasons , but that one should be enough ...
This dynamic difficulty or ice tilt can easily be a result of the game making itself competitive for all users ... Just humour me for a week NHL 19 is almost done , just for a week set the online gameplay slider to full sim , and embrace a full sim hockey game, that I thought this was supposed to be ...
Then if full sim is the most realistic, why use competitive sliders ?
Most players are happy playing shorter length periods for online than what Full Sim is setup for. Even competitive is too sim for some players but it is a good balance for online competitive play while still supporting the shorter periods.
This may just be me, but I'm all for a skill gap, competitive implies it will assist the other player if one player is that much stronger because then it isn't competitive ,it's just a walloping . In order to keep things competitive, things must be done which will ultimately ruin a skill gap.
I say we go to 5 minute periods, not four, last minute real . And we embrace the skill gap, especially in higher divisions.
Like all this assist stuff, the hints, feedback thing ,should be automatically disabled , and pass assist should be capped , when you are in division one play , it should be the best of the best in the most realistic hockey setting , or most simulated setting ....
This Game is supposed to be a hockey sim for that reason I 100% disagree with competitive, amongst other mentioned reasons , but that one should be enough ...
This dynamic difficulty or ice tilt can easily be a result of the game making itself competitive for all users ... Just humour me for a week NHL 19 is almost done , just for a week set the online gameplay slider to full sim , and embrace a full sim hockey game, that I thought this was supposed to be ...
I feel like you're misinterpreting the meaning of competitive in this context.
So think about dynamic difficulty does before we even start. DDA basically dumbs down skilled players in order for lesser skilled players to become competitive. So that in theory more casuals can buy the game and hopefully buy packs. That is what they were hoping for in dynamic difficulty. Though we all know that this game tanks every year and dda is a huge failure. Until they get rid of dynamic difficulty the game will always tank. You can fix shooting, passing, skating and anything else but until you get rid of dda this game will always tank.
I'll give you several other reasons why this game tanks.
1. You are trying to make this game for casuals. Anyone who is a hockey fan is not a casual player. They live and breathe the sport. We played it almost every day as kids whether it was ice hockey in high school or even street hockey as a lot of us played in street leagues like me. EA, do you think for 1 second a competitive hardcore hockey fan and player want their skills dumbed down just so Little Johnny can be on my level ? You must be out of your minds if any competitive sports fan and player will allow that. That is a problem right there.
2. Goaltending in this game is horrific. It is like why even have goalies in your game. You totally insult great goalies of the NHL in your game. If I was Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or even Billy Smith and I played your video game I would call you up personally and tell you how **** hurt I really am. EA totally disregards a goalies greatness in this game. You allow players in this game to be able to score atleast 10-15 goals in a game. That is ridiculous. Tell me how many times you see NHL games that are 10-5, 11-1, 7-8. It doesn't happen every day in the NHL but your video game it happens every day. A complete insult the great goalies of the NHL present and past. Make it tough to score. Make me sweat it out every game where it is like 3-2, 5-4 , 2-1, 1-0. Make players earn their goals. Gamers want great games that are competitive and fun. Anything that is too easy to do is boring.
3) You don't crack down on cheaters hard enough. You are so concerned with profitability that you completely disregard the integrity of the game. It does not matter how many times we report people for cheating it seems nothing gets done. I do not want to pay $60.00 a year for a game where I am constantly being lag switched and ip booted the majority of the time. It just is not fun and it is not worth a money investment. You need to do a much much greater job in this area. It isn't so much of losing a game that ticks people of in this game but it is more about how they lose in this game.
Replies
If I only take shots that i know will go in based on the situation, of course they should all be goals if i execute the controls perfectly, and the goalie isn't in position to make a save, why should it not be a goal?
I've yet to see someone shoot 100% by throwing random shots on net. Show me proof and that it happens consistently, I might buy what you're selling. Otherwise, it's absolutely confirmation bias. Unless you're Neo from the matrix, and can see the code while things happen, i feel it's fair to say confirmation bias is exactly what you're seeing.
Still that's unrealistic, the only reason the goalie is out of position is due to the AI making it out of position. Nobody should have a 100% shooting percentage or passing percentage if they are actually playing the game. It doesn't happen in real life and shouldn't happen in the game. !00% shooting % in the NBA shouldn't happen, just like a player batting .1000 shouldn't happen.
We just need better goalie logic don't you agree? I've seen it happen, just because you haven't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Should it be possible? well thats debatable. technically yes, but I've only seen it happen with someone that barely could play the game. I mean, anyone taking 3 shots in a game, clearly isn't trying to do that on purpose if they can avoid it.
The only confirmation bias here is in the people saying " I don't see it, so its not happening ". I've played over 700 games of versus, I've had more then my share of 50 + shot games where its so difficult to score, and after I finish, I find the person has a low CR. It's almost consistent in the way this happens.
I don't need to see the game code to say, " hey EA, something is acting strange in the game". The same people arguing that none of these things are happening, and to "play better" are the same people that can't explain why faceoffs wins happen without touching the controller. Why people can put down a controller, and barely play to protect a lead. Why the CPU helps some players more then others ( Goalie or Skaters) , or why low ranked players can have an easier time scoring.
Perhaps, just perhaps, the thousands of people complaining about the way NHL19 plays, might actually have noticed things you haven't, or possibly play the game more then yourself.
The goalie can be out of position for a multitude of reasons. I understand A.I. is what drives the decision making process for the goalie, which I think is your point. However, each of those decisions is heavily influenced by the play unfolding in front of them which includes human error or human skill.
Again - the implication here is that you believe if someone is just nailing their passing 100% - the game should introduce error based solely on the success of the player. That's quite absurd.
In the NHL - there would never be a time where a team is so overpowered they would get 100% passing and shooting percentage. I get your point.
However, that's not the case in the virtual arena. Because there are people incredibly skilled at this game, the possibility of being completely dominated with 100% passing and shooting percentage is there. It can happen.
Exactly!!
Again - without video of the games you played where it was 'so hard to score' we can't tell if you generate quality scoring chances or not. I would guess the number of quality chances is far lower than you claim based on how much of an issue you seem to have.
Faceoff wins happen without touching the controller when the opponent flinches and loses the draw before the puck is dropped or both players miss the input and the player with a higher faceoff rating takes the cake.
This is on EA. There needs to be some measures in place to prevent this. IMO - if a player is circling in their own zone for 1 minute and/or unresponsive for 1 minute - all other A.I. (including goalies) freeze until the puck is moved out of the zone or the player registers inputs on the controller again.
Have you considered that in some instances, not only does Team A have better players than Team B - at some moments in time that is only made worse when Team A has Line 1 out versus Team B's line 4. In those cases, you will likely see some players perform 'better than others' - but it's not A.I. assists - it's a line matchup combined with a lower performing team overall versus a higher performing team.
This is flat out not true.
Thing is, there aren't 'thousands of people complaining'. You surround yourself with people who complain to confirm your bias, so from your perspective EVERYONE is complaining, but it's just not so.
Agreed, however goalie positioning tends to be out of a players hands when they are playing defense. It's currently extremely inconsistent at times, almost to the point where you can predict, if i give up the next shot it will go in. It just needs to be more even IMO.
The thing is, I've never seen anyone complete a game with 100% passing. I actually think the game is introducing some error into passing, be it based on player ratings, or assist. I'm sure you have seen this happen in game where for whatever reason, you end up passing to the opposing team instead of hitting the player right next to the one you are controlling.
This is the thing, I think the game allows for 100% shooting right now ( which is unrealistic as the goalie should factor in) but the game doesn't allow for 100% passing. Anyway as i've said before, people just randomly throwing the puck at the net from random areas on the ice, should in no way have a high shooting percentage.
You would guess based on what? confirmation bias?
That shouldn't happen. simply put, if one player misses and the other player doesn't even attempt to win, the player the puck should sit there until one of them picks it up. I've seen other people say that the CPU helps some players. i'd really like to know to what extent.
There's other things I'd like to confirm as well. Why is it harder to pick up a puck when a delayed penalty has been called?
Agreed, there needs to be something to address this. AKA puck raggers Or even players that are spinning back and forth in the offensive zone with the puck should lose control at some point.
yes I have and I've seen this happen when two of the same teams play each other. If the users aren't controlling line changes ( depending on the control scheme ) the lines will be a wash and match each other ( unless penalties come in to play or a player is hurt or thrown out )
I don't know about that. after all the games I've played, to me is noticeable the AI does more for lower ranked players then i would expect. There's videos of this online already. Don't take my word for it.
Have a search online for the things people complain about. There's literally thousands of hits.
Actually, the devs are confirming it isn't programmed into the game at all, which I completely believe. However, it has never been confirmed if there are any changes on the server side.
I have said it before, I will say it again. All these "theories" or whatever we want to call them, are a combination of sloppy (or less than ideal I should say) programming and is server related as well.
Yes too many times I have been scored on and hated the way it happened, but also happens way too many times where I score and hate how it happens. The game is not even remotely as organic as the real thing. In all honesty, even in 10 years the game will still not be like what we see on tv. It just won't happen anytime soon.
You can say that again , absolutely more obvious than ever
Why aren't attributes scaled 0-100 ...
Like if the fastest skater skates around the rink in 10 seconds , 0 being 20 , wouldn't that be much better to scale than 50-99? Same with shot accuracy/power and strength ...
I feel attributes would work better if you had a point of measurement, pretty sure every NHL team has they own skills competition by now ...
One player could absolutely DOMINATE the other guy/girl by peppering their AI goalie with high quality shots from the slot or nicely setup one-timers or what have you and the goalie consistently makes saves. Fair enough. Sometimes goalies play lights out (although this sort of gets into the heart of the issue a bit.)
The other user could possibly play a much, much more "simple" style of game. Not using much hockey sense and just rushing their game by taking slappers from way out as soon as they enter the zone... and here's the problem. The goalie on the first player's team, the SAME AI goalie that has been playing lights out for the other team lets this weak slapshot hit his glove, bounce over it and onto the ice behind him and just sit there for a good second... just waiting for someone on the opposing team to skate over and tap that baby in. What does the AI goalie do while this is happening? Either freeze up, petrified by the rookie-level mistake he just made or dive in the general direction of the puck to cover it but completely miss it in the process, allowing the puck to maintain its vulnerability. The tap in occurs.
The game ends 1-0 as the player 1 loses with a 20-4 shot differential consisting of a bunch of great shots/plays.
This is the one of the main culprits of the "unfairness" we sometimes get in this game. Beyond just gaffs in the goaltending AI there's also just a dice roll that is always going on behind the scenes that determines whether or not a goalie is going to make a save on any given shot. I mean... you can test this basic fact yourself. You can take the best shooter in the game and the best goalie in the game and go into practice mode and take the same exact shot from the same exact spot on the ice over and over again and sometimes the goalie will save it, other times he won't. That in itself adds randomness to the game and unfortunately it's a kind of randomness that has to be in the game just so that there is a limit to the 100% go-to "glitch" shots that people hate so much.
Anyway.. that's my take on it. I really hate how often a simple goaltending AI mistake can ruin the game for a good player (or save the game for a below-average player). It seems with the new gameplay trailer that they are trying to remedy this somewhat but who knows how that'll actually turn out.
[Socair - edited swear filter]
Having the attributes use the range all the way to 0 would give us double the fidelity but it wouldn't change things too much. Skating time around the rink has to do with acceleration, agility, top end speed and the path actually taken so it isn't just a matter of setting a variable to one number and saying that would take a player a certain time every time. When we look at it right now, we trust that those setting our attributes are doing a good job in terms of the relative differences between each other and then we test the mechanic side against certain players.
So if we take a McDavid time around the rink in the fastest skater competition and get him skating without the puck in our game, following the path they take in the Skills Competition (which requires the nets to be moved in), he would be right in the ball park.
Also remember that with our game styles, we are tuning some things to be more or less forgiving depending on the length of periods we expect players to be playing as well. When the game is arcade, the game is far more forgiving than it is on Full Sim and sliders can be tuned at a detailed level beyond those as well. The attributes and game mechanics are the same across the game, it is just how they are tuned. The more arcade/forgiving the game is, the less room there is for variance where the more sim it is, the more room there is for subtle variance and the current attributes give us a lot of room to get that already.
Thank you for your answer .
Then if full sim is the most realistic, why use competitive sliders ?
Most players are happy playing shorter length periods for online than what Full Sim is setup for. Even competitive is too sim for some players but it is a good balance for online competitive play while still supporting the shorter periods.
However there is a momentum meter in this game that you cant see. That has been Confirmed. Even in their 18 trailer they say change the momentum of the game with a save. People refer to it as ice tilt or w/e.
It can cause a penalty, a last minute Goal or a sloppy goal past the goalie.
You don't really believe that all the goals that happen in the last 60 seconds happen by accident or skill? The meter is meant to keep games closer period. Lets be honest yes a group of LG NHL players are gonna beat a squad of rando's in drop in. How ever I been in plenty of games where it never should have been as close as it was.
The real problem is "momentum" is a zone you get in. 6 players in a game can get in a zone and have momentum. How ever it should not be artificially created. It does not need to be. Unless they are trying to keep less good players online? So players don't quit with a bad taste and never purchase the Games again because they are getting smashed on so bad.
Devs also confirmed momentum is not part of the game anymore.
This may just be me, but I'm all for a skill gap, competitive implies it will assist the other player if one player is that much stronger because then it isn't competitive ,it's just a walloping . In order to keep things competitive, things must be done which will ultimately ruin a skill gap.
I say we go to 5 minute periods, not four, last minute real . And we embrace the skill gap, especially in higher divisions.
Like all this assist stuff, the hints, feedback thing ,should be automatically disabled , and pass assist should be capped , when you are in division one play , it should be the best of the best in the most realistic hockey setting , or most simulated setting ....
This Game is supposed to be a hockey sim for that reason I 100% disagree with competitive, amongst other mentioned reasons , but that one should be enough ...
This dynamic difficulty or ice tilt can easily be a result of the game making itself competitive for all users ... Just humour me for a week NHL 19 is almost done , just for a week set the online gameplay slider to full sim , and embrace a full sim hockey game, that I thought this was supposed to be ...
I feel like you're misinterpreting the meaning of competitive in this context.
I'll give you several other reasons why this game tanks.
1. You are trying to make this game for casuals. Anyone who is a hockey fan is not a casual player. They live and breathe the sport. We played it almost every day as kids whether it was ice hockey in high school or even street hockey as a lot of us played in street leagues like me. EA, do you think for 1 second a competitive hardcore hockey fan and player want their skills dumbed down just so Little Johnny can be on my level ? You must be out of your minds if any competitive sports fan and player will allow that. That is a problem right there.
2. Goaltending in this game is horrific. It is like why even have goalies in your game. You totally insult great goalies of the NHL in your game. If I was Patrick Roy, Martin Brodeur, Dominick Hasek or even Billy Smith and I played your video game I would call you up personally and tell you how **** hurt I really am. EA totally disregards a goalies greatness in this game. You allow players in this game to be able to score atleast 10-15 goals in a game. That is ridiculous. Tell me how many times you see NHL games that are 10-5, 11-1, 7-8. It doesn't happen every day in the NHL but your video game it happens every day. A complete insult the great goalies of the NHL present and past. Make it tough to score. Make me sweat it out every game where it is like 3-2, 5-4 , 2-1, 1-0. Make players earn their goals. Gamers want great games that are competitive and fun. Anything that is too easy to do is boring.
3) You don't crack down on cheaters hard enough. You are so concerned with profitability that you completely disregard the integrity of the game. It does not matter how many times we report people for cheating it seems nothing gets done. I do not want to pay $60.00 a year for a game where I am constantly being lag switched and ip booted the majority of the time. It just is not fun and it is not worth a money investment. You need to do a much much greater job in this area. It isn't so much of losing a game that ticks people of in this game but it is more about how they lose in this game.
2. Exploits are in the game to allow people to overcome #1
Disgusting in my opinion.