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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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Dynamic difficulty is ruining versus play

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  • I'm still perplexed. On a wired connection. Your family members can't use Facebook. I can understand bit torrent or some heavy downloading program, but Facebook.

    Facebook.

    Those are the servers we are dealing with?

    Well the connection at my father's house isn't the greatest. When he goes into Facebook, my brother gets that stutter lag or the "fat" lag that people speak of. I don't think it has anything to do with the servers.

    Especially if it's VS or hut, which are p2p.
  • jake19ny wrote: »

    They have not answered the questions explaining specific things.

    From my perspective we haven't dodged any questions. Overall people don't want to hear the answers if it doesn't match their theories on this topic as it would then mean they have to take personal accountability. I can try and answer some specific questions you still have.

    I have heard everything from we make it harder for teams with weaker teams in HUT so they would feel they need to upgrade their teams to the thought that we make it easier for weaker teams so they don't quit and want to play more. We do our best with matchmaking to find you an opponent around your skill level that will also produce a good connection to play on. It all depends on who is searching at that given time how well that can work out and the more games you play, the more you will start to fit into a pocket that best represents your skill as we then have a bigger sample size of game outcomes to base your CR on.



  • NHLDev wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »

    They have not answered the questions explaining specific things.

    From my perspective we haven't dodged any questions. Overall people don't want to hear the answers if it doesn't match their theories on this topic as it would then mean they have to take personal accountability. I can try and answer some specific questions you still have.

    I have heard everything from we make it harder for teams with weaker teams in HUT so they would feel they need to upgrade their teams to the thought that we make it easier for weaker teams so they don't quit and want to play more. We do our best with matchmaking to find you an opponent around your skill level that will also produce a good connection to play on. It all depends on who is searching at that given time how well that can work out and the more games you play, the more you will start to fit into a pocket that best represents your skill as we then have a bigger sample size of game outcomes to base your CR on.



    I can’t speak for everyone else but the questions I have are the following.

    1) how come when playing against an individual with a weaker team, specifically slower rated skaters, do they seem to be much faster than your higher speed rated players? This is not a connectivity issue because I have a good connection and to suggest so would suggest that my connection coincidently would only be bad when playing weaker teams. I’ve been on the other end of this as well.

    2) How come when playing an individual with a weaker team you can give up only 7 shots on goal the whole game but 4 go in. These will be the weakest goals you’ve ever seen. The opponent will step over the line and shoot. The puck will float and your goalie will drop to his knees very early and make a weak attempt at a glove save while the puck floats over his shoulder. At the end of the game you dominated play, outshot your opponent 32-7 but lost 4-2. You could chalk this up to fluke or bad luck but it happens often and only when facing weaker teams. Again hard to attribute such a thing to connection.

    3) How come when facing an opponent with a weaker team the puck becomes glued to their stick and seems to avoid your own like the plague. You can sweep it, poke it, or make body contact but the puck will either not be dislodged or it immediately sucks on to one of his other players sticks. I’ve taken runs at opponents with big checkers (probably should be charging lol) and when I hit a smallet guy into the boards he should be flattened but instead you bounce off while they maintain puck possession. Also you can knock a guy to the ice but they somehow get up and take control of the puck again before your standing player can take control.

    There are more examples but these 3 are my biggest gripes. I’m not saying it has to be DDA but something is not right in these situations. This isn’t about winning or losing. When I get a good match up where this nonsense doesn’t happen for or against me this mode is extremely enjoyable win or lose.

    Thanks for taking the time to communicate with the community.
  • jake19ny wrote: »
    I can’t speak for everyone else but the questions I have are the following.

    1) how come when playing against an individual with a weaker team, specifically slower rated skaters, do they seem to be much faster than your higher speed rated players? This is not a connectivity issue because I have a good connection and to suggest so would suggest that my connection coincidently would only be bad when playing weaker teams. I’ve been on the other end of this as well.

    2) How come when playing an individual with a weaker team you can give up only 7 shots on goal the whole game but 4 go in. These will be the weakest goals you’ve ever seen. The opponent will step over the line and shoot. The puck will float and your goalie will drop to his knees very early and make a weak attempt at a glove save while the puck floats over his shoulder. At the end of the game you dominated play, outshot your opponent 32-7 but lost 4-2. You could chalk this up to fluke or bad luck but it happens often and only when facing weaker teams. Again hard to attribute such a thing to connection.

    3) How come when facing an opponent with a weaker team the puck becomes glued to their stick and seems to avoid your own like the plague. You can sweep it, poke it, or make body contact but the puck will either not be dislodged or it immediately sucks on to one of his other players sticks. I’ve taken runs at opponents with big checkers (probably should be charging lol) and when I hit a smallet guy into the boards he should be flattened but instead you bounce off while they maintain puck possession. Also you can knock a guy to the ice but they somehow get up and take control of the puck again before your standing player can take control.

    There are more examples but these 3 are my biggest gripes. I’m not saying it has to be DDA but something is not right in these situations. This isn’t about winning or losing. When I get a good match up where this nonsense doesn’t happen for or against me this mode is extremely enjoyable win or lose.

    Thanks for taking the time to communicate with the community.

    Before I go into these, I would be curious how you are validating a team being weaker. I really think a lot of your validations are a cross reference between that distinction and how you validate the acceptance of the actions that led to a win or loss.
  • jake19ny wrote: »

    2) How come when playing an individual with a weaker team... At the end of the game you dominated play, outshot your opponent 32-7 but lost 4-2.

    3) How come when facing an opponent with a weaker team the puck becomes glued to their stick and seems to avoid your own like the plague. You can sweep it, poke it, or make body contact but the puck will either not be dislodged or it immediately sucks on to one of his other players sticks.

    These are two contradictory questions. Are you dominating and losing or are you not able to get the puck away from the other team?

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    I can’t speak for everyone else but the questions I have are the following.

    1) how come when playing against an individual with a weaker team, specifically slower rated skaters, do they seem to be much faster than your higher speed rated players? This is not a connectivity issue because I have a good connection and to suggest so would suggest that my connection coincidently would only be bad when playing weaker teams. I’ve been on the other end of this as well.

    2) How come when playing an individual with a weaker team you can give up only 7 shots on goal the whole game but 4 go in. These will be the weakest goals you’ve ever seen. The opponent will step over the line and shoot. The puck will float and your goalie will drop to his knees very early and make a weak attempt at a glove save while the puck floats over his shoulder. At the end of the game you dominated play, outshot your opponent 32-7 but lost 4-2. You could chalk this up to fluke or bad luck but it happens often and only when facing weaker teams. Again hard to attribute such a thing to connection.

    3) How come when facing an opponent with a weaker team the puck becomes glued to their stick and seems to avoid your own like the plague. You can sweep it, poke it, or make body contact but the puck will either not be dislodged or it immediately sucks on to one of his other players sticks. I’ve taken runs at opponents with big checkers (probably should be charging lol) and when I hit a smallet guy into the boards he should be flattened but instead you bounce off while they maintain puck possession. Also you can knock a guy to the ice but they somehow get up and take control of the puck again before your standing player can take control.

    There are more examples but these 3 are my biggest gripes. I’m not saying it has to be DDA but something is not right in these situations. This isn’t about winning or losing. When I get a good match up where this nonsense doesn’t happen for or against me this mode is extremely enjoyable win or lose.

    Thanks for taking the time to communicate with the community.

    Before I go into these, I would be curious how you are validating a team being weaker. I really think a lot of your validations are a cross reference between that distinction and how you validate the acceptance of the actions that led to a win or loss.

    I’m going by the item make up of the team. For instance the Alumni cards and some loaner cards have extremely low speed and acceleration yet seem to be faster than say McKinnon who I believe is a 93 speed.
  • cup4blues wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »

    2) How come when playing an individual with a weaker team... At the end of the game you dominated play, outshot your opponent 32-7 but lost 4-2.

    3) How come when facing an opponent with a weaker team the puck becomes glued to their stick and seems to avoid your own like the plague. You can sweep it, poke it, or make body contact but the puck will either not be dislodged or it immediately sucks on to one of his other players sticks.

    These are two contradictory questions. Are you dominating and losing or are you not able to get the puck away from the other team?

    All things do not present at the same time in a game. In a game you dominate the goalie one comes into play sometimes. Other games the weaker team is just faster or have magnet puck.
  • d7jizktg2bnq.jpg

    Weaker team loses the game. And I want to point out that the opposing goalie made 3 amazing saves and I was only 12 min into the first period. I really wish I recorded but I forgot to push the share button...

    Anyways... @jake19ny, could you provide a video of the magnet puck? I've never encountered that. Are you chasing or are you bouncing off the player when trying to steal the puck? I'm just not sure what "magnet" means.
  • NHLDev
    1357 posts NHL Developer
    edited October 2018
    jake19ny wrote: »
    I’m going by the item make up of the team. For instance the Alumni cards and some loaner cards have extremely low speed and acceleration yet seem to be faster than say McKinnon who I believe is a 93 speed.

    I guess it depends on the actual Alumni players you are looking at. They range from high 90s to mid 70s when it comes to skating attributes.

    What does your last 10 games look like in terms of W/L and Score relative to the CR of your opponent? I have posted examples of my own before from online VS and find it interesting as I feel it shows that matchmaking and CR are fairly credible in gauging rank as well as shows that games play out relative to player ability fairly often. I have included the minutes played as that is important sometimes in judging true differential between players. 3-0 in 60 minutes is far different than 3-0 after 8 minutes.

    Here are the last ones that show up in my list:
    4-1 - 535 - 60:00
    5-4 - 512 - 60:00
    4-1 - 535 - 60:00
    3-0 - 743 - 59:01
    2-1 - 543 - 65:00
    5-0 - 343 - 21:23
    3-0 - 584 - 35:45
    1-2 - 601 - 60:00
    0-3 - 702 - 60:00
    2-1 - 533 - 60:00
    1-3 - 603 - 60:00
    6-5 - 557 - 64:29
    3-0 - 481 - 08:47
    5-4 - 602 - 61:05
    2-3 - 612 - 60:00
    4-3 - 623 - 65:00
    2-1 - 613 - 60:00
    3-0 - 457 - 59:50
    1-0 - 573 - 65:00
    5-0 - 563 - 30:47
    4-0 - 439 - 31:42
    3-0 - 522 - 38:32
    1-0 - 527 - 60:00
    5-4 - 645 - 64:48
    4-1 - 489 - 60:00

    If you look at one off games, I could have felt that a 512 player shouldn't score 4 goals against me as that doesn't usually happen but at the same time, since I was able to score 5 against them, a breakdown may show that individual player as being great offensively but just not very good defensively and maybe they lose all of their games with quite high scores and if they could tighten up their defense would possibly be a lot higher ranked.

    The other interesting thing is that my 4 losses in this stretch came within an 8 game window. It's possible I was falling into certain routines and getting less creative and those losses also came to CR players of 612, 603, 702 and 601. Although I have wins against players higher than that, they are usually close games that could have gone either way and my wins with bigger margins usually come against teams that are mid 500s or lower.

    Another interesting thing regarding your theories about it being due to the teams that are dressed. In this stretch, I had two games where I was the Canucks playing against the Stars, I have had a 5-0 DNF Win @ 21:23 played against a 343 CR player and a 3-0 Loss to a 702 player in full time.
    Post edited by NHLDev on
  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    jake19ny wrote: »
    I’m going by the item make up of the team. For instance the Alumni cards and some loaner cards have extremely low speed and acceleration yet seem to be faster than say McKinnon who I believe is a 93 speed.

    I guess it depends on the actual Alumni players you are looking at. They range from high 90s to mid 70s when it comes to skating attributes.

    What does your last 10 games look like in terms of W/L and Score relative to the CR of your opponent? I have posted examples of my own before from online VS and find it interesting as I feel it shows that matchmaking and CR are fairly credible in gauging rank as well as shows that games play out relative to player ability fairly often. I have included the minutes played as that is important sometimes in judging true differential between players. 3-0 in 60 minutes is far different than 3-0 after 8 minutes.

    Here are the last ones that show up in my list:
    4-1 - 535 - 60:00
    5-4 - 512 - 60:00
    4-1 - 535 - 60:00
    3-0 - 743 - 59:01
    2-1 - 543 - 65:00
    5-0 - 343 - 21:23
    3-0 - 584 - 35:45
    1-2 - 601 - 60:00
    0-3 - 702 - 60:00
    2-1 - 533 - 60:00
    1-3 - 603 - 60:00
    6-5 - 557 - 64:29
    3-0 - 481 - 08:47
    5-4 - 602 - 61:05
    2-3 - 612 - 60:00
    4-3 - 623 - 65:00
    2-1 - 613 - 60:00
    3-0 - 457 - 59:50
    1-0 - 573 - 65:00
    5-0 - 563 - 30:47
    4-0 - 439 - 31:42
    3-0 - 522 - 38:32
    1-0 - 527 - 60:00
    5-4 - 645 - 64:48
    4-1 - 489 - 60:00

    If you look at one off games, I could have felt that a 512 player shouldn't score 4 goals against me as that doesn't usually happen but at the same time, since I was able to score 5 against them, a breakdown may show that individual player as being great offensively but just not very good defensively and maybe they lose all of their games with quite high scores and if they could tighten up their defense would possibly be a lot higher ranked.

    The other interesting thing is that my 4 losses in this stretch came within an 8 game window. It's possible I was falling into certain routines and getting less creative and those losses also came to CR players of 612, 603, 702 and 601. Although I have wins against players higher than that, they are usually close games that could have gone either way and my wins with bigger margins usually come against teams that are mid 500s or lower.

    Another interesting thing regarding your theories about it being due to the teams that are dressed. In this stretch, I had two games where I was the Canucks playing against the Stars, I have had a 5-0 DNF Win @ 21:23 played against a 343 CR player and a 3-0 Loss to a 702 player in full time.

    First let me thank you again for addressing this. I’m well aware it is not a popular subject and usually deteriorates into ugly bickering. Fortunately, while there is disagreement on the matter, it has remained civil and that’s a credit to everyone taking part in the discussion.

    I’m aware there are some fast Alumni items but I’m aware of the ones that are slow and those are the ones I’m referring too. Another example I can give is as follows; I intercepted a cross ice point pass with McKinnon and took off on what should be a clear breakaway. My opponent controlling Chara (even the best Chara card available is slow) turned from a stationary position and caught up to McKinnon and broke up the play.

    As far as recent games I would have to go on and look. I definitely understand everything you have said and have been guilty of some of those things but overall this is not about winning or losing. I’ve played people clearly better than me and squeaked our a win and I’ve lost to terrible players because I’ve made mistakes. I’ve had many great games that were played well by both teams and I’ve won some and lost some. This is more about those specific things that happen in certain games under certain circumstances. It’s as if sometimes you are playing a totally different game with a totally different team. I’m totally aware of connection and I know exactly what happens when I have a bad one but these incidents, as I point out in my original questions, are not connection related.

    It’s frustrating when you lose as a result of it and it’s a hollow victory when you win as a result of it.

  • Even after the patch/update the game still has similar issues online. I also found another glitch/trick. Hold the A button while skating and it lets you turn quickly without losing the puck. Only with hybrid controls.
  • I won three straight in Gatorade but when I went back to Div 8 to try and win my first game there, I lost 3-0 (one empty netter at the end so 2-0 really) to a team I totally dominated: 75% Face Off wins, 10 minutes time on attack - 1 for him / her, 24 shots to 4. His / her net minder Johnny Bower saved every slap shot, rebound shot, cross crease one-timer like he was on speed! He may have been the legend version, but the rest of the team was just gold rare players of no great distinction so I don't think so.

    Post patch I thought things had levelled up, but only in Comp Seasons because my first game back in Div 8 this happened. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
  • Why is it that when someone isn’t as successful as they used to be in Ovp - it HAS to be ice tilt / momentum / dynamic difficulty? Why is it never, “maybe I’m not as good as this year’s game than last year’s game?”
  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Why is it that when someone isn’t as successful as they used to be in Ovp - it HAS to be ice tilt / momentum / dynamic difficulty? Why is it never, “maybe I’m not as good as this year’s game than last year’s game?”

    He said he dominated every aspect of the game and only allowed 4 shots on goal. When it happens once it’s bad luck when it happens every 4-5 games it’s aonetfing else......not sure how telling someone to get better at the game fits in that situation and it’s certainly not constructive or helpful
    Post edited by jake19ny on
  • jake19ny wrote: »
    Why is it that when someone isn’t as successful as they used to be in Ovp - it HAS to be ice tilt / momentum / dynamic difficulty? Why is it never, “maybe I’m not as good as this year’s game than last year’s game?”

    Guess you missed the part where he dominated every aspect of the game and only allowed 4 shots on goal. When it happens once it’s bad luck when it happens every 4-5 games it’s aonetfing else...

    But if it's happening that many times, then why does that have to be EAs fault? Why can't it be that it's something you as the player needs to improve on?

    If you're only winning by 1 goal during the other 4-5 games, then it may be something to do with how good those scoring opportunities are. If you're scoring 3+ per game and then start putting up goose eggs on 40 shots, then maybe you may have a case for something. Although it could just be a bad game.

    I'm currently on a 5 game losing streak. I was definitely the better team in 3 of the 5, but I gave up one too many shots in the slot. And then a stupid line change...I'll leave that for the other thread haha.
  • jake19ny wrote: »
    Why is it that when someone isn’t as successful as they used to be in Ovp - it HAS to be ice tilt / momentum / dynamic difficulty? Why is it never, “maybe I’m not as good as this year’s game than last year’s game?”

    Guess you missed the part where he dominated every aspect of the game and only allowed 4 shots on goal. When it happens once it’s bad luck when it happens every 4-5 games it’s aonetfing else...

    We just going to take his word for it? I have screen shots from games in ovp that doesnt describe what you are talking about. Ima go with kid on this one and say mr. Div 8 just isnt very good until he can provide me with evidence as to otherwise. To make the claim it happens every 4-5 games is an interesting stat considering I played 10 straight yesterday and it didnt happen once. How did you come to that number? Can you show us your last 10 games?
  • HoodHoppers
    836 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Even as somebody with a 10:1 win ratio which is somewhat simar to previous years, I find it stupidly frustrating winning games. I'm fortunate because there's a lot more terrible players playing online versus, but I can easily see playing somebody with skill and still dominating that you could lose those games easily. You have to be miles ahead (basically beginner VS elite), unless you're going for cheese plays all game, to actually win by a healthy margin.

    Also fatman lag is absolutely killer again, however now that I'm aware my woman can't use Facebook or else I won't be able to find any ai to pass to or have the ability to skate faster than a 5 year old kid, that'll really help in finding good games.
  • Even as somebody with a 10:1 win ratio which is somewhat simar to previous years, I find it stupidly frustrating winning games. I'm fortunate because there's a lot more terrible players playing online versus, but I can easily see playing somebody with skill and still dominating that you could lose those games easily. You have to be miles ahead (basically beginner VS elite), unless you're going for cheese plays all game, to actually win by a healthy margin.

    Also fatman lag is absolutely killer again, however now that I'm aware my woman can't use Facebook or else I won't be able to find any ai to pass to or have the ability to skate faster than a 5 year old kid, that'll really help in finding good games.

    Again, the Facebook thing is just if you have poor internet service. My wife runs Netflix and is on Facebook while I'm playing games and I don't have any issues. I do get that stutter lag every once in awhile though. Suspiciously, it only occurs when I'm in the offensive zone, but I have learned to play with it.
  • Instead of arguing over it why don’t we just wait and see what the Dev has to say? He’s been good enough to chime in and said he would answer the questions I’ve posted. The answers to those questions should put the debate to rest.
  • jake19ny wrote: »
    Instead of arguing over it why don’t we just wait and see what the Dev has to say? He’s been good enough to chime in and said he would answer the questions I’ve posted. The answers to those questions should put the debate to rest.

    Who's arguing? Ice tilt doesn't exist. There is most likely an explanation to every question being asked and/or video being posted. Whether it's faulty coding or poor play, the video will define it either way.

    I'm curious to seeing your recent games as well. I think that will give us a better idea of a pattern that is occurring.

    Anyways I'll try to answer your questions based on my perspective until the Dev gets back to you.

    1. In the McKinnon/Chara example you gave, how long was each player on the ice? If McKinnon was gassed and Chara had fresh legs, this makes complete sense to me. What are their differences in acceleration? Yes, Chara is big and cannot hit top speeds, but he is still quick on his feet. I'm just saying, there is not much to go on by simply asking why does this occur. We would need to see more context from the situation. Overall, I see a difference in speed. On occasion I may be caught, but it doesn't happen every time.

    2. The shot discrepancy can be explained many different ways. You could be someone who simply skates in and shoots. However, your great defensively and can just repeat the process multiple times.

    You could be someone who is great at keeping the puck in the offensive zones, however, still don't take the most opportune shots. I have noticed if you get to the slot, without someone challenging, the goals are easy to snipe if your good with the sticks. However, this depends on what player you are shooting with as well.

    3. I believe puck pickups still need to be worked on, but I don't see the "magnet" you speak of. Sometimes the puck can be held onto much easier if the defender misjudges the check. A graze when the forward is puck protecting will not result in puck loss.

    Poking the puck may be a little flukey at times, but if it's stick on stick, it shouldn't really get forced away too far, pending on the angle of course. Going straight to the other player is more coincidence than anything. I would try comparing how many times it goes to you vs the opponent in a single game. I bet you it doesn't favor one side as much as some may believe.
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