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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


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EA NHL Sales - End of Hockey Gaming?

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  • I’ve struggled with trying to play honestly.. Forza Horizon has taken most of my time. Drop ins aren’t fun and people I play club with are playing other games. I’ll still do my offline rosters which is always entertaining but online is a bore.

    Skating is crap, no commentary in drop ins and the lack of team uniforms makes everything feel stale and repetitive. Playing 1-2 games feels like you’ve spent all day playing. Same black on white jerseys, same style of play, etc..

  • I’ll always play nhl no matter what other games are currently out.

    If you need a fix for hockey no game will satisfy that except for nhl.
  • Love hockey...breath, eat, sleep, hockey. The 4 fundamentals of life. With that said, the boys and myself are done with NHL 19. I dont understand why this game has deviated from the beta so much. Its a completely different game after the tuner, and it just isnt enjoyable. Gone are the days of blowing a team out 6-1. Because when you get up by 2-3 goals the other team gets their phantom boost and pucks magically start to fly in your own net. Thanks for getting rid of the skill stick this year too. Its so slow that half the time on penalty shots you deke backhand to forehand to shoot and end up shooting on the back hand because your guy has stonehands and cant get the deke in before you've hit up on the stick. Goalies make ridiculous saves on give and go's...not just one timers. The LW will cross the puck to me, I'll send it back for him to onetime and the goalie stuffs us 99% of the time. Puck pickups seem just as broken as they've been since nhl 15. Hitting is completely trash after the updates. Players dont get punished for bad defensive positioning. I could go on and on. Fact is, I used to love playing NHL and so did my buds, but they've duped us again and its so frustrating.
  • I’ve struggled with trying to play honestly.. Forza Horizon has taken most of my time. Drop ins aren’t fun and people I play club with are playing other games. I’ll still do my offline rosters which is always entertaining but online is a bore.

    Skating is crap, no commentary in drop ins and the lack of team uniforms makes everything feel stale and repetitive. Playing 1-2 games feels like you’ve spent all day playing. Same black on white jerseys, same style of play, etc..

    I really had high hopes this year would be the year i'd return to the series. Its easier each year not to buy and not to play so I am now awaiting the year of praises and where it once again will be fun to play. The comment in bold reminds me how it felt to play the game a few years back and why i stopped buying it and why my club stopped buying it. Hopefully this will change.

    Cant help but wonder how much of these issues are relating to servers (fatman lag etc) although this year has a whole new level of issues with matchmaking.
  • Sinbin
    1324 posts Member
    WFWR26 wrote: »
    Love hockey...breath, eat, sleep, hockey. The 4 fundamentals of life. With that said, the boys and myself are done with NHL 19. I dont understand why this game has deviated from the beta so much. Its a completely different game after the tuner, and it just isnt enjoyable. Gone are the days of blowing a team out 6-1. Because when you get up by 2-3 goals the other team gets their phantom boost and pucks magically start to fly in your own net. Thanks for getting rid of the skill stick this year too. Its so slow that half the time on penalty shots you deke backhand to forehand to shoot and end up shooting on the back hand because your guy has stonehands and cant get the deke in before you've hit up on the stick. Goalies make ridiculous saves on give and go's...not just one timers. The LW will cross the puck to me, I'll send it back for him to onetime and the goalie stuffs us 99% of the time. Puck pickups seem just as broken as they've been since nhl 15. Hitting is completely trash after the updates. Players dont get punished for bad defensive positioning. I could go on and on. Fact is, I used to love playing NHL and so did my buds, but they've duped us again and its so frustrating.

    This is the kind of stuff that helps kill the game. The myths the community has made up has a lot of people believing in things that just aren't there. You have people believing in catch up logic, ice tilt, stealth changes, etc. In the end, the game has gotten harder and people don't adapt. They get mad because they blow a lead and blame the game when what can happen is their opponent figures out how to counter the strategy they're using and adjust their play. When a real world team is down, they're going to adjust how they play according to what their opponents are doing. In this game though, people just keep doing the same thing over and over again and get mad when it doesn't work. Then, they take to social media to blame catch up logic instead of take accountability. In today's society, many gamers can't handle that they aren't as good as they think they are. Instead of getting better, they blame the game.

    Skill is a very real factor. If you're blaming the game and not being accountable for your skill or lack thereof, you just aren't as good as you think you are.
  • sgiz1
    536 posts Member
    "In the end, the game has gotten harder and people don't adapt. "

    Harder?

    I will concede EA has made it harder to score good goals, but on the flip side EA has made it light years easier to score garbage goals. This was done on purpose to make things harder on the skilled players who try to set up good scoring opportunities while giving the lesser skilled players a way to score and keep up/compete.

    So what we are left with are one sided games in stats but even/toss up on the scoreboard.

    As someone else mentioned earlier, after playing a few games you feel like you've played all day, that is how stressful this game has become to play, especially when you are the one dominating but find yourself time and time again grinding to the last minute to win/lose by 1 goal.

    To summarize, good goals are harder to score and garbage goals are easier to score, this equalizes the playing field and produces closer games, this causes stress and frustration to play.
  • VeNOM2099
    2595 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    To summarize, good goals are harder to score and garbage goals are easier to score, this equalizes the playing field and produces closer games, this causes stress and frustration to play.

    That is the definition of UNCERTAINTY OF OUTCOME. Lower the skill gap by introducing gameplay elements that are outside of the user's control. So lower skilled players have a chance of competing vs higher skilled players.
    YouTube: VeNOM3099
    Twitch: twitch.tv/venom3099

  • sgiz1
    536 posts Member
    "To summarize, good goals are harder to score and garbage goals are easier to score, this equalizes the playing field and produces closer games, this causes stress and frustration to play."

    This yields the results EA was after because good players don't enter the offensive zone with the intent to score a garbage goal, so the good players don't get much benefit from the garbage goal side unless by accident, so the good players fall into EA's trap of cycling, passing, trying to get into the slot, etc. which will result in turnovers, and with the number of shots that miss the net, hit posts, etc. or goalie making highlight reel saves makes good goals harder to score.

    Don't get me wrong, taking high % shots will score more often than garbage goals, and better players will beat bad/avg. players most of the time anyways.

    But the results are in, good goals are harder to score and random chaos garbage goals by lesser skilled players throwing puck on net because of defensive pressure, etc. are finding its way into the net way too much allows them a way to score goals, keep games close, helps them compete.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    This is the kind of stuff that helps kill the game. The myths the community has made up has a lot of people believing in things that just aren't there. You have people believing in catch up logic, ice tilt, stealth changes, etc. In the end, the game has gotten harder and people don't adapt. They get mad because they blow a lead and blame the game when what can happen is their opponent figures out how to counter the strategy they're using and adjust their play. When a real world team is down, they're going to adjust how they play according to what their opponents are doing. In this game though, people just keep doing the same thing over and over again and get mad when it doesn't work. Then, they take to social media to blame catch up logic instead of take accountability. In today's society, many gamers can't handle that they aren't as good as they think they are. Instead of getting better, they blame the game.

    Skill is a very real factor. If you're blaming the game and not being accountable for your skill or lack thereof, you just aren't as good as you think you are.

    I don't believe there's any "ice tilt" or "catch-up logic" in the game. At least not in EASHL which is what I mostly play. What I do see though is a game where the mechanics can seem so inconsistent that it becomes frustrating to play. And for some people when these mechanics are inconsistent in a way that doesn't benefit them that frustration can lead to conspiratorial thinking.

    Take this clip for example. Two back to back plays. At one end the goalie makes a desperation save, the other team picks up the puck and at the other end the goalie is so far off his angle that a simple wrist shot from just inside the blue line goes in clean with room to spare.



    Or this one I posted in another topic where the defending player is rewarded for a terrible defensive play.



    Is this due to the game favoring one team over the other? No. But this kind of thing happens a lot. And it can lead to a lot of frustration when people start feeling like what gets rewarded is more random than it should be.
  • Sinbin
    1324 posts Member
    sgiz1 wrote: »
    "To summarize, good goals are harder to score and garbage goals are easier to score, this equalizes the playing field and produces closer games, this causes stress and frustration to play."

    This yields the results EA was after because good players don't enter the offensive zone with the intent to score a garbage goal, so the good players don't get much benefit from the garbage goal side unless by accident, so the good players fall into EA's trap of cycling, passing, trying to get into the slot, etc. which will result in turnovers, and with the number of shots that miss the net, hit posts, etc. or goalie making highlight reel saves makes good goals harder to score.

    Don't get me wrong, taking high % shots will score more often than garbage goals, and better players will beat bad/avg. players most of the time anyways.

    But the results are in, good goals are harder to score and random chaos garbage goals by lesser skilled players throwing puck on net because of defensive pressure, etc. are finding its way into the net way too much allows them a way to score goals, keep games close, helps them compete.

    Go in to practice mode. Throw 100 garbage shots on net from the blue line and see how many go in. Then do the same thing, but skate in to the slot, settle the puck and pick a corner. See how many you score then.
  • Sinbin
    1324 posts Member
    Sinbin wrote: »
    This is the kind of stuff that helps kill the game. The myths the community has made up has a lot of people believing in things that just aren't there. You have people believing in catch up logic, ice tilt, stealth changes, etc. In the end, the game has gotten harder and people don't adapt. They get mad because they blow a lead and blame the game when what can happen is their opponent figures out how to counter the strategy they're using and adjust their play. When a real world team is down, they're going to adjust how they play according to what their opponents are doing. In this game though, people just keep doing the same thing over and over again and get mad when it doesn't work. Then, they take to social media to blame catch up logic instead of take accountability. In today's society, many gamers can't handle that they aren't as good as they think they are. Instead of getting better, they blame the game.

    Skill is a very real factor. If you're blaming the game and not being accountable for your skill or lack thereof, you just aren't as good as you think you are.

    I don't believe there's any "ice tilt" or "catch-up logic" in the game. At least not in EASHL which is what I mostly play. What I do see though is a game where the mechanics can seem so inconsistent that it becomes frustrating to play. And for some people when these mechanics are inconsistent in a way that doesn't benefit them that frustration can lead to conspiratorial thinking.

    Take this clip for example. Two back to back plays. At one end the goalie makes a desperation save, the other team picks up the puck and at the other end the goalie is so far off his angle that a simple wrist shot from just inside the blue line goes in clean with room to spare.



    Or this one I posted in another topic where the defending player is rewarded for a terrible defensive play.



    Is this due to the game favoring one team over the other? No. But this kind of thing happens a lot. And it can lead to a lot of frustration when people start feeling like what gets rewarded is more random than it should be.

    In the second part of the first video, a decent human defender will stop that.

    Your second video has a bump from behind. Yeah, maybe those could be toned down a bit, but you also have the option to move the puck more instead of getting chased and hit.
  • PlayoffError
    232 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Sinbin wrote: »
    In the second part of the first video, a decent human defender will stop that.

    True, but that shot shouldn't be dangerous and wouldn't be if the goalie wasn't off his angle for no reason. It's the difference in goalie "effort" that's on display there, not a critique of the AI defense.
    Sinbin wrote: »
    Your second video has a bump from behind. Yeah, maybe those could be toned down a bit, but you also have the option to move the puck more instead of getting chased and hit.

    Look closer. The puck doesn't come loose due to a bump, it's a failed stick lift. It comes loose on the stick-on-stick contact that occurs on his "downswing" through my body.

  • This makes me happy. This game is the most infuriating game ever produced. Far from what was advertised. Skating is now the worst part of the game , which was supposed to be revamped. Shame
  • sgiz1
    536 posts Member
    "Go in to practice mode. Throw 100 garbage shots on net from the blue line and see how many go in. Then do the same thing, but skate in to the slot, settle the puck and pick a corner. See how many you score then. "

    You didn't think this thru. Garbage goals are throwing pucks into the crowd toward the net, deflections, rebounds, chaos. We are not talking clean goals.
  • Sinbin wrote: »
    WFWR26 wrote: »
    Love hockey...breath, eat, sleep, hockey. The 4 fundamentals of life. With that said, the boys and myself are done with NHL 19. I dont understand why this game has deviated from the beta so much. Its a completely different game after the tuner, and it just isnt enjoyable. Gone are the days of blowing a team out 6-1. Because when you get up by 2-3 goals the other team gets their phantom boost and pucks magically start to fly in your own net. Thanks for getting rid of the skill stick this year too. Its so slow that half the time on penalty shots you deke backhand to forehand to shoot and end up shooting on the back hand because your guy has stonehands and cant get the deke in before you've hit up on the stick. Goalies make ridiculous saves on give and go's...not just one timers. The LW will cross the puck to me, I'll send it back for him to onetime and the goalie stuffs us 99% of the time. Puck pickups seem just as broken as they've been since nhl 15. Hitting is completely trash after the updates. Players dont get punished for bad defensive positioning. I could go on and on. Fact is, I used to love playing NHL and so did my buds, but they've duped us again and its so frustrating.

    This is the kind of stuff that helps kill the game. The myths the community has made up has a lot of people believing in things that just aren't there. You have people believing in catch up logic, ice tilt, stealth changes, etc. In the end, the game has gotten harder and people don't adapt. They get mad because they blow a lead and blame the game when what can happen is their opponent figures out how to counter the strategy they're using and adjust their play. When a real world team is down, they're going to adjust how they play according to what their opponents are doing. In this game though, people just keep doing the same thing over and over again and get mad when it doesn't work. Then, they take to social media to blame catch up logic instead of take accountability. In today's society, many gamers can't handle that they aren't as good as they think they are. Instead of getting better, they blame the game.

    Skill is a very real factor. If you're blaming the game and not being accountable for your skill or lack thereof, you just aren't as good as you think you are.

    I agree and disagree. I certainly think a part of you is right however what I highly disagree with is what we call skill in this game. I know how to score in this game. But scoring in this game is the worst representation of goals that actually go in in comparison to real life probably in over 10 years in this game.

    Hockey iq helps to develop plays, for sure, which I really love, but is a far cry for scoring goals. Look at penalty shots for example. Some of the nicest moves that would work in real life don't ever go in on the ai goalies in this game. Oh but cutting in, letting off the gas and shooting short side with no lateral speed works, or holding it out on your backhand while cutting in against the natural grain of your handedness and then some how still releasing off the backhand goes top corner (super realistic), and doing the Forsberg from literally the worst angle towards the net goes in. One timers are a low percentage play unless it's a 2 on 0. Tap ins aren't tap ins because superman is faster than a bullet pass. Shots aimed top corner from the slot? Depends. Did you pull it out on your forehand and go shortside? Shouldn't have gone far side like an idiot and reduce your chances from 20% down to 5%.

    Giving up the bad spots on the ice is literally the worst thing you can do in real hockey. In this game, it hurts you maybe 10% of the time. But defend those positions on the ice well, and you're about the same percentage to get scored against anyways.

    Literally analyze how many times you think to yourself "That probably should have been a goal against me". You'll say it far more than you ever have. I don't allow those opportunities much in VS, but maybe once every couple games I say that. In previous years they'd usually just go in.

    I've told them what they need to do to change goaltending and shooting in order for players to feel a sense of reward for playing good hockey. I would even guarantee if people didn't like the tuner, then I'd take a permaban from these forums so they don't have to read my annoying posts anymore. I'd literally sign that contract. But they want to play to the casuals.

    Which is hilarious, because casuals won't be able to score in this game much so they'll hate the experience anyways. My tuner set would be the best of both worlds, and also create a simulation experience.
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    "In the end, the game has gotten harder and people don't adapt. "

    Harder?

    I will concede EA has made it harder to score good goals, but on the flip side EA has made it light years easier to score garbage goals. This was done on purpose to make things harder on the skilled players who try to set up good scoring opportunities while giving the lesser skilled players a way to score and keep up/compete.

    So what we are left with are one sided games in stats but even/toss up on the scoreboard.

    As someone else mentioned earlier, after playing a few games you feel like you've played all day, that is how stressful this game has become to play, especially when you are the one dominating but find yourself time and time again grinding to the last minute to win/lose by 1 goal.

    To summarize, good goals are harder to score and garbage goals are easier to score, this equalizes the playing field and produces closer games, this causes stress and frustration to play.

    I don't follow your logic here.

    you say skilled players have a harder time scoring goals, but EA made it easier for lesser skilled people to score....

    Hmmm, how does that make sense to you? If lesser skilled can score more, what prevents "skilled" players from not scoring???
  • RayFinkle1515
    351 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    I like how, evidently, EA NHL programmers are non competent enough to program a decent NHL game, but also clever and smart enough to create secret programming logic to increase or decrease the level of play based on specific situations. Are they really smart? Or really bad? I can't tell the difference anymore.
  • "In this game though, people just keep doing the same thing over and over again and get mad when it doesn't work. "

    Funny thing is the people who do this exact thing win way more games than they should.

    Example: Played a guy last night in back to back games. LITERALLY, every time he entered the offensive zone he would skate directly to the corner at the goal line and stop and start until either A. the AI defenseman on the back door decided he no longer wanted to play hockey and allowed a tap in goal or B. I was forced to switch to the back door defenseman to guard against the cross crease and he would manipulate around the AI pressuring and try to come in and shoot SS glitch from bottom of circle. He did not cycle the puck, he did not make use of D men on the point. Before you try to rebuttal with changing my D strat, I was playing with protect the net on for all 6 periods. Anything else and my players are even more out of position than they are on every other play, chasing the puck around like mites. I had a higher passing %, more shots (and quality shots at that), more TOA and won over 65% of faceoffs. I lost both of these games in OT. Its SICKENING the way this game rewards players who have ZERO hockey sense and a complete lack of creativity.
  • sgiz1 wrote: »
    "In the end, the game has gotten harder and people don't adapt. "

    Harder?

    I will concede EA has made it harder to score good goals, but on the flip side EA has made it light years easier to score garbage goals. This was done on purpose to make things harder on the skilled players who try to set up good scoring opportunities while giving the lesser skilled players a way to score and keep up/compete.

    So what we are left with are one sided games in stats but even/toss up on the scoreboard.

    As someone else mentioned earlier, after playing a few games you feel like you've played all day, that is how stressful this game has become to play, especially when you are the one dominating but find yourself time and time again grinding to the last minute to win/lose by 1 goal.

    To summarize, good goals are harder to score and garbage goals are easier to score, this equalizes the playing field and produces closer games, this causes stress and frustration to play.

    I don't follow your logic here.

    you say skilled players have a harder time scoring goals, but EA made it easier for lesser skilled people to score....

    Hmmm, how does that make sense to you? If lesser skilled can score more, what prevents "skilled" players from not scoring???

    I think what he meant was the skill gap isnt as large as it used to be. A high hockey iq player will cycle and look for high quality shots while a newer player will more often just put pucks on net from anywhere. The "garbage" goals have a high percentage of going in which shrinks the skill gap. An elite player will still win most of his games but itll be much more sweaty and grindy then in the previous gen.
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