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Too many tripping penalties

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  • Kuus2 wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I think the more people look at why they got a tripping or slashing instead of just rushing to blame ea, the better off everyone will be. Accountability people. It's fun for me to be on the PP all game.

    That is not what makes a competitive video game fun for me. That’s part of why the ”fun” is slowly melting away for me, there are no evenly matched games. Either I just have PP the whole time since opponent keeps tripping me, or the opponent just slides around my Ds at will since pokes and stick lifts are now high risk plays. And as I said earlier body checking does nothing.

    Poke check and stick lift spamming isnt fun to me at all either. It was probably the worst thing about 18, players not being punished for poor positional play bailed out by the nonstop poke spamming. I really believe the only people still complaining about this are the ones who panic when they dont have the puck and think they need to get it back right away instead of closing off passing lanes and staying between the puck carrier and the net.

    I'm happy with the direction taken by the dev team in punishing poor poking and stick lift. I hope the trend continues.
  • Kuus2
    213 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    flyextacy wrote: »
    Poke check and stick lift spamming isnt fun to me at all either. It was probably the worst thing about 18, players not being punished for poor positional play bailed out by the nonstop poke spamming. I really believe the only people still complaining about this are the ones who panic when they dont have the puck and think they need to get it back right away instead of closing off passing lanes and staying between the puck carrier and the net.

    I'm happy with the direction taken by the dev team in punishing poor poking and stick lift. I hope the trend continues.

    Not once did I say anything about spamming pokes or stick lifts. Currently all it takes is for the opponent moving their R-stick to the other side and my poke or stick lift ends up in a penalty. Also stick lifting from off angles are too unpredictable, penalties occur even if stick is clearly on the side I am on and in reach.

    These deter me from using those almost at all, which only leaves DSS, as I have almost full control of it. That is not enough to effectively defend.

    Few penalties I do not agree within a game usually cause me to get frustrated, which leads me to more penalties.
  • Good day:
    It had become recently impossible to play défense in the game without receiving penalties. He poke check is virtually unusable. You are left with watching your opponent skate around you or to go to the penalty box. That kills the integrity and balance of the game.
    This has to be fixed ASAP ?!

    Regards,

    P.S.: in addition, a second or third rebound should score, but never do...players instead pass backward to generate a one time, which would be in reality ridiculous most of the time.

    Regards,
  • Kuus2 wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    Poke check and stick lift spamming isnt fun to me at all either. It was probably the worst thing about 18, players not being punished for poor positional play bailed out by the nonstop poke spamming. I really believe the only people still complaining about this are the ones who panic when they dont have the puck and think they need to get it back right away instead of closing off passing lanes and staying between the puck carrier and the net.

    I'm happy with the direction taken by the dev team in punishing poor poking and stick lift. I hope the trend continues.

    Not once did I say anything about spamming pokes or stick lifts. Currently all it takes is for the opponent moving their R-stick to the other side and my poke or stick lift ends up in a penalty. Also stick lifting from off angles are too unpredictable, penalties occur even if stick is clearly on the side I am on and in reach.

    These deter me from using those almost at all, which only leaves DSS, as I have almost full control of it. That is not enough to effectively defend.

    Few penalties I do not agree with in a game usually cause me to get frustrated, which leads me to more penalties.

    Didnt say you did, but if they nerf poke and stick lift penalties like you're suggesting that's what itll turn into ala nhl 18.
  • HockeyCityUSA
    551 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    Kuus2 wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    Poke check and stick lift spamming isnt fun to me at all either. It was probably the worst thing about 18, players not being punished for poor positional play bailed out by the nonstop poke spamming. I really believe the only people still complaining about this are the ones who panic when they dont have the puck and think they need to get it back right away instead of closing off passing lanes and staying between the puck carrier and the net.

    I'm happy with the direction taken by the dev team in punishing poor poking and stick lift. I hope the trend continues.

    Not once did I say anything about spamming pokes or stick lifts. Currently all it takes is for the opponent moving their R-stick to the other side and my poke or stick lift ends up in a penalty. Also stick lifting from off angles are too unpredictable, penalties occur even if stick is clearly on the side I am on and in reach.

    These deter me from using those almost at all, which only leaves DSS, as I have almost full control of it. That is not enough to effectively defend.

    Few penalties I do not agree within a game usually cause me to get frustrated, which leads me to more penalties.

    Shouldn't the offensive player have the ability to counter the stick lift? If they can anticipate the lift, wouldn't they move their stick to prevent it from happening?

    As far as being unpredictable, I agree. I wonder if discipline really plays a factor in this game. In the past I feel like it did, but I haven't tested if it were true in this year's.
  • Offensive players should have a counter. Cause really that’s what fighting for the puck is. A series of pokes, sweeps, and lifts where if you have the puck it’s a matter of cupping it and using the body to protect it. We don’t go into corners and shove each other until someone decides to get the puck. Most attempts should be inconsequential, perfect strikes to the puck or skate blade should get their respective results and there should be some grey areas.

    Again. It’s a contact sport and we aren’t soccer players. The games solid...just tune this up... C’mon!
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Poke checking and stick lifts need to be punished as they are right now. My issue is that sometimes good pokes and stick lifts are also getting punished quite often:

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/venom3o99/video/62353075

    Not only was that a GOOD stick lift that gets punished, it got punished with a PENALTY SHOT when the opponent was CLEARLY not on a breakaway.

    Also, every little bump along the boards now is being called for boarding/hitting from behind. But that's a product of the skating engine reverting to the BALLERINA MOVEMENT skating from years past. Now players are simply weaving back and forth fishing for penalties because they know if you don't poke or try to stick lift them to get a penalty, well you're gonna try to hit them and get a penalty call anyways.

    And as happy as I am that stick lifts and pokes are getting called, was there REALLY a need to also make DSS sweeps make opponent's go flying like they got sniped with a .50 cal? Holy crap, dude! Can we have a least one good Defensive option that can't be spammed like a doofus? Pretty please?
  • Kuus2 wrote: »
    The tripping penalties do not bother me, but the change to stick lifts absolutely neutered my defence. Opponents without fail just skate through my defence as I try to wiggle at them with the DSS. That combined with everyone slightly turning away from my body checks makes me absolutely garbage defensively.

    Also since I am not a fan of spamming dekes, most of my losses of puck are caused by overpowered AI players just skating behind me and magically knocking the puck away.

    That is literally hockey though. You can't just steal the puck at will you gotta win position and force them outside til they make a mistake.

    Getting a lucky poke happens but it's not like players just poke the puck off all game in real life. You lose speed when trying to poke so they burn you.
  • Kuus2
    213 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    CMBDeadly wrote: »
    That is literally hockey though. You can't just steal the puck at will you gotta win position and force them outside til they make a mistake.

    Getting a lucky poke happens but it's not like players just poke the puck off all game in real life. You lose speed when trying to poke so they burn you.

    As long as people in Offence can dance around(slightly move away) my body checks, I should be able to have some move to counter them.
    Post edited by Kuus2 on
  • jake19ny
    688 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    All the people using the same response as they do for everything, “get better at the game” are kidding themselves. You guys aren’t defense masters you are just doing it less. I’m not taking too many penalties either but when you take a good angle to an opponent and go to poke the puck but your stick randomly goes to the players skates instead....you have no control over that. I have chased guys down, wait until I’m a stride ahead of them and go for the puck but the stick goes right for the feet. not every time because it’s random.....explain a well timed stick lift? Love to hear that one....a stick lift is a stick lift and they randomly get called for slashing. The more you attempt these defensive moves the more likely you are to draw penalties. If you spam it prepare to spend the whole game in box. It’s sinply a flawed game mechanic EA needs to find a balance in. I thought the Beta with the Beta tuner was near perfect. Pokes from behind resulted in a lot of penalties and rightfully so while pokes and sweeps wihile back skating with an opponent coming at you were rightfully more successful.
  • The solution to this should have been simple. Just make pokes less effective from non optimal position. Pokes directly from behind should warrant more penalties. 50/50 positioning = less effectiveness and some penalties. Good positioning = highly effective with no penalties.
  • The solution to this should have been simple. Just make pokes less effective from non optimal position. Pokes directly from behind should warrant more penalties. 50/50 positioning = less effectiveness and some penalties. Good positioning = highly effective with no penalties.

    They tried that. People got mad because they were taking too many penalties and they had to tweak it. The solution should have been to increase the recovery frames of both the poke and stick lift and reduce the players' lateral acceleration so that puck handlers can't just weave in an out of "penalty" range while still retaining full puck control and relative speed/agility.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    The solution to this should have been simple. Just make pokes less effective from non optimal position. Pokes directly from behind should warrant more penalties. 50/50 positioning = less effectiveness and some penalties. Good positioning = highly effective with no penalties.

    They tried that. People got mad because they were taking too many penalties and they had to tweak it. The solution should have been to increase the recovery frames of both the poke and stick lift and reduce the players' lateral acceleration so that puck handlers can't just weave in an out of "penalty" range while still retaining full puck control and relative speed/agility.

    Remind me again when they tried Richard's solution?
    Post edited by TheMajjam on
  • VeNOM2099
    3178 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    The solution to this should have been simple. Just make pokes less effective from non optimal position. Pokes directly from behind should warrant more penalties. 50/50 positioning = less effectiveness and some penalties. Good positioning = highly effective with no penalties.

    They tried that. People got mad because they were taking too many penalties and they had to tweak it. The solution should have been to increase the recovery frames of both the poke and stick lift and reduce the players' lateral acceleration so that puck handlers can't just weave in an out of "penalty" range while still retaining full puck control and relative speed/agility.

    Remind me again when they tried Richard's solution?

    When the game first came out (and in the BETA). Poke checks were much less effective and accurate. If you poked from behind or bad angle, you would always get a penalty. After the patch + tuner, they tweaked them to be slightly more accurate. Problem is with the tweaks to the skating engine, now people are simply spinning around in place trying to fish for penalties as the poke checks ALWAYS seek the puck.

    Even if you have the correct angle for the poke or the stick lift, players found out that if you stay in a constant "wiggle", more often than not you can draw a ton of penalties. That's why people have been asking for them to just go back to the way it was during the BETA or before the patch/tuner.

  • VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    The solution to this should have been simple. Just make pokes less effective from non optimal position. Pokes directly from behind should warrant more penalties. 50/50 positioning = less effectiveness and some penalties. Good positioning = highly effective with no penalties.

    They tried that. People got mad because they were taking too many penalties and they had to tweak it. The solution should have been to increase the recovery frames of both the poke and stick lift and reduce the players' lateral acceleration so that puck handlers can't just weave in an out of "penalty" range while still retaining full puck control and relative speed/agility.

    Remind me again when they tried Richard's solution?

    When the game first came out (and in the BETA). Poke checks were much less effective and accurate. If you poked from behind or bad angle, you would always get a penalty. After the patch + tuner, they tweaked them to be slightly more accurate. Problem is with the tweaks to the skating engine, now people are simply spinning around in place trying to fish for penalties as the poke checks ALWAYS seek the puck.

    Even if you have the correct angle for the poke or the stick lift, players found out that if you stay in a constant "wiggle", more often than not you can draw a ton of penalties. That's why people have been asking for them to just go back to the way it was during the BETA or before the patch/tuner.

    I agree with some of what you said but the beta I felt was far more accurate with the poke check. If it was exposed I'd get it 90% of the time. Now I feel it has a 60% chance.
  • TheMajjam
    794 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    The solution to this should have been simple. Just make pokes less effective from non optimal position. Pokes directly from behind should warrant more penalties. 50/50 positioning = less effectiveness and some penalties. Good positioning = highly effective with no penalties.

    They tried that. People got mad because they were taking too many penalties and they had to tweak it. The solution should have been to increase the recovery frames of both the poke and stick lift and reduce the players' lateral acceleration so that puck handlers can't just weave in an out of "penalty" range while still retaining full puck control and relative speed/agility.

    Remind me again when they tried Richard's solution?

    When the game first came out (and in the BETA). Poke checks were much less effective and accurate. If you poked from behind or bad angle, you would always get a penalty. After the patch + tuner, they tweaked them to be slightly more accurate. Problem is with the tweaks to the skating engine, now people are simply spinning around in place trying to fish for penalties as the poke checks ALWAYS seek the puck.

    Even if you have the correct angle for the poke or the stick lift, players found out that if you stay in a constant "wiggle", more often than not you can draw a ton of penalties. That's why people have been asking for them to just go back to the way it was during the BETA or before the patch/tuner.

    I agree with some of what you said but the beta I felt was far more accurate with the poke check. If it was exposed I'd get it 90% of the time. Now I feel it has a 60% chance.

    The beta poke was absolutely terrible. When you're getting sure tripping penalties for going down to block a shot and touching the shooter, that's wrong. Nevermind that you were picking up penalties for touching puck first, then body. Or having your stick clip through another for a penalty. In actual hockey, using your stick defensively and or trying to poke the puck results in about a 10% chance of a penalty. If that! Mostly because people who play hockey can, you know, skate. Do you guys play or even. Watch hockey games?
  • Follisimo
    1029 posts Member
    edited October 2018
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    The solution to this should have been simple. Just make pokes less effective from non optimal position. Pokes directly from behind should warrant more penalties. 50/50 positioning = less effectiveness and some penalties. Good positioning = highly effective with no penalties.

    They tried that. People got mad because they were taking too many penalties and they had to tweak it. The solution should have been to increase the recovery frames of both the poke and stick lift and reduce the players' lateral acceleration so that puck handlers can't just weave in an out of "penalty" range while still retaining full puck control and relative speed/agility.

    Remind me again when they tried Richard's solution?

    When the game first came out (and in the BETA). Poke checks were much less effective and accurate. If you poked from behind or bad angle, you would always get a penalty. After the patch + tuner, they tweaked them to be slightly more accurate. Problem is with the tweaks to the skating engine, now people are simply spinning around in place trying to fish for penalties as the poke checks ALWAYS seek the puck.

    Even if you have the correct angle for the poke or the stick lift, players found out that if you stay in a constant "wiggle", more often than not you can draw a ton of penalties. That's why people have been asking for them to just go back to the way it was during the BETA or before the patch/tuner.

    I agree with some of what you said but the beta I felt was far more accurate with the poke check. If it was exposed I'd get it 90% of the time. Now I feel it has a 60% chance.

    The beta poke was absolutely terrible. When you're getting sure tripping penalties for going down to block a shot and touching the shooter, that's wrong. Nevermind that you were picking up penalties for touching puck first, then body. Or having your stick clip through another for a penalty. In actual hockey, using your stick defensively and or trying to poke the puck results in about a 10% chance of a penalty. If that! Mostly because people who play hockey can, you know, skate. Do you guys play or even. Watch hockey games?

    Well players also don't poke as much as people do in the game. Also players in real life that poke aren't skating stride for stride. They actually stop skating unless for that lunge desperation poke which if missed results in them completely left in the dust.

    I mean I'd love to get on the ice with some of these devs and ask them to poke the puck from me from behind while I'm straight lining and see how well that works out for them. Chances are they would be left in the dust much like every single NHLer does to their opponents from behind when they miss a poke from behind.

    If this game was built with the mindset of Rocket League then people with true skill would always beat the lesser skilled people. I'm average in Rocket League and when I play with some of my friends who are Champ 1,2 (high rank) the competition blows me away because I'm just not at that level.

  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Sinbin wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    There's just too many penalties altogether. These games shouldn't last as long as they are because of penalties. The AIs are taking just as many, how about you guys tell them to adjust.

    I'm not seeing AI being even remotely close to taking more penalties. At least not in EASHL and HUT. When you play with people that know how to poke, games flow pretty nicely.

    It's not about my team anymore. If my team takes 1 or 2 penalties per game, and the other teams take 5 or 6, you're right back to square one with a slow, penalty-laden video game. I am of the opinion that EA made the game the way they did to bring in more casual, possibly new blood to the game. However, even though I know my own skill it doesn't mean the game doesn't continue to be ruined by those who don't know (and don't adjust) to the mechanics.

    Adding more penalties does not make the game more casual. It makes it more skill based which is harder for casual players.
  • Sinbin
    1331 posts Member
    Kuus2 wrote: »
    flyextacy wrote: »
    I think the more people look at why they got a tripping or slashing instead of just rushing to blame ea, the better off everyone will be. Accountability people. It's fun for me to be on the PP all game.

    That is not what makes a competitive video game fun for me. That’s part of why the ”fun” is slowly melting away for me, there are no evenly matched games. Either I just have PP the whole time since opponent keeps tripping me, or the opponent just slides around my Ds at will since pokes and stick lifts are now high risk plays. And as I said earlier body checking does nothing.

    Body checking works just fine. There are multiple ways to defend. You're not adapting and raising your skill at using them. Pokes, stick lifts, defensive skill stick, hits and positioning are all very valid ways to defend. Knowing how to use them sets apart the better players from the weaker ones.
  • I don't mind defence right now, after I adjusted to stick-lifting. It's funny how people in EASHL stil trust in dangling the puck to the side and gliding circling etc. - just like in NHL18 - but now I can just hit them and dislodge the puck. I mean, dangling still works up to a point, but that's it. There's no protective buble anymore, at least not so much. It can be hard to hit a seven foot power forward of course. :|
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