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And just like that...the optimism faded

Replies

  • HoodHoppers
    1472 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    I don't understand this quote...


    "It is not a poorly functioning game if highly skilled players score from high % scoring areas while facing a defense that doesn't contest their shots in an effective way."

    So hypothetically speaking, if a snap shot from just entering the zone past the blue line resulted in a goal majority of the time, and you didn't contest that shot, the game isn't poorly functioning?

    What if it were shots from behind the net? What if they went in at an alarming rate? Should we not allow shots from behind the net because that's the game ea wants to play? Because they can't make realistic goaltenders?

    This is complete nonsense when we're relating this to a real life sport.
  • LeFury_27
    203 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    The "highly skilled players" are so biased towards shooters you would think NHL goalies are blind. They never give credit to NHL goalies. Often in the NHL now the goalies make sometimes 35-40+ saves in a game and some of the saves they make are unreal.

    But we are supposed to believe this garbage about high scoring areas being 30ft out on a NHL goalie with no screen.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1297 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    I don't understand this quote...


    "It is not a poorly functioning game if highly skilled players score from high % scoring areas while facing a defense that doesn't contest their shots in an effective way."

    So hypothetically speaking, if a snap shot from just entering the zone past the blue line resulted in a goal majority of the time, and you didn't contest that shot, the game isn't poorly functioning?

    It doesn't result in a goal a 'majority' of the time. The rate of success in the scenario you've described is grossly over exaggerated on these forums.

    However, as I've pointed out in the evidence provided in this thread - a lot of the blame rests on defensive play. Not taking ownership of poor defense will result in some goals being scored more often on you than you'd like. That's just cold hard truth.
    What if it were shots from behind the net? What if they went in at an alarming rate? Should we not allow shots from behind the net because that's the game ea wants to play? Because they can't make realistic goaltenders?

    Should EA then program the game so that shots from a certain area are no longer allowed to cross the goal line, no matter the circumstances? Then you begin to chip away at the organic nature in which goals (for the most part) are generated.



  • The only way to enact any kind of change at this point is to not buy the game. It’s very clear that the current dev team is capable (see beta tuner) but completely out of touch with their player base (see post beta tuners).

    Unfortunately I can’t sell my digital copy but this is the last straw for me after loyally playing this series since 1995. If the beta is good next year I’ll wait until Black Friday to ensure I don’t get duped again.

    you can actually get a refund on it, takes like 5 minutes. go to xbox.com and fire up the chat with their support team, then tell them you're getting an error that the game says you need to be online to play. i did this for destiny 2 and got my 106 bones back. as long as you've never done a refund before they should honor it.
  • NHLDev
    1677 posts EA NHL Developer
    Should EA then program the game so that shots from a certain area are no longer allowed to cross the goal line, no matter the circumstances? Then you begin to chip away at the organic nature in which goals (for the most part) are generated.
    We could also handle this organically under the same methodology that we currently tune the game but there are knock ons to that as well -- for example, people feeling they aren't rewarded enough for good chances or that the game feels more random. We already hear people say these things under the current tuning (in regards to missing the net or goalies robbing them) so there is already a skill gap in the execution and getting time and space to settle, etc.

    If a goalies worst possible delay is decreased for example, you will see less goals from distance but since we are talking the difference of a frame in most cases, it probably means lowering the rate of all times the goalie is late by a frame so a lot of great chances in the slot are diminished as well.

    So then when you get to a competitive game where a player doesn't give up any shots in close against an opponent that gives them two clean shots from the slot, stuck in a 0-0 game, where right now, you would hope at the worst it would be 2-1 or in most cases 2-0

    If it were easy to tune goalies, we would have been done long ago but it is something we never stop looking at. Right now, we are looking at short side more than we are looking at the shots from the top of the circles or screen effects as for the most part those are defendable and encouraging manual defense to get a stick or body in to disrupt a shot is a good thing overall.

    In a perfect world, we could minimize a few of the weaker goals but when you are dealing with single frame differences, it becomes a very fine line. In a couple of the videos shown, the goalie was late by a frame or two on the screen and he was also late by a frame on the deflection reaction but just got a piece of it with his glove. This comes down to the speed of the shot on that one screen and the speed taken off during the deflection. A few mph difference, or a little less screen and both those chances go the other way. As always, not making any excuses for it, just trying to shed some light into what is going on there and how fine of a line it can be. You move that fine line and a lot of things that are working for the game's balance then shift as well.

    Appreciate seeing the examples and comments from everyone though as it allows us to take more perspectives than our own into consideration as we continue to look at things.


  • It is not a poorly functioning game if highly skilled players score from high % scoring areas while facing a defense that doesn't contest their shots in an effective way.

    @KidShowtime1867 c'mon man - an uncontested wrister, between the blue line and top of the circle, while gliding towards the boards is NOT a high % scoring area.
  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1297 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    It is not a poorly functioning game if highly skilled players score from high % scoring areas while facing a defense that doesn't contest their shots in an effective way.

    @KidShowtime1867 c'mon man - an uncontested wrister, between the blue line and top of the circle, while gliding towards the boards is NOT a high % scoring area.

    I agree with you. However - that doesn't mean that goals should never go in from that spot. Also, what goes 'gliding towards the boards' have to do with anything? Do you mean the player angles himself so the shot is cross-body and against the grain? Sure, he faces the boards to get that angle - but saying 'while gliding towards the boards' implies the player was unrealistically facing the boards or some other odd angle.. and that's just not the case:

    NXsG3mV.png


    Again - I feel that the success rate of that shot (between blue line and top of the faceoff circle) is being grossly exaggerated.
  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.
  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?
  • KidShowtime1867
    1297 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?

    There's no tension on my side lol

    High % shots - come on now - we all know where those come from:

    nvIzUPC.jpg

    This area increases greatly with poor defensive play. So, if you're asking whether or not NHL 19 has a larger area of spots where goals go in more often - that's absolutely true due to the lack of people defending those shots based on the idea that they feel it shouldn't go in.




  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?

    There's no tension on my side lol

    High % shots - come on now - we all know where those come from:

    nvIzUPC.jpg

    This area increases greatly with poor defensive play. So, if you're asking whether or not NHL 19 has a larger area of spots where goals go in more often - that's absolutely true due to the lack of people defending those shots based on the idea that they feel it shouldn't go in.




    You did not answer the question.

    When you specifically say high %, are you referring to real hockey or this game?

    Not trying to sound like a troll, but I am not looking for a hockey lesson. Just clarification on what you mean specifically when using that term.
  • Again - I feel that the success rate of that shot (between blue line and top of the faceoff circle) is being grossly exaggerated.

    I could play 5 VS games a day and show you highlights of this very goal being scored every single day, multiple times a day. I'm sure others in this forum would agree. If this were grossly exaggerated, this specific topic wouldn't exist as no one would bother making a fuss about something that happens too infrequently to be problematic in the game.
  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?

    There's no tension on my side lol

    High % shots - come on now - we all know where those come from:

    nvIzUPC.jpg

    This area increases greatly with poor defensive play. So, if you're asking whether or not NHL 19 has a larger area of spots where goals go in more often - that's absolutely true due to the lack of people defending those shots based on the idea that they feel it shouldn't go in.




    You did not answer the question.

    When you specifically say high %, are you referring to real hockey or this game?

    Not trying to sound like a troll, but I am not looking for a hockey lesson. Just clarification on what you mean specifically when using that term.

    The high % scoring areas in NHL 19 are equal to the high % scoring areas in real life.

    I do agree that some shots from some of those areas go in more than others - there's no question about that. Even NHL_Dev has pointed out certain frame adjustments that can be made in those scenarios.

    However - the point still remains that those high % scoring areas can be defended if the skill is there to do so.
  • The high % scoring areas in NHL 19 are equal to the high % scoring areas in real life.

    I've never played goalie a day in my entire life - I would be willing to bet a year's salary that you couldnt glide into the zone and flick a wrister on net, between the blue line and top of circle, and score on me even 5% of the time. If high scoring areas in this game were equivalent to real life, every game would be an absolute barn burner.
  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?

    There's no tension on my side lol

    High % shots - come on now - we all know where those come from:

    nvIzUPC.jpg

    This area increases greatly with poor defensive play. So, if you're asking whether or not NHL 19 has a larger area of spots where goals go in more often - that's absolutely true due to the lack of people defending those shots based on the idea that they feel it shouldn't go in.




    You did not answer the question.

    When you specifically say high %, are you referring to real hockey or this game?

    Not trying to sound like a troll, but I am not looking for a hockey lesson. Just clarification on what you mean specifically when using that term.

    The high % scoring areas in NHL 19 are equal to the high % scoring areas in real life.

    I do agree that some shots from some of those areas go in more than others - there's no question about that. Even NHL_Dev has pointed out certain frame adjustments that can be made in those scenarios.

    However - the point still remains that those high % scoring areas can be defended if the skill is there to do so.

    No. The point is those same 2 plays have to be defended because that is all people try to resort to, every single game.

    Again, people mimic what they see as successful and soon enough, always the same stuff to defend.
  • The high % scoring areas in NHL 19 are equal to the high % scoring areas in real life.

    I've never played goalie a day in my entire life - I would be willing to bet a year's salary that you couldnt glide into the zone and flick a wrister on net, between the blue line and top of circle, and score on me even 5% of the time. If high scoring areas in this game were equivalent to real life, every game would be an absolute barn burner.

    Not only that, but you can still consistently abuse the glove side. People favor shots on the glove side a whole lot more than blocker side.
  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?

    There's no tension on my side lol

    High % shots - come on now - we all know where those come from:

    nvIzUPC.jpg

    This area increases greatly with poor defensive play. So, if you're asking whether or not NHL 19 has a larger area of spots where goals go in more often - that's absolutely true due to the lack of people defending those shots based on the idea that they feel it shouldn't go in.




    You did not answer the question.

    When you specifically say high %, are you referring to real hockey or this game?

    Not trying to sound like a troll, but I am not looking for a hockey lesson. Just clarification on what you mean specifically when using that term.

    The high % scoring areas in NHL 19 are equal to the high % scoring areas in real life.

    I do agree that some shots from some of those areas go in more than others - there's no question about that. Even NHL_Dev has pointed out certain frame adjustments that can be made in those scenarios.

    However - the point still remains that those high % scoring areas can be defended if the skill is there to do so.

    No. The point is those same 2 plays have to be defended because that is all people try to resort to, every single game.

    Again, people mimic what they see as successful and soon enough, always the same stuff to defend.

    So, is it the fault of the game that those two plays are attempted all game, every game?

    Or, is it the fault of users who are incapable of defending those plays?

  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?

    There's no tension on my side lol

    High % shots - come on now - we all know where those come from:

    nvIzUPC.jpg

    This area increases greatly with poor defensive play. So, if you're asking whether or not NHL 19 has a larger area of spots where goals go in more often - that's absolutely true due to the lack of people defending those shots based on the idea that they feel it shouldn't go in.




    You did not answer the question.

    When you specifically say high %, are you referring to real hockey or this game?

    Not trying to sound like a troll, but I am not looking for a hockey lesson. Just clarification on what you mean specifically when using that term.

    The high % scoring areas in NHL 19 are equal to the high % scoring areas in real life.

    I do agree that some shots from some of those areas go in more than others - there's no question about that. Even NHL_Dev has pointed out certain frame adjustments that can be made in those scenarios.

    However - the point still remains that those high % scoring areas can be defended if the skill is there to do so.

    No. The point is those same 2 plays have to be defended because that is all people try to resort to, every single game.

    Again, people mimic what they see as successful and soon enough, always the same stuff to defend.

    So, is it the fault of the game that those two plays are attempted all game, every game?

    Or, is it the fault of users who are incapable of defending those plays?

    It is the game's fault for granting such a high success rate of the same repetitive plays. It is also the player's fault for going to these plays, but how can you blame them when they consistently work, and even worse, work with less effort than setting up plays and moving the puck around?

    Simply put, great players know what to do to get those predictable outcomes, or plays, to then go for those consistent goals.

    Here's an even better one. Get a youtube video of a top VS player, and then find me an NHL game that is very similar. You will not find one because this game doesn't reflect that. The end result here is to make forwards score goals and sell HUT packs. It is, in the end, a business.
  • @KidShowtime1867 if we are in disagreement with that last comment, then we have nothing further to discuss on this forum.

    That's fine, but you need to own up to the fact that some of those goals are the result of your own poor defensive play.

    Again, not attacking you - just providing my opinion on why you are suffering from these goals being scored on you 'all the time'.

    Just for clarification, and may ease some tension or misconception.

    When you say high % shots, what are you referring to exactly? High % in this game, or high % in real life, say NHL caliber players?

    There's no tension on my side lol

    High % shots - come on now - we all know where those come from:

    nvIzUPC.jpg

    This area increases greatly with poor defensive play. So, if you're asking whether or not NHL 19 has a larger area of spots where goals go in more often - that's absolutely true due to the lack of people defending those shots based on the idea that they feel it shouldn't go in.




    You did not answer the question.

    When you specifically say high %, are you referring to real hockey or this game?

    Not trying to sound like a troll, but I am not looking for a hockey lesson. Just clarification on what you mean specifically when using that term.

    The high % scoring areas in NHL 19 are equal to the high % scoring areas in real life.

    I do agree that some shots from some of those areas go in more than others - there's no question about that. Even NHL_Dev has pointed out certain frame adjustments that can be made in those scenarios.

    However - the point still remains that those high % scoring areas can be defended if the skill is there to do so.

    No. The point is those same 2 plays have to be defended because that is all people try to resort to, every single game.

    Again, people mimic what they see as successful and soon enough, always the same stuff to defend.

    So, is it the fault of the game that those two plays are attempted all game, every game?

    Or, is it the fault of users who are incapable of defending those plays?

    Yeah but the problem is that's unrealistic. A NHL goalie would not be an NHL goalie if those short side goals with no screen went in that much. So it is kind of EA's fault that they made NHL goalies this bad at stopping those goals.
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