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And just like that...the optimism faded

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  • LeFury_27 wrote: »
    Was sniping some short side goals and getting some sniped on me, but I realized something.

    Why do the goalies over react to the smallest short side shot? They go for the big windmill glove save deep in their net instead of coming out, cutting of the angle and making a calm save like 100% of NHL goalies do today. Like I just do not understand it.

    Is this game being marketed for like 10 year olds who watch twitch steamers and want to snipe top cheese all day all while puck ragging?? This is nothing like real hockey.

    I think they adjusted something with goalies and this was an accident
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    Was sniping some short side goals and getting some sniped on me, but I realized something.

    Why do the goalies over react to the smallest short side shot? They go for the big windmill glove save deep in their net instead of coming out, cutting off the angle and making a calm save like 100% of NHL goalies do today. Like I just do not understand it.

    Is this game being marketed for like 10 year olds who watch twitch steamers and want to snipe top cheese all day all while puck ragging?? This is nothing like real hockey.

    The goalies will make blocking saves if the angle is tight enough and the shot isn't in a spot that requires them to make a reactionary save with a limb.

    At a certain point, due to reaction time, NHL goalies have to drop and get big, covering as much net as they can and then are forced to then react afterwards to the puck. If it is a great shot and their reaction time is too slow, they get beat.

    If it is a right handed shooter on the right side, you will see the goalie can commit more as the threat to score far side is far less as the angle is that much worse the more the puck is to the outside.

    When it is a left handed shooter on the right side, their disadvantage is that they need to expose the puck to the middle of the ice where defenders can make a play on it but there is also a better angle to the net the more they drift to the middle of the ice. That is where it is up to the defense to not allow players to settle and get good shots off, especially from better spots on the ice. That is also where playing modes like HUT where teams are composed of a lot of superstar players with great shots becomes tougher to defend as you need to tightly mark more players out of fear of them getting a great shot.

    This video of real world snipes is worth a look to see the goalies reactions. Even at tight angles, when they drop and get big, they can still get beat by great shots and are at the mercy of their reaction time to make a limb based save. All depends on how much they can challenge, the angle of the shot and their reaction time in that scenario.



  • Ai goalies are always going to have issues. At one time or another these forums have complained about the goalie letting in (fill in blank with any type of shot ever) to easily.

    Doesn't mean I don't think they need tweaking but the conspiracy garbage is just insane. They didn't flip a switch to allow easy short side because people were complaining it was too hard to score. When my friends and I were able to get into games (very rare but it did happen) we had no issue scoring, including short side. It was a little different than previous years but by end of beta I was seeing people adapt.

    I would like to see them tighten up how easily goalie reacts, down in butterfly and open up the corners even when you are no where near him. But this has been a problem for years. It's not just short side. Far side is just as easy, when there's no defense. I think you see more short side because that's commonly the first thing you can get off before defense clamps down on you.
  • Ai goalies are always going to have issues. At one time or another these forums have complained about the goalie letting in (fill in blank with any type of shot ever) to easily.

    Doesn't mean I don't think they need tweaking but the conspiracy garbage is just insane. They didn't flip a switch to allow easy short side because people were complaining it was too hard to score. When my friends and I were able to get into games (very rare but it did happen) we had no issue scoring, including short side. It was a little different than previous years but by end of beta I was seeing people adapt.

    I would like to see them tighten up how easily goalie reacts, down in butterfly and open up the corners even when you are no where near him. But this has been a problem for years. It's not just short side. Far side is just as easy, when there's no defense. I think you see more short side because that's commonly the first thing you can get off before defense clamps down on you.

    That's exactly what they did:
    Ty_Hors wrote: »
    NHL 19 Tuner 1.03 - Expected Availability October 24th @ 2am PST

    This tuner is aimed to help address two major areas of feedback we have seen from the community: the prevelance of Skillzone defense and incidental contact/bumps being too strong.

    • Tuned down AI aggression towards the puck carrier and loose pucks in Online VS and HUT
    • Further muting of AI defensive actions in Online VS and HUT. There will still be some rare cases where the AI will perform a defensive action if the puck comes loose as we want them to defend passes and their logic works similar on pass receptions and loose puck acquisition.
    • Improved cases where an AI goalie was reacting too quickly to passes even when not reading a pass.
    • Improved cases where an AI goalie was able to recover too easily against their momentum.
    • Improved cases where goaltender passes were getting overly assisted
    • Improved some cases where players would sometimes lose the puck from incidental contacts that weren’t big enough to trigger a stumble. This was done by increasing the distance the puck needs to be from the stick for incidental puck loss. Collisions of stumbles or greater remained unchanged and will follow the same physics behavior as before.
    • Improved a player’s ability to withstand push checks at lower relative speeds, especially from behind. Results will still vary based on the players involved and the more detailed context of the collision.

      We’re continuing to monitor some other major areas of feedback from the community, however at this time we have not implemented any changes. These include skating and poke checking.
  • jmwalsh8888
    1184 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    Maybe you are right. I haven't noticed any difference. To me it's not a momentum and then reaction in opposite direction issue. The goalie shouldn't be moving so much so early in the first place that opens up the short side. They are trying to stop people from cutting across the goalie and beating him far side on forehand but really that's defensemen job.

    I think a lot of the ai tweaks to goalies over the years have been an answer to bad players (or ai) playing bad defense and constantly putting the goalie in bad position.
  • My opinion the goalies shouldn't be going down when not being screened also in the forehand backhand move if the d man is
    cutting off the angle there is no reason the goalies should be leaving their post , before all these tuners the goalies played as they should, sorry but the only skill Gap I see now is who can cheese better or more
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    Was sniping some short side goals and getting some sniped on me, but I realized something.

    Why do the goalies over react to the smallest short side shot? They go for the big windmill glove save deep in their net instead of coming out, cutting off the angle and making a calm save like 100% of NHL goalies do today. Like I just do not understand it.

    Is this game being marketed for like 10 year olds who watch twitch steamers and want to snipe top cheese all day all while puck ragging?? This is nothing like real hockey.

    The goalies will make blocking saves if the angle is tight enough and the shot isn't in a spot that requires them to make a reactionary save with a limb.

    At a certain point, due to reaction time, NHL goalies have to drop and get big, covering as much net as they can and then are forced to then react afterwards to the puck. If it is a great shot and their reaction time is too slow, they get beat.

    If it is a right handed shooter on the right side, you will see the goalie can commit more as the threat to score far side is far less as the angle is that much worse the more the puck is to the outside.

    When it is a left handed shooter on the right side, their disadvantage is that they need to expose the puck to the middle of the ice where defenders can make a play on it but there is also a better angle to the net the more they drift to the middle of the ice. That is where it is up to the defense to not allow players to settle and get good shots off, especially from better spots on the ice. That is also where playing modes like HUT where teams are composed of a lot of superstar players with great shots becomes tougher to defend as you need to tightly mark more players out of fear of them getting a great shot.

    This video of real world snipes is worth a look to see the goalies reactions. Even at tight angles, when they drop and get big, they can still get beat by great shots and are at the mercy of their reaction time to make a limb based save. All depends on how much they can challenge, the angle of the shot and their reaction time in that scenario.



    While I agree with much that you wrote about inside shooters advantage I also think that most peoples gripe is not that NHL can't snipe short side, bar down from good positions(sometimes). I think most people are wondering why the short side snipe with no screen or option for a back door play goes in from beyond the circles so often. Even in your video, most (not all) goals had some sort of screen or pass option. It wasn't just Stamkos coming in passed the blue line, cutting and shooting short side.

    The fact that this shot does not go in even close to as often on human goalies is a red flag that the goalie AI can be improved. I am not sure the level of situational awareness programmed into the goalies but I don't understand why they are so deep in their nets when their is no back door/seam pass option. They should be beyond their crease when the only option is a shot and slowly reposition as the play progresses and other options come into play. Instead I watch the AI goalie deep, go down to cover most of the net (as you said) and wave at pucks with arms and shoulders instead of cutting down the angles. How many times do you see an NHL goalie 2-3 feet beyond his crease as a great shooter barrels down on him?

    You always hear analysts say goalies tend to stay deep in their net when they have lost confidence. Do we all need to chip in for a sports psychologists for the EA AI goalies??
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    While I agree with much that you wrote about inside shooters advantage I also think that most peoples gripe is not that NHL can't snipe short side, bar down from good positions(sometimes). I think most people are wondering why the short side snipe with no screen or option for a back door play goes in from beyond the circles so often. Even in your video, most (not all) goals had some sort of screen or pass option. It wasn't just Stamkos coming in passed the blue line, cutting and shooting short side.

    The fact that this shot does not go in even close to as often on human goalies is a red flag that the goalie AI can be improved. I am not sure the level of situational awareness programmed into the goalies but I don't understand why they are so deep in their nets when their is no back door/seam pass option. They should be beyond their crease when the only option is a shot and slowly reposition as the play progresses and other options come into play. Instead I watch the AI goalie deep, go down to cover most of the net (as you said) and wave at pucks with arms and shoulders instead of cutting down the angles. How many times do you see an NHL goalie 2-3 feet beyond his crease as a great shooter barrels down on him?

    You always hear analysts say goalies tend to stay deep in their net when they have lost confidence. Do we all need to chip in for a sports psychologists for the EA AI goalies??

    Some good points here for sure. In the last patch, we tried some things to cut down on easy rebound goals. That leads to goalies challenging shooters less not only when there is a player back door for a one timer but also a player streaking in that can be a one timer or rebound threat.

    We have some tuning that we have tried locally to dial some of that back in a bit and that can help with the short side so it isn't something that can't be done, it is just a balance and we need to test around it for other knock ons if we want to action on any of those changes.

    I have had a few discussions with others regarding shots from the top of the circles going in. Accuracy in our game at it's best (fully settled player shooting to their ideal direction) is arguably higher than it is in real life on average. This has been done on Competitive game style for a few reasons -- one is the shorter time period of the games and the other is perceived randomness. At it's worst, accuracy is pretty accurate so players rushing shots, shooting right out of dekes, spinning around and shooting (especially with lower attribute players) usually results in realistic missed shots but if you really settle, the top end accuracy can be really good. Even a few more inches of error can result in quite a few more misses the further out a player is from the net as the angle spread is more the further the shot travels. So those differences lead to more accuracy when a player settles even before you factor in goalie reaction time.

    When you look at the goalies, if we want a player to be rewarded for getting to a prime ares to score and the defense to be penalized for giving up shots from the slot, the goalie has to have a certain amount of reaction time error on average (that also varies based on a number of factors including what is happening around them, how they analyze that and their attributes). The higher that delay can be for consistency in those prime areas with great shots to the perimeter of the net, the more the odd shot from distance can also beat the goalie. It is all a balance. So we can make the goalies better and eliminate longer shots but it will also cut down on shots that are coming from the slot currently as well. So there may be better tuning for sure but the current defensive tools are allowing some players the ability to cut down on goal scoring to really low averages per game already so we still take all those elements into account in terms of overall balance.

    But we aren't blind to all of these things which is why we continue to try tuning at the studio and look for better balances. When comparing one to one to the real world isn't the right thing though as we are already out of balance by having 4 minute periods rather than 20 and expecting 6-7 goals to be score per game on average between two teams. In reality, we should also probably have more shots on net but to get that in the current game lengths, we would probably need to turn off incidental contact and we don't want base defensive positioning to not be rewarded. So players can look at the real world to see what all of our physical factors in the mechanics are based upon (i.e. passing on your backhand is weaker than passing on your forehand, or shooting against your momentum is less powerful and accurate than shooting with it, etc.) but in general, on Competitive game style, everything is a bit heightened due to the pace of the game at 4 minute periods.

    Lastly, it is hard to compare to User goalies as we are also more forgiving for them in places than we should be to reward human play and reaction time. We have had tuning in the past where distance you have to move your limb to make the save has been more harsh when it comes to reaction time but where it is balanced now it is a bit more forgiving than it probably could be so they aren't easy to compare 1 to 1 to ai goalies necessarily.
  • servers, servers, servers...you can make the game as good as you want, but if the servers slow the game down to you to a turtles pace, you get wonky spins and way more "seamless" puck pickups that pull you into directions you don't intend, it makes the game terrible.

    Recently I've been noticing seamless puck pickups pulling me faster than my skater can actually skate in that particular game. Something wonky is going on with these servers since post Beta.
  • rcompton78
    232 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    While I agree with much that you wrote about inside shooters advantage I also think that most peoples gripe is not that NHL can't snipe short side, bar down from good positions(sometimes). I think most people are wondering why the short side snipe with no screen or option for a back door play goes in from beyond the circles so often. Even in your video, most (not all) goals had some sort of screen or pass option. It wasn't just Stamkos coming in passed the blue line, cutting and shooting short side.

    The fact that this shot does not go in even close to as often on human goalies is a red flag that the goalie AI can be improved. I am not sure the level of situational awareness programmed into the goalies but I don't understand why they are so deep in their nets when their is no back door/seam pass option. They should be beyond their crease when the only option is a shot and slowly reposition as the play progresses and other options come into play. Instead I watch the AI goalie deep, go down to cover most of the net (as you said) and wave at pucks with arms and shoulders instead of cutting down the angles. How many times do you see an NHL goalie 2-3 feet beyond his crease as a great shooter barrels down on him?

    You always hear analysts say goalies tend to stay deep in their net when they have lost confidence. Do we all need to chip in for a sports psychologists for the EA AI goalies??

    Some good points here for sure. In the last patch, we tried some things to cut down on easy rebound goals. That leads to goalies challenging shooters less not only when there is a player back door for a one timer but also a player streaking in that can be a one timer or rebound threat.

    We have some tuning that we have tried locally to dial some of that back in a bit and that can help with the short side so it isn't something that can't be done, it is just a balance and we need to test around it for other knock ons if we want to action on any of those changes.

    I have had a few discussions with others regarding shots from the top of the circles going in. Accuracy in our game at it's best (fully settled player shooting to their ideal direction) is arguably higher than it is in real life on average. This has been done on Competitive game style for a few reasons -- one is the shorter time period of the games and the other is perceived randomness. At it's worst, accuracy is pretty accurate so players rushing shots, shooting right out of dekes, spinning around and shooting (especially with lower attribute players) usually results in realistic missed shots but if you really settle, the top end accuracy can be really good. Even a few more inches of error can result in quite a few more misses the further out a player is from the net as the angle spread is more the further the shot travels. So those differences lead to more accuracy when a player settles even before you factor in goalie reaction time.

    When you look at the goalies, if we want a player to be rewarded for getting to a prime ares to score and the defense to be penalized for giving up shots from the slot, the goalie has to have a certain amount of reaction time error on average (that also varies based on a number of factors including what is happening around them, how they analyze that and their attributes). The higher that delay can be for consistency in those prime areas with great shots to the perimeter of the net, the more the odd shot from distance can also beat the goalie. It is all a balance. So we can make the goalies better and eliminate longer shots but it will also cut down on shots that are coming from the slot currently as well. So there may be better tuning for sure but the current defensive tools are allowing some players the ability to cut down on goal scoring to really low averages per game already so we still take all those elements into account in terms of overall balance.

    But we aren't blind to all of these things which is why we continue to try tuning at the studio and look for better balances. When comparing one to one to the real world isn't the right thing though as we are already out of balance by having 4 minute periods rather than 20 and expecting 6-7 goals to be score per game on average between two teams. In reality, we should also probably have more shots on net but to get that in the current game lengths, we would probably need to turn off incidental contact and we don't want base defensive positioning to not be rewarded. So players can look at the real world to see what all of our physical factors in the mechanics are based upon (i.e. passing on your backhand is weaker than passing on your forehand, or shooting against your momentum is less powerful and accurate than shooting with it, etc.) but in general, on Competitive game style, everything is a bit heightened due to the pace of the game at 4 minute periods.

    Lastly, it is hard to compare to User goalies as we are also more forgiving for them in places than we should be to reward human play and reaction time. We have had tuning in the past where distance you have to move your limb to make the save has been more harsh when it comes to reaction time but where it is balanced now it is a bit more forgiving than it probably could be so they aren't easy to compare 1 to 1 to ai goalies necessarily.

    Agreed you can't compare real life to video games. But thriving for a 'fun' simulation is I think what most people want.

    I am all for rewarding players for getting to high scoring areas. It is what the game is all about. Reward good plays. But I would argue that above the circles with no screen is not a high scoring area. I actually would prefer to call it a high scoring situation because a good shooter getting to the top of the circles a la Ovechkin can rip it through a D-man as a screen and bulge the twice more.

    Here is a question. You mention adding an error margin on goalies that changes depending on situation around them. That is a great idea and mimics real life. Real goalies have to we aware of things around them to assess what they should be doing. They say the great goalies read the play so well. But in code does speed of oncoming player and distance of shot change the error margin? I mean if you are trying to mimic decision/reaction time a good NHL goalie should have more time to read the play from a slow oncoming player (read puck ragging EA NHL God) that shoots from well beyond the circles as they cut left to right?
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited November 2018
    rcompton78 wrote: »
    Agreed you can't compare real life to video games. But thriving for a 'fun' simulation is I think what most people want.

    I am all for rewarding players for getting to high scoring areas. It is what the game is all about. Reward good plays. But I would argue that above the circles with no screen is not a high scoring area. I actually would prefer to call it a high scoring situation because a good shooter getting to the top of the circles a la Ovechkin can rip it through a D-man as a screen and bulge the twice more.

    Here is a question. You mention adding an error margin on goalies that changes depending on situation around them. That is a great idea and mimics real life. Real goalies have to we aware of things around them to assess what they should be doing. They say the great goalies read the play so well. But in code does speed of oncoming player and distance of shot change the error margin? I mean if you are trying to mimic decision/reaction time a good NHL goalie should have more time to read the play from a slow oncoming player (read puck ragging EA NHL God) that shoots from well beyond the circles as they cut left to right?
    The goalie is constantly reading shot, pass or skate/deke based on what the puck carrier is doing and the movement around them. It can impact their angle, challenge distance, how prepared they are to react, etc.. If you are turning away from the net on your backhand, the goalie is much more ready for you to pass as he doesn't need to be worried about a shot. That is why players that come in protecting the puck on their backhand are basically telling the goalie to wait for the pass and the goalie slides over and takes away the net, where as if you come in gliding ready to shoot on your forehand but then make a pass, the goalie may drop or react later to the pass leading to more net for the player performing the one timer to shoot at.

    The angles the players are skating, the speeds and the coverage by the defense all factor in to how the ai goalies are reading the play.

    The only error on an unscreened shot when the goalie is settled is in their reaction time. Once they start moving or are screened, there can be some error in their precision for where the puck is a well. In some cases up to not seeing the actual position at all but in some of those cases they may still get hit by the puck as they may have an idea based on where they last saw the shooter going or where the pass was headed, what area of the net they should be taking away and then try to react after that.

    You see goalies do this on dekes as well. If you deke hard to one of the sides, the goalie may push over to try and take away as much of the net there as they can but that allows a player to tuck it back 5 hole or get a shot before they can react up and over them.

    The goalie is more ready to make a save on a shot as a player is gliding in and settled on their forehand but there is still a certain limit in player reaction times which is shown in the video I posted. When a shot is good and the player has to react and move their limb a decent distance, sometimes they can't get a piece of it.

    So it is always a fine balance between getting the goalie moving/unsettled and taking quick shots they aren't ready for or if you settle yourself to get a more accurate shot but give them more ability to read and prepare for it which mimics what we see in the real world quite well.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    When you look at the goalies, if we want a player to be rewarded for getting to a prime ares to score and the defense to be penalized for giving up shots from the slot, the goalie has to have a certain amount of reaction time error on average (that also varies based on a number of factors including what is happening around them, how they analyze that and their attributes). The higher that delay can be for consistency in those prime areas with great shots to the perimeter of the net, the more the odd shot from distance can also beat the goalie. It is all a balance. So we can make the goalies better and eliminate longer shots but it will also cut down on shots that are coming from the slot currently as well. So there may be better tuning for sure but the current defensive tools are allowing some players the ability to cut down on goal scoring to really low averages per game already so we still take all those elements into account in terms of overall balance.

    Once again, thanks for the detailed feedback. It's greatly appreciated.

    Right now I think I'd be willing to trade goalies making a few more saves on shots from in-close if it means they can reliably make the saves they should from farther out.

    I've posted this before, but it's the perfect example. There's no reason for this goal to go in. And it's not like I think you should never be able to score from there, but it wasn't even a great shot. The goalie just made himself as small as possible and gave up huge chunks of the net.

    If goalies need to be better on prime chances to prevent this from happening so be it. Make us earn our goals.

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    While I agree with much that you wrote about inside shooters advantage I also think that most peoples gripe is not that NHL can't snipe short side, bar down from good positions(sometimes). I think most people are wondering why the short side snipe with no screen or option for a back door play goes in from beyond the circles so often. Even in your video, most (not all) goals had some sort of screen or pass option. It wasn't just Stamkos coming in passed the blue line, cutting and shooting short side.

    The fact that this shot does not go in even close to as often on human goalies is a red flag that the goalie AI can be improved. I am not sure the level of situational awareness programmed into the goalies but I don't understand why they are so deep in their nets when their is no back door/seam pass option. They should be beyond their crease when the only option is a shot and slowly reposition as the play progresses and other options come into play. Instead I watch the AI goalie deep, go down to cover most of the net (as you said) and wave at pucks with arms and shoulders instead of cutting down the angles. How many times do you see an NHL goalie 2-3 feet beyond his crease as a great shooter barrels down on him?

    You always hear analysts say goalies tend to stay deep in their net when they have lost confidence. Do we all need to chip in for a sports psychologists for the EA AI goalies??

    Some good points here for sure. In the last patch, we tried some things to cut down on easy rebound goals. That leads to goalies challenging shooters less not only when there is a player back door for a one timer but also a player streaking in that can be a one timer or rebound threat.

    We have some tuning that we have tried locally to dial some of that back in a bit and that can help with the short side so it isn't something that can't be done, it is just a balance and we need to test around it for other knock ons if we want to action on any of those changes.

    I have had a few discussions with others regarding shots from the top of the circles going in. Accuracy in our game at it's best (fully settled player shooting to their ideal direction) is arguably higher than it is in real life on average. This has been done on Competitive game style for a few reasons -- one is the shorter time period of the games and the other is perceived randomness. At it's worst, accuracy is pretty accurate so players rushing shots, shooting right out of dekes, spinning around and shooting (especially with lower attribute players) usually results in realistic missed shots but if you really settle, the top end accuracy can be really good. Even a few more inches of error can result in quite a few more misses the further out a player is from the net as the angle spread is more the further the shot travels. So those differences lead to more accuracy when a player settles even before you factor in goalie reaction time.

    When you look at the goalies, if we want a player to be rewarded for getting to a prime ares to score and the defense to be penalized for giving up shots from the slot, the goalie has to have a certain amount of reaction time error on average (that also varies based on a number of factors including what is happening around them, how they analyze that and their attributes). The higher that delay can be for consistency in those prime areas with great shots to the perimeter of the net, the more the odd shot from distance can also beat the goalie. It is all a balance. So we can make the goalies better and eliminate longer shots but it will also cut down on shots that are coming from the slot currently as well. So there may be better tuning for sure but the current defensive tools are allowing some players the ability to cut down on goal scoring to really low averages per game already so we still take all those elements into account in terms of overall balance.

    But we aren't blind to all of these things which is why we continue to try tuning at the studio and look for better balances. When comparing one to one to the real world isn't the right thing though as we are already out of balance by having 4 minute periods rather than 20 and expecting 6-7 goals to be score per game on average between two teams. In reality, we should also probably have more shots on net but to get that in the current game lengths, we would probably need to turn off incidental contact and we don't want base defensive positioning to not be rewarded. So players can look at the real world to see what all of our physical factors in the mechanics are based upon (i.e. passing on your backhand is weaker than passing on your forehand, or shooting against your momentum is less powerful and accurate than shooting with it, etc.) but in general, on Competitive game style, everything is a bit heightened due to the pace of the game at 4 minute periods.

    Lastly, it is hard to compare to User goalies as we are also more forgiving for them in places than we should be to reward human play and reaction time. We have had tuning in the past where distance you have to move your limb to make the save has been more harsh when it comes to reaction time but where it is balanced now it is a bit more forgiving than it probably could be so they aren't easy to compare 1 to 1 to ai goalies necessarily.

    Can you tune it so the goalies forcefully redirect pucks? So instead of just it hitting them and dying, they kick it or slap it to the side?
  • About easy rebounds, AI placement also play a huge role.
    Here's two situations leading to rebounds. Keep an eye on my right D's defensive positioning.

    While I do understand that you can't program the AI to always be on top of every situation, I don't understand why you would want them to randomly shut down like this and just glide out of the play?
    There is nothing here, that should cause that defender to get confused to the point he does here.

    This is highly problematic. What players do to counter this randomness is exactly what my opponent is doing in this clip, take control of a D or C, stop playing and wait for the puck to come loose. And it pays of all too well.
    The advantage puck-carriers gets from protecting the puck or being in gliding state combined with the added protection against small checks, discourages any attempt to pressure the puck-carrier. The unreliability of AI, discourages ever leaving the slot. It's like the game wants you to skill-zone, as hard as possible.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    SpillGal wrote: »
    While I do understand that you can't program the AI to always be on top of every situation, I don't understand why you would want them to randomly shut down like this and just glide out of the play?
    There is nothing here, that should cause that defender to get confused to the point he does here.

    This is highly problematic. What players do to counter this randomness is exactly what my opponent is doing in this clip, take control of a D or C, stop playing and wait for the puck to come loose. And it pays of all too well.

    The advantage puck-carriers gets from protecting the puck or being in gliding state combined with the added protection against small checks, discourages any attempt to pressure the puck-carrier. The unreliability of AI, discourages ever leaving the slot. It's like the game wants you to skill-zone, as hard as possible.

    Agreed. Lots of pieces could be better.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Can you tune it so the goalies forcefully redirect pucks? So instead of just it hitting them and dying, they kick it or slap it to the side?
    We don't have tuning for that but we do have some saves that redirect the pucks. It all depends how those saves play out and what frame in the animation based on the goalies reaction and their timing along with the physics reaction of the puck where it deflects off to.

    Going into practice mode, you will see plenty where the goalie deflects them away out of danger but you will also see others where they give up rebounds.

    In the future, I would like to have even more control over this and have them select specific save animations ahead of others when they have more time and awareness of what they want to do with the puck similar to when we added the positional blocking saves that take priority over the reactionary limb saves when they are able to be used.
  • “Players have adapted”

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/64192829

    Before any one says It was my fault chasing and going out position to hit, each time I threw a poke was a penalty and you know what that means in 3s. Same garbage move that results in a goal. Clearly defense isn’t what was and anybody who says otherwise is oblivious.

    I seriously don’t understand the mind set of this series. Defensemen are held accountable each time they make a bad timed poke check or stick lift. But there’s no accountability in this series for offensive players who glide around and don’t pass yet skate through everybody and score. They get rewarded for nothing.

    I’ve never seen a developer change the way the game plays in a few weeks after the launch. Any attempt by the offensive player like that in the clip would have been decked earlier in the early but EA hadchanged the game for the worse.

    And for us to go on almost one full month since the last patch and tuner which introduced this kind of play style is driving away fans. No one wants a repeat of NHL 18 and we’ve been getting most of that game this last month. Same garbage breakaway moves, unscreened cheese and not attempting to pass. To allow that kind of play style to last this long without a tuner or a patch tells you this is where the series is and is heading.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    “Players have adapted”

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/64192829

    Before any one says It was my fault chasing and going out position to hit, each time I threw a poke was a penalty and you know what that means in 3s. Same garbage move that results in a goal. Clearly defense isn’t what was and anybody who says otherwise is oblivious.

    I seriously don’t understand the mind set of this series. Defensemen are held accountable each time they make a bad timed poke check or stick lift. But there’s no accountability in this series for offensive players who glide around and don’t pass yet skate through everybody and score. They get rewarded for nothing.

    I’ve never seen a developer change the way the game plays in a few weeks after the launch. Any attempt by the offensive player like that in the clip would have been decked earlier in the early but EA hadchanged the game for the worse.

    And for us to go on almost one full month since the last patch and tuner which introduced this kind of play style is driving away fans. No one wants a repeat of NHL 18 and we’ve been getting most of that game this last month. Same garbage breakaway moves, unscreened cheese and not attempting to pass. To allow that kind of play style to last this long without a tuner or a patch tells you this is where the series is and is heading.

    This is just painful to watch.
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    “Players have adapted”

    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/64192829

    Before any one says It was my fault chasing and going out position to hit, each time I threw a poke was a penalty and you know what that means in 3s. Same garbage move that results in a goal. Clearly defense isn’t what was and anybody who says otherwise is oblivious.

    I seriously don’t understand the mind set of this series. Defensemen are held accountable each time they make a bad timed poke check or stick lift. But there’s no accountability in this series for offensive players who glide around and don’t pass yet skate through everybody and score. They get rewarded for nothing.

    I’ve never seen a developer change the way the game plays in a few weeks after the launch. Any attempt by the offensive player like that in the clip would have been decked earlier in the early but EA hadchanged the game for the worse.

    And for us to go on almost one full month since the last patch and tuner which introduced this kind of play style is driving away fans. No one wants a repeat of NHL 18 and we’ve been getting most of that game this last month. Same garbage breakaway moves, unscreened cheese and not attempting to pass. To allow that kind of play style to last this long without a tuner or a patch tells you this is where the series is and is heading.

    i hear you and i agree to some point. but really it's just the skating engine that allows such good skating. you and your partner never even touch the puck carrier. you were right on top of him and so was your partner. in real hockey he loses the puck 100% of the time but not because of body checking, but because when you are skating right on top of each other you stick check the puck away easily. That being said after he spins and splits you two, no way he ever gets by the 3rd guy (AI dman) without getting crushed. but something is wrong with AI D and sometimes they just skate up and do nothing. other times they are insane unstoppable defensive forces. but this time he just skated towards carrier then turned away and let him walk in.

    again i hear you but you say he did nothing... he perfectly timed everything he did to make you miss any contact. what he did there is not easy. not that hard when you learn how but not easy either. definitely nowhere as easy as it is to just skate at someone and use the hit stick (back in beta). i didn't like playing defense in beta, it was so boring how easy it was. almost every game that my friends and I actually got to work we had shutouts or maybe gave up one goal. and i'm a forward that was almost always playing D just to try it out.

    you said what the real problem is. a) stick checking is completely broken in this game right now and b) 3s is re-stupid and its all about puck ragging to draw penalties for free goals on penalty shots against the AI.
  • My optimism fades with each game. Win or lose.

    LOL at double decking a puck ragger, puck gets in that limbo state where no one can touch it (not even two people around it), physics finally get stick to puck and forward is basically stealing the puck while getting up, steals it and then takes it in.

    atdvj8q.gif
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