LOL at double decking a puck ragger, puck gets in that limbo state where no one can touch it (not even two people around it), physics finally get stick to puck and forward is basically stealing the puck while getting up, steals it and then takes it in.
LOL at double decking a puck ragger, puck gets in that limbo state where no one can touch it (not even two people around it), physics finally get stick to puck and forward is basically stealing the puck while getting up, steals it and then takes it in.
That clip is exactly what makes me so confused. How is what we see here better than being shoved off the puck? This is why so many people have quit. Myself and 7 club members stopped playing because of this. Don't know how anyone can look at that clip and say it's better than 1.0.
LOL at double decking a puck ragger, puck gets in that limbo state where no one can touch it (not even two people around it), physics finally get stick to puck and forward is basically stealing the puck while getting up, steals it and then takes it in.
That clip is exactly what makes me so confused. How is this better than being shoved off the puck? This is why so many people have quit. Myself and 7 club members stopped playing because of this. Don't know how anyone can look at that clip and say it's better than 1.0.
I wish we could pick our own tuners for online. Just let everyone list the tuner they want to play under in matchmaking. EA is so convinced 1.03 is preferred, maybe they'd finally get it if people were allowed to pick. I bet 90% or more people would play on pre-1.03.
Let their "elite players" be the only willing participants in the 1.03 glitch-a-thon
LOL at double decking a puck ragger, puck gets in that limbo state where no one can touch it (not even two people around it), physics finally get stick to puck and forward is basically stealing the puck while getting up, steals it and then takes it in.
That clip is exactly what makes me so confused. How is this better than being shoved off the puck? This is why so many people have quit. Myself and 7 club members stopped playing because of this. Don't know how anyone can look at that clip and say it's better than 1.0.
I wish we could pick our own tuners for online. Just let everyone list the tuner they want to play under in matchmaking. EA is so convinced 1.03 is preferred, maybe they'd finally get it if people were allowed to pick. I bet 90% or more people would play on pre-1.03.
Let their "elite players" be the only willing participants in the 1.03 glitch-a-thon
That's exactly what me and my club members were saying. We said if only we could play the tuner we wanted online. Like if EA gave us the option to pick 1.01 or 1.03, I'm sure it would make everyone happy.
The "elite players" would get their fun playing against each other, and the other 90% as you say would have fun playing real hockey.
I played a few games of versus the last few days, all I could be bothered to do. 3 of the 4 games I played turned into puck rag fests. It's not even worth playing anymore. All I do is check the forums and hope to god EA goes back to 1.0. Though unlikely, one can hope. lol
That clip is exactly what makes me so confused. How is what we see here better than being shoved off the puck? This is why so many people have quit. Myself and 7 club members stopped playing because of this. Don't know how anyone can look at that clip and say it's better than 1.0.
In this particular case, there isn’t actually anything in that clip that would change between 1.0 and 1.03
The hit from the player wasn’t a push check at low relative speed. The collision resulted in a stumble fall (which would have to do with the variables between the players sizes, attributes and quality of the collision). The defensive player arriving second, stumbled on the fallen player. The first hitter left without ensuring they got the puck as did the second player once he recovered from the stumble, unable to pull the puck through the other players body.
The ai player doesn’t recognize right away that the other players are going to skate away and covers the pass option and the puck carrier walks in and scores. In other situations people call out the ai for overly covering the puck that is already covered and leaving the pass option open.
To help the result you are after, we could allow players to pickup pucks without recognizing incidental stick on body contact but in most cases that would actually hinder defense as more players could force passes and pickup pucks walking through a closely marking defender rather than that body positioning mattering.
We did listen to players and improved our hit reactions and get up mechanics to be tied more to the hit magnitude and the stamina of the player hit so that the hittin team was more likely to recover pucks when players were knocked down with big hits but in this case it was a stumble fall and not a full fall so the recovery time is quicker.
Before any one says It was my fault chasing and going out position to hit, each time I threw a poke was a penalty and you know what that means in 3s. Same garbage move that results in a goal. Clearly defense isn’t what was and anybody who says otherwise is oblivious.
I seriously don’t understand the mind set of this series. Defensemen are held accountable each time they make a bad timed poke check or stick lift. But there’s no accountability in this series for offensive players who glide around and don’t pass yet skate through everybody and score. They get rewarded for nothing.
I’ve never seen a developer change the way the game plays in a few weeks after the launch. Any attempt by the offensive player like that in the clip would have been decked earlier in the early but EA hadchanged the game for the worse.
And for us to go on almost one full month since the last patch and tuner which introduced this kind of play style is driving away fans. No one wants a repeat of NHL 18 and we’ve been getting most of that game this last month. Same garbage breakaway moves, unscreened cheese and not attempting to pass. To allow that kind of play style to last this long without a tuner or a patch tells you this is where the series is and is heading.
i hear you and i agree to some point. but really it's just the skating engine that allows such good skating. you and your partner never even touch the puck carrier. you were right on top of him and so was your partner. in real hockey he loses the puck 100% of the time but not because of body checking, but because when you are skating right on top of each other you stick check the puck away easily. That being said after he spins and splits you two, no way he ever gets by the 3rd guy (AI dman) without getting crushed. but something is wrong with AI D and sometimes they just skate up and do nothing. other times they are insane unstoppable defensive forces. but this time he just skated towards carrier then turned away and let him walk in.
again i hear you but you say he did nothing... he perfectly timed everything he did to make you miss any contact. what he did there is not easy. not that hard when you learn how but not easy either. definitely nowhere as easy as it is to just skate at someone and use the hit stick (back in beta). i didn't like playing defense in beta, it was so boring how easy it was. almost every game that my friends and I actually got to work we had shutouts or maybe gave up one goal. and i'm a forward that was almost always playing D just to try it out.
you said what the real problem is. a) stick checking is completely broken in this game right now and b) 3s is re-stupid and its all about puck ragging to draw penalties for free goals on penalty shots against the AI.
I never touched the player? I felt my controller vibrate when I finished my “check”. No he didn’t perfectly time anything. Gliding like that woulda got him decked if it weren’t for the invisible bubble.
That clip is exactly what makes me so confused. How is what we see here better than being shoved off the puck? This is why so many people have quit. Myself and 7 club members stopped playing because of this. Don't know how anyone can look at that clip and say it's better than 1.0.
In this particular case, there isn’t actually anything in that clip that would change between 1.0 and 1.03
The hit from the player wasn’t a push check at low relative speed. The collision resulted in a stumble fall (which would have to do with the variables between the players sizes, attributes and quality of the collision). The defensive player arriving second, stumbled on the fallen player. The first hitter left without ensuring they got the puck as did the second player once he recovered from the stumble, unable to pull the puck through the other players body.
The ai player doesn’t recognize right away that the other players are going to skate away and covers the pass option and the puck carrier walks in and scores. In other situations people call out the ai for overly covering the puck that is already covered and leaving the pass option open.
To help the result you are after, we could allow players to pickup pucks without recognizing incidental stick on body contact but in most cases that would actually hinder defense as more players could force passes and pickup pucks walking through a closely marking defender rather than that body positioning mattering.
We did listen to players and improved our hit reactions and get up mechanics to be tied more to the hit magnitude and the stamina of the player hit so that the hittin team was more likely to recover pucks when players were knocked down with big hits but in this case it was a stumble fall and not a full fall so the recovery time is quicker.
So are you saying you are "satisfied" how the play went in that clip?
I wish we could pick our own tuners for online. Just let everyone list the tuner they want to play under in matchmaking. EA is so convinced 1.03 is preferred, maybe they'd finally get it if people were allowed to pick. I bet 90% or more people would play on pre-1.03.
Let their "elite players" be the only willing participants in the 1.03 glitch-a-thon
Player choice is great and it is definitely a topic that comes up but ranked leaderboards under the same conditions and fragmenting player bases are also considerations. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen though.
We aren’t ‘so convinced’. What I write on these boards are some explanations behind the thought process. Sometimes people say ‘hmm makes sense’. Other times they say ‘Makes sense, but you went too far’ and other times they just say ‘Nah, it was way better before’.
At the end of the day when I say we are listening, it is because we are. We are actively trying other tuning all the time to see what the results are like and continuing to watch unedited games played at all levels online to see things with our own eyes rather than just read personal reviews and hand picked videos of certain moments that could have gone better. We need to consider a bigger picture than that but we still read all the individual details and watch the clips for context and to see/hear things through other eyes as well.
That clip is exactly what makes me so confused. How is what we see here better than being shoved off the puck? This is why so many people have quit. Myself and 7 club members stopped playing because of this. Don't know how anyone can look at that clip and say it's better than 1.0.
In this particular case, there isn’t actually anything in that clip that would change between 1.0 and 1.03
The hit from the player wasn’t a push check at low relative speed. The collision resulted in a stumble fall (which would have to do with the variables between the players sizes, attributes and quality of the collision). The defensive player arriving second, stumbled on the fallen player. The first hitter left without ensuring they got the puck as did the second player once he recovered from the stumble, unable to pull the puck through the other players body.
The ai player doesn’t recognize right away that the other players are going to skate away and covers the pass option and the puck carrier walks in and scores. In other situations people call out the ai for overly covering the puck that is already covered and leaving the pass option open.
To help the result you are after, we could allow players to pickup pucks without recognizing incidental stick on body contact but in most cases that would actually hinder defense as more players could force passes and pickup pucks walking through a closely marking defender rather than that body positioning mattering.
We did listen to players and improved our hit reactions and get up mechanics to be tied more to the hit magnitude and the stamina of the player hit so that the hittin team was more likely to recover pucks when players were knocked down with big hits but in this case it was a stumble fall and not a full fall so the recovery time is quicker.
I'm not sure where you are seeing the stumble from green and teal here. The hit player lost the puck and we were both in good position for a pickup. Even so, green isn't intended to pick up the puck here, teal (myself) is since I want green to speed up for an up ice, in stride pass. I actually managed to grab the puck for a split second before the auto-stick check happens (stick on stick sounds) with the downed player miraculously recovering and he automatically takes it away from me.
I have seen this plenty of times before where a check animation is slower than the animation of a player being hit, recovering, and gaining control again.
I wish we could pick our own tuners for online. Just let everyone list the tuner they want to play under in matchmaking. EA is so convinced 1.03 is preferred, maybe they'd finally get it if people were allowed to pick. I bet 90% or more people would play on pre-1.03.
Let their "elite players" be the only willing participants in the 1.03 glitch-a-thon
Player choice is great and it is definitely a topic that comes up but ranked leaderboards under the same conditions and fragmenting player bases are also considerations. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen though.
We aren’t ‘so convinced’. What I write on these boards are some explanations behind the thought process. Sometimes people say ‘hmm makes sense’. Other times they say ‘Makes sense, but you went too far’ and other times they just say ‘Nah, it was way better before’.
At the end of the day when I say we are listening, it is because we are. We are actively trying other tuning all the time to see what the results are like and continuing to watch unedited games played at all levels online to see things with our own eyes rather than just read personal reviews and hand picked videos of certain moments that could have gone better. We need to consider a bigger picture than that but we still read all the individual details and watch the clips for context and to see/hear things through other eyes as well.
I believe y'all are listening, otherwise you wouldn't be here posting, and we all appreciate that. As far as fragmenting the player base, I understand that concern, and I think unhappiness with the current tuner is decreasing the player base more severely than a "select a tuner" option. Personally, I only play NHL when I just need to play some hockey, and log off after a game or two max. With the old tuners I played as long as I could and was never bored.
I know leaderboards matter to some people (they don't to me), but why would they need to be affected by a "choose your tuner" setting? I mean, they could be separated (like 6s leaderboards and non-6s leaderboards were separated), but would they have to be? And if were, they wouldn't require more than two leaderboards. There's no need for a leaderboard for each tuner. If they must be separated, have one board for the current official tuner, and one board for all previous tuners combined.
I know how much more helpful data are over player posts, and it seems like y'all could collect data on which tuners are preferred by allowing player selection in matchmaking. You guys could see the numbers on which tuners are preferred, which would probably be extremely valuable to y'all to evaluate player desires.
So are you saying you are "satisfied" how the play went in that clip?
I am just saying that what happened in the clip makes sense with the current game mechanics which aren't tuned for that play alone but every incidental stick on stick/body and hit reaction/get up scenario in the game.
We have considered not having incidental stick contact impacted by fallen players for situations like that one in favor of some balance and lack of fidelity for the player picking up t he puck but so far we have elected for the stick on stick and stick on body reactions to be true even if the player is down on the ice. So although we could add that code, it isn't in there now and that is why that play happens the way it does. These guys know those are the current mechanics and elected to risk jumping up without the puck for the bigger gain of the breakaway but risking leaving their goalie out to dry if they didn't get the puck.
I'm not sure where you are seeing the stumble from green and teal here. The hit player lost the puck and we were both in good position for a pickup. Even so, green isn't intended to pick up the puck here, teal (myself) is since I want green to speed up for an up ice, in stride pass. I actually managed to grab the puck for a split second before the auto-stick check happens (stick on stick sounds) with the downed player miraculously recovering and he automatically takes it away from me.
I have seen this plenty of times before where a check animation is slower than the animation of a player being hit, recovering, and gaining control again.
Green didn't stumble but I was under the impression when watching on my phone earlier, that teal stumbled before trying the pickup, but it looks like it was just an incidental contact on two different puck pickup attempts.
There isn't an auto stick check, it is just that you can't drag your stick through another stick and keep control of the puck. You would need to gain control again on the other side. Then in this case, reaching behind yourself since you were skating away as you lost it, would be slower than the player reaching in front of themselves as they got up.
Green is the one that made the hit in this case and he recovered way before the fallen player. He just elected to skate away to try and get the bigger gain. So when teal wasn't able to get the puck clean he was caught up ice.
If we don't count the incidental stick on stick contact, the play probably works out as you intended but then there would be a lot of defensive scenarios where players just walk through players in good body position as well. As I mentioned in the other reply, we have talked about not counting stick on stick contact with fallen players and it is always a consideration for game balance and fidelity that the players have during pickups but so far the collisions are true in these scenarios as well.
The only people who care about leader boards are your HUT contingent. We dont get rewarded anything for EASHL leader boards, there is not even a year end tourney anymore so why should people care about the leader boards, LMAO. Stop defending this abomination of changes you have made and roll back the game already its what the core fan base wants. No one gives a crap about leader boards and where people place in the leader boards for EASHL because the game play is terrible and more random than ever so why should the leader boards even matter.
Bring back the beta tuner with the first change to poke checking and I guarantee you people will be praising the game play again, this was all the game really needed after release. But honestly at this point anything is better than the current state.
I'm not sure where you are seeing the stumble from green and teal here. The hit player lost the puck and we were both in good position for a pickup. Even so, green isn't intended to pick up the puck here, teal (myself) is since I want green to speed up for an up ice, in stride pass. I actually managed to grab the puck for a split second before the auto-stick check happens (stick on stick sounds) with the downed player miraculously recovering and he automatically takes it away from me.
I have seen this plenty of times before where a check animation is slower than the animation of a player being hit, recovering, and gaining control again.
Green didn't stumble but I was under the impression when watching on my phone earlier, that teal stumbled before trying the pickup, but it looks like it was just an incidental contact on two different puck pickup attempts.
There isn't an auto stick check, it is just that you can't drag your stick through another stick and keep control of the puck. You would need to gain control again on the other side. Then in this case, reaching behind yourself since you were skating away as you lost it, would be slower than the player reaching in front of themselves as they got up.
Green is the one that made the hit in this case and he recovered way before the fallen player. He just elected to skate away to try and get the bigger gain. So when teal wasn't able to get the puck clean he was caught up ice.
If we don't count the incidental stick on stick contact, the play probably works out as you intended but then there would be a lot of defensive scenarios where players just walk through players in good body position as well. As I mentioned in the other reply, we have talked about not counting stick on stick contact with fallen players and it is always a consideration for game balance and fidelity that the players have during pickups but so far the collisions are true in these scenarios as well.
Here's the frame where I have the puck. At this point, I'm already moving forward. In the next frame, as you say, there's incidental stick on stick contact and in this frame therein lines the problem for me.
I could accept that his stick knocked the puck away. I could accept that, at that point, it would be a short fight for the puck. I can even accept that a player who doesn't have control of his in-game avatar because the avatar is still getting up can disrupt the play.
What's hard to accept here is that with my momentum and the momentum of the puck, how incidental stick on stick suddenly stops the puck in its track. This is something I've seen before. Especially with shoves from behind, where a player is shoved from behind and the puck suddenly stops for the hitter to pick it up. I don't think anyone here is asking for something other-worldly to happen here. Just that there should be fair battles.
I'm not sure where you are seeing the stumble from green and teal here. The hit player lost the puck and we were both in good position for a pickup. Even so, green isn't intended to pick up the puck here, teal (myself) is since I want green to speed up for an up ice, in stride pass. I actually managed to grab the puck for a split second before the auto-stick check happens (stick on stick sounds) with the downed player miraculously recovering and he automatically takes it away from me.
I have seen this plenty of times before where a check animation is slower than the animation of a player being hit, recovering, and gaining control again.
Green didn't stumble but I was under the impression when watching on my phone earlier, that teal stumbled before trying the pickup, but it looks like it was just an incidental contact on two different puck pickup attempts.
There isn't an auto stick check, it is just that you can't drag your stick through another stick and keep control of the puck. You would need to gain control again on the other side. Then in this case, reaching behind yourself since you were skating away as you lost it, would be slower than the player reaching in front of themselves as they got up.
Green is the one that made the hit in this case and he recovered way before the fallen player. He just elected to skate away to try and get the bigger gain. So when teal wasn't able to get the puck clean he was caught up ice.
If we don't count the incidental stick on stick contact, the play probably works out as you intended but then there would be a lot of defensive scenarios where players just walk through players in good body position as well. As I mentioned in the other reply, we have talked about not counting stick on stick contact with fallen players and it is always a consideration for game balance and fidelity that the players have during pickups but so far the collisions are true in these scenarios as well.
Here's the frame where I have the puck. At this point, I'm already moving forward. In the next frame, as you say, there's incidental stick on stick contact and in this frame therein lines the problem for me.
I could accept that his stick knocked the puck away. I could accept that, at that point, it would be a short fight for the puck. I can even accept that a player who doesn't have control of his in-game avatar because the avatar is still getting up can disrupt the play.
What's hard to accept here is that with my momentum and the momentum of the puck, how incidental stick on stick suddenly stops the puck in its track. This is something I've seen before. Especially with shoves from behind, where a player is shoved from behind and the puck suddenly stops for the hitter to pick it up. I don't think anyone here is asking for something other-worldly to happen here. Just that there should be fair battles.
Exactly this. The momentum of the puck is so wildly inconsistent in this game.
The only people who care about leader boards are your HUT contingent. We dont get rewarded anything for EASHL leader boards, there is not even a year end tourney anymore so why should people care about the leader boards, LMAO. Stop defending this abomination of changes you have made and roll back the game already its what the core fan base wants. No one gives a crap about leader boards and where people place in the leader boards for EASHL because the game play is terrible and more random than ever so why should the leader boards even matter.
Bring back the beta tuner with the first change to poke checking and I guarantee you people will be praising the game play again, this was all the game really needed after release. But honestly at this point anything is better than the current state.
ROLL BACK THE GAME TUNER FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
There is no defending. It is all just discussion around what was attempted and why. I see merits to both sides. It should be a feather in our cap that people liked the game more that we tuned in isolation before anyone from the broad community played the game or gave feedback.
If I was tuning a game just for myself, it would be full sim and most people would hate it.
I can appreciate and have fun with something as extreme as Arcade Threes Gameplay and as a game designer, I set a direction for what we want to achieve with a style like that and stick to those pillars when tuning a mode like that rather than trying to figure out how it could be better as a full sim experience.
I can have a lot of fun with the current and past VS tuning as well and when creating that game style we have a direction we stick to and the tuning before and after both fit under those high level goals -- but sub pieces can still shift as you try and make improvements to an area of the game which will open up feedback on the other side and people start to realize why it was tuned that way in the first place.
The game can also make me frustrated at times and there are a lot of pieces I would love to improve. I am not here to defend that the game can't be improved and that it is fine as is because the only reason I am still working on it is because I know we can get better and I want to see that happen. I am proud of what the team gets accomplished every year though so there is still part of me that prefers to get into the details with people around the improvements rather than being black and white about it being either good or bad.
The only people who care about leader boards are your HUT contingent. We dont get rewarded anything for EASHL leader boards, there is not even a year end tourney anymore so why should people care about the leader boards, LMAO. Stop defending this abomination of changes you have made and roll back the game already its what the core fan base wants. No one gives a crap about leader boards and where people place in the leader boards for EASHL because the game play is terrible and more random than ever so why should the leader boards even matter.
Bring back the beta tuner with the first change to poke checking and I guarantee you people will be praising the game play again, this was all the game really needed after release. But honestly at this point anything is better than the current state.
ROLL BACK THE GAME TUNER FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
There is no defending. It is all just discussion around what was attempted and why. I see merits to both sides. It should be a feather in our cap that people liked the game more that we tuned in isolation before anyone from the broad community played the game or gave feedback.
If I was tuning a game just for myself, it would be full sim and most people would hate it.
I can appreciate and have fun with something as extreme as Arcade Threes Gameplay and as a game designer, I set a direction for what we want to achieve with a style like that and stick to those pillars when tuning a mode like that rather than trying to figure out how it could be better as a full sim experience.
I can have a lot of fun with the current and past VS tuning as well and when creating that game style we have a direction we stick to and the tuning before and after both fit under those high level goals -- but sub pieces can still shift as you try and make improvements to an area of the game which will open up feedback on the other side and people start to realize why it was tuned that way in the first place.
The game can also make me frustrated at times and there are a lot of pieces I would love to improve. I am not here to defend that the game can't be improved and that it is fine as is because the only reason I am still working on it is because I know we can get better and I want to see that happen. I am proud of what the team gets accomplished every year though so there is still part of me that prefers to get into the details with people around the improvements rather than being black and white about it being either good or bad.
Honestly I appreciate that you take the time to respond to me and other disgruntled players and I mean no disrespect but this response means nothing to me when the game play is in the state it is in now.
I have been playing this game for long time, since Sega Genesis. I expect the game to become more and more realistic as the years go on as you guys try to make improvements and advances but it still needs to be fun and rewarding and the past 2-3 years it most certainly has not been that. Whenever incidental contact was introduced is when the game really started to take a turn for the worse because this mechanic in the game in my opinion is not properly coded and breaks the flow of the game way too much, I understand the non realism factor without incidental contact but it does not work well. The beta/early state game play was a breath of fresh air because it was a huge step away from the style that has been played for the past few years to win and be effective which has given most of the community no interest in grinding the game.
A roll back to early state game play and possibly looking at it as wiping the slate clean and starting over to what people actually enjoyed and taking it from there is the logical step to take. Trying to fix what the current state of the game is in while keeping it as is will likely just make more problems. There is no harm in rolling back and judging by the vast majority of posters on this forum and the Leaguegaming community AS A WHOLE they want that, so why not just give the people who buy and play your game what they want as there is a very small minority of people who would be against this.
As far as my opinion as to where the game took a bad turn and which changes made probably caused them in 19.
The differential change in skating in player builds/ Before this change every build could skate and not get caught in awkward turns but they still all had their strengths and weaknesses and was well balanced aside from the breakaway speed in open ice(what we really wanted to be addressed). Now its basically back to the way the cookie cutter builds from 16-18 feel with no real uniqueness throughout the builds. Its basically just 2 build styles; a fast build that can skate or a slow build that can defend. Why cant we have the best of both worlds in the athleticism of our builds(like it was in the beta) and by effect make the skill gap in this game actual hockey IQ and the ability to make plays and get to good scoring areas. Right now the only skill gap in EASHL is the ability to control your skater and how well you can find the lanes for rebound goals or tips.
The change in the LT pivot/ Forwards don't have very many tools these days to gain separation and break a trap. The trap has become a stable of every active teams strategy so much so that you see it in every game now, almost like an epidemic. The way the LT pivot worked although I understand not realistic was a fantastic way to break the trap by attacking it and pivoting on defenders standing still. This also forced people to step out of the shape a lot more and take chances on hits or a risky poking play.
Bumps from Behind Fix/ Not a fix at all, just reintroduced that unbreakable bubble again in all aspects of the game for a puck carrier. In all honesty this is the worst thing you could have done to counteract the bumps from behind. There wasn't even anything wrong with the bumps, people were solely complaining about them from behind on breakaways. Prefix the contact was realistic and rewarding, now most of the time you slide off and completely miss and people are abusing the bubble once again.
Poke check Update number 2/ The first poke check patch was fine it fixed a lot of the issues people were having with poking cross body and into areas they were facing and still gave penalties for the times when people shouldn't be poking and playing the body. After the 2nd fix or update to poke checking is when I saw people just start to use it thoughtlessly again and it took a lot of the space away because people just reverted to poking in a trap again.
Honestly I appreciate that you take the time to respond to me and other disgruntled players and I mean no disrespect but this response means nothing to me when the game play is in the state it is in now.
Fair enough. Appreciate the honesty. I will cut down on the time I put into replying to you personally.
Honestly I appreciate that you take the time to respond to me and other disgruntled players and I mean no disrespect but this response means nothing to me when the game play is in the state it is in now.
Fair enough. Appreciate the honesty. I will cut down on the time I put into replying to you personally.
the problem with this clip is the same problem in most "hitting" situations. I player is skating hard, carrying the puck, and gets hit and instead of the puck continuing on (separating the player from the puck) the puck just stops dead. this happens all the time and really shouldn't ever happen. what happens afterwards is clunky physics and puck pickup mechanisms. If instead of this situation, the physics actually worked and when a player gets hit like this the puck slides away out into open ice, then the closest defender (or even offensive player) could skate in and do something with the puck... kind of like real hockey.
That’s a valid point. I didn’t mind the ‘agressive’ Shoving in earlier tuners..at all..in fact I liked it while playing on both sides of the puck. The only issue was Velcro puck. Ie shove enacted.. puck stops dead. The rest of it was fine.
All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
Replies
that's pretty bad.
That clip is exactly what makes me so confused. How is what we see here better than being shoved off the puck? This is why so many people have quit. Myself and 7 club members stopped playing because of this. Don't know how anyone can look at that clip and say it's better than 1.0.
I wish we could pick our own tuners for online. Just let everyone list the tuner they want to play under in matchmaking. EA is so convinced 1.03 is preferred, maybe they'd finally get it if people were allowed to pick. I bet 90% or more people would play on pre-1.03.
Let their "elite players" be the only willing participants in the 1.03 glitch-a-thon
That's exactly what me and my club members were saying. We said if only we could play the tuner we wanted online. Like if EA gave us the option to pick 1.01 or 1.03, I'm sure it would make everyone happy.
The "elite players" would get their fun playing against each other, and the other 90% as you say would have fun playing real hockey.
I played a few games of versus the last few days, all I could be bothered to do. 3 of the 4 games I played turned into puck rag fests. It's not even worth playing anymore. All I do is check the forums and hope to god EA goes back to 1.0. Though unlikely, one can hope. lol
The hit from the player wasn’t a push check at low relative speed. The collision resulted in a stumble fall (which would have to do with the variables between the players sizes, attributes and quality of the collision). The defensive player arriving second, stumbled on the fallen player. The first hitter left without ensuring they got the puck as did the second player once he recovered from the stumble, unable to pull the puck through the other players body.
The ai player doesn’t recognize right away that the other players are going to skate away and covers the pass option and the puck carrier walks in and scores. In other situations people call out the ai for overly covering the puck that is already covered and leaving the pass option open.
To help the result you are after, we could allow players to pickup pucks without recognizing incidental stick on body contact but in most cases that would actually hinder defense as more players could force passes and pickup pucks walking through a closely marking defender rather than that body positioning mattering.
We did listen to players and improved our hit reactions and get up mechanics to be tied more to the hit magnitude and the stamina of the player hit so that the hittin team was more likely to recover pucks when players were knocked down with big hits but in this case it was a stumble fall and not a full fall so the recovery time is quicker.
I never touched the player? I felt my controller vibrate when I finished my “check”. No he didn’t perfectly time anything. Gliding like that woulda got him decked if it weren’t for the invisible bubble.
We aren’t ‘so convinced’. What I write on these boards are some explanations behind the thought process. Sometimes people say ‘hmm makes sense’. Other times they say ‘Makes sense, but you went too far’ and other times they just say ‘Nah, it was way better before’.
At the end of the day when I say we are listening, it is because we are. We are actively trying other tuning all the time to see what the results are like and continuing to watch unedited games played at all levels online to see things with our own eyes rather than just read personal reviews and hand picked videos of certain moments that could have gone better. We need to consider a bigger picture than that but we still read all the individual details and watch the clips for context and to see/hear things through other eyes as well.
I'm not sure where you are seeing the stumble from green and teal here. The hit player lost the puck and we were both in good position for a pickup. Even so, green isn't intended to pick up the puck here, teal (myself) is since I want green to speed up for an up ice, in stride pass. I actually managed to grab the puck for a split second before the auto-stick check happens (stick on stick sounds) with the downed player miraculously recovering and he automatically takes it away from me.
I have seen this plenty of times before where a check animation is slower than the animation of a player being hit, recovering, and gaining control again.
I believe y'all are listening, otherwise you wouldn't be here posting, and we all appreciate that. As far as fragmenting the player base, I understand that concern, and I think unhappiness with the current tuner is decreasing the player base more severely than a "select a tuner" option. Personally, I only play NHL when I just need to play some hockey, and log off after a game or two max. With the old tuners I played as long as I could and was never bored.
I know leaderboards matter to some people (they don't to me), but why would they need to be affected by a "choose your tuner" setting? I mean, they could be separated (like 6s leaderboards and non-6s leaderboards were separated), but would they have to be? And if were, they wouldn't require more than two leaderboards. There's no need for a leaderboard for each tuner. If they must be separated, have one board for the current official tuner, and one board for all previous tuners combined.
I know how much more helpful data are over player posts, and it seems like y'all could collect data on which tuners are preferred by allowing player selection in matchmaking. You guys could see the numbers on which tuners are preferred, which would probably be extremely valuable to y'all to evaluate player desires.
We have considered not having incidental stick contact impacted by fallen players for situations like that one in favor of some balance and lack of fidelity for the player picking up t he puck but so far we have elected for the stick on stick and stick on body reactions to be true even if the player is down on the ice. So although we could add that code, it isn't in there now and that is why that play happens the way it does. These guys know those are the current mechanics and elected to risk jumping up without the puck for the bigger gain of the breakaway but risking leaving their goalie out to dry if they didn't get the puck.
Green didn't stumble but I was under the impression when watching on my phone earlier, that teal stumbled before trying the pickup, but it looks like it was just an incidental contact on two different puck pickup attempts.
There isn't an auto stick check, it is just that you can't drag your stick through another stick and keep control of the puck. You would need to gain control again on the other side. Then in this case, reaching behind yourself since you were skating away as you lost it, would be slower than the player reaching in front of themselves as they got up.
Green is the one that made the hit in this case and he recovered way before the fallen player. He just elected to skate away to try and get the bigger gain. So when teal wasn't able to get the puck clean he was caught up ice.
If we don't count the incidental stick on stick contact, the play probably works out as you intended but then there would be a lot of defensive scenarios where players just walk through players in good body position as well. As I mentioned in the other reply, we have talked about not counting stick on stick contact with fallen players and it is always a consideration for game balance and fidelity that the players have during pickups but so far the collisions are true in these scenarios as well.
Bring back the beta tuner with the first change to poke checking and I guarantee you people will be praising the game play again, this was all the game really needed after release. But honestly at this point anything is better than the current state.
ROLL BACK THE GAME TUNER FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.
Here's the frame where I have the puck. At this point, I'm already moving forward. In the next frame, as you say, there's incidental stick on stick contact and in this frame therein lines the problem for me.
I could accept that his stick knocked the puck away. I could accept that, at that point, it would be a short fight for the puck. I can even accept that a player who doesn't have control of his in-game avatar because the avatar is still getting up can disrupt the play.
What's hard to accept here is that with my momentum and the momentum of the puck, how incidental stick on stick suddenly stops the puck in its track. This is something I've seen before. Especially with shoves from behind, where a player is shoved from behind and the puck suddenly stops for the hitter to pick it up. I don't think anyone here is asking for something other-worldly to happen here. Just that there should be fair battles.
Exactly this. The momentum of the puck is so wildly inconsistent in this game.
There is no defending. It is all just discussion around what was attempted and why. I see merits to both sides. It should be a feather in our cap that people liked the game more that we tuned in isolation before anyone from the broad community played the game or gave feedback.
If I was tuning a game just for myself, it would be full sim and most people would hate it.
I can appreciate and have fun with something as extreme as Arcade Threes Gameplay and as a game designer, I set a direction for what we want to achieve with a style like that and stick to those pillars when tuning a mode like that rather than trying to figure out how it could be better as a full sim experience.
I can have a lot of fun with the current and past VS tuning as well and when creating that game style we have a direction we stick to and the tuning before and after both fit under those high level goals -- but sub pieces can still shift as you try and make improvements to an area of the game which will open up feedback on the other side and people start to realize why it was tuned that way in the first place.
The game can also make me frustrated at times and there are a lot of pieces I would love to improve. I am not here to defend that the game can't be improved and that it is fine as is because the only reason I am still working on it is because I know we can get better and I want to see that happen. I am proud of what the team gets accomplished every year though so there is still part of me that prefers to get into the details with people around the improvements rather than being black and white about it being either good or bad.
Honestly I appreciate that you take the time to respond to me and other disgruntled players and I mean no disrespect but this response means nothing to me when the game play is in the state it is in now.
I have been playing this game for long time, since Sega Genesis. I expect the game to become more and more realistic as the years go on as you guys try to make improvements and advances but it still needs to be fun and rewarding and the past 2-3 years it most certainly has not been that. Whenever incidental contact was introduced is when the game really started to take a turn for the worse because this mechanic in the game in my opinion is not properly coded and breaks the flow of the game way too much, I understand the non realism factor without incidental contact but it does not work well. The beta/early state game play was a breath of fresh air because it was a huge step away from the style that has been played for the past few years to win and be effective which has given most of the community no interest in grinding the game.
A roll back to early state game play and possibly looking at it as wiping the slate clean and starting over to what people actually enjoyed and taking it from there is the logical step to take. Trying to fix what the current state of the game is in while keeping it as is will likely just make more problems. There is no harm in rolling back and judging by the vast majority of posters on this forum and the Leaguegaming community AS A WHOLE they want that, so why not just give the people who buy and play your game what they want as there is a very small minority of people who would be against this.
As far as my opinion as to where the game took a bad turn and which changes made probably caused them in 19.
The differential change in skating in player builds/ Before this change every build could skate and not get caught in awkward turns but they still all had their strengths and weaknesses and was well balanced aside from the breakaway speed in open ice(what we really wanted to be addressed). Now its basically back to the way the cookie cutter builds from 16-18 feel with no real uniqueness throughout the builds. Its basically just 2 build styles; a fast build that can skate or a slow build that can defend. Why cant we have the best of both worlds in the athleticism of our builds(like it was in the beta) and by effect make the skill gap in this game actual hockey IQ and the ability to make plays and get to good scoring areas. Right now the only skill gap in EASHL is the ability to control your skater and how well you can find the lanes for rebound goals or tips.
The change in the LT pivot/ Forwards don't have very many tools these days to gain separation and break a trap. The trap has become a stable of every active teams strategy so much so that you see it in every game now, almost like an epidemic. The way the LT pivot worked although I understand not realistic was a fantastic way to break the trap by attacking it and pivoting on defenders standing still. This also forced people to step out of the shape a lot more and take chances on hits or a risky poking play.
Bumps from Behind Fix/ Not a fix at all, just reintroduced that unbreakable bubble again in all aspects of the game for a puck carrier. In all honesty this is the worst thing you could have done to counteract the bumps from behind. There wasn't even anything wrong with the bumps, people were solely complaining about them from behind on breakaways. Prefix the contact was realistic and rewarding, now most of the time you slide off and completely miss and people are abusing the bubble once again.
Poke check Update number 2/ The first poke check patch was fine it fixed a lot of the issues people were having with poking cross body and into areas they were facing and still gave penalties for the times when people shouldn't be poking and playing the body. After the 2nd fix or update to poke checking is when I saw people just start to use it thoughtlessly again and it took a lot of the space away because people just reverted to poking in a trap again.
the problem with this clip is the same problem in most "hitting" situations. I player is skating hard, carrying the puck, and gets hit and instead of the puck continuing on (separating the player from the puck) the puck just stops dead. this happens all the time and really shouldn't ever happen. what happens afterwards is clunky physics and puck pickup mechanisms. If instead of this situation, the physics actually worked and when a player gets hit like this the puck slides away out into open ice, then the closest defender (or even offensive player) could skate in and do something with the puck... kind of like real hockey.