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And just like that...the optimism faded

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  • NHLDev wrote: »

    This discussion does raise another question in my mind. When it comes to deflections is there a separate calculation done for the goalie's reaction after the deflection occurs? It seems like the AI goalie ability to react to a deflected shot is almost preternatural, but on shots where there's more time for the goalie to see the puck coming he's slower to react.

    Yes, the goalie has to react again to a deflection. Remember that they are still reacting to the original shot though so if the deflection isn't a great one, they may still be hit by the puck incidentally or even be late on their next save to the deflected puck position but still get hit with it.

    Really? I've seen the most miraculous deflection saves in tight over the years. Cross grain tips far side where goalies sprawl out to get a blocker on them and whatnot.

    It really does feel premeditated because even as a human goalie you can receive the slowest redirection in the world and your goalie will literally open up his legs to allow the puck through.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Yes, the goalie has to react again to a deflection. Remember that they are still reacting to the original shot though so if the deflection isn't a great one, they may still be hit by the puck incidentally or even be late on their next save to the deflected puck position but still get hit with it.

    Makes sense. I guess it just seems odd to me that in the video I posted there's no ability for the goalie to "correct" his save attempt as the puck gets closer to him, but if the puck was tipped a few feet in front of him on the same type of shot he'd react to the change in direction and break out of the save animation into a new one to try to stop the puck.

    I'm sure it's something that may result in more problems than it solves, but it would be nice to see the ability of the goalie to make those kinds of split-second corrections without the deflections to trigger it.

  • NHLDev
    1669 posts EA NHL Developer
    VeNOM2099 wrote: »
    Sorry I'm late in replying, but I had to go get thrashed in a couple of LG games last night. :/

    But to answer you, yes, as time is ticking down, shots on net become much more dangerous as the players and the goalies nerves are probably tested in a very tight contest. I get it that humans can make mistakes as pressure mounts. However how is it a human's mistake when he has his digital avatar on screen standing in front of an errant puck and he fails to pick it up? As far as I know picking pucks up is an automated thing handled by the game.

    As for skillzoning, much like the people who dispute the existence of "ice tilt" and "DDA", I dispute the existence of "skillzoning". I think what people call "skillzoning" is actually playing good defense. Players were being forced to shoot from the perimeter because they couldn't get into the slot? You mean they were being forced to play HOCKEY? In a HOCKEY Game? The Calamity!!! :scream:

    Not "any" shot, but very many shots are dangerous when they really don't have any business being so. Unscreened shots from the point or the high slot or the top of the face off circles. Shots from the red line from like 3-5 feet out that always handcuff the goalies (especially when the player veers away from the net and just shoots an FAF - Fire and Forget- type of shot at you).

    On the positive side, you'll notice I stopped complaining about the goalies so much. The last tuner/patch changes have improved things tremendously, even though there are still some things left to iron out like the puck covers (still too slow) and post to post movement (still too slow). I like how the paddle down blending out from post works so much faster and smoother now. I can actually watch my post and still move to make a save if I need to!

    Your handywork in play (at the beginning and ending of the clip):

    https://clips.twitch.tv/SmilingPhilanthropicPelicanBrokeBack

    So thanks for that! :smiley:

    Great to hear that the improvements to goalies are well noticed.

    What I meant in the dying seconds is that just like real hockey, if a shot happens to go in with no time left to respond, the stakes are way higher than letting one in earlier, so was just a big of extra commentary on your previous stream where it was that much more nerve-wracking as shots were coming in within the dying seconds.

    I don't disagree about skillzone but definitely understood the debate about requiring less human user skill to manually defend the puck on defense when the ai was helping get it back. From Day 1 of the Beta this year, we had defensive actions against the active puck carrier off. The latest changes were just lowering their aggression a bit more to encourage players to manually pressure the puck if they wanted to do so with more urgency. If they sat back, the puck carrier would have a bit more time.

    I often gave the counter arguments in the skill zone discussion saying that it isn't the defenders responsibility to chase a puck carrier into the corner to be seen as 'actively playing defense' and to not be called out as the problem if the puck carrier wasn't a threat and only looking for that pass across. And I still feel that way. The way the game is tuned now, you can choose to actively defend or stay a bit more passive protecting the pass. Just when doing that, the ai won't aggressively pin the puck carrier and get the puck back for you, so you have to make some choices what you are going to do manually.

    Each change we make, we learn something. We do a lot of balance testing internally and as soon as the game is in the wild, we get exponentially more data and views on play styles that we may not have seen before. So we keep an eye on that and see how the game is playing relative to what we originally intended and make changes where it makes sense. The tuners this year are no different and I have some theories on where things can further be improved but like the changes we have made so far, we don't want to change something without enough thought and time to see how things settle after people adapt to the changes.


  • In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Actually quite a few Gamechangers were voted for by the community. The ones with popular Youtube channels and whatnot got a free pass foar as I know. Wonder why...

    It's seems then that EA caters more to the streamers then
  • In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Actually quite a few Gamechangers were voted for by the community. The ones with popular Youtube channels and whatnot got a free pass far as I know. Wonder why...

    It's seems then that EA caters more to the streamers then

    We can speculate, but I can't confirm. I am in the dark as much as you.
  • If you like the changes you've made thus far, I'm in serious doubt you guys are going in the right direction. Have you not been reading what everybody has been saying on these forums?
  • If you like the changes you've made thus far, I'm in serious doubt you guys are going in the right direction. Have you not been reading what everybody has been saying on these forums?

    Dunno what to say man...

    We have been playing "EA" hockey for over 10 years. Few weeks ago, we were permitted to play hockey. Now it's back to "EA" hockey. From the general consensus I gathered through friends, random dropin players, clubmates and here and there on the interwebbernets, people are tired of "EA" hockey and want to play hockey. Just like we had a month ago. I haven't heard a single player tell me the game is now awesome. I however hear many saying things like, yup, EA hockey is back. Yup, of course. Yup, this is dumb, etc... It just isn't organic or believable hockey and people are noticing.

    I am willing to state right here and now for the record, it will not change back to what was fun.
  • LeFury_27
    203 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Actually quite a few Gamechangers were voted for by the community. The ones with popular Youtube channels and whatnot got a free pass foar as I know. Wonder why...

    It's seems then that EA caters more to the streamers then

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. They don't want popular streamers and youtubers complaining so they only care to please them, which is a poor decision. Most people who play NHL 19 games don't play it because of them. It's a shame they will ignore us and keep going the way they are. Unfortunate but I guess there is other games to play.

    Beta tuner won't come back, they don't want popular streamers/youtubers/game changers whining again.

    Seems they are only worried about attracting new players and are quite content with po'ing people who already bought the game.

    Back in beta tuner you could lose a game by 5 goals and still have fun. With this tuner when you win it's boring hockey. lol

    What I've also noticed in versus is people quit right after you score 1-2 goals, I never seen that once on release tuner. Seems this tuner makes people rage at the game, and I guess it's understandable why.
    Post edited by LeFury_27 on
  • LeFury_27 wrote: »
    In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Actually quite a few Gamechangers were voted for by the community. The ones with popular Youtube channels and whatnot got a free pass foar as I know. Wonder why...

    It's seems then that EA caters more to the streamers then

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. They don't want popular streamers and youtubers complaining so they only care to please them, which is a poor decision. Most people who play NHL 19 games don't play it because of them. It's a shame they will ignore us and keep going the way they are. Unfortunate but I guess there is other games to play.

    Beta tuner won't come back, they don't want popular streamers/youtubers/game changers whining again.

    Seems they are only worried about attracting new players and are quite content with po'ing people who already bought the game.

    Back in beta tuner you could lose a game by 5 goals and still have fun. With this tuner when you win it's boring hockey. lol

    What I've also noticed in versus is people quit right after you score 1-2 goals, I never seen that once on release tuner. Seems this tuner makes people rage at the game, and I guess it's understandable why.

    I feel exactly the same. Winning can still be boring.... So sad.

    The only way this game gets really fun is when you can goof around on the mics.
  • LeFury_27 wrote: »
    In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Actually quite a few Gamechangers were voted for by the community. The ones with popular Youtube channels and whatnot got a free pass foar as I know. Wonder why...

    It's seems then that EA caters more to the streamers then

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. They don't want popular streamers and youtubers complaining so they only care to please them, which is a poor decision. Most people who play NHL 19 games don't play it because of them. It's a shame they will ignore us and keep going the way they are. Unfortunate but I guess there is other games to play.

    Beta tuner won't come back, they don't want popular streamers/youtubers/game changers whining again.

    Seems they are only worried about attracting new players and are quite content with po'ing people who already bought the game.

    Back in beta tuner you could lose a game by 5 goals and still have fun. With this tuner when you win it's boring hockey. lol

    What I've also noticed in versus is people quit right after you score 1-2 goals, I never seen that once on release tuner. Seems this tuner makes people rage at the game, and I guess it's understandable why.

    I quit when I see it's going to be one of the those circle around and around games or that guy that is constantly looking for that cheesy short side shot to me it's still just a game so I do want to have fun ,the beta was so much fun ,after the tuners this game now just lacks creativity and boring
  • LeFury_27
    203 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Actually quite a few Gamechangers were voted for by the community. The ones with popular Youtube channels and whatnot got a free pass foar as I know. Wonder why...

    It's seems then that EA caters more to the streamers then

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. They don't want popular streamers and youtubers complaining so they only care to please them, which is a poor decision. Most people who play NHL 19 games don't play it because of them. It's a shame they will ignore us and keep going the way they are. Unfortunate but I guess there is other games to play.

    Beta tuner won't come back, they don't want popular streamers/youtubers/game changers whining again.

    Seems they are only worried about attracting new players and are quite content with po'ing people who already bought the game.

    Back in beta tuner you could lose a game by 5 goals and still have fun. With this tuner when you win it's boring hockey. lol

    What I've also noticed in versus is people quit right after you score 1-2 goals, I never seen that once on release tuner. Seems this tuner makes people rage at the game, and I guess it's understandable why.

    I quit when I see it's going to be one of the those circle around and around games or that guy that is constantly looking for that cheesy short side shot to me it's still just a game so I do want to have fun ,the beta was so much fun ,after the tuners this game now just lacks creativity and boring

    Same here. The beta was so awesome because it removed cheese, constant puck ragging and it felt like a whole new game. A fresh game that was fast and fun. They made a huge mistake going backwards to NHL 18 just to please a few whiners and a handful of popular streamers. NHL 19 now feels like the last 5-6 NHL games with a few hundred dress up items and ones. Truly disappointing.

    I'm actually annoyed I didn't play more before these tuners came into play. Had I known EA was going to ruin the game for good just a month in I would have.
  • LeFury_27 wrote: »
    LeFury_27 wrote: »
    In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Actually quite a few Gamechangers were voted for by the community. The ones with popular Youtube channels and whatnot got a free pass foar as I know. Wonder why...

    It's seems then that EA caters more to the streamers then

    Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. They don't want popular streamers and youtubers complaining so they only care to please them, which is a poor decision. Most people who play NHL 19 games don't play it because of them. It's a shame they will ignore us and keep going the way they are. Unfortunate but I guess there is other games to play.

    Beta tuner won't come back, they don't want popular streamers/youtubers/game changers whining again.

    Seems they are only worried about attracting new players and are quite content with po'ing people who already bought the game.

    Back in beta tuner you could lose a game by 5 goals and still have fun. With this tuner when you win it's boring hockey. lol

    What I've also noticed in versus is people quit right after you score 1-2 goals, I never seen that once on release tuner. Seems this tuner makes people rage at the game, and I guess it's understandable why.

    I quit when I see it's going to be one of the those circle around and around games or that guy that is constantly looking for that cheesy short side shot to me it's still just a game so I do want to have fun ,the beta was so much fun ,after the tuners this game now just lacks creativity and boring

    Same here. The beta was so awesome because it removed cheese, constant puck ragging and it felt like a whole new game. A fresh game that was fast and fun. They made a huge mistake going backwards to NHL 18 just to please a few whiners and a handful of popular streamers. NHL 19 now feels like the last 5-6 NHL games with a few hundred dress up items and ones. Truly disappointing.

    I'm actually annoyed I didn't play more before these tuners came into play. Had I known EA was going to ruin the game for good just a month in I would have.

    Agreed.

    I wouldn't have purchased the game honestly because I was not expecting to buy 18.2

    I bought 19, I want 19 back. Plain and simple. Marketing team can take a year off for 20 because I have lost all trust.
  • magicmittsmase
    139 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    @WainGretSki I would pay another $60 for them to re-release the beta tuner version of this game and I would never buy another copy of NHL again. Sad part is, I think the majority of the player base would do the same. If by the grace of the good lord above I purchase next years version, it will be post Christmas and I would need to have put multiple hours into the game before providing my hard earned $. This was the only game I looked forward to this year, and every year for that matter, and it's simply unplayable at this stage. For a guy who spends 95% of his time playing VS mode, the things that plague the game the most are most prevalent in this game mode, IMO (cheesers and/or wigglers, dumb AI decision making, puck raggers, you name it).
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited November 2018
    @WainGretSki I would pay another $60 for them to re-release the beta tuner version of this game and I would never buy another copy of NHL again. Sad part is, I think the majority of the player base would do the same. If by the grace of the good lord above I purchase next years version, it will be post Christmas and I would need to have put multiple hours into the game before providing my hard earned $. This was the only game I looked forward to this year, and every year for that matter, and it's simply unplayable at this stage. For a guy who spends 95% of his time playing VS mode, the things that plague the game the most are most prevalent in this game mode, IMO (cheesers and/or wigglers, dumb AI decision making, puck raggers, you name it).

    Yea I read ya man. I am extremely disappointed to say the least. They even paid PK Subban to rant and rave about how everyone will get hit this year. Did they do this knowing they would nerf this feature? Is that money spent the reason why goal horns aren't in the game?

    Seriously, I feel duped and shafted.
  • In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Yes. Or stop it altogether.
  • LeFury_27 wrote: »
    In my opinion these guys should be voted in by the community or should be changed every year because let's be real some of them really aren't thinking about what's good for the game or for the community

    Agreed, I don't know how some of them got picked but they certainly as hell are not on the same page as the community. NHL 19 as we've said was the most hyped NHL game in a decade and for some reason EA thought that the game changers who wanted cheese goals and no defense were speaking for the community, like what? I'm sick and tired of this, we finally get a good game and these guys have to go and ruin it for us because they can't score with their cheese methods that they spent months figuring out how to perfect. Far from "elite". lol

    Spent years.
  • NHLDev wrote: »

    This discussion does raise another question in my mind. When it comes to deflections is there a separate calculation done for the goalie's reaction after the deflection occurs? It seems like the AI goalie ability to react to a deflected shot is almost preternatural, but on shots where there's more time for the goalie to see the puck coming he's slower to react.

    Yes, the goalie has to react again to a deflection. Remember that they are still reacting to the original shot though so if the deflection isn't a great one, they may still be hit by the puck incidentally or even be late on their next save to the deflected puck position but still get hit with it.

    Is there a reason that the shot-pass/tip slows the actual tip on goal since last year. I mean I understand its likely not going to be like old gen but it is crazy slow now. If you are able to get a slap pass cross seam onto a players stick <5 feet from the net it should go in more often than not. But the actual shot on net comes off the tip so slow the goalie gets there with time to spare.

    This kind of goes for the regular tip in as well. Most are slowed down too much IMO.
  • @WainGretSki I would pay another $60 for them to re-release the beta tuner version of this game and I would never buy another copy of NHL again. Sad part is, I think the majority of the player base would do the same. If by the grace of the good lord above I purchase next years version, it will be post Christmas and I would need to have put multiple hours into the game before providing my hard earned $. This was the only game I looked forward to this year, and every year for that matter, and it's simply unplayable at this stage. For a guy who spends 95% of his time playing VS mode, the things that plague the game the most are most prevalent in this game mode, IMO (cheesers and/or wigglers, dumb AI decision making, puck raggers, you name it).

    Yea I read ya man. I am extremely disappointed to say the least. They even paid PK Subban to rant and rave about how everyone will get hit this year. Did they do this knowing they would nerf this feature? Is that money spent the reason why goal horns aren't in the game?

    Seriously, I feel duped and shafted.

    I paid 100 for this game seeing how much better it was than the last 4 years ,and yet I would pay for another game if it played liked the beta and if the some of the game changers stayed away from it .. lol
  • Since we all feel sluggish and they said agility was tuned..how about we keep the spread adjustment @NHLDev said and just bump everyone’s baseline up 2-3 points(I’ve thebold 1-10scale). The fun we’re all missing is a fluidity caused in part by the quickness which was present that first great week(missed the beta).

    Also, for clarity. Quick starts and stops. Mostly straight line stuff really. Or at least start there. Overall much of the tuning and play is good it’s just missing this one key ingredient to tie it all together

    Appreciate the dev feedback. Let’s stay productive.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Cheeser from the blue line lol

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