It sucks that ragging the puck and waiting for defender to move out of position to cheese a short side goal is now more effective than making good creative passing plays.
The only way to counter this, don’t chase him around and get out of position. He will get frustrated soon enough and do something stupid.
It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
It sucks that ragging the puck and waiting for defender to move out of position to cheese a short side goal is now more effective than making good creative passing plays.
The only way to counter this, don’t chase him around and get out of position. He will get frustrated soon enough and do something stupid.
It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
Yea no kidding.
It's almost as amazing as those who don't understand the difference between a shot and a scoring chance. You do realize some players out there are new to this franchise? You know it is possible some people play this game, yet don't grasp basic fundamentals to this sport? Would you care to guess what percentage of the player base doesn't even know how to skate in real life? You do realize some people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does to them, so all this cheese just breeds more cheese?
It sucks that ragging the puck and waiting for defender to move out of position to cheese a short side goal is now more effective than making good creative passing plays.
The only way to counter this, don’t chase him around and get out of position. He will get frustrated soon enough and do something stupid.
It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
Yea no kidding.
It's almost as amazing as those who don't understand the difference between a shot and a scoring chance. You do realize some players out there are new to this franchise? You know it is possible some people play this game, yet don't grasp basic fundamentals to this sport? Would you care to guess what percentage of the player base doesn't even know how to skate in real life? You do realize some people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does to them, so all this cheese just breeds more cheese?
lol wut?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...
Is is that people who are inexperienced in the actual sport of hockey should still be successful in this game? And their lack of hockey knowledge is somehow EA's responsibility? You want EA to squash the skill gap between people who know hockey and people who don't? How would you even define that, if somehow a ridiculous handicap like that was added to the game?
Of course I understand that people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does.
The failure on those who come here to complain about 'cheese goals' is that they are too focused on what their opponent is doing rather than what they themselves can be doing to nullify those high % scoring chances....
It sucks that ragging the puck and waiting for defender to move out of position to cheese a short side goal is now more effective than making good creative passing plays.
The only way to counter this, don’t chase him around and get out of position. He will get frustrated soon enough and do something stupid.
It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
Yea no kidding.
It's almost as amazing as those who don't understand the difference between a shot and a scoring chance. You do realize some players out there are new to this franchise? You know it is possible some people play this game, yet don't grasp basic fundamentals to this sport? Would you care to guess what percentage of the player base doesn't even know how to skate in real life? You do realize some people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does to them, so all this cheese just breeds more cheese?
lol wut?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...
Is is that people who are inexperienced in the actual sport of hockey should still be successful in this game? And their lack of hockey knowledge is somehow EA's responsibility? You want EA to squash the skill gap between people who know hockey and people who don't? How would you even define that, if somehow a ridiculous handicap like that was added to the game?
Of course I understand that people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does.
The failure on those who come here to complain about 'cheese goals' is that they are too focused on what their opponent is doing rather than what they themselves can be doing to nullify those high % scoring chances....
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
It sucks that ragging the puck and waiting for defender to move out of position to cheese a short side goal is now more effective than making good creative passing plays.
The only way to counter this, don’t chase him around and get out of position. He will get frustrated soon enough and do something stupid.
It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
Yea no kidding.
It's almost as amazing as those who don't understand the difference between a shot and a scoring chance. You do realize some players out there are new to this franchise? You know it is possible some people play this game, yet don't grasp basic fundamentals to this sport? Would you care to guess what percentage of the player base doesn't even know how to skate in real life? You do realize some people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does to them, so all this cheese just breeds more cheese?
lol wut?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...
Is is that people who are inexperienced in the actual sport of hockey should still be successful in this game? And their lack of hockey knowledge is somehow EA's responsibility? You want EA to squash the skill gap between people who know hockey and people who don't? How would you even define that, if somehow a ridiculous handicap like that was added to the game?
Of course I understand that people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does.
The failure on those who come here to complain about 'cheese goals' is that they are too focused on what their opponent is doing rather than what they themselves can be doing to nullify those high % scoring chances....
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
I still don't understand how it's the game or EA's fault that new players don't understand basic positioning of hockey...
It sucks that ragging the puck and waiting for defender to move out of position to cheese a short side goal is now more effective than making good creative passing plays.
The only way to counter this, don’t chase him around and get out of position. He will get frustrated soon enough and do something stupid.
It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
Yea no kidding.
It's almost as amazing as those who don't understand the difference between a shot and a scoring chance. You do realize some players out there are new to this franchise? You know it is possible some people play this game, yet don't grasp basic fundamentals to this sport? Would you care to guess what percentage of the player base doesn't even know how to skate in real life? You do realize some people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does to them, so all this cheese just breeds more cheese?
lol wut?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...
Is is that people who are inexperienced in the actual sport of hockey should still be successful in this game? And their lack of hockey knowledge is somehow EA's responsibility? You want EA to squash the skill gap between people who know hockey and people who don't? How would you even define that, if somehow a ridiculous handicap like that was added to the game?
Of course I understand that people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does.
The failure on those who come here to complain about 'cheese goals' is that they are too focused on what their opponent is doing rather than what they themselves can be doing to nullify those high % scoring chances....
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
I still don't understand how it's the game or EA's fault that new players don't understand basic positioning of hockey...
Let me put it this way then.
Play this game the same way you see it played on tv, and you will get destroyed.
This game does not teach proper hockey plays.
This game does not reward proper hockey plays as consistently as selfish plays do.
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
Or they are watching Crosby play and think that 2 on 2's where you force the guy to their backhand are dangerous
And horrible video quality I know, I just cheated and typed puck possession into youtube but this particular possession, if it happened in our game would get posted on these forums called out as being tilt and complete cheese, especially how the puck after every defensive play magically finds it way back onto the offensive teams stick. Even if you perfectly recreate hockey, it is part of the game... I am not sure that goal at the end would go over well either...
This game does not reward proper hockey plays as consistently as selfish plays do.
Is that any clearer?
Much.
If you don't like how someone scores on you with a 'selfish play' - defend it! The defensive toolbelt in NHL 19 is far more effective than in previous years. DSS is awesome and the skating fixes have allowed d-men to position themselves with FAR more control than ever before.
The game DOES reward "proper hockey plays". Saying that it doesn't is just wrong.
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
Or they are watching Crosby play and think that 2 on 2's where you force the guy to their backhand are dangerous
And horrible video quality I know, I just cheated and typed puck possession into youtube but this particular possession, if it happened in our game would get posted on these forums called out as being tilt and complete cheese, especially how the puck after every defensive play magically finds it way back onto the offensive teams stick. Even if you perfectly recreate hockey, it is part of the game... I am not sure that goal at the end would go over well either...
You know, no matter what someone brings up, regardless of here or any other topic anywhere else, there will always be a video to credit or discredit a fact or opinion.
However, there is one key word here: Consistency.
How many goals do you think Crosby will score like this, just this year alone? 2? 3? Can we go as high as 5? Unlikely, but possibly. So how does that compare or relate to your game?
Last year he even scored a one-handed, backhand shot, top shelf. Only one of his career so far and maybe even the only time it has been scored in the NHL. Not consistent at all.
2nd video, sure, it is possible. Does happen on a decent basis in real life, but mostly due to player fatigue and being less capable of defending as that fatigue settles in even more. Are you saying that we cannot hit Danglers because you are imitating player fatigue? Did you also notice in that 2nd video there is practically no attempts to body check carriers? How does that relate to your game?
I seriously and honestly want your opinion here and I am looking for a good back-and-forth discussion. I never back down from a challenge, and something tells me you are up for it. In the end, it's a win-win if I better understand your vision, no?
Really? The 2nd video is an absolute PERFECT example of how to cycle the puck. Players supporting, forwards being shifty on their feet with the puck, etc. I think the piece you're missing is that people often don't understand this concept, dont implement the concept and aren't at a disadvantage for not doing so. If players were forced to cycle the puck in the way the video represents, which they should, this forum would be full of cheers and love for the game. Instead, players hold their sticks 45 feet away from their body as a means of protecting the puck, "shimmy" back and forth in the corners until either the AI dman loses positioning in front for a one-t or a dman gets bubbled off of a hit attempt and they can squirm their way to the front of the net. The current state of this game does not promote nor does it reward team play. It is more so a cheese fest of players abusing poor game mechanics, from goalies to shooting to skating and hitting.
Every now and again I will come across an opponent who plays the game the right way, and that is when I (we) have the most fun. Unfortunately, those games are few and far between and most often you just play games where every trip down the ice you're trying to defend the same 2 or 3 scoring opportunities for a full "60" minutes. It has made the game stale, boring, monotonous and most importantly disappointing. We've strayed far from what this game played like 2 months ago and we are back to a play style that had such a large portion of the community up in arms with NHL 18.
I will re-iterate all of this is based on my personal opinion and while it may seem like I'm attacking the game, it mainly stems from frustration of what it appeared it would be upon release.
The problem I see is those goals go in too much. One slip up and it's in the back of your net short side. Most of the times you cannot rely on your goalie to make that big save when the game is on the line.
Proving a point with a randomly selected video does nothing. What if on youtube you could find every single short side glove save ever made? It would vastly out number the amount of short side goals you see with no screen.
The problem is the amount of goals that go short side are massively inflated. By taking the exact same shot from the same spot with a small flick of the stick before shooting it's going in far more than the goalie will stop it and that is just not realistic at all.
I cannot understand for the life of me why some people think NHL goalies are that bad. There is never any credit given to goalies and as soon someone wants to prove a point they go grab a video of a goal going in.
How many short side shots go in on that goalie out of all the shots in his career? Is it 70%? If it is that goalie is not in the NHL today. That's the issue, and nerfing goalies to where they are now makes no sense.
"So which is it, the defence is too good, or too bad? You get kinda mixed messages on this forum?"
Defending the rush defense has few tools, so defense is bad in this case, you poke its a trip, you let the skater close the gap you miss a body check or slash with stick lift, you back off and stay between skater and goal and he rips a wrister from the high slot for a goal.
on the flip side, if the entire defense is back in position, trapping and collapsing in the zone, defense if very powerful, no space on ice to skate, passes get intercepted, no clean shooting lanes, etc.
The answer is both.
Sounds like hockey to me. Odd man rushes should be difficult to defend, gaining zone entries and forcing plays through people should be incredibly difficult for the offense when there are defenders in position.
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
Or they are watching Crosby play and think that 2 on 2's where you force the guy to their backhand are dangerous
And horrible video quality I know, I just cheated and typed puck possession into youtube but this particular possession, if it happened in our game would get posted on these forums called out as being tilt and complete cheese, especially how the puck after every defensive play magically finds it way back onto the offensive teams stick. Even if you perfectly recreate hockey, it is part of the game... I am not sure that goal at the end would go over well either...
On the puck possession video there's 2 instances where there could have been a turnover in your game. The rest would be completely fine. Good cycling, timing, and puck protection, I don't think people argue.
And the goal was through a screen. Last I checked, people want more screen goals in this game.
Really? The 2nd video is an absolute PERFECT example of how to cycle the puck. Players supporting, forwards being shifty on their feet with the puck, etc. I think the piece you're missing is that people often don't understand this concept, dont implement the concept and aren't at a disadvantage for not doing so. If players were forced to cycle the puck in the way the video represents, which they should, this forum would be full of cheers and love for the game. Instead, players hold their sticks 45 feet away from their body as a means of protecting the puck, "shimmy" back and forth in the corners until either the AI dman loses positioning in front for a one-t or a dman gets bubbled off of a hit attempt and they can squirm their way to the front of the net. The current state of this game does not promote nor does it reward team play. It is more so a cheese fest of players abusing poor game mechanics, from goalies to shooting to skating and hitting.
Every now and again I will come across an opponent who plays the game the right way, and that is when I (we) have the most fun. Unfortunately, those games are few and far between and most often you just play games where every trip down the ice you're trying to defend the same 2 or 3 scoring opportunities for a full "60" minutes. It has made the game stale, boring, monotonous and most importantly disappointing. We've strayed far from what this game played like 2 months ago and we are back to a play style that had such a large portion of the community up in arms with NHL 18.
I will re-iterate all of this is based on my personal opinion and while it may seem like I'm attacking the game, it mainly stems from frustration of what it appeared it would be upon release.
I get that tuning in a game can encourage and allow for certain behavior and we always monitor how things are going, what impact our tuning has had, etc. but people are also quick to blame tuning rather than realizing that all players are playing the same game and that no matter what, there is a skill gap. Good defensive players/teams on the current settings do force teams to cycle and get rid of the puck. That skill gap is higher as there is more manual responsibility on the human player to do that with less ai aggression and actions on defense. There are players holding others to less than a goal a game with the current tuning, while meanwhile scoring 4 or 5 themselves on average.
People often blame the offense for being predictable and boring where it is actually the defense that is at fault if the offense keeps doing the same thing and has success. It is up to the defense to force them to move the puck and it isn't just hitting that would cause this, it is using the full arsenal of defensive tools in the right situations that will do this. The huge advantage the defense has is knowing the exact place the offense needs to go with the puck, yet a lot of players that play our game chase to the corner and try to get the puck back right away when the puck carrier isn't a threat and then blame the mechanics when they over commit, miss a hit, trip a player, etc.. Some times there is urgency to get the puck back or disrupt the play but there are times to commit and times to wait and play position and force the offense to make a mistake rather than the other way around.
You know, no matter what someone brings up, regardless of here or any other topic anywhere else, there will always be a video to credit or discredit a fact or opinion.
However, there is one key word here: Consistency.
How many goals do you think Crosby will score like this, just this year alone? 2? 3? Can we go as high as 5? Unlikely, but possibly. So how does that compare or relate to your game?
Last year he even scored a one-handed, backhand shot, top shelf. Only one of his career so far and maybe even the only time it has been scored in the NHL. Not consistent at all.
2nd video, sure, it is possible. Does happen on a decent basis in real life, but mostly due to player fatigue and being less capable of defending as that fatigue settles in even more. Are you saying that we cannot hit Danglers because you are imitating player fatigue? Did you also notice in that 2nd video there is practically no attempts to body check carriers? How does that relate to your game?
I seriously and honestly want your opinion here and I am looking for a good back-and-forth discussion. I never back down from a challenge, and something tells me you are up for it. In the end, it's a win-win if I better understand your vision, no?
The Crosby example was mostly a joke as you mentioned they may start playing the game after watching Crosby and how they would take what they learned from the real world and apply it in the game and I was sort of kidding that Crosby breaks most rules so they would come in with a false perception of what is possible.
As for your second point, I think you hit the nail on the head that it is more the defense than anything that is allowing players to keep possession more than the mechanics people like to blame. There is a skill gap on both offense and defense and there are some players capable of holding teams to less than a goal a game that are playing pretty high level competition on a regular basis.
I am not saying there isn't room for improvement but it is easier for everyone to agree on the mechanics being the issue as then nobody other than the game has to accept any responsibility.
Not managing player fatigue, over committing, and going for hits when you shouldn't certainly contribute to mistakes and penalties on defense. And you are right, when a team is trying to contain but the puck is well protected and the relative speed is kept low, players aren't able to just shove players off the puck easily so they don't try to hit but instead contain and not let the offense gain control or move the puck with time and space into dangerous areas. Sometimes getting the puck carrier to circle to their backhand away from the net is a defensive win in an isolated circumstance. It isn't always about immediate turnovers.
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
Or they are watching Crosby play and think that 2 on 2's where you force the guy to their backhand are dangerous
And horrible video quality I know, I just cheated and typed puck possession into youtube but this particular possession, if it happened in our game would get posted on these forums called out as being tilt and complete cheese, especially how the puck after every defensive play magically finds it way back onto the offensive teams stick. Even if you perfectly recreate hockey, it is part of the game... I am not sure that goal at the end would go over well either...
Keep nitpicking stuff that happens once in a blue moon and try to develop a game based on that like it happens all the time. The reason the quality is so bad on the 2nd video is probably that happened once in the last 6-7 years.
It sucks that ragging the puck and waiting for defender to move out of position to cheese a short side goal is now more effective than making good creative passing plays.
The only way to counter this, don’t chase him around and get out of position. He will get frustrated soon enough and do something stupid.
It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
Yea no kidding.
It's almost as amazing as those who don't understand the difference between a shot and a scoring chance. You do realize some players out there are new to this franchise? You know it is possible some people play this game, yet don't grasp basic fundamentals to this sport? Would you care to guess what percentage of the player base doesn't even know how to skate in real life? You do realize some people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does to them, so all this cheese just breeds more cheese?
lol wut?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...
Is is that people who are inexperienced in the actual sport of hockey should still be successful in this game? And their lack of hockey knowledge is somehow EA's responsibility? You want EA to squash the skill gap between people who know hockey and people who don't? How would you even define that, if somehow a ridiculous handicap like that was added to the game?
Of course I understand that people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does.
The failure on those who come here to complain about 'cheese goals' is that they are too focused on what their opponent is doing rather than what they themselves can be doing to nullify those high % scoring chances....
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
I still don't understand how it's the game or EA's fault that new players don't understand basic positioning of hockey...
The AI in this game just wanders half the time. They are rarely in the proper position, skate away from assignments, skate into each other, and make ill timed line changes. I won’t even address how the goalies play....neutral zone and board play are virtually non existent and games are just a North South offense friendly arcade game. That is 100% percent the game and EAs fault......they developed it and continue to destroy what little worked with tuners. It’s astounding to me that a few people who love the game, which is fine, think the masses of hockey fans who call out the games vast short comings and problems don’t understand hockey or are just mad because they lost. As negative as I can be on this franchise what I experienced in the Beta had me pumped to do an offline season for the first time since NHL 14....each tuner released has made that less likely to happen.
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It's amazing more people don't know or understand this.
Yea no kidding.
It's almost as amazing as those who don't understand the difference between a shot and a scoring chance. You do realize some players out there are new to this franchise? You know it is possible some people play this game, yet don't grasp basic fundamentals to this sport? Would you care to guess what percentage of the player base doesn't even know how to skate in real life? You do realize some people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does to them, so all this cheese just breeds more cheese?
lol wut?
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here...
Is is that people who are inexperienced in the actual sport of hockey should still be successful in this game? And their lack of hockey knowledge is somehow EA's responsibility? You want EA to squash the skill gap between people who know hockey and people who don't? How would you even define that, if somehow a ridiculous handicap like that was added to the game?
Of course I understand that people play this game and learn based on what their opponent does.
The failure on those who come here to complain about 'cheese goals' is that they are too focused on what their opponent is doing rather than what they themselves can be doing to nullify those high % scoring chances....
No. The point is, people may look up videos (real NHL, or this game) and try to learn how to play, or try to be a better player. Maybe they just started watching hockey and say maybe Sidney Crosby gives them the urge to want to play this game and replicate his style.
So they see a 2 on 1, and logic dictates to cover the pass. Wrong. Short side snipe is deadlier than the one-timer.
They see a puck carrier dipsy doodling in the corner and they decide to go into the corner to pressure the player off the puck. Wrong. Curl stick back, negate the body check and get a clear path to the net.
This game has never mimicked hockey properly. Every single year you have to learn the garbage cheese to hope to be competitive. Funny story though, NHL 19 was so on the right track, then 1.03 comes along and goes back to garbage 14-18 plays. Even weird pivots and 270 pivots instead of 90 degree pivots are creeping back.
Any newb who discovers a love for this sport, then gets attracted to this game must get turned off really fast because "hockey plays" are not gonna give them success as good as the garbage cheese plays. Not a single player will take this game and say he learned so much about hockey. All he will learn is that hogging the puck is way better than team plays. No wonder this franchise is a hair from drowning and can't get more newbs into it.
I still don't understand how it's the game or EA's fault that new players don't understand basic positioning of hockey...
Let me put it this way then.
Play this game the same way you see it played on tv, and you will get destroyed.
This game does not teach proper hockey plays.
This game does not reward proper hockey plays as consistently as selfish plays do.
Is that any clearer?
Or they are watching Crosby play and think that 2 on 2's where you force the guy to their backhand are dangerous
And horrible video quality I know, I just cheated and typed puck possession into youtube but this particular possession, if it happened in our game would get posted on these forums called out as being tilt and complete cheese, especially how the puck after every defensive play magically finds it way back onto the offensive teams stick. Even if you perfectly recreate hockey, it is part of the game... I am not sure that goal at the end would go over well either...
Much.
If you don't like how someone scores on you with a 'selfish play' - defend it! The defensive toolbelt in NHL 19 is far more effective than in previous years. DSS is awesome and the skating fixes have allowed d-men to position themselves with FAR more control than ever before.
The game DOES reward "proper hockey plays". Saying that it doesn't is just wrong.
It also rewards "proper hockey defense".
lmao looks like a bunch of the goals in the other thread.. but apparently that's not a "hockey play"
You know, no matter what someone brings up, regardless of here or any other topic anywhere else, there will always be a video to credit or discredit a fact or opinion.
However, there is one key word here: Consistency.
How many goals do you think Crosby will score like this, just this year alone? 2? 3? Can we go as high as 5? Unlikely, but possibly. So how does that compare or relate to your game?
Last year he even scored a one-handed, backhand shot, top shelf. Only one of his career so far and maybe even the only time it has been scored in the NHL. Not consistent at all.
2nd video, sure, it is possible. Does happen on a decent basis in real life, but mostly due to player fatigue and being less capable of defending as that fatigue settles in even more. Are you saying that we cannot hit Danglers because you are imitating player fatigue? Did you also notice in that 2nd video there is practically no attempts to body check carriers? How does that relate to your game?
I seriously and honestly want your opinion here and I am looking for a good back-and-forth discussion. I never back down from a challenge, and something tells me you are up for it. In the end, it's a win-win if I better understand your vision, no?
Really? The 2nd video is an absolute PERFECT example of how to cycle the puck. Players supporting, forwards being shifty on their feet with the puck, etc. I think the piece you're missing is that people often don't understand this concept, dont implement the concept and aren't at a disadvantage for not doing so. If players were forced to cycle the puck in the way the video represents, which they should, this forum would be full of cheers and love for the game. Instead, players hold their sticks 45 feet away from their body as a means of protecting the puck, "shimmy" back and forth in the corners until either the AI dman loses positioning in front for a one-t or a dman gets bubbled off of a hit attempt and they can squirm their way to the front of the net. The current state of this game does not promote nor does it reward team play. It is more so a cheese fest of players abusing poor game mechanics, from goalies to shooting to skating and hitting.
Every now and again I will come across an opponent who plays the game the right way, and that is when I (we) have the most fun. Unfortunately, those games are few and far between and most often you just play games where every trip down the ice you're trying to defend the same 2 or 3 scoring opportunities for a full "60" minutes. It has made the game stale, boring, monotonous and most importantly disappointing. We've strayed far from what this game played like 2 months ago and we are back to a play style that had such a large portion of the community up in arms with NHL 18.
I will re-iterate all of this is based on my personal opinion and while it may seem like I'm attacking the game, it mainly stems from frustration of what it appeared it would be upon release.
Proving a point with a randomly selected video does nothing. What if on youtube you could find every single short side glove save ever made? It would vastly out number the amount of short side goals you see with no screen.
The problem is the amount of goals that go short side are massively inflated. By taking the exact same shot from the same spot with a small flick of the stick before shooting it's going in far more than the goalie will stop it and that is just not realistic at all.
I cannot understand for the life of me why some people think NHL goalies are that bad. There is never any credit given to goalies and as soon someone wants to prove a point they go grab a video of a goal going in.
How many short side shots go in on that goalie out of all the shots in his career? Is it 70%? If it is that goalie is not in the NHL today. That's the issue, and nerfing goalies to where they are now makes no sense.
Sounds like hockey to me. Odd man rushes should be difficult to defend, gaining zone entries and forcing plays through people should be incredibly difficult for the offense when there are defenders in position.
On the puck possession video there's 2 instances where there could have been a turnover in your game. The rest would be completely fine. Good cycling, timing, and puck protection, I don't think people argue.
And the goal was through a screen. Last I checked, people want more screen goals in this game.
I get that tuning in a game can encourage and allow for certain behavior and we always monitor how things are going, what impact our tuning has had, etc. but people are also quick to blame tuning rather than realizing that all players are playing the same game and that no matter what, there is a skill gap. Good defensive players/teams on the current settings do force teams to cycle and get rid of the puck. That skill gap is higher as there is more manual responsibility on the human player to do that with less ai aggression and actions on defense. There are players holding others to less than a goal a game with the current tuning, while meanwhile scoring 4 or 5 themselves on average.
People often blame the offense for being predictable and boring where it is actually the defense that is at fault if the offense keeps doing the same thing and has success. It is up to the defense to force them to move the puck and it isn't just hitting that would cause this, it is using the full arsenal of defensive tools in the right situations that will do this. The huge advantage the defense has is knowing the exact place the offense needs to go with the puck, yet a lot of players that play our game chase to the corner and try to get the puck back right away when the puck carrier isn't a threat and then blame the mechanics when they over commit, miss a hit, trip a player, etc.. Some times there is urgency to get the puck back or disrupt the play but there are times to commit and times to wait and play position and force the offense to make a mistake rather than the other way around.
The Crosby example was mostly a joke as you mentioned they may start playing the game after watching Crosby and how they would take what they learned from the real world and apply it in the game and I was sort of kidding that Crosby breaks most rules so they would come in with a false perception of what is possible.
As for your second point, I think you hit the nail on the head that it is more the defense than anything that is allowing players to keep possession more than the mechanics people like to blame. There is a skill gap on both offense and defense and there are some players capable of holding teams to less than a goal a game that are playing pretty high level competition on a regular basis.
I am not saying there isn't room for improvement but it is easier for everyone to agree on the mechanics being the issue as then nobody other than the game has to accept any responsibility.
Not managing player fatigue, over committing, and going for hits when you shouldn't certainly contribute to mistakes and penalties on defense. And you are right, when a team is trying to contain but the puck is well protected and the relative speed is kept low, players aren't able to just shove players off the puck easily so they don't try to hit but instead contain and not let the offense gain control or move the puck with time and space into dangerous areas. Sometimes getting the puck carrier to circle to their backhand away from the net is a defensive win in an isolated circumstance. It isn't always about immediate turnovers.
Keep nitpicking stuff that happens once in a blue moon and try to develop a game based on that like it happens all the time. The reason the quality is so bad on the 2nd video is probably that happened once in the last 6-7 years.
The AI in this game just wanders half the time. They are rarely in the proper position, skate away from assignments, skate into each other, and make ill timed line changes. I won’t even address how the goalies play....neutral zone and board play are virtually non existent and games are just a North South offense friendly arcade game. That is 100% percent the game and EAs fault......they developed it and continue to destroy what little worked with tuners. It’s astounding to me that a few people who love the game, which is fine, think the masses of hockey fans who call out the games vast short comings and problems don’t understand hockey or are just mad because they lost. As negative as I can be on this franchise what I experienced in the Beta had me pumped to do an offline season for the first time since NHL 14....each tuner released has made that less likely to happen.