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I believe its time to address the "tripping" penalty.

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  • Sadly, for defense, 90% of your gaming style should be practicing containment. It isn't all that fun or glorious, but it is the best way to play it with success, less penalties and less goals against.

    Agreed, this is what I find myself doing most of the time, containment, no poking, if offense is doing their part, it can work out. But if offense is chasing or playing dropin style, you're doomed.
  • zingaa1 wrote: »
    As a defenseman, I can adapt to the new changes implemented to defense, no problem and I consider myself a very low penalty taker btw.. But I'm curious why we as defenseman have to change, when forwards can continue to dangle and figure skate right through players and walk into the zone with out losing the puck? It just seems like defenseman always have the player changes made, yet offense doesn't change.

    IDK, maybe I'm trippin'.

    using DSS on danglers works well. It seems the penalties on the pullback animation from DSS have been negated - so you can utilize the positioning gained from DSS - release RB - and the subsequent pull back animation has no penalty - so utilizing that along with incidental contact seems to be the sweet spot for handling danglers.

    I've also found that using DSS with some skill forces the opponent to take an extra second to make a decision - that extra second usually affords my backchecking A.I. some time to get back. I can either take control of the backchecking forward or keep using DSS on my D-man to force them away from the decisions I know they want to make.

    Works pretty well for me. I still get the odd dangler who gets a step on me to the slot and scores, but that's the nature of the game these days, especially when you get to the top 500 on OVP - one simple mistake and you're screwed.

    Pretty good advice and I concur. Pokes on danglers is the worst thing you can do and this method here is pretty much the best way to handle them.

    Sadly, for defense, 90% of your gaming style should be practicing containment. It isn't all that fun or glorious, but it is the best way to play it with success, less penalties and less goals against.

    yes unfortunately this is part of "adapting" to sketchy game mechanics. If a puck carrier is skating towards a defender with puck out in front the logical thing is to poke check that puck away. but thanks to the way this is implemented in game, he simply needs to time his "dangle" right and pull that puck away and your poke follows the puck through the legs and trips if you are too close. something that has never happened in a real nhl hockey game happens all the time.

    but i digress, adapt and move on. this is not a problem when compared to the massive game breaking problems this game has...at least in the 6s space and successfully getting online games to work for everyone. There was a post yesterday that they have been putting in fixes, which is nice to hear and also the very first time I've heard of that anywhere. Would be nice to know these things and have your community provide feedback. I don't know if they are just obtuse to the situation but a LARGE portion of their player base that were getting errors is long gone. How are they communicating these "fixes" and testing them? Oh wait ... they aren't. The way this team operates is so archaic it's like online gaming is an afterthought still when in reality it's the only thing that matters in today's day and age.

    One of the silliest things in this game is the 0 or 100% poke check. What I mean is, why does every poke have to be a complete extension? If the puck is 18 inches in front of me when I decide to poke, why does my stick travel well above 18 inches and straight through to the skates? Ridiculous.

    Maybe it makes sense in the game for balance purposes or whatever, but I still find it silly. It is incredibly easy to bait players into tripping penalties because of this and add on the fact players can curl their sticks faster than your poke checks can travel.

  • Sadly, for defense, 90% of your gaming style should be practicing containment. It isn't all that fun or glorious, but it is the best way to play it with success, less penalties and less goals against.

    Agreed. Sometimes though, if the team you're up against isn't very dynamic - you can pick up on their tendencies of entry and light them up!
  • jiajji
    329 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Dont poke when you're too close, you said it.

    There has to be some learning curve for defense. Why should poke work every time you hit R1? I know guys who trip constantly and whine & cry about the game mechanics. It gets old listening to them all the while I'm going "dude, what did you think was gonna happen". (Not saying this is you)

    I play d in eashl exclusively and I was bent over the tuners, but after playing on them for a while I believe they got them in a pretty good spot. They aren't perfect but they're good imo.

    Every time I've felt helpless in this game its because the bots don't react well. Goalies don't take away SS so I have to step up & risk getting clowned by a CC. Or improper puck pickups resulting in one guy in the game vacuuming everything up (kinda rare though). There are defensive tools, it's just that you have to be discriminatory about which ones you use depending on the situation.

    I also think its worth noting that a LOT of these complaints center on 3s gameplay. A lot of the complaints over defensive ability don't translate to the 6s games.
  • If you're 'close' to your opponent and want to use your stick but don't want a trip - use DSS.

    Take note of the player you're controlling and keep in mind when DSS initiates, the hand at the top of the stick will become your DSS hand. If you do it right, you can initiate DSS - move the stick to an ideal position (where the animation won't cross body or skates) and then click the Right Stick in for a poke.

    If you do it quick enough and have enough twitch skill, you can definitely have 100% control on the angle and approach of the poke check.

    But I do agree - having control of the 'length' of the poke would be nice.
  • zingaa1 wrote: »
    As a defenseman, I can adapt to the new changes implemented to defense, no problem and I consider myself a very low penalty taker btw.. But I'm curious why we as defenseman have to change, when forwards can continue to dangle and figure skate right through players and walk into the zone with out losing the puck? It just seems like defenseman always have the player changes made, yet offense doesn't change.

    IDK, maybe I'm trippin'.

    using DSS on danglers works well. It seems the penalties on the pullback animation from DSS have been negated - so you can utilize the positioning gained from DSS - release RB - and the subsequent pull back animation has no penalty - so utilizing that along with incidental contact seems to be the sweet spot for handling danglers.

    I've also found that using DSS with some skill forces the opponent to take an extra second to make a decision - that extra second usually affords my backchecking A.I. some time to get back. I can either take control of the backchecking forward or keep using DSS on my D-man to force them away from the decisions I know they want to make.

    Works pretty well for me. I still get the odd dangler who gets a step on me to the slot and scores, but that's the nature of the game these days, especially when you get to the top 500 on OVP - one simple mistake and you're screwed.

    Pretty good advice and I concur. Pokes on danglers is the worst thing you can do and this method here is pretty much the best way to handle them.

    Sadly, for defense, 90% of your gaming style should be practicing containment. It isn't all that fun or glorious, but it is the best way to play it with success, less penalties and less goals against.

    yes unfortunately this is part of "adapting" to sketchy game mechanics. If a puck carrier is skating towards a defender with puck out in front the logical thing is to poke check that puck away. but thanks to the way this is implemented in game, he simply needs to time his "dangle" right and pull that puck away and your poke follows the puck through the legs and trips if you are too close. something that has never happened in a real nhl hockey game happens all the time.

    but i digress, adapt and move on. this is not a problem when compared to the massive game breaking problems this game has...at least in the 6s space and successfully getting online games to work for everyone. There was a post yesterday that they have been putting in fixes, which is nice to hear and also the very first time I've heard of that anywhere. Would be nice to know these things and have your community provide feedback. I don't know if they are just obtuse to the situation but a LARGE portion of their player base that were getting errors is long gone. How are they communicating these "fixes" and testing them? Oh wait ... they aren't. The way this team operates is so archaic it's like online gaming is an afterthought still when in reality it's the only thing that matters in today's day and age.

    One of the silliest things in this game is the 0 or 100% poke check. What I mean is, why does every poke have to be a complete extension? If the puck is 18 inches in front of me when I decide to poke, why does my stick travel well above 18 inches and straight through to the skates? Ridiculous.

    Maybe it makes sense in the game for balance purposes or whatever, but I still find it silly. It is incredibly easy to bait players into tripping penalties because of this and add on the fact players can curl their sticks faster than your poke checks can travel.

    I agree with this, that an executed poke should be relative to the puck.

    But regarding "baiting", I think you're being too kind to the d. I "bait" them by protecting the puck, which is easy to do by holding it away and skating at an angle away. You can't make a play from this position, you have to either create separation or draw a penalty. A d who practices good gap control without poking until the puck is presented offers problems. One who pokes while you're in this position is just playing bad hockey.
  • actually in real hockey, while you can protect the puck, if you give up your agility and some of your options by doing what we all do in thsi game, the defender will attack you and stick check (poke) the crap out of you. Why? Because thats hockey and there is no chance of a penalty.

    No you shouldn't be successful every time you press poke but you should almost never trip. It doesn't have to be black or white. The only realistic time you should cause a trip is if you are chasing and poke between the legs or poke the blade right into the skates. it's a desperate move that should lead to penalties in the right situation.

    again this is a problem you can work around so I don't want any effort put into that could be put into fixing the real problems.

    stick lift is a MUCH bigger problem. The animation for that is complete trash and always has been but now with the current tuner levels the penalties are completely ridiculous. But even that you can work around (kind of, mostly by almost never using it).


  • SL works for me, I use it regularly.

    I'm fairly well convinced a lot, maybe even most of, the problems with this game are server related. How else can you explain so many people saying hitting/sl/poke dont work while others are posting that they've learned to use them effectively?
  • once i learned to stop doing what i've done since this game allowed you to do it like 10 years ago.... poke loose pucks. i basically stopped getting almost any trips. adapting to current trips, although unrealistic, wasnt that hard. it was killing the habit that every time i see a loose puck i poke it away because those situations just seem to homing beam into trips even when no ones close to the puck i just poked. it's like it just hangs out there and finds legs to trip.

    it's really simple, the only trips should be pokes from behind that go through back of legs or pokes that go straight between legs and touch both legs. nothing else is realistic.

    but again thats not hard to overcome besides the loose puck things. now i just rely completely on puck pickups and my ability to get it and get away with it or pass it away before losing.

    So..question. What’s the magic formula for coming out of the corner with the puck. Or really any other up for grabs situation. I play a bit of D lately and just can’t figure out how to really win a puck battle.
    Ps: I’ve played hockey and understand proper body positions etc.

    Box them out. Can't box them out then puck chop. If chop won't work in that situation then set your controller down. My friends and I call it "do the nothing". You would be amazed how often doing the nothing will beat the right thing or beat out logic in this game.
  • jiajji wrote: »

    SL works for me, I use it regularly.

    I'm fairly well convinced a lot, maybe even most of, the problems with this game are server related. How else can you explain so many people saying hitting/sl/poke dont work while others are posting that they've learned to use them effectively?

    no this is not subjective, stick lift is terrible in EA's NHL. Just because in some certain scenarios it can be used doesn't mean it's not broken. all you have to do to know if it's broke is stand still and do it when no one is around. Are you hunched over doing a short quick stick lift from the ice surface that never gets above your waist and in a million years could never slash someones face or magically turn into a hook? No you are standing straight up swinging your stick wildingly in the area like you are chopping wood but in reverse.

    watch this video and realize why basically no one in history has ever attempted a stick lift and gotten a penalty for slash or hook. start at 0:35 for the slow mo



  • If you're 'close' to your opponent and want to use your stick but don't want a trip - use DSS.

    Take note of the player you're controlling and keep in mind when DSS initiates, the hand at the top of the stick will become your DSS hand. If you do it right, you can initiate DSS - move the stick to an ideal position (where the animation won't cross body or skates) and then click the Right Stick in for a poke.

    If you do it quick enough and have enough twitch skill, you can definitely have 100% control on the angle and approach of the poke check.

    But I do agree - having control of the 'length' of the poke would be nice.

    I was being generic because alot of trips I see people getting could be solved if the poke travel distance was relative to the puck instead of the length of a defender's arm.

    Most of the time I will manually poke away from a player to activate my DSS and start angling my stick towards the puck. I practice containment almost every game unless I notice certain players aren't all that good at avoiding checks. In those games i crank up the physical play.

    I take very little tripping penalties and by far have no massive issues with this "skill gap" around pokes, but they still need polish and a bit of work. Forwards can dangle and twitch everywhere without penalty other than sacrificing speed while twitching around. They can even force their way through defenders because their movement follows the loose puck so they just pick them right back up.

    Long story short, we are much more accountable with our pokes and stick lifts than ever before, yet player bubbles are back. We just got gimped again for the sake of this "realism" that is poorly portrayed in this game.
  • jiajji wrote: »

    SL works for me, I use it regularly.

    I'm fairly well convinced a lot, maybe even most of, the problems with this game are server related. How else can you explain so many people saying hitting/sl/poke dont work while others are posting that they've learned to use them effectively?

    no this is not subjective, stick lift is terrible in EA's NHL. Just because in some certain scenarios it can be used doesn't mean it's not broken. all you have to do to know if it's broke is stand still and do it when no one is around. Are you hunched over doing a short quick stick lift from the ice surface that never gets above your waist and in a million years could never slash someones face or magically turn into a hook? No you are standing straight up swinging your stick wildingly in the area like you are chopping wood but in reverse.

    watch this video and realize why basically no one in history has ever attempted a stick lift and gotten a penalty for slash or hook. start at 0:35 for the slow mo



    I didn't say it was subjective, I said it works well for me. I've also been the victim of the sl more than once, typically its battling for a loose puck. Again, I think the difference in our experience isn't necessarily a function of the game or our relative abilities, but a lag/input difference. I rarely experience even the dre which plague the game but I do find myself suffering from lag at least often enough to understand it makes the game unplayable.
  • the point i was making is that its not a lag problem, although I'll agree lag would make it worse. I never have lag, it's always 10ms ... all the time. Also this stick lift mechanic is the same problem offline.

    I'm not saying i take a lot of penalties with it, i'm saying it's horrible hot garbage and this year they completely ruined it with the high penalty rate. I really don't need it i probably use it about 3 times a game tops. Just would be nice if you could use it when you should be able. but i digress. All i really care about is getting the the dang online issues resolved and cleaning up the online experience so people come back to this damn game and stay. #1 on that list DR issues/crashes/bugs and #2 getting rid of the trolls.
  • This tripping and zero tolerance garbage is the reason I barely play now. One side is either spending half the game on the PP or PK. Get a little momentum on the forecheck, you will be getting a tripping penalty. Graze a leg with a stick and now you’re holding a weapon. It’s trash all around. Friends or guests? I recommend other games now. Great idea earlier, like I see a million times a game in the NHL, how about an ANIMATION of a STICK BOUNCING OF A LEG?? Are there no strong skaters? No one is strong on their skates? You ever see a guy drive wide, crash to the net and use his inside leg to protect the puck against pokes?? The sticks just bounce right off. Pokes check effectiveness needs to be turned down. Seriously, EA looks at the data and sees nothing but a crap ton of tripping penalties and nothing gets done? Is this the game you want? Really? While I’m at it throw some bones at the Online vs. community. Every new edition haas upgrades for this or that, I can’t remeber The last time there was a significant upgrade for online vs. like saving lines and strategies. Make it a little easier for us to play. Streamline, too many damn game modes. Focus on the gameplay.
  • Its getting better for me, however the "tripping penalty" has to be addressed soon. Its not only poke check, its blocking a shot, opposing player touches my stick etc. Its ridiculous to say the least. I like the concept, but it needs to be toned down! Please, with sugar on top!!
  • https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/65954529

    Puck is in a good range for a poke. I miss a close poke and for whatever reason my guy decides to go for the skates afterwards.

    He proceeds to score on the ensuring penalty shot via the cheese backhand move.
  • Thanks for the video clip, we need more of these so the powers that be fix this. Its getting to the point of why even bother playing. Most likely these types of unaddressed mistakes/problems will affect my decision on purchasing NHL20. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".
  • EpiCxOwNeD wrote: »
    https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/epicxowned/video/65954529

    Puck is in a good range for a poke. I miss a close poke and for whatever reason my guy decides to go for the skates afterwards.

    He proceeds to score on the ensuring penalty shot via the cheese backhand move.

    The inconsistency of what is rewarded and what us punished with poke checks and the DSS can definitely be infuriating at times.

    You make what should be a safe, standard hockey play and you're punished because the stick baaaaaaaarely makes contact with the other guy's skate.

    Meanwhile players are rewarded with a turnover by using the DSS right through someones leg despite being out of position.



    I know the two plays are different and I'm sure the mechanics are "consistent" in that they'd each have the same result if they happened again. But the type of plays that are rewarded and punished seem out of whack with what would be considered a good hockey play.
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