They said they won't bring it back because of PRIDE! Please someone who makes changes give me a good reason on why you won't listen to the community? Is anyone out there??!!
We listen to everything. The problem is that you actually don't all agree as much as you think you do. At the highest level you do -- the glory days of the beta were better -- but in the details, there are a lot of pieces people are asking for us to retain and/or are aligned were good ideas that when you look at the actual changes that were in the tuner sets, doesn't align with rolling things back.
We can however consider more improvements moving forward and we are. Some of which may require tweaking existing changes or revisiting what we did and looking at other options to get best of both world scenarios, if possible.
People don't want weak rebound goals or players bumped off the puck from behind on breakaways at low relative speeds but they also want the goalie to challenge shooters more and for players to not be able to hold on to the puck as easy when hit at low relative speeds. Players don't want the ai to play a big role in the outcome of games and want more user controlled defense but they also don't want to see players dancing in the corners where you probably use teammate support in real life to shut those players down easier.
We are listening. Balancing a game when there are multiple opinions isn't easy. But we are listening and actively looking at options in case there are ways to get better results across the board.
Do you all have the ability to tune that to a certain angle of the hit? So for example, keep the hits like 1.03 if the opponent is hit directly from behind (at 6 o'clock or 180°), but revert back to 1.00 hitting for all hits over 7 o'clock or under 5 o'clock (or like greater than 200° or less than 160°?
Basically, as long as you get hit nearly directly from behind you won't lose the puck (ie breakaway), but if hit from the back-side or side you will lose the puck like in 1.00?
Basically like how a trip from directly behind on a breakaway is penalty shot, but a trip from a diagonal on a breakaway is not?
They said they won't bring it back because of PRIDE! Please someone who makes changes give me a good reason on why you won't listen to the community? Is anyone out there??!!
We listen to everything. The problem is that you actually don't all agree as much as you think you do. At the highest level you do -- the glory days of the beta were better -- but in the details, there are a lot of pieces people are asking for us to retain and/or are aligned were good ideas that when you look at the actual changes that were in the tuner sets, doesn't align with rolling things back.
We can however consider more improvements moving forward and we are. Some of which may require tweaking existing changes or revisiting what we did and looking at other options to get best of both world scenarios, if possible.
People don't want weak rebound goals or players bumped off the puck from behind on breakaways at low relative speeds but they also want the goalie to challenge shooters more and for players to not be able to hold on to the puck as easy when hit at low relative speeds. Players don't want the ai to play a big role in the outcome of games and want more user controlled defense but they also don't want to see players dancing in the corners where you probably use teammate support in real life to shut those players down easier.
We are listening. Balancing a game when there are multiple opinions isn't easy. But we are listening and actively looking at options in case there are ways to get better results across the board.
I won’t address everything because you obviously are reading all the feedback. I’m an old school hockey sim guy. Been playing the series since it’s inception on SEGA Genesis. I’m a pretty harsh critic because I’m looking for the best offline experience possible but this applies to offline and online....
I can say flat out that what impressed this cynic the most when I played the Beta besides the new skating was that when a player bumped, not checked, the puck carrier along the boards he slightly lost his balance and the puck went loose. The contact, reaction, and animation were fantastic and it stood out to me as just as impressive as the skating. It was something the series was missing. Between that and the skating I thought the series may finally be heading in the right direction.
In my opinion you didn’t need to stop opposing players from catching people on breakaway and knocking them off the puck from behind, you needed to stop making it so easy for them to catch you in the first place. In the games current state physical contact is so unrealistic. Along the boards now defenders who make light contact now just bounce off and the puck carrier continues as if the contact never happened. In open ice it’s even worse. Guys just rag the puck and contact does nothing. You guys were very proud of the New skating and rightfully so but you also touted the physics changes and they were good. Just because people complained doesn’t mean it should have been changed. The game was stale and you guys made some much needed changes but with change comes adjustment on the gamers part. I know you see it as subjective but I’m telling you the game took a major step back with the tuners and does resemble last years game much more than the innovative features you showcased in the Beta. Maybe they weren’t perfect but the direction was right. The Beta should have been built upon instead it went into rewind
Players balance with the puck is way too overpowered.
I played some offline games today with 1.03 and kept going into instant replay and watching physical contact. It's pretty crazy how hard it is to knock a player off the puck now. If you can keep your back turned to the defender no matter how hard they shove you they cannot budge you. Even if you skate into a player with the puck who has his back turned at a decent speed you just bounce off.
And I like what Jake said about breakaways, It's a good point. If the big issue was being shoved off the puck on breakaways than why was it so easy to catch up so fast.
It's nice to hear you guys are looking into the problems a lot of us are complaining about. I really hope you guys come through on the next tuner, this game can be great with a few tweaks to player balance, physical contact and easy goals with no screen.
Heh, I've been a bit too harsh, but I know how fun this game can be without ragging and cheese goals.
the problem is not being pushed off the puck on breakaways. the problem is when you are skating with the puck in one direction (generally forward) and a defender is behind you and shoves you, everything was broken before. First off the fact that someone behind you can even shove you while you are skating forward is a bit silly. it was like animations "sucked" the two players together to do it. But on top of that, you are moving forward and so is the puck so when you do get pushed from behind it should really have almost NO force, unless it's some kind of vicious cross check. You shouldn't lose the puck. In the rare case that you do lose the puck, it should come free and continue on out in front of you.
The way it used to work (in beta and really last year or so) in this game none of this was true. You could skate right past a defender who is now beat but the hitting animation let him somehow turn and check you in the back, you stumble like a 3 year old that doesn't know how to skate and to top it all off the puck seemed to go backwards right to the stick of the defender who was beat but now has the puck and usually a free lane to carry it out in, since he was behind you.
Seemingly the physics and hitting engines must be too limited to fix that without creating the current issue we have. Which is its a little more difficult to check someone from behind than it should be. That being said it happens to me all the time so I'm not sure really what the problem is other than maybe it's because i'm playing as a 6' 195lb skater not a 6'4 250lb goon. many people compensate for not really being able to play actual hockey in this game with playing large players that let them hold on to the puck unrealistically (because defensive stick work in this game is AWFUL).
Just read comments on this forum, reddit, twitter, facebook, youtube and talk to people in EASHL drop in, you will get the feeling real quick that most people despise what EA has done. Everyone paid for the beta tuner and what we get is NHL 18. It's obvious though, almost everyone wants the beta tuner back.
Yet, EA thinks it's just fine. I've never read such bad reviews for an EA title than I have for this game, just embarrassing really.
They said they won't bring it back because of PRIDE! Please someone who makes changes give me a good reason on why you won't listen to the community? Is anyone out there??!!
We listen to everything. The problem is that you actually don't all agree as much as you think you do. At the highest level you do -- the glory days of the beta were better -- but in the details, there are a lot of pieces people are asking for us to retain and/or are aligned were good ideas that when you look at the actual changes that were in the tuner sets, doesn't align with rolling things back.
We can however consider more improvements moving forward and we are. Some of which may require tweaking existing changes or revisiting what we did and looking at other options to get best of both world scenarios, if possible.
People don't want weak rebound goals or players bumped off the puck from behind on breakaways at low relative speeds but they also want the goalie to challenge shooters more and for players to not be able to hold on to the puck as easy when hit at low relative speeds. Players don't want the ai to play a big role in the outcome of games and want more user controlled defense but they also don't want to see players dancing in the corners where you probably use teammate support in real life to shut those players down easier.
We are listening. Balancing a game when there are multiple opinions isn't easy. But we are listening and actively looking at options in case there are ways to get better results across the board.
The weak rebound goals where not that bad. Goalies are worse now than before. I'd take those rebound goals over the short side post goals. The game isn't updated well. The relative speed just makes your legends better. Those guys don't even have higher speed than some low 80 players but still out-skate them? Any tuner based off skating and speed was not a good tuner and has had nothing but complaints.
I don't see how have the changes could be called improvements. The changes just took away one issue and caused another. you can't now spam the hit but with that you can't really hit well at all. Players now have incredible balance when it comes to hitting but 0 when it comes to sticks touching skates.
Changes in the stick lifting caused changes in defensive skill stick. I can skate into anyone with a DSS and get a tripping call. I don't see how we can call this improvements.
I think the best way to move forward is to go back to Beta tuner give it a few weeks then see what can be changed. Prior to releasing these changes make sure it didn't create any other issues. If the change is made for the better and no other issues are present then we can call it an improvement. We want NHL 19 back and I think that is clear. Just bring back the Beta and see if you get more players or less. This might help not having to release new versions of the game after launch.
They said they won't bring it back because of PRIDE! Please someone who makes changes give me a good reason on why you won't listen to the community? Is anyone out there??!!
We listen to everything. The problem is that you actually don't all agree as much as you think you do. At the highest level you do -- the glory days of the beta were better -- but in the details, there are a lot of pieces people are asking for us to retain and/or are aligned were good ideas that when you look at the actual changes that were in the tuner sets, doesn't align with rolling things back.
We can however consider more improvements moving forward and we are. Some of which may require tweaking existing changes or revisiting what we did and looking at other options to get best of both world scenarios, if possible.
People don't want weak rebound goals or players bumped off the puck from behind on breakaways at low relative speeds but they also want the goalie to challenge shooters more and for players to not be able to hold on to the puck as easy when hit at low relative speeds. Players don't want the ai to play a big role in the outcome of games and want more user controlled defense but they also don't want to see players dancing in the corners where you probably use teammate support in real life to shut those players down easier.
We are listening. Balancing a game when there are multiple opinions isn't easy. But we are listening and actively looking at options in case there are ways to get better results across the board.
I won’t address everything because you obviously are reading all the feedback. I’m an old school hockey sim guy. Been playing the series since it’s inception on SEGA Genesis. I’m a pretty harsh critic because I’m looking for the best offline experience possible but this applies to offline and online....
I can say flat out that what impressed this cynic the most when I played the Beta besides the new skating was that when a player bumped, not checked, the puck carrier along the boards he slightly lost his balance and the puck went lose. The contact, reaction, and animation were fantastic and it stood out to me as just as impressive as the skating. It was something the series was missing. Between that and the skating I thought the series may finally be heading in the right direction.
In my opinion you didn’t need to stop opposing players from catching people on breakaway and knocking them off the puck from behind, you needed to stop making it so easy for them to catch you in the first place. In the games current state physical contact is so unrealistic. Along the boards now defenders who make light contact now just bounce off and the puck carrier continues as if the contact never happened. In open ice it’s even worse. Guys just rag the puck and contact does nothing. You guys were very proud of the New skating and rightfully so but you also touted the physics changes and they were good. Just because people complained doesn’t mean it should have been changed. The game was stale and you guys made some much needed changes but with change comes adjustment on the gamers part. I know you see it as subjective but I’m telling you the game took a major step back with the tuners and does resemble last years game much more than the innovative features you showcased in the Beta. Maybe they weren’t perfect but the direction was right. The Beta should have been built upon instead it went into rewind
They don't care about stopping players they care about legends getting stopped. They needed to make the cards stand out so that people pay more money to get those cards on the team. In doing this has caused bad changes and if they would do the right thing and go to Beta tuner it would make players skate fairly again.
I'm genuinely curious why there was a patch so soon after the game was released? If not happy with the finished product, couldn't you have pushed the date? It seems a lot of companies have no problem pushing back release dates to get the exact product they want on release day.
I'm genuinely curious why there was a patch so soon after the game was released? If not happy with the finished product, couldn't you have pushed the date? It seems a lot of companies have no problem pushing back release dates to get the exact product they want on release day.
But if they had this current product on release date it would be NHL 18. Every change they have made since the Beta has been a step back towards last years game.
They said they won't bring it back because of PRIDE! Please someone who makes changes give me a good reason on why you won't listen to the community? Is anyone out there??!!
We listen to everything. The problem is that you actually don't all agree as much as you think you do. At the highest level you do -- the glory days of the beta were better -- but in the details, there are a lot of pieces people are asking for us to retain and/or are aligned were good ideas that when you look at the actual changes that were in the tuner sets, doesn't align with rolling things back.
We can however consider more improvements moving forward and we are. Some of which may require tweaking existing changes or revisiting what we did and looking at other options to get best of both world scenarios, if possible.
People don't want weak rebound goals or players bumped off the puck from behind on breakaways at low relative speeds but they also want the goalie to challenge shooters more and for players to not be able to hold on to the puck as easy when hit at low relative speeds. Players don't want the ai to play a big role in the outcome of games and want more user controlled defense but they also don't want to see players dancing in the corners where you probably use teammate support in real life to shut those players down easier.
We are listening. Balancing a game when there are multiple opinions isn't easy. But we are listening and actively looking at options in case there are ways to get better results across the board.
I won’t address everything because you obviously are reading all the feedback. I’m an old school hockey sim guy. Been playing the series since it’s inception on SEGA Genesis. I’m a pretty harsh critic because I’m looking for the best offline experience possible but this applies to offline and online....
I can say flat out that what impressed this cynic the most when I played the Beta besides the new skating was that when a player bumped, not checked, the puck carrier along the boards he slightly lost his balance and the puck went lose. The contact, reaction, and animation were fantastic and it stood out to me as just as impressive as the skating. It was something the series was missing. Between that and the skating I thought the series may finally be heading in the right direction.
In my opinion you didn’t need to stop opposing players from catching people on breakaway and knocking them off the puck from behind, you needed to stop making it so easy for them to catch you in the first place. In the games current state physical contact is so unrealistic. Along the boards now defenders who make light contact now just bounce off and the puck carrier continues as if the contact never happened. In open ice it’s even worse. Guys just rag the puck and contact does nothing. You guys were very proud of the New skating and rightfully so but you also touted the physics changes and they were good. Just because people complained doesn’t mean it should have been changed. The game was stale and you guys made some much needed changes but with change comes adjustment on the gamers part. I know you see it as subjective but I’m telling you the game took a major step back with the tuners and does resemble last years game much more than the innovative features you showcased in the Beta. Maybe they weren’t perfect but the direction was right. The Beta should have been built upon instead it went into rewind
What I don't understand is the impression that you give off is that hitting is balanced the way it is now, but then you agree with somebody openly saying that the hitting physics were better from previous tunings of the game. You can't have one without the other.
Did you like the hitting from the beta which simulated realistic angling of players into the boards, or are you content with the balance now of players bouncing off of checks and ricocheting around defenders?
What I don't understand is the impression that you give off is that hitting is balanced the way it is now, but then you agree with somebody openly saying that the hitting physics were better from previous tunings of the game. You can't have one without the other.
Did you like the hitting from the beta which simulated realistic angling of players into the boards, or are you content with the balance now of players bouncing off of checks and ricocheting around defenders?
I was agreeing that it was a well written post. And I think his post has a lot of merit.
If I didn't think the tuning before was going to create a solid hockey experience, we wouldn't have released it. I think it was playing great but that doesn't mean that I think it is playing horribly now. The tuning isn't night and day like some claim. We learn more as we watch people play though. That is why I explain the changes and what we were trying to achieve.
I like puck carriers being more accountable and I like encouraging a team game of hockey but I also agreed that players were getting bumped off the puck too easily on low relative speed hits from behind.
I don't agree when people say they can't hit now. The changes are fairly isolated but players are also looking for ways to abuse the changes as well, so we are always keeping up with that side too.
Should their be some more situations where you should see more of a reaction from players as they get pushed from behind such as having to brace/dip their shoulders? Yes, definitely. In those situations should they lose the puck though? Not necessarily in the way our game was handling it anyways. So we tune around the outcomes and the balance. In future, maybe we would have more stumbles where players keep the puck but without those, we tuned it so the threshold to go from incidental contact to stumble was higher from the back at those low relative speeds.
We have some tuning at the office that may be better but we will continue to play with it and see. Hard to say if we will release a tuner or not but we are looking at it.
What I don't understand is the impression that you give off is that hitting is balanced the way it is now, but then you agree with somebody openly saying that the hitting physics were better from previous tunings of the game. You can't have one without the other.
Did you like the hitting from the beta which simulated realistic angling of players into the boards, or are you content with the balance now of players bouncing off of checks and ricocheting around defenders?
I was agreeing that it was a well written post. And I think his post has a lot of merit.
If I didn't think the tuning before was going to create a solid hockey experience, we wouldn't have released it. I think it was playing great but that doesn't mean that I think it is playing horribly now. The tuning isn't night and day like some claim. We learn more as we watch people play though. That is why I explain the changes and what we were trying to achieve.
I like puck carriers being more accountable and I like encouraging a team game of hockey but I also agreed that players were getting bumped off the puck too easily on low relative speed hits from behind.
I don't agree when people say they can't hit now. The changes are fairly isolated but players are also looking for ways to abuse the changes as well, so we are always keeping up with that side too.
Should their be some more situations where you should see more of a reaction from players as they get pushed from behind such as having to brace/dip their shoulders? Yes, definitely. In those situations should they lose the puck though? Not necessarily in the way our game was handling it anyways. So we tune around the outcomes and the balance. In future, maybe we would have more stumbles where players keep the puck but without those, we tuned it so the threshold to go from incidental contact to stumble was higher from the back at those low relative speeds.
We have some tuning at the office that may be better but we will continue to play with it and see. Hard to say if we will release a tuner or not but we are looking at it.
To me, there should be more emphasis placed on the comparative speeds of the players, and far more impact to balance based on where the carrier is holding the puck.
First, if the carrier is standing still or gliding, and I stride into him for a check - even from directly behind - he should stumble and lose the puck. The only problem with 1.00 hitting was when the CARRIER was striding directly away from a gliding or stationary hitter (who threw a hit directly at the carrier's back) and the carrier stumbled and lost the puck. As it is now, even if the defenseman is going faster than the carrier, there may not be a stumble or lost puck.
Second, when a carrier is holding the puck out to the side and behind him, he should be just as unbalanced - if not more so - than when pulling off a deke. To hold - and control - the puck at such a carrying position with two hands on the stick absolutely unbalances the carrier. But with 1.03, that is one of the most stable positions a carrier can be in - more so than simply gliding without touching the right stick. Holding the puck that far out does - and should - give you good protection against pokes and stick lifts. But what it does give you - and absolutely not give you - is resistance to hitting. In fact, it should make you MORE vulnerable to a hit.
There needs to be more of a rock/paper/scissors mechanic at play here. Such as: holding the puck out (by manipulating the right stick) protects from stick check but makes you vulnerable to hits. Carrying the puck normally (without manipulating the right stick) makes you vulnerable to stick checks but keeps you more balanced against hits.
As it is now, manipulating the carry position with the right stick cannot be properly countered by the defense.
What I don't understand is the impression that you give off is that hitting is balanced the way it is now, but then you agree with somebody openly saying that the hitting physics were better from previous tunings of the game. You can't have one without the other.
Did you like the hitting from the beta which simulated realistic angling of players into the boards, or are you content with the balance now of players bouncing off of checks and ricocheting around defenders?
I was agreeing that it was a well written post. And I think his post has a lot of merit.
If I didn't think the tuning before was going to create a solid hockey experience, we wouldn't have released it. I think it was playing great but that doesn't mean that I think it is playing horribly now. The tuning isn't night and day like some claim. We learn more as we watch people play though. That is why I explain the changes and what we were trying to achieve.
I like puck carriers being more accountable and I like encouraging a team game of hockey but I also agreed that players were getting bumped off the puck too easily on low relative speed hits from behind.
I don't agree when people say they can't hit now. The changes are fairly isolated but players are also looking for ways to abuse the changes as well, so we are always keeping up with that side too.
Should their be some more situations where you should see more of a reaction from players as they get pushed from behind such as having to brace/dip their shoulders? Yes, definitely. In those situations should they lose the puck though? Not necessarily in the way our game was handling it anyways. So we tune around the outcomes and the balance. In future, maybe we would have more stumbles where players keep the puck but without those, we tuned it so the threshold to go from incidental contact to stumble was higher from the back at those low relative speeds.
We have some tuning at the office that may be better but we will continue to play with it and see. Hard to say if we will release a tuner or not but we are looking at it.
I know most of the streams are HUT but you should watch some of the esports streams league gaming has to gauge better how the community plays, HUT and EASHL are played and play themselves completely differently.
I know most of the streams are HUT but you should watch some of the esports streams league gaming has to gauge better how the community plays, HUT and EASHL are played and play themselves completely differently.
To me, there should be more emphasis placed on the comparative speeds of the players, and far more impact to balance based on where the carrier is holding the puck.
First, if the carrier is standing still or gliding, and I stride into him for a check - even from directly behind - he should stumble and lose the puck. The only problem with 1.00 hitting was when the CARRIER was striding directly away from a gliding or stationary hitter (who threw a hit directly at the carrier's back) and the carrier stumbled and lost the puck. As it is now, even if the defenseman is going faster than the carrier, there may not be a stumble or lost puck.
Second, when a carrier is holding the puck out to the side and behind him, he should be just as unbalanced - if not more so - than when pulling off a deke. To hold - and control - the puck at such a carrying position with two hands on the stick absolutely unbalances the carrier. But with 1.03, that is one of the most stable positions a carrier can be in - more so than simply gliding without touching the right stick. Holding the puck that far out does - and should - give you good protection against pokes and stick lifts. But what it does give you - and absolutely not give you - is resistance to hitting. In fact, it should make you MORE vulnerable to a hit.
There needs to be more of a rock/paper/scissors mechanic at play here. Such as: holding the puck out (by manipulating the right stick) protects from stick check but makes you vulnerable to hits. Carrying the puck normally (without manipulating the right stick) makes you vulnerable to stick checks but keeps you more balanced against hits.
As it is now, manipulating the carry position with the right stick cannot be properly countered by the defense.
It is more complex than rock paper scissors as the variables in relative speeds, size of players, attributes of players, where the puck carrier has the puck and where their center of mass is and the variation of the angles of how direct the hit is, are more fine ranges than those in a mechanic with 3 options only but at the core, it works as you describe.
Right now, you just feel that a player is too balanced when hit at lower relative speeds towards their center of mass on average. Depending on the players involved, you will get different results even with the same speed check.
A player hit away from the puck loses it on the first frame regardless of the outcome but if they are hit towards the puck, it depends on how big the collision is if they go into a stumble that would make them lose the puck or an even bigger reaction.
If the player rolls the puck back behind them they are actually less balanced as you ask and a regular glide standing there isn't any less balanced than when you have the puck to the side as far as the glide balance goes but if you get hit away vs towards the puck is what makes a difference as you are getting hit further away from your center of mass or towards it. So it will take a bigger hit to push you towards and past your center of mass than to be pushed further away from it right away.
What I don't understand is the impression that you give off is that hitting is balanced the way it is now, but then you agree with somebody openly saying that the hitting physics were better from previous tunings of the game. You can't have one without the other.
Did you like the hitting from the beta which simulated realistic angling of players into the boards, or are you content with the balance now of players bouncing off of checks and ricocheting around defenders?
I was agreeing that it was a well written post. And I think his post has a lot of merit.
If I didn't think the tuning before was going to create a solid hockey experience, we wouldn't have released it. I think it was playing great but that doesn't mean that I think it is playing horribly now. The tuning isn't night and day like some claim. We learn more as we watch people play though. That is why I explain the changes and what we were trying to achieve.
I like puck carriers being more accountable and I like encouraging a team game of hockey but I also agreed that players were getting bumped off the puck too easily on low relative speed hits from behind.
I don't agree when people say they can't hit now. The changes are fairly isolated but players are also looking for ways to abuse the changes as well, so we are always keeping up with that side too.
Should their be some more situations where you should see more of a reaction from players as they get pushed from behind such as having to brace/dip their shoulders? Yes, definitely. In those situations should they lose the puck though? Not necessarily in the way our game was handling it anyways. So we tune around the outcomes and the balance. In future, maybe we would have more stumbles where players keep the puck but without those, we tuned it so the threshold to go from incidental contact to stumble was higher from the back at those low relative speeds.
We have some tuning at the office that may be better but we will continue to play with it and see. Hard to say if we will release a tuner or not but we are looking at it.
Just curious, do you guys find that when tuning the game that sometimes you fix something but something else gets messed up? Kind of unintended consequences. I used to tinker with sliders to the point of madness because of that and I’m just wondering if that is a challenge you guys face when tuning the game.
Replies
Do you all have the ability to tune that to a certain angle of the hit? So for example, keep the hits like 1.03 if the opponent is hit directly from behind (at 6 o'clock or 180°), but revert back to 1.00 hitting for all hits over 7 o'clock or under 5 o'clock (or like greater than 200° or less than 160°?
Basically, as long as you get hit nearly directly from behind you won't lose the puck (ie breakaway), but if hit from the back-side or side you will lose the puck like in 1.00?
Basically like how a trip from directly behind on a breakaway is penalty shot, but a trip from a diagonal on a breakaway is not?
I won’t address everything because you obviously are reading all the feedback. I’m an old school hockey sim guy. Been playing the series since it’s inception on SEGA Genesis. I’m a pretty harsh critic because I’m looking for the best offline experience possible but this applies to offline and online....
I can say flat out that what impressed this cynic the most when I played the Beta besides the new skating was that when a player bumped, not checked, the puck carrier along the boards he slightly lost his balance and the puck went loose. The contact, reaction, and animation were fantastic and it stood out to me as just as impressive as the skating. It was something the series was missing. Between that and the skating I thought the series may finally be heading in the right direction.
In my opinion you didn’t need to stop opposing players from catching people on breakaway and knocking them off the puck from behind, you needed to stop making it so easy for them to catch you in the first place. In the games current state physical contact is so unrealistic. Along the boards now defenders who make light contact now just bounce off and the puck carrier continues as if the contact never happened. In open ice it’s even worse. Guys just rag the puck and contact does nothing. You guys were very proud of the New skating and rightfully so but you also touted the physics changes and they were good. Just because people complained doesn’t mean it should have been changed. The game was stale and you guys made some much needed changes but with change comes adjustment on the gamers part. I know you see it as subjective but I’m telling you the game took a major step back with the tuners and does resemble last years game much more than the innovative features you showcased in the Beta. Maybe they weren’t perfect but the direction was right. The Beta should have been built upon instead it went into rewind
I played some offline games today with 1.03 and kept going into instant replay and watching physical contact. It's pretty crazy how hard it is to knock a player off the puck now. If you can keep your back turned to the defender no matter how hard they shove you they cannot budge you. Even if you skate into a player with the puck who has his back turned at a decent speed you just bounce off.
And I like what Jake said about breakaways, It's a good point. If the big issue was being shoved off the puck on breakaways than why was it so easy to catch up so fast.
It's nice to hear you guys are looking into the problems a lot of us are complaining about. I really hope you guys come through on the next tuner, this game can be great with a few tweaks to player balance, physical contact and easy goals with no screen.
Heh, I've been a bit too harsh, but I know how fun this game can be without ragging and cheese goals.
The way it used to work (in beta and really last year or so) in this game none of this was true. You could skate right past a defender who is now beat but the hitting animation let him somehow turn and check you in the back, you stumble like a 3 year old that doesn't know how to skate and to top it all off the puck seemed to go backwards right to the stick of the defender who was beat but now has the puck and usually a free lane to carry it out in, since he was behind you.
Seemingly the physics and hitting engines must be too limited to fix that without creating the current issue we have. Which is its a little more difficult to check someone from behind than it should be. That being said it happens to me all the time so I'm not sure really what the problem is other than maybe it's because i'm playing as a 6' 195lb skater not a 6'4 250lb goon. many people compensate for not really being able to play actual hockey in this game with playing large players that let them hold on to the puck unrealistically (because defensive stick work in this game is AWFUL).
Yet, EA thinks it's just fine. I've never read such bad reviews for an EA title than I have for this game, just embarrassing really.
The weak rebound goals where not that bad. Goalies are worse now than before. I'd take those rebound goals over the short side post goals. The game isn't updated well. The relative speed just makes your legends better. Those guys don't even have higher speed than some low 80 players but still out-skate them? Any tuner based off skating and speed was not a good tuner and has had nothing but complaints.
I don't see how have the changes could be called improvements. The changes just took away one issue and caused another. you can't now spam the hit but with that you can't really hit well at all. Players now have incredible balance when it comes to hitting but 0 when it comes to sticks touching skates.
Changes in the stick lifting caused changes in defensive skill stick. I can skate into anyone with a DSS and get a tripping call. I don't see how we can call this improvements.
I think the best way to move forward is to go back to Beta tuner give it a few weeks then see what can be changed. Prior to releasing these changes make sure it didn't create any other issues. If the change is made for the better and no other issues are present then we can call it an improvement. We want NHL 19 back and I think that is clear. Just bring back the Beta and see if you get more players or less. This might help not having to release new versions of the game after launch.
They don't care about stopping players they care about legends getting stopped. They needed to make the cards stand out so that people pay more money to get those cards on the team. In doing this has caused bad changes and if they would do the right thing and go to Beta tuner it would make players skate fairly again.
Beta 100%
But if they had this current product on release date it would be NHL 18. Every change they have made since the Beta has been a step back towards last years game.
Well said. I second this.
What I don't understand is the impression that you give off is that hitting is balanced the way it is now, but then you agree with somebody openly saying that the hitting physics were better from previous tunings of the game. You can't have one without the other.
Did you like the hitting from the beta which simulated realistic angling of players into the boards, or are you content with the balance now of players bouncing off of checks and ricocheting around defenders?
If I didn't think the tuning before was going to create a solid hockey experience, we wouldn't have released it. I think it was playing great but that doesn't mean that I think it is playing horribly now. The tuning isn't night and day like some claim. We learn more as we watch people play though. That is why I explain the changes and what we were trying to achieve.
I like puck carriers being more accountable and I like encouraging a team game of hockey but I also agreed that players were getting bumped off the puck too easily on low relative speed hits from behind.
I don't agree when people say they can't hit now. The changes are fairly isolated but players are also looking for ways to abuse the changes as well, so we are always keeping up with that side too.
Should their be some more situations where you should see more of a reaction from players as they get pushed from behind such as having to brace/dip their shoulders? Yes, definitely. In those situations should they lose the puck though? Not necessarily in the way our game was handling it anyways. So we tune around the outcomes and the balance. In future, maybe we would have more stumbles where players keep the puck but without those, we tuned it so the threshold to go from incidental contact to stumble was higher from the back at those low relative speeds.
We have some tuning at the office that may be better but we will continue to play with it and see. Hard to say if we will release a tuner or not but we are looking at it.
To me, there should be more emphasis placed on the comparative speeds of the players, and far more impact to balance based on where the carrier is holding the puck.
First, if the carrier is standing still or gliding, and I stride into him for a check - even from directly behind - he should stumble and lose the puck. The only problem with 1.00 hitting was when the CARRIER was striding directly away from a gliding or stationary hitter (who threw a hit directly at the carrier's back) and the carrier stumbled and lost the puck. As it is now, even if the defenseman is going faster than the carrier, there may not be a stumble or lost puck.
Second, when a carrier is holding the puck out to the side and behind him, he should be just as unbalanced - if not more so - than when pulling off a deke. To hold - and control - the puck at such a carrying position with two hands on the stick absolutely unbalances the carrier. But with 1.03, that is one of the most stable positions a carrier can be in - more so than simply gliding without touching the right stick. Holding the puck that far out does - and should - give you good protection against pokes and stick lifts. But what it does give you - and absolutely not give you - is resistance to hitting. In fact, it should make you MORE vulnerable to a hit.
There needs to be more of a rock/paper/scissors mechanic at play here. Such as: holding the puck out (by manipulating the right stick) protects from stick check but makes you vulnerable to hits. Carrying the puck normally (without manipulating the right stick) makes you vulnerable to stick checks but keeps you more balanced against hits.
As it is now, manipulating the carry position with the right stick cannot be properly countered by the defense.
I know most of the streams are HUT but you should watch some of the esports streams league gaming has to gauge better how the community plays, HUT and EASHL are played and play themselves completely differently.
Right now, you just feel that a player is too balanced when hit at lower relative speeds towards their center of mass on average. Depending on the players involved, you will get different results even with the same speed check.
A player hit away from the puck loses it on the first frame regardless of the outcome but if they are hit towards the puck, it depends on how big the collision is if they go into a stumble that would make them lose the puck or an even bigger reaction.
If the player rolls the puck back behind them they are actually less balanced as you ask and a regular glide standing there isn't any less balanced than when you have the puck to the side as far as the glide balance goes but if you get hit away vs towards the puck is what makes a difference as you are getting hit further away from your center of mass or towards it. So it will take a bigger hit to push you towards and past your center of mass than to be pushed further away from it right away.
Just curious, do you guys find that when tuning the game that sometimes you fix something but something else gets messed up? Kind of unintended consequences. I used to tinker with sliders to the point of madness because of that and I’m just wondering if that is a challenge you guys face when tuning the game.