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Dear Dev’s: A week after the patch we’re wondering about the tuner?

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Title says it all.
Couple issues I’ve read and commented on the boards here, as well as hearing similar sentiments echoed on mikes in game and..well...any news?
All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..

Replies

  • Nxckles
    92 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    My guess is that the final tuner drops next week, probably between the 19th and 21st. But I wouldn't expect much based on the changes they've made since the beta...
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    There isn’t anything to confirm regarding a new tuner at this time.
  • My guess is that they're satisfied with the abundance of feedback we don't have access to, praising the game in its current state.
  • My guess is that they're satisfied with the abundance of feedback we don't have access to, praising the game in its current state.

    We don't have access to it because it doesn't exist
  • BruinsHockey08
    1331 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Why would they release a tuner that fast? Shouldn't EA try to see what the patch does or does not fix and then modify from there? I don't mind EA not releasing a tuner right away, they may have wanted to see how well the patch was being perceived before making any changes.
  • Nxckles
    92 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Why would they release a tuner that fast? Shouldn't EA try to see what the patch does or does not fix and then modify from there? I don't mind EA not releasing a tuner right away, they may have wanted to see how well the patch was being perceived before making any changes.

    The last patch had zero gameplay changes (except to fix a couple of bugs) according to the notes. The last time they made changes to the gameplay was a month and a half ago which is beyond ridiculous considering how bad the game is currently.
  • WainGretSki
    3660 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    There isn’t anything to confirm regarding a new tuner at this time.

    This saddens me quite a bit considering I was hoping for a fair compromise between the beta and 1.03

    As much as you feel it was geared to far to one end in the beta, I feel it is geared too far to the other end with the current tuner. I would think a middle ground would be very possible and acceptable. Stick lifts were extremely op, and now they are practically useless. This alone needs a fix and should have been done by now imo.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    There isn’t anything to confirm regarding a new tuner at this time.

    This saddens me quite a bit considering I was hoping for a fair compromise between the beta and 1.03

    As much as you feel it was geared to far to one end in the beta, I feel it is geared too far to the other end with the current tuner. I would think a middle ground would be very possible and acceptable. Stick lifts were extremely op, and now they are practically useless. This alone needs a fix and should have been done by now imo.

    I have to agree with you man. A middle ground might not be EXACTLY what I want because I prefer beta tuner as well but even a middle ground would be more tolerable, acceptable, and most likely appease a greater number of people
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    The last patch had zero gameplay changes (except to fix a couple of bugs) according to the notes. The last time they made changes to the gameplay was a month and a half ago which is beyond ridiculous considering how bad the game is currently.
    This is where everyone assumes if we made changes it would be what they are after.

    The post you had written before that documented the analysis from LG regarding scoring being down had a lot of comments around stifling defense. Other players were still saying at the time that penalties were far too high and others felt that they were learning how to adapt and having a lot of success on defense.

    Right now, some players want us to roll back the changes to low relative speed hits from behind that were easily stumbling players and knocking them off the puck. This would only make it harder for offensive players that get space and beat their man to retain control of the puck like it was before. Personally, I liked the way the game played then and thought offense had to work a bit harder to move the puck but I also think that defense can work harder now to stay goal side in good position so that the puck has to move through them on the way to the net.

    Were you hoping we would turn off incidental stick on stick and body contact in general instead rather than focus on isolated areas where the defense shouldn't have as much of advantage (i.e. when beat)?
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    The last patch had zero gameplay changes (except to fix a couple of bugs) according to the notes. The last time they made changes to the gameplay was a month and a half ago which is beyond ridiculous considering how bad the game is currently.
    This is where everyone assumes if we made changes it would be what they are after.

    The post you had written before that documented the analysis from LG regarding scoring being down had a lot of comments around stifling defense. Other players were still saying at the time that penalties were far too high and others felt that they were learning how to adapt and having a lot of success on defense.

    Right now, some players want us to roll back the changes to low relative speed hits from behind that were easily stumbling players and knocking them off the puck. This would only make it harder for offensive players that get space and beat their man to retain control of the puck like it was before. Personally, I liked the way the game played then and thought offense had to work a bit harder to move the puck but I also think that defense can work harder now to stay goal side in good position so that the puck has to move through them on the way to the net.

    Were you hoping we would turn off incidental stick on stick and body contact in general instead rather than focus on isolated areas where the defense shouldn't have as much of advantage (i.e. when beat)?

    Well, they seem to have all the room they want now. With D in front, to the sides, and behind. The problem wasn't them being knocked from behind, IMO. It's when they got hit from behind the puck seemed to stop on a dime and a turnover occurred. If the puck continues forward then they have a chances to recover it, as well as the D working his **** off to recover as well.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    The last patch had zero gameplay changes (except to fix a couple of bugs) according to the notes. The last time they made changes to the gameplay was a month and a half ago which is beyond ridiculous considering how bad the game is currently.
    This is where everyone assumes if we made changes it would be what they are after.

    The post you had written before that documented the analysis from LG regarding scoring being down had a lot of comments around stifling defense. Other players were still saying at the time that penalties were far too high and others felt that they were learning how to adapt and having a lot of success on defense.

    Right now, some players want us to roll back the changes to low relative speed hits from behind that were easily stumbling players and knocking them off the puck. This would only make it harder for offensive players that get space and beat their man to retain control of the puck like it was before. Personally, I liked the way the game played then and thought offense had to work a bit harder to move the puck but I also think that defense can work harder now to stay goal side in good position so that the puck has to move through them on the way to the net.

    Were you hoping we would turn off incidental stick on stick and body contact in general instead rather than focus on isolated areas where the defense shouldn't have as much of advantage (i.e. when beat)?

    Please don't ever turn off the incidental stick on stick or stick on leg contact again. That's been one of the best changes in this series. (Assuming I understand what you are talking about, where a puck carrier will lose a puck when trying to drag it through a defender).
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Personally, I liked the way the game played then and thought offense had to work a bit harder to move the puck but I also think that defense can work harder now to stay goal side in good position so that the puck has to move through them on the way to the net.

    Interesting, thanks. So then what compelled you to change it to favor the offensive player and puck possession, given the noted significant effect on gameplay overall? And why the reluctance to change it back with so many in the community clamoring for it? Same question for goalies and the shots going in now (more like 18) vs. then.
  • Nxckles
    92 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    The last patch had zero gameplay changes (except to fix a couple of bugs) according to the notes. The last time they made changes to the gameplay was a month and a half ago which is beyond ridiculous considering how bad the game is currently.
    This is where everyone assumes if we made changes it would be what they are after.

    The post you had written before that documented the analysis from LG regarding scoring being down had a lot of comments around stifling defense. Other players were still saying at the time that penalties were far too high and others felt that they were learning how to adapt and having a lot of success on defense.

    Right now, some players want us to roll back the changes to low relative speed hits from behind that were easily stumbling players and knocking them off the puck. This would only make it harder for offensive players that get space and beat their man to retain control of the puck like it was before. Personally, I liked the way the game played then and thought offense had to work a bit harder to move the puck but I also think that defense can work harder now to stay goal side in good position so that the puck has to move through them on the way to the net.

    Were you hoping we would turn off incidental stick on stick and body contact in general instead rather than focus on isolated areas where the defense shouldn't have as much of advantage (i.e. when beat)?

    With all the things that need adjusting in this game, yes, I think turning off the incidental contact is the easiest and most effective short-term fix for this game. Skating into someone (without hitting, poking, or stick lifting) is the safest and most effective way to take the puck away and that's a problem. I can't see EA spending the time needed to properly balance the gameplay for NHL 19 since I imagine most of the focus is on NHL 20 right now. And this is just a guess for me, for all I know it could make almost no difference, I'm sure you guys can easily test this at the studio.

    Keep in mind my opinions are mostly about EASHL 6's where there are 10 skaters being controlled at once, not HUT/VS where it's two skaters being controlled at once. I only play defense in 6's, and have done so since NHL 09, and I find the overall offense/defense (and goaltending) balance in this game to be pretty...unbalanced to put it nicely. It feels like the game doesn't reward good play, and 90% of games are decided by random bounces. And I'm not alone in thinking this, a lot of people in LG feel the same way. A shocking number of people who used to play EASHL/club religiously in their spare time don't even touch it anymore because it's just not enjoyable.
  • Nuckles37 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    The last patch had zero gameplay changes (except to fix a couple of bugs) according to the notes. The last time they made changes to the gameplay was a month and a half ago which is beyond ridiculous considering how bad the game is currently.
    This is where everyone assumes if we made changes it would be what they are after.

    The post you had written before that documented the analysis from LG regarding scoring being down had a lot of comments around stifling defense. Other players were still saying at the time that penalties were far too high and others felt that they were learning how to adapt and having a lot of success on defense.

    Right now, some players want us to roll back the changes to low relative speed hits from behind that were easily stumbling players and knocking them off the puck. This would only make it harder for offensive players that get space and beat their man to retain control of the puck like it was before. Personally, I liked the way the game played then and thought offense had to work a bit harder to move the puck but I also think that defense can work harder now to stay goal side in good position so that the puck has to move through them on the way to the net.

    Were you hoping we would turn off incidental stick on stick and body contact in general instead rather than focus on isolated areas where the defense shouldn't have as much of advantage (i.e. when beat)?

    With all the things that need adjusting in this game, yes, I think turning off the incidental contact is the easiest and most effective short-term fix for this game. Skating into someone (without hitting, poking, or stick lifting) is the safest and most effective way to take the puck away and that's a problem. I can't see EA spending the time needed to properly balance the gameplay for NHL 19 since I imagine most of the focus is on NHL 20 right now. And this is just a guess for me, for all I know it could make almost no difference, I'm sure you guys can easily test this at the studio.

    Keep in mind my opinions are mostly about EASHL 6's where there are 10 skaters being controlled at once, not HUT/VS where it's two skaters being controlled at once. I only play defense in 6's, and have done so since NHL 09, and I find the overall offense/defense (and goaltending) balance in this game to be pretty...unbalanced to put it nicely. It feels like the game doesn't reward good play, and 90% of games are decided by random bounces. And I'm not alone in thinking this, a lot of people in LG feel the same way. A shocking number of people who used to play EASHL/club religiously in their spare time don't even touch it anymore because it's just not enjoyable.

    Turning defenders into holograms doesn't solve anything except reverting this game back to dark ages.

    The game does not appropriately reward good play, you are correct, but skating into the other teams defenders isn't good play, and should also not be rewarded by letting you keep the puck. Pass it or chip it to open space, pick a big player build and try to power your way through, pick a dangler and go around them, or just throw a puck on net.

    I agree 6's feels crowded. That isn't because defenders actually impact play now, it's because it is actually crowded. With server lag and the lack of fidelity in controls, it will always feel croweded, they need a slightly bigger ice surface, or slightly smaller player scale. Or play 3's, at least that still has a little bit of fun in it.

  • Nxckles
    92 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Nuckles37 wrote: »
    The last patch had zero gameplay changes (except to fix a couple of bugs) according to the notes. The last time they made changes to the gameplay was a month and a half ago which is beyond ridiculous considering how bad the game is currently.
    This is where everyone assumes if we made changes it would be what they are after.

    The post you had written before that documented the analysis from LG regarding scoring being down had a lot of comments around stifling defense. Other players were still saying at the time that penalties were far too high and others felt that they were learning how to adapt and having a lot of success on defense.

    Right now, some players want us to roll back the changes to low relative speed hits from behind that were easily stumbling players and knocking them off the puck. This would only make it harder for offensive players that get space and beat their man to retain control of the puck like it was before. Personally, I liked the way the game played then and thought offense had to work a bit harder to move the puck but I also think that defense can work harder now to stay goal side in good position so that the puck has to move through them on the way to the net.

    Were you hoping we would turn off incidental stick on stick and body contact in general instead rather than focus on isolated areas where the defense shouldn't have as much of advantage (i.e. when beat)?

    With all the things that need adjusting in this game, yes, I think turning off the incidental contact is the easiest and most effective short-term fix for this game. Skating into someone (without hitting, poking, or stick lifting) is the safest and most effective way to take the puck away and that's a problem. I can't see EA spending the time needed to properly balance the gameplay for NHL 19 since I imagine most of the focus is on NHL 20 right now. And this is just a guess for me, for all I know it could make almost no difference, I'm sure you guys can easily test this at the studio.

    Keep in mind my opinions are mostly about EASHL 6's where there are 10 skaters being controlled at once, not HUT/VS where it's two skaters being controlled at once. I only play defense in 6's, and have done so since NHL 09, and I find the overall offense/defense (and goaltending) balance in this game to be pretty...unbalanced to put it nicely. It feels like the game doesn't reward good play, and 90% of games are decided by random bounces. And I'm not alone in thinking this, a lot of people in LG feel the same way. A shocking number of people who used to play EASHL/club religiously in their spare time don't even touch it anymore because it's just not enjoyable.

    Turning defenders into holograms doesn't solve anything except reverting this game back to dark ages.

    The game does not appropriately reward good play, you are correct, but skating into the other teams defenders isn't good play, and should also not be rewarded by letting you keep the puck. Pass it or chip it to open space, pick a big player build and try to power your way through, pick a dangler and go around them, or just throw a puck on net.

    I agree 6's feels crowded. That isn't because defenders actually impact play now, it's because it is actually crowded. With server lag and the lack of fidelity in controls, it will always feel croweded, they need a slightly bigger ice surface, or slightly smaller player scale. Or play 3's, at least that still has a little bit of fun in it.

    The problem isn't the puck carrier skating directly into defenders and losing the puck, it's that the puck carrier has lower speed (due to the speed penalty while having the puck) so that defenders can catch them quickly, and the defending team playing the trap can easily surround the puck carrier when they try to enter the offensive zone.

    Like I said, a lot the aspects of this game need to be adjusted/balanced, and I can guarantee EA won't put the time into fixing it for NHL 19 this late after the release. But it's something I feel like they should test as a short-term fix to make this game somewhat enjoyable, and maybe only implement it for 6's if possible.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Interesting, thanks. So then what compelled you to change it to favor the offensive player and puck possession, given the noted significant effect on gameplay overall? And why the reluctance to change it back with so many in the community clamoring for it? Same question for goalies and the shots going in now (more like 18) vs. then.
    Well, it isn't choosing to favor offense over defense as a global parameter. It is trying to keep the game balanced so choosing in the case where defenders are behind to not give them an advantage they don't deserve. They can still push players off the puck in these scenarios, just not as easily as they could before. It rewards players who are in better defensive position over those that get beat more often. It also rewards players that have patience, smart positioning and can get an offense player to compromise their position and expose the puck.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Nuckles37 wrote: »

    With all the things that need adjusting in this game, yes, I think turning off the incidental contact is the easiest and most effective short-term fix for this game. Skating into someone (without hitting, poking, or stick lifting) is the safest and most effective way to take the puck away and that's a problem. I can't see EA spending the time needed to properly balance the gameplay for NHL 19 since I imagine most of the focus is on NHL 20 right now. And this is just a guess for me, for all I know it could make almost no difference, I'm sure you guys can easily test this at the studio.

    Keep in mind my opinions are mostly about EASHL 6's where there are 10 skaters being controlled at once, not HUT/VS where it's two skaters being controlled at once. I only play defense in 6's, and have done so since NHL 09, and I find the overall offense/defense (and goaltending) balance in this game to be pretty...unbalanced to put it nicely. It feels like the game doesn't reward good play, and 90% of games are decided by random bounces. And I'm not alone in thinking this, a lot of people in LG feel the same way. A shocking number of people who used to play EASHL/club religiously in their spare time don't even touch it anymore because it's just not enjoyable.

    Interesting. I actually felt the biggest problem with the old games was that body position didn't matter near enough and that players being able to walk right through you the same as they would if you weren't there was one of the main balance problems with the game in the past.

    It is good to speak about some specifics like that though as otherwise people think they are aligned with each other when you speak too high level.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Well, it isn't choosing to favor offense over defense as a global parameter. It is trying to keep the game balanced so choosing in the case where defenders are behind to not give them an advantage they don't deserve. They can still push players off the puck in these scenarios, just not as easily as they could before. It rewards players who are in better defensive position over those that get beat more often. It also rewards players that have patience, smart positioning and can get an offense player to compromise their position and expose the puck.

    That’s generally understandable, but the effects are felt far more than simply when a defensive player gets “beat.” I’m sure you’re aware how it is easily abused now to skate at lower speeds and turn away from defenders right before a hit is lodged, which completely nullifies the contact. That may not have been what you intended, but I think is the source of much of the frustration here. Puck ragging, particularly in 1 vs 1 online modes, is not difficult but rewarded and encouraged—and not necessarily because the offensive player made a good hockey play.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    Please don't ever turn off the incidental stick on stick or stick on leg contact again. That's been one of the best changes in this series. (Assuming I understand what you are talking about, where a puck carrier will lose a puck when trying to drag it through a defender).
    Ya, it was just to gauge where Nuckles stood when he referred to game balance. Since I knew from his post a while back that he felt that defense was overly favored this year, I wanted to be clear when he was in a thread where everyone at a high level wanted us to tune the game, that not everyone was aligned.

    Many want the tuning rolled back where it was easier for defenders to knock players off the puck from behind and he is looking to nerf defenders further.

    Just an interesting example of what I see often where on the surface it sometimes feels like everyone is in alignment but it isn't the case when you get into the details.

  • Nxckles
    92 posts Member
    edited December 2018
    NHLDev wrote: »
    Nuckles37 wrote: »

    With all the things that need adjusting in this game, yes, I think turning off the incidental contact is the easiest and most effective short-term fix for this game. Skating into someone (without hitting, poking, or stick lifting) is the safest and most effective way to take the puck away and that's a problem. I can't see EA spending the time needed to properly balance the gameplay for NHL 19 since I imagine most of the focus is on NHL 20 right now. And this is just a guess for me, for all I know it could make almost no difference, I'm sure you guys can easily test this at the studio.

    Keep in mind my opinions are mostly about EASHL 6's where there are 10 skaters being controlled at once, not HUT/VS where it's two skaters being controlled at once. I only play defense in 6's, and have done so since NHL 09, and I find the overall offense/defense (and goaltending) balance in this game to be pretty...unbalanced to put it nicely. It feels like the game doesn't reward good play, and 90% of games are decided by random bounces. And I'm not alone in thinking this, a lot of people in LG feel the same way. A shocking number of people who used to play EASHL/club religiously in their spare time don't even touch it anymore because it's just not enjoyable.

    Interesting. I actually felt the biggest problem with the old games was that body position didn't matter near enough and that players being able to walk right through you the same as they would if you weren't there was one of the main balance problems with the game in the past.

    It is good to speak about some specifics like that though as otherwise people think they are aligned with each other when you speak too high level.

    Yes, it was a problem on last-gen, but other aspects of the game are greatly different now compared to then. And as a short-term fix for this year's game in EASHL 6's I think it could possibly make the game more balanced and less frustrating. Defense is much stronger in NHL 19 compared to last-gen (though incidental contact does play a part in that). And maybe if incidental contact is removed, bumps can be brought back into the fold to prevent defense from becoming too weak.

    Would I like to see changes to skating, shot accuracy/power, pass interceptions, stick handling/deking, puck control, stick checking, goalie reach/reaction speed, etc? Absolutely, but I don't see the changes that are needed being made this late after release.
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