Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
There's no immunity to putting the puck on your backhand. Look at the physics of this clip. The carrier is moving away from the defender. They are both moving very slow. There's very little opposing force here. Even if they were knocked off the puck, they'd probably get it back as it's on his backhand and chances are good it's going to be pushed away off his backhand, but still within reach of the carrier.
With all due respect. I was looking at the nhl 18 forum and i saw you in there arguing against what prople were saying about last years game. In my opinion i think you are too close to the franchise to objectively reply to what everyone is suggesting. It takes a lot of effort to keep replying to people while trying to counter arguments each year.
Anyway, if a real hockey player moves the puck to the same position, a slight nudge would likely cause him to lose the puck. Certain stick positions should be more prone to losing the puck when contact is made. The video showed a situation that shouldnt happen (using odd stick positions to become invincible every now and then).
I don't just counter everything just because. I do it because that's how I feel. This community doesn't do well with those that feel differently. If you don't agree, you either work for EA, are a fan boy, troll or any number of things. I'm as close to this series as anyone else here. I just have different opinions.
I don't see how a slight nudge is going to knock the puck loose from a pro player in this case. You are never invincible just by pulling the puck to your backhand/forehand. For this play in particular, look what's happening. I've already explained it so I won't do it again. I don't see how a nudge should make you lose the puck in this scenario. Again, even if they did, the defender is in a bad position to pick it up.
In my opinion, it's not even a slight nudge. If this works the way they should, my gaining speed from backwards crossovers pivoting right into a hit would have creamed a player who is off hand twisted like that player is.
Strides and momentum. How do they work.
It only looks like a nudge because the moving player somehow absorbs my speed. Looks like I'm hitting an immovable pillow.
You absolutely have enough lateral motion from cutting a C with the left foot to get the right foot between his legs into a board pin. A great skater could pivot and riding then his forearms against the boards sticklift/pick up puck and carried it away.
Btw: I play mostly forward now but this sort of thing works at both ends of the ice.
Ps: totally going to have to agree to disagree regarding the definition of puck possession and Crosby. I think a highlight reel of a young Gretzky, young Lemieux..not many others ..would have served your point better.
All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
I am hoping the EA hockey team will listen. There now appears to be a glitch when playing competitive seasons. People are now quitting and getting the win while the person who doesnt quit is getting the loss. It it is damaging the game and makes the ranking extremely unfair. Please fix this. A person should not be able to glitch quit and get the win. EA hockey, needs to build a griefing system, like Madden, which automatically boots these individuals from competing if they intend to glitch or hack the game. This is a new issue and only starting happening about 1 week ago. I play the game alot and find it quite frustrating that a person can quit, even when I'm winning and I get the loss which drops me further down the Rank. I am sure others are experiencing this. PLEASE FIX with new update coming.
here's a video of how a real hockey player maintains possession through extreme pressure from the defense. yes this is a video of one of the greatest hockey players ever but he's not superman, he can't defy physics. he combines strength and skill with making physics work for him not against.
The video starts with him getting knocked down twice on pushes from the back where the defenseman is essentially standing still. Very hard - I'd say close to impossible - to do that against any player with reasonable balance ratings under the new tuner.
The nudges from behind in the beta were definitely overpowered. But any reasonable person has to acknowledge they overcorrected. It's now unrealistically easy for players to retain the puck after shoves and hits, which is why you see so much figure skating and dancing in the corners in 1v1 modes.
yeah it's not great right now but it's better than beta. going back to beta is a horrible idea. They know it, they are only agreeing to do it (temporarily) because they know it will be a total flop and they can finally put a nail in the coffin for all the people complaining that the game was amazing in beta and now is total garbage, nhl 18.5
a total waste of time, they should be instead working on further tweaking of the existing code.
Actually they are going back because the overwhelming majority of people disagree with your sentiment here.
In real life, size isn't nearly as important as in this game. Tom Wilson and Brad Marchand are both headhunters. Wilson is 6'4". Marchand is 5'9". Both hit hard and can knock people off the puck in real life - but not in this game.
In real life, the big player has more strength, but the smaller player has better natural leverage. This is why small players can hit. This game does not respect that. You don't have to be huge to knock someone over.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
There's no immunity to putting the puck on your backhand. Look at the physics of this clip. The carrier is moving away from the defender. They are both moving very slow. There's very little opposing force here. Even if they were knocked off the puck, they'd probably get it back as it's on his backhand and chances are good it's going to be pushed away off his backhand, but still within reach of the carrier.
With all due respect. I was looking at the nhl 18 forum and i saw you in there arguing against what prople were saying about last years game. In my opinion i think you are too close to the franchise to objectively reply to what everyone is suggesting. It takes a lot of effort to keep replying to people while trying to counter arguments each year.
Anyway, if a real hockey player moves the puck to the same position, a slight nudge would likely cause him to lose the puck. Certain stick positions should be more prone to losing the puck when contact is made. The video showed a situation that shouldnt happen (using odd stick positions to become invincible every now and then).
I don't just counter everything just because. I do it because that's how I feel. This community doesn't do well with those that feel differently. If you don't agree, you either work for EA, are a fan boy, troll or any number of things. I'm as close to this series as anyone else here. I just have different opinions.
I don't see how a slight nudge is going to knock the puck loose from a pro player in this case. You are never invincible just by pulling the puck to your backhand/forehand. For this play in particular, look what's happening. I've already explained it so I won't do it again. I don't see how a nudge should make you lose the puck in this scenario. Again, even if they did, the defender is in a bad position to pick it up.
The defender is in a bad position to pick up the puck after the game negated his body check. In real life, that is a good hockey play for the defender. This game isn't tuned that way, it promotes goals as much as it can. If low speed hits want to be negated, then they have to add a mechanic to the physical side of the game. Say for example, if you use the RS to go for a hit, but hold the RS then it carries the player to the board where you can then initiate a board pin. In this game, you either check, or don't. It is ridiculous to have physical play that is either 100% or 0%. Physical play isn't only about hitting a player.
That is a fantastic idea. Something of a moving tie up - like they used to have in front of the net. Something where the player can't just continue past you, he has to spin off and go backwards away from your momentum, or he gets carried into the boards.
It is all about edge control. One of the best coaches(AA/AAA ‘90s) and skaters I’ve ever known, played for BU, was 5’6”. I was 6’2” 175..
..that dude could put me on my ****..
All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
[When you're a defenseman and your hits are nerfed so you do the next best thing]
Poking here would be a penalty, so that's ruled out. So would a reaching stick lift. Ruled out. Positioning and hitting is all I have left. I think my positioning is great, and you'd think that my back-skating crossover would give me enough momentum to separate the puck from a guy who isn't skating and is just holding the puck away with a slow speed, off-hand protect. However, attempting to hit here not only does absolutely nothing, but slows me down and doesn't slow the forward down any.
And some of you guys want to keep hits nerfed and slow the speed of the D.
[Socair - edited for profanity shorthand]
When I look at this snippet my main question is what is the build of the dman? From the skating it looks to be a PMD, say 5'9-10, maybe 190lbs...ish? The fwd is probably what....6'3 ish say 215-220 or so? No way to truly tell but I'd estimate it's close to that for both.
The dman was fine positionally until he decided to attempt to match speed and body the larger fwd.
1) His momentum was going too left to right to compensate for the speed coming at him. His angle was too flat when he decided to engage him.
2) Since he's stick checking I don't see what he's supposed to be shoving the fwd with to knock him off balance....his one left hand angled away from the fwd I guess? I don't see how it would be possible to knock someone off balance with one hand while you're turning with him as he skates past you. Would have to be one heck of a strong dude....no?
Perhaps if he wasn't stick checking the shove would have taken place in some instance or at least the animation would have kicked in.
3) If the d just maintained his gap and stick check as it was when they got to the blue line and kept him outside it likely would have turned out better, or at least more manageable.
At no time in that clip after entering the zone does he have any angle or momentum that would generate a proper hit neither. Maybe just before entering he did but after that he was just along for the ride.
No defensive strategy is 100% perfect, you have to play to your build's strengths and recognize when doing less is more effective. To me he just got over aggressive and got burnt. I don't think the 1.00 tuner would've changed the outcome here.
As a dman I'm all for nudges disrupting fwds but if the physics of it all in a given situation doesn't make sense then it shouldn't happen. Speed, angle, momentum, and strength should determine the severity.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
There's no immunity to putting the puck on your backhand. Look at the physics of this clip. The carrier is moving away from the defender. They are both moving very slow. There's very little opposing force here. Even if they were knocked off the puck, they'd probably get it back as it's on his backhand and chances are good it's going to be pushed away off his backhand, but still within reach of the carrier.
With all due respect. I was looking at the nhl 18 forum and i saw you in there arguing against what prople were saying about last years game. In my opinion i think you are too close to the franchise to objectively reply to what everyone is suggesting. It takes a lot of effort to keep replying to people while trying to counter arguments each year.
Anyway, if a real hockey player moves the puck to the same position, a slight nudge would likely cause him to lose the puck. Certain stick positions should be more prone to losing the puck when contact is made. The video showed a situation that shouldnt happen (using odd stick positions to become invincible every now and then).
I don't just counter everything just because. I do it because that's how I feel. This community doesn't do well with those that feel differently. If you don't agree, you either work for EA, are a fan boy, troll or any number of things. I'm as close to this series as anyone else here. I just have different opinions.
I don't see how a slight nudge is going to knock the puck loose from a pro player in this case. You are never invincible just by pulling the puck to your backhand/forehand. For this play in particular, look what's happening. I've already explained it so I won't do it again. I don't see how a nudge should make you lose the puck in this scenario. Again, even if they did, the defender is in a bad position to pick it up.
The defender is in a bad position to pick up the puck after the game negated his body check. In real life, that is a good hockey play for the defender. This game isn't tuned that way, it promotes goals as much as it can. If low speed hits want to be negated, then they have to add a mechanic to the physical side of the game. Say for example, if you use the RS to go for a hit, but hold the RS then it carries the player to the board where you can then initiate a board pin. In this game, you either check, or don't. It is ridiculous to have physical play that is either 100% or 0%. Physical play isn't only about hitting a player.
That is a fantastic idea. Something of a moving tie up - like they used to have in front of the net. Something where the player can't just continue past you, he has to spin off and go backwards away from your momentum, or he gets carried into the boards.
Yea I think the game is at the point that this needs to be added.
For the mechanics of it, I figured flicking the right stick to initiate a body check should be done when up close to a player instead of the heat seeking missile it is now.
If you hold the right stick, then it would not initiate a body check but rather, as you say, a moving tie-up to the boards.
Seems like it would work and be a fair mechanic for defense. Those players that always try to squeak along the boards would not squeak out with the puck every single time.
Also that clip demonstrates how putting the puck on your forehand or backhand will make you immune to most hits.
It only took EA 3+ months to do something about it. Why is the beta tuner only going to be temporary?
There's no immunity to putting the puck on your backhand. Look at the physics of this clip. The carrier is moving away from the defender. They are both moving very slow. There's very little opposing force here. Even if they were knocked off the puck, they'd probably get it back as it's on his backhand and chances are good it's going to be pushed away off his backhand, but still within reach of the carrier.
With all due respect. I was looking at the nhl 18 forum and i saw you in there arguing against what prople were saying about last years game. In my opinion i think you are too close to the franchise to objectively reply to what everyone is suggesting. It takes a lot of effort to keep replying to people while trying to counter arguments each year.
Anyway, if a real hockey player moves the puck to the same position, a slight nudge would likely cause him to lose the puck. Certain stick positions should be more prone to losing the puck when contact is made. The video showed a situation that shouldnt happen (using odd stick positions to become invincible every now and then).
I don't just counter everything just because. I do it because that's how I feel. This community doesn't do well with those that feel differently. If you don't agree, you either work for EA, are a fan boy, troll or any number of things. I'm as close to this series as anyone else here. I just have different opinions.
I don't see how a slight nudge is going to knock the puck loose from a pro player in this case. You are never invincible just by pulling the puck to your backhand/forehand. For this play in particular, look what's happening. I've already explained it so I won't do it again. I don't see how a nudge should make you lose the puck in this scenario. Again, even if they did, the defender is in a bad position to pick it up.
The defender is in a bad position to pick up the puck after the game negated his body check. In real life, that is a good hockey play for the defender. This game isn't tuned that way, it promotes goals as much as it can. If low speed hits want to be negated, then they have to add a mechanic to the physical side of the game. Say for example, if you use the RS to go for a hit, but hold the RS then it carries the player to the board where you can then initiate a board pin. In this game, you either check, or don't. It is ridiculous to have physical play that is either 100% or 0%. Physical play isn't only about hitting a player.
That is a fantastic idea. Something of a moving tie up - like they used to have in front of the net. Something where the player can't just continue past you, he has to spin off and go backwards away from your momentum, or he gets carried into the boards.
Yea I think the game is at the point that this needs to be added.
For the mechanics of it, I figured flicking the right stick to initiate a body check should be done when up close to a player instead of the heat seeking missile it is now.
If you hold the right stick, then it would not initiate a body check but rather, as you say, a moving tie-up to the boards.
Seems like it would work and be a fair mechanic for defense. Those players that always try to squeak along the boards would not squeak out with the puck every single time.
And EA can use the strength and balance attributes of the carrier vs the strength and checking attributes of the hitter in order to determine if the carrier is taken into the boards and pinned/checked or if he is able to continue skating forward (without being carried towards the boards). If the carrier "wins" that skill check, he still can't get passed the defender, he's still stuck to the outside, unless his attributes are just way over the defender's, in which he can push past the defender to the middle of the ice.
So for those attribute evaluation:
Defender > Carrier: taken to boards
Defender = Carrier: kept to the outside
Defender < Carrier: Carrier pushes into the ice
[When you're a defenseman and your hits are nerfed so you do the next best thing]
Poking here would be a penalty, so that's ruled out. So would a reaching stick lift. Ruled out. Positioning and hitting is all I have left. I think my positioning is great, and you'd think that my back-skating crossover would give me enough momentum to separate the puck from a guy who isn't skating and is just holding the puck away with a slow speed, off-hand protect. However, attempting to hit here not only does absolutely nothing, but slows me down and doesn't slow the forward down any.
And some of you guys want to keep hits nerfed and slow the speed of the D.
[Socair - edited for profanity shorthand]
When I look at this snippet my main question is what is the build of the dman? From the skating it looks to be a PMD, say 5'9-10, maybe 190lbs...ish? The fwd is probably what....6'3 ish say 215-220 or so? No way to truly tell but I'd estimate it's close to that for both.
The dman was fine positionally until he decided to attempt to match speed and body the larger fwd.
1) His momentum was going too left to right to compensate for the speed coming at him. His angle was too flat when he decided to engage him.
2) Since he's stick checking I don't see what he's supposed to be shoving the fwd with to knock him off balance....his one left hand angled away from the fwd I guess? I don't see how it would be possible to knock someone off balance with one hand while you're turning with him as he skates past you. Would have to be one heck of a strong dude....no?
Perhaps if he wasn't stick checking the shove would have taken place in some instance or at least the animation would have kicked in.
3) If the d just maintained his gap and stick check as it was when they got to the blue line and kept him outside it likely would have turned out better, or at least more manageable.
At no time in that clip after entering the zone does he have any angle or momentum that would generate a proper hit neither. Maybe just before entering he did but after that he was just along for the ride.
No defensive strategy is 100% perfect, you have to play to your build's strengths and recognize when doing less is more effective. To me he just got over aggressive and got burnt. I don't think the 1.00 tuner would've changed the outcome here.
As a dman I'm all for nudges disrupting fwds but if the physics of it all in a given situation doesn't make sense then it shouldn't happen. Speed, angle, momentum, and strength should determine the severity.
I don't even know why I keep trying to explain my reason for doing what I'm doing in the clip which highlights the disparity between forwards and defense at this stage of the game. My only fault in this clip is trying to play hockey as a defenseman would in real life, hoping for an outcome that would happen in real life, but getting an outcome due to the silly mechanics of the game. If this was 1.00 he would have lost the puck with not only incidental contact, but I purposely check here. There are tuners in place now that facilitate this very thing.
I'll get right to the point. This is a 3's game against three good players. I'm not chancing a poke here that would lead to a penalty. If the poke check wasn't such a toss up for penalties and and immensely slowing you down while poke checking and skating backwards, maybe I'd use the stick more, but as it stands, I rarely poke unless I'm 100% sure. People telling me to poke here have no situational awareness. This baffles me because for the longest time where I argued against so many tripping penalties, people were telling me not to poke and adjust. All of a sudden we're poke exerts now and know exactly when a poke is going to work.
I mentioned it earlier, but I guess I'll mention it again. Every D build come with a disadvantage. Either you're small, fast, and fragile or big, slow, and useless. When it comes to size in forwards builds, there is no disadvantage. You can be the size of Chara and byfuglien, while still maintaining the possessive stickhandling abilities of Crosby and McDavid, with the sniping ability of kuznetsov and Forsberg.
As for the clip, my reason for doing exactly what I'm going is because on the right hand side, it's basically a 2 v 1 with my center trying to skate back into the play. If I skate directly in front of the puck carrier, I risk him passing off to his D streaking in and I would be out of the play or the carrier deking towards the middle of the ice for a short side snapper. Both of those skaters are right handed coming down the right side. They are 100% going to go for the right side short snipe. I need to keep the puck out of the middle at all costs. Once the pass comes to the forward I know he's close enough to push towards the boards and my center is now in position to make a play at the D man if the pass goes to him. When the forward stops skating and starts gliding, I know I can now crossover and match his speed. Like a defenseman should, I turn at the opportune moment he becomes parallel to me so he doesn't skate right by me (If he's moving his feet and skating I would turn EARLIER to match his speed), and even better, he's close enough for me to put some kind of body on him, he's not moving his feet, and he is protecting the puck on the offhand. I don't care if you play beer league, NHL, etc.. if you are not protecting the puck on your stronghand side, but doing it on your offhand, and you get bodied, you're going to get disrupted somehow. The point here is that absolutely NOTHING happens. I might as well have not even been there. I get slowed down to a halt on contact and he keeps gliding and maintaining speed.
Given the situation as a whole, taking in account of everything that's happening on the ice, and not just a small bit of the picture you coaches keep trying to coach me on, this was the play to make. It would have succeeded defensively in 1.00.
I would find it hard to believe that anybody who watched that checking scenario seen outdoors and thought “that was a realistic outcome” has played real hockey at a competitive level. That scenario would’ve played out exactly how wain stated it. Defensemen would’ve rode that forward into the boards had the forward not changed course, regardless of his size. Now, you could argue that his size difference could’ve resulted in him somewhat escaping the board-pin by performing an escape move towards the blueline, that would be totally realistic to me, but to watch him skate literally next to the dman because the animation was “absorbed” for a lack of a better term is simply unrealistic.
I completely agree that hitting needs to take another step. We need jostling (2k10 had this) and we need impacts that are between 0-100. The all or nothing hitting combined with the nerf of the effectiveness of the 100% hitting makes for a very unrealistic hockey experience.
Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.
1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).
2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.
3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.
Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.
Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.
1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).
2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.
3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.
Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.
Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?
The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.
This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.
Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.
1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).
2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.
3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.
Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.
Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?
The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.
This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.
You need to give up on this silly argument, it was the BETA, by definition it was an unfinished product released to the wild for the purpose gathering data and further tuning. That's what a beta is, if you didn't know it's not EA's problem.
Read the what's going on thread again and try to pay attention to what the dev says, its explicitly stated that they knew checking was overpowered and they expected to have to tune it down.
Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.
1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).
2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.
3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.
Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.
Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?
The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.
This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.
You need to give up on this silly argument, it was the BETA, by definition it was an unfinished product released to the wild for the purpose gathering data and further tuning. That's what a beta is, if you didn't know it's not EA's problem.
Read the what's going on thread again and try to pay attention to what the dev says, its explicitly stated that they knew checking was overpowered and they expected to have to tune it down.
Okay, then let’s say day 1. What’s the excuse then?
The only silly arguments are those in favor of the same ol puck raggin, hit shruggin, and glitch shootin. You already have that with 18. Just pop that in if that’s what you want. 19 was good because it was different, and resulted in more realistic flow and play overall. That’s why many of us bought it, including after playing on early access. Ain’t nothing silly about that.
the hitting as it is now is great... please don`t cause easier hits like nhl 19 beta as the hits in 19 beta are horrid... Please get rid of the short side shot glitch, its used in CS way to much GET RID OF IT PLEASE .
The game is basically perfect just need to keep it the way it is, but get rid of Short side shot glitch on the faceoff circle paint.
Replies
In my opinion, it's not even a slight nudge. If this works the way they should, my gaining speed from backwards crossovers pivoting right into a hit would have creamed a player who is off hand twisted like that player is.
Strides and momentum. How do they work.
It only looks like a nudge because the moving player somehow absorbs my speed. Looks like I'm hitting an immovable pillow.
Btw: I play mostly forward now but this sort of thing works at both ends of the ice.
Ps: totally going to have to agree to disagree regarding the definition of puck possession and Crosby. I think a highlight reel of a young Gretzky, young Lemieux..not many others ..would have served your point better.
Actually they are going back because the overwhelming majority of people disagree with your sentiment here.
In real life, size isn't nearly as important as in this game. Tom Wilson and Brad Marchand are both headhunters. Wilson is 6'4". Marchand is 5'9". Both hit hard and can knock people off the puck in real life - but not in this game.
In real life, the big player has more strength, but the smaller player has better natural leverage. This is why small players can hit. This game does not respect that. You don't have to be huge to knock someone over.
That is a fantastic idea. Something of a moving tie up - like they used to have in front of the net. Something where the player can't just continue past you, he has to spin off and go backwards away from your momentum, or he gets carried into the boards.
..that dude could put me on my ****..
Around Jan 7 or something like that.
When I look at this snippet my main question is what is the build of the dman? From the skating it looks to be a PMD, say 5'9-10, maybe 190lbs...ish? The fwd is probably what....6'3 ish say 215-220 or so? No way to truly tell but I'd estimate it's close to that for both.
The dman was fine positionally until he decided to attempt to match speed and body the larger fwd.
1) His momentum was going too left to right to compensate for the speed coming at him. His angle was too flat when he decided to engage him.
2) Since he's stick checking I don't see what he's supposed to be shoving the fwd with to knock him off balance....his one left hand angled away from the fwd I guess? I don't see how it would be possible to knock someone off balance with one hand while you're turning with him as he skates past you. Would have to be one heck of a strong dude....no?
Perhaps if he wasn't stick checking the shove would have taken place in some instance or at least the animation would have kicked in.
3) If the d just maintained his gap and stick check as it was when they got to the blue line and kept him outside it likely would have turned out better, or at least more manageable.
At no time in that clip after entering the zone does he have any angle or momentum that would generate a proper hit neither. Maybe just before entering he did but after that he was just along for the ride.
No defensive strategy is 100% perfect, you have to play to your build's strengths and recognize when doing less is more effective. To me he just got over aggressive and got burnt. I don't think the 1.00 tuner would've changed the outcome here.
As a dman I'm all for nudges disrupting fwds but if the physics of it all in a given situation doesn't make sense then it shouldn't happen. Speed, angle, momentum, and strength should determine the severity.
Yea I think the game is at the point that this needs to be added.
For the mechanics of it, I figured flicking the right stick to initiate a body check should be done when up close to a player instead of the heat seeking missile it is now.
If you hold the right stick, then it would not initiate a body check but rather, as you say, a moving tie-up to the boards.
Seems like it would work and be a fair mechanic for defense. Those players that always try to squeak along the boards would not squeak out with the puck every single time.
And EA can use the strength and balance attributes of the carrier vs the strength and checking attributes of the hitter in order to determine if the carrier is taken into the boards and pinned/checked or if he is able to continue skating forward (without being carried towards the boards). If the carrier "wins" that skill check, he still can't get passed the defender, he's still stuck to the outside, unless his attributes are just way over the defender's, in which he can push past the defender to the middle of the ice.
So for those attribute evaluation:
Defender > Carrier: taken to boards
Defender = Carrier: kept to the outside
Defender < Carrier: Carrier pushes into the ice
I don't even know why I keep trying to explain my reason for doing what I'm doing in the clip which highlights the disparity between forwards and defense at this stage of the game. My only fault in this clip is trying to play hockey as a defenseman would in real life, hoping for an outcome that would happen in real life, but getting an outcome due to the silly mechanics of the game. If this was 1.00 he would have lost the puck with not only incidental contact, but I purposely check here. There are tuners in place now that facilitate this very thing.
I'll get right to the point. This is a 3's game against three good players. I'm not chancing a poke here that would lead to a penalty. If the poke check wasn't such a toss up for penalties and and immensely slowing you down while poke checking and skating backwards, maybe I'd use the stick more, but as it stands, I rarely poke unless I'm 100% sure. People telling me to poke here have no situational awareness. This baffles me because for the longest time where I argued against so many tripping penalties, people were telling me not to poke and adjust. All of a sudden we're poke exerts now and know exactly when a poke is going to work.
I mentioned it earlier, but I guess I'll mention it again. Every D build come with a disadvantage. Either you're small, fast, and fragile or big, slow, and useless. When it comes to size in forwards builds, there is no disadvantage. You can be the size of Chara and byfuglien, while still maintaining the possessive stickhandling abilities of Crosby and McDavid, with the sniping ability of kuznetsov and Forsberg.
As for the clip, my reason for doing exactly what I'm going is because on the right hand side, it's basically a 2 v 1 with my center trying to skate back into the play. If I skate directly in front of the puck carrier, I risk him passing off to his D streaking in and I would be out of the play or the carrier deking towards the middle of the ice for a short side snapper. Both of those skaters are right handed coming down the right side. They are 100% going to go for the right side short snipe. I need to keep the puck out of the middle at all costs. Once the pass comes to the forward I know he's close enough to push towards the boards and my center is now in position to make a play at the D man if the pass goes to him. When the forward stops skating and starts gliding, I know I can now crossover and match his speed. Like a defenseman should, I turn at the opportune moment he becomes parallel to me so he doesn't skate right by me (If he's moving his feet and skating I would turn EARLIER to match his speed), and even better, he's close enough for me to put some kind of body on him, he's not moving his feet, and he is protecting the puck on the offhand. I don't care if you play beer league, NHL, etc.. if you are not protecting the puck on your stronghand side, but doing it on your offhand, and you get bodied, you're going to get disrupted somehow. The point here is that absolutely NOTHING happens. I might as well have not even been there. I get slowed down to a halt on contact and he keeps gliding and maintaining speed.
Given the situation as a whole, taking in account of everything that's happening on the ice, and not just a small bit of the picture you coaches keep trying to coach me on, this was the play to make. It would have succeeded defensively in 1.00.
I completely agree that hitting needs to take another step. We need jostling (2k10 had this) and we need impacts that are between 0-100. The all or nothing hitting combined with the nerf of the effectiveness of the 100% hitting makes for a very unrealistic hockey experience.
Here's an example of a bad hit attempt and recovery. I'm RD. Initially I was going to step up on their lw but the angle was wrong so I had to adjust. He manages to just barely get past and get a few steps on me.
1) My momentum from trying to correct my angle took me along with the lw, so I wouldn't expect my def to nudge or push off (and he doesn't).
2) Instead of panicking and chasing him down directly (poke checking all the way for ex.), I took a more angled chase towards the net taking away any sort of cut to the net he might do.
3) Letting him have the outside, I made sure my angle gave me a safe distance to complete my recovery and allow my teammates to backcheck correctly and get into position.
Sometimes you just have to work with what you have and adjust. I personally don't care for the tuner rollback. I have no fond memories of any tuner really. I play the same way regardless.
Also NHL 19 1.03 vs NHL 19 Beta - but I probably just suck at the game, ya know.
Checking is more logical than it currently is.
Everything feels crisp and fluid. Skating appears much more responsive than now. Stop and go looks explosive. Better server connection? It's possible.
Goalies seem less choppy, more fluid and more responsive.
Nudges from behind are not over powered. There is a great example at exactly 14:16 where a nudge from behind yielded no result.
Curling your stick is more realistic and is not op as it currently is.
Moving the puck around is a more viable option than hogging the puck, unlike now.
Except those of us who chose to buy the game after liking the beta mechanics deserve the game we bought. We bought a product that existed, it was dramatically altered, and we are the ones who are supposed to adjust?
The people who bought the game then complained about it being what was represented should adjust.
This argument is crazy to me. If you went to the store and bought a refrigerator and they delivered a freezer, would you be happy when they told you to just adjust? I think not.
You need to give up on this silly argument, it was the BETA, by definition it was an unfinished product released to the wild for the purpose gathering data and further tuning. That's what a beta is, if you didn't know it's not EA's problem.
Read the what's going on thread again and try to pay attention to what the dev says, its explicitly stated that they knew checking was overpowered and they expected to have to tune it down.
Okay, then let’s say day 1. What’s the excuse then?
The only silly arguments are those in favor of the same ol puck raggin, hit shruggin, and glitch shootin. You already have that with 18. Just pop that in if that’s what you want. 19 was good because it was different, and resulted in more realistic flow and play overall. That’s why many of us bought it, including after playing on early access. Ain’t nothing silly about that.
The game is basically perfect just need to keep it the way it is, but get rid of Short side shot glitch on the faceoff circle paint.