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NHL 20 Content Update October 25th


Check out our CHEL notes with our October Patch update here.

An Update on Gameplay Feedback + Action Plan

Replies

  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »

    Why is it that when a defenseman is skating or turned at a poor angle a pass from the opposing team will just go right by him instead of him deflecting it away?

    I agree that gliding and proper facing should be key for interceptions, but I think it would be great from a gameplay and realism standpoint to introduce pass break-ups in addition to interceptions.

    This would discourage forwards from forcing passes through defenders, and would reward defenders for being in the right place, but would keep the interception as a reward only for defenseman playing the pass perfectly?
    Pass deflections are in there. However, it came as a request came from the community to not have 'auto pokes', as some were calling them, impact them in a negative way. So you are only going to see them play if it won't impact your skating request or you are already in a glide or standing still so that players don't feel they negatively impact where they were trying to skate to.

    Players could also do more manually, poking the puck themselves or dropping to a pass block.

    This is confusing to me though. In 1.00 you could intercept most passes even while skating.

    In 1.03 (and in prior games) if you were skating you'd miss the pick.

    Why not just have a pass break up (like deflecting it high or away) when you're skating? I find it impossible to believe defensemen would tell y'all they prefer to have a pass go right through them as opposed to breaking it up.

    I can see defenseman complaining that we'd rather pick off a pass than deflect it, but as it is now we get neither. We have to be gliding and in perfect position, which is fine on the cycle, but when trying to defend on the rush it's nearly impossible to break up or pick off that forced pass. It's far too easy for forwards to force a pass through defensemen now.

    As I said, it was great in 1.00. It was nearly impossible to force a pass through a defender, though the defender picked off some crazy stuff. Can we not get more pass break ups? I never see them happen.

    I can only imagine people complaining about "auto pokes" if they miss and leave them open. A 100% (or even 95%) deflection rate for properly positioned defensemen likely wouldn't trigger that complaint.

    You are making too much sense with each post here, dude. :smiley: Are you an Xbox or PS4 player?

    Lol thanks. Xbox

    I would reinstall to play D with you. There's an almost science and methodology that comes with the position I think you seem to understand that a good majority of players don't get.

    LawfulRingedGalapagospenguin-size_restricted.gif

    I don't usually play drop-in or Club, but if you do reinstall for yourself, hit me up. My gamertag is GOW LIKE A BOSS
  • ExSnake01
    454 posts Member
    edited January 7
    Call me negative but there are some problems I have with the devs approach changing this game. It still feels like a big disconnect with what most people want and a certain, small group wants. I think it's a big mistake to use top players as some benchmark or guidance with how the game should be played. These guys will always stay at the top because they are good at identifying what works and what doesn't. When a new nhl game is released, they identify those elements and adjust their gameplay style to fit the current game. This is why they win most of their games. They adapt quickly. I also think it's a mistake for a dev to measure how good the game is based on how successful he is in lets say online versus mode. How does winning games equate to the quality of the game itself?

    There was so much optimism when the beta came out. Almost every thread in various social networks approved this game from a gameplay perspective. Just go back a few months and check it out. Even youtube videos were excited for the game.

    Stick lifts became a defensive tool again. It was being spammed a lot, it's true. So instead of SLIGHTLY toning down the effectiveness of it, it took a complete flip and became a penalty button. Nice going EA. That's not what people wanted.

    A large number of people complained about the trips. It was a warranted complaint. I was actually fine with it because it fixed the spamming problem from 18. It was a little over the top sensitive but I think it was a working system. But now, I think the trips have become inconsistent. Sometimes you poke into their skates or legs and nothing happens, other times it's a penalty. This is what I'm seeing in versus. I'm literally scared to even touch that button because I cannot figure out when it's a good or bad time to poke. I only use it when I try defending skating backwards facing the opponent. At any other angles, I don't even touch it.

    And the last one was the speed of skating. People were saying everyone skated like Mcdavid. So EA changed it where I think it's now similar to 18, a slow and sluggish pace.

    These were the problems people had with 19. EA was VERY close to a well balanced hockey game but I think they made changes to the extreme that many didn't want. Similar to someone asking for more cheese on a pizza, so the cook decided to add 5lbs and ruined it altogether.

    I hope this reverted tuner brings it back close to what it was in the beta but I anticipate to be disappointed once again. Simply because I think the changes made were much more than just a few tuners. I hope I'm wrong and we get back the good hockey game we bought from September.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, when you reach out to LG, are you talking to leadership (BMCDONALD, etc.), are you talking to top scoring NHL players, are you talking to random AHL players, are you talking to managers, or are you talking to all of those groups directly?

    From my (admittedly long-past but extensive experience there) those different groups will have radically different opinions on the gameplay. LG was never a monolith of opinion, regardless of the outward appearance given by leadership. They always like to "present a united front" so to speak, but opinions amongst their membership were never unanimous.
    Through social media, everyone has a voice so if people want to be heard, it usually runs past my eyes. Certain things gain consensus as that is just the nature of social networks so some issues rise up higher than others but as we have discussions like this, as you have seen, sometimes players start out aligned with the general though that things need to change only to realize they are asking for completely opposite things when you get into the details.

    I can then have conversations on places like these boards or take things I am seeing to groups like LG Leadership or the Gamechangers asking them about what they are hearing in their circles for more perspective. Since I have also formulated my own views from what I have seen from the communities feedback and what I have seen myself through playing, we can challenge each other in those conversations, give examples, and run through hypothetical scenarios of what impact certain changes would have on the game.

    Sometimes we talk about something and let it sit for a while and then revisit it after players have played more games. Some things die down and others build to be more prevalent issues. All part of making games.

    I have to say good job in general man. For the feedback and the passion, it's appreciated.
  • Juice1122334455
    15 posts Member
    edited January 7
    You need multiple tuners @NHLDEV. You’re going to tick off 50% of the community and that’ll be the final nail in the NHL coffin.



  • ====
    Edit: Nevermind, I'm wrong lol. My pass interception slider is on 80 offline for both CPU and Human. I thought 80 was standard, but I checked and default was 50. That's why it's so much easier to intercept on defense for me offline 🤗

    I think 80 is a bit much, but any chance of getting the online interceptions slider bumped up a bit in Tuner 1.04? It sure is a lot harder to force passes with the slider cranked up lol

    All good. Thanks for the follow up as it definitely makes more sense now.

    Increasing interceptions hasn't been something we have been looking at thus far as it hasn't really been a topic in the community. We did take time to fine tune it before we released the Beta so they did get a pretty good isolated look. There will always be subjectivity with tuning though. Here was a play from the
    other night where the pass was too quick for Backstrom to stop. This is the sort of thing we take into account when tuning mechanics.



    We can assume it is a combination of the speed of the puck and that it was to his backhand side as to why it got through and those types of conditions are what play into our interception model and also get weighted by each individual players attributes.

    Niskanen was also limited by the low relative speed hitting change form behind that the NHL made thus nerfing his defensive ability against Radulov who just glided around with the puck on his backhand ;)
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    ====
    Edit: Nevermind, I'm wrong lol. My pass interception slider is on 80 offline for both CPU and Human. I thought 80 was standard, but I checked and default was 50. That's why it's so much easier to intercept on defense for me offline 🤗

    I think 80 is a bit much, but any chance of getting the online interceptions slider bumped up a bit in Tuner 1.04? It sure is a lot harder to force passes with the slider cranked up lol

    All good. Thanks for the follow up as it definitely makes more sense now.

    Increasing interceptions hasn't been something we have been looking at thus far as it hasn't really been a topic in the community. We did take time to fine tune it before we released the Beta so they did get a pretty good isolated look. There will always be subjectivity with tuning though. Here was a play from the
    other night where the pass was too quick for Backstrom to stop. This is the sort of thing we take into account when tuning mechanics.



    We can assume it is a combination of the speed of the puck and that it was to his backhand side as to why it got through and those types of conditions are what play into our interception model and also get weighted by each individual players attributes.

    Niskanen was also limited by the low relative speed hitting change form behind that the NHL made thus nerfing his defensive ability against Radulov who just glided around with the puck on his backhand ;)

    To be fair, those still get through once in a blue moon with the pass interceptions set at 80 soooo 😁
  • TheMajjam wrote: »
    Welp, after hearing a dev say there's nothing wrong with the defensive tools, tuning, etc, it seems that those of us complaining about defense have no clue what we're talking about or complaining about. In essence, if a forward scores on a defensive player deemed as good, he clearly deserves it and the game is good and balanced. Apparently, It was always that defensive players were getting bailed out for making bad decisions. I've played with the top tier on LGHL and I guess those of us that play D on that league are, quite frankly, delusional for thinking the defense sucks. A lot of us take what we are given, play, and succeed anyway. Myself included. However, just because someone can be good at D and adapts to how the game plays, doesn't make it right and doesn't make it fun. This one is the last straw for me. Done.

    You kinda missed the point of what the @nhldev was saying but he is right, there is nothing wrong with the tools. They actually do work just fine when used correctly and your positioning is sound. No amount of tools will ever be 100% perfect of course but by no means are dmen outgunned or out classed. A dman can play a situation seemingly perfect and still get beat. It happens in real life all the time too. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me who has ever played every game in every situation perfectly defensively. You can either complain about it or learn from it. I personally choose to learn what I could have adjusted better or played differently.

    It goes both ways too. There are times when the D shouldn't be able to make a play at all and still does somehow, for example a pokecheck dead stop blocking a slapshot from the the point or intercepting a pass not even facing the play. It happens. Defense doesn't get as much shine and praise as offense does in this game but by no means are dmen helpless.

    There are technical things I wish we had more control over like clipping, sticks through legs / pucks / boards etc. but stuff like that will never be perfect. It's a programmed game after all.

    The bolded part makes zero sense to me. I'm not sure what fun you think you're not having but I have plenty when I manage to make a solid play after I get beat, get a takeaway, or make a good read to stop the other team. I'm by no means gods gift to defense, I have my faults, but I won't blame the game for what I do with the tools given, working as I'd prefer them to or not. To each his own though.

    Below are some examples of what I try to do in games. It doesn't always work out as you may intend, but it's nice when it does.

    Sweeping poke
    3X9XdwQ.gif

    Well timed targeted poke
    j7uokxM.gif

    Maintain gap with targeted poke
    x6iKmtE.gif

    Fake inside to outside check
    dTFTc08.gif

    BlahQz - Owner of WikkiD VI / D6 NatioN - Our EASHL games are available here on YouTube and Twitch!
  • BlahQGhozT wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Welp, after hearing a dev say there's nothing wrong with the defensive tools, tuning, etc, it seems that those of us complaining about defense have no clue what we're talking about or complaining about. In essence, if a forward scores on a defensive player deemed as good, he clearly deserves it and the game is good and balanced. Apparently, It was always that defensive players were getting bailed out for making bad decisions. I've played with the top tier on LGHL and I guess those of us that play D on that league are, quite frankly, delusional for thinking the defense sucks. A lot of us take what we are given, play, and succeed anyway. Myself included. However, just because someone can be good at D and adapts to how the game plays, doesn't make it right and doesn't make it fun. This one is the last straw for me. Done.

    You kinda missed the point of what the @nhldev was saying but he is right, there is nothing wrong with the tools. They actually do work just fine when used correctly and your positioning is sound. No amount of tools will ever be 100% perfect of course but by no means are dmen outgunned or out classed. A dman can play a situation seemingly perfect and still get beat. It happens in real life all the time too. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me who has ever played every game in every situation perfectly defensively. You can either complain about it or learn from it. I personally choose to learn what I could have adjusted better or played differently.

    It goes both ways too. There are times when the D shouldn't be able to make a play at all and still does somehow, for example a pokecheck dead stop blocking a slapshot from the the point or intercepting a pass not even facing the play. It happens. Defense doesn't get as much shine and praise as offense does in this game but by no means are dmen helpless.

    There are technical things I wish we had more control over like clipping, sticks through legs / pucks / boards etc. but stuff like that will never be perfect. It's a programmed game after all.

    The bolded part makes zero sense to me. I'm not sure what fun you think you're not having but I have plenty when I manage to make a solid play after I get beat, get a takeaway, or make a good read to stop the other team. I'm by no means gods gift to defense, I have my faults, but I won't blame the game for what I do with the tools given, working as I'd prefer them to or not. To each his own though.

    Below are some examples of what I try to do in games. It doesn't always work out as you may intend, but it's nice when it does.

    Sweeping poke
    3X9XdwQ.gif

    Well timed targeted poke
    j7uokxM.gif

    Maintain gap with targeted poke
    x6iKmtE.gif

    Fake inside to outside check
    dTFTc08.gif


    Beautiful. A guy who understands positioning, relative speed, stick placement and when the proper opportunity presents itself for a clean hit, he makes it.

    Can’t wrap my brain around how so many guys can’t make this simple adjustment and rather it’s the games fault they get beat consistently. This game is better than EVER in terms of your ability to play Defense, but some guys want that hit EVERYTIME And want that puck EVERYTIME he breathes on a guy

    Thank for posting these, a lot of these dudes need to work on how they play and understand defense.



  • RSall14
    515 posts Member
    edited January 7
    NHLDev wrote: »
    ====
    Edit: Nevermind, I'm wrong lol. My pass interception slider is on 80 offline for both CPU and Human. I thought 80 was standard, but I checked and default was 50. That's why it's so much easier to intercept on defense for me offline 🤗

    I think 80 is a bit much, but any chance of getting the online interceptions slider bumped up a bit in Tuner 1.04? It sure is a lot harder to force passes with the slider cranked up lol

    All good. Thanks for the follow up as it definitely makes more sense now.

    Increasing interceptions hasn't been something we have been looking at thus far as it hasn't really been a topic in the community. We did take time to fine tune it before we released the Beta so they did get a pretty good isolated look. There will always be subjectivity with tuning though. Here was a play from the
    other night where the pass was too quick for Backstrom to stop. This is the sort of thing we take into account when tuning mechanics.



    We can assume it is a combination of the speed of the puck and that it was to his backhand side as to why it got through and those types of conditions are what play into our interception model and also get weighted by each individual players attributes.

    Niskanen was also limited by the low relative speed hitting change form behind that the NHL made thus nerfing his defensive ability against Radulov who just glided around with the puck on his backhand ;)

    Backstrom would have picked it up if he held vision control and wasn't facing his goalie ;)
    I'm glad he wasn't though.
  • BlahQGhozT wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Welp, after hearing a dev say there's nothing wrong with the defensive tools, tuning, etc, it seems that those of us complaining about defense have no clue what we're talking about or complaining about. In essence, if a forward scores on a defensive player deemed as good, he clearly deserves it and the game is good and balanced. Apparently, It was always that defensive players were getting bailed out for making bad decisions. I've played with the top tier on LGHL and I guess those of us that play D on that league are, quite frankly, delusional for thinking the defense sucks. A lot of us take what we are given, play, and succeed anyway. Myself included. However, just because someone can be good at D and adapts to how the game plays, doesn't make it right and doesn't make it fun. This one is the last straw for me. Done.

    You kinda missed the point of what the @nhldev was saying but he is right, there is nothing wrong with the tools. They actually do work just fine when used correctly and your positioning is sound. No amount of tools will ever be 100% perfect of course but by no means are dmen outgunned or out classed. A dman can play a situation seemingly perfect and still get beat. It happens in real life all the time too. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me who has ever played every game in every situation perfectly defensively. You can either complain about it or learn from it. I personally choose to learn what I could have adjusted better or played differently.

    It goes both ways too. There are times when the D shouldn't be able to make a play at all and still does somehow, for example a pokecheck dead stop blocking a slapshot from the the point or intercepting a pass not even facing the play. It happens. Defense doesn't get as much shine and praise as offense does in this game but by no means are dmen helpless.

    There are technical things I wish we had more control over like clipping, sticks through legs / pucks / boards etc. but stuff like that will never be perfect. It's a programmed game after all.

    The bolded part makes zero sense to me. I'm not sure what fun you think you're not having but I have plenty when I manage to make a solid play after I get beat, get a takeaway, or make a good read to stop the other team. I'm by no means gods gift to defense, I have my faults, but I won't blame the game for what I do with the tools given, working as I'd prefer them to or not. To each his own though.

    Below are some examples of what I try to do in games. It doesn't always work out as you may intend, but it's nice when it does.

    Sweeping poke
    3X9XdwQ.gif

    Well timed targeted poke
    j7uokxM.gif

    Maintain gap with targeted poke
    x6iKmtE.gif

    Fake inside to outside check
    dTFTc08.gif

    I notice stick lifting didn't make the video list 🙄
  • BlahQGhozT wrote: »
    TheMajjam wrote: »
    Welp, after hearing a dev say there's nothing wrong with the defensive tools, tuning, etc, it seems that those of us complaining about defense have no clue what we're talking about or complaining about. In essence, if a forward scores on a defensive player deemed as good, he clearly deserves it and the game is good and balanced. Apparently, It was always that defensive players were getting bailed out for making bad decisions. I've played with the top tier on LGHL and I guess those of us that play D on that league are, quite frankly, delusional for thinking the defense sucks. A lot of us take what we are given, play, and succeed anyway. Myself included. However, just because someone can be good at D and adapts to how the game plays, doesn't make it right and doesn't make it fun. This one is the last straw for me. Done.

    You kinda missed the point of what the @nhldev was saying but he is right, there is nothing wrong with the tools. They actually do work just fine when used correctly and your positioning is sound. No amount of tools will ever be 100% perfect of course but by no means are dmen outgunned or out classed. A dman can play a situation seemingly perfect and still get beat. It happens in real life all the time too. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me who has ever played every game in every situation perfectly defensively. You can either complain about it or learn from it. I personally choose to learn what I could have adjusted better or played differently.

    It goes both ways too. There are times when the D shouldn't be able to make a play at all and still does somehow, for example a pokecheck dead stop blocking a slapshot from the the point or intercepting a pass not even facing the play. It happens. Defense doesn't get as much shine and praise as offense does in this game but by no means are dmen helpless.

    There are technical things I wish we had more control over like clipping, sticks through legs / pucks / boards etc. but stuff like that will never be perfect. It's a programmed game after all.

    The bolded part makes zero sense to me. I'm not sure what fun you think you're not having but I have plenty when I manage to make a solid play after I get beat, get a takeaway, or make a good read to stop the other team. I'm by no means gods gift to defense, I have my faults, but I won't blame the game for what I do with the tools given, working as I'd prefer them to or not. To each his own though.

    Below are some examples of what I try to do in games. It doesn't always work out as you may intend, but it's nice when it does.

    Sweeping poke
    3X9XdwQ.gif

    Well timed targeted poke
    j7uokxM.gif

    Maintain gap with targeted poke
    x6iKmtE.gif

    Fake inside to outside check
    dTFTc08.gif

    I understand what you're trying to say, but it can be better. Much better. It fact, it was better before the current tuner in my opinion. Other than poke trips, the game flowed very well. Especially for D-men. Hits and incidental contact actually looked exactly what was promised in the developer video with PK Subban.

    Appreciate the gifs too, but I think I can also play great defense against a centerman who, play after play, doesn't move the puck and literally skates in a predictable straight line. With no offense to your skills, there are much better players out there can that exploit the mechanics and movements a lot better than that dude that kept trying the same thing over and over again.

    ;)
  • ExSnake01
    454 posts Member
    edited January 7
    Sure, EASHL can be fun. After waiting for someone to take their 10 min smoke break. Or bathroom break. Or phone call. Or spending 30 mins trying to find a match. Or after scoring a few goals get to watch half the team quit. Then you look at the clock and find out two hours has gone by and you played only two games.
  • Your all missing the point. If that video clip @NHLDev posted, happened in game, the poke which glanced inconsequetially off of the shin in all likelihood would have cut that guy down in spectacular fashion. Like 8/10 soccer player~esque spiraling mess.

    Btw. I can time pokes all day because my pings in the 9 to 11ish range. Got into a game today where it hit the 50’s...spent a lot of time in the box that game... also, just to confirm..I’ve never argued about the success rates of pokes. Always thought they were fine. It’s the misses which result in too many game altering penalties when they are really little more than normal incidental contact. Also, again with how obscenely light today’s sticks are. There’s just no way you can argue with a straight face that the effects of the stick on body(etc) make sense.

    Umm. For lack of a better turn of phrase...
    ..rubbins racing..

    That said... I personally don’t like running around with dss engaged. I’ve deceloped a quick more ending with an R3 click to address that but sometimes it doesn’t all register inevitably resulting in a penalty. To me more manual control all around would be better however maybe the X or B buttons could be better utilized now that things like the elite controller exist. While reworking the button system is deep into crazy town and a deviation from most of the sentiments here it might be something to consider in light of being able to better control the toon in the future.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Also!
    In the video clip, if you look closely the player isn’t coasting, as he rounds the net, his right leg is in fact, cutting several small C’s effectively torquing him away from the defender. Without doing that the defender stands a good chance of getting enough body position to disrupt the wrap around...might not have prevented it but would have increased his chances dramatically.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • ExSnake01
    454 posts Member
    edited January 7

    I notice stick lifting didn't make the video list 🙄

    Well, in EA's defense they do work but they are extremely risky to use. Only good time to really use it is if you can cause a turnover and get a great scoring chance otherwise forget about it.

    @BlahQGhozT That's nice you've shown the clips but for what point exactly? I'm not sure if anybody is claiming that they can't hit or poke check. The issue is the consistency or I mean inconsistency for the hitting/poking mechanics. Both can still be done and I do them myself plenty of times, but there are some major problems with it. Top players are doing certain exploits where it makes it very difficult for you to poke check or body check. Things like them dragging the puck back and waiting for you to poke so they get tripped. A very common tactic. Or they put it on the backhand and will glide making circles while you try to hit them. It's been discussed to death. I'd look those up if you don't know what I'm talking about. And they've shown up after the tuners/updates.
  • Your all missing the point. If that video clip @NHLDev posted, happened in game, the poke which glanced inconsequetially off of the shin in all likelihood would have cut that guy down in spectacular fashion. Like 8/10 soccer player~esque spiraling mess.

    You ever see the plays where two or three of your guys stand there while watching the puck slide by for a one timer?

    I've done plays like that Dallas clip where you circle the net and go for the one-t. Years ago, people were calling it the "cross crease" glitch goal even though it was a legit hockey play.
  • When will lower rated cards stop being better then the jighend cards? Can you make the abilities the cards have be accurate ? If they arent no point to building a good team. I have 4 or five players with 99 acceleration and speed but with full energy get beat in foot races buy low rated players example my 91 thanksgiving Patrick Kane loses footraces to Dustin Bufflen rare gold card rated 84. Everytime i face a team with lower rated players at some point their players out perform mine.
  • Other thing is my line changes are on Auto but will not change until nearly no energy left even during play stoppages. I dont pay to be cheated out of games due to unfair advantages
  • Also i cant do a buy now in the auctions gives me an error and sends me to the main menu after i press ok. Is there a fix ?
  • ExSnake01 wrote: »
    Your all missing the point. If that video clip @NHLDev posted, happened in game, the poke which glanced inconsequetially off of the shin in all likelihood would have cut that guy down in spectacular fashion. Like 8/10 soccer player~esque spiraling mess.

    You ever see the plays where two or three of your guys stand there while watching the puck slide by for a one timer?

    I've done plays like that Dallas clip where you circle the net and go for the one-t. Years ago, people were calling it the "cross crease" glitch goal even though it was a legit hockey play.

    Hah. Wow. Yeah there or things which should legit be very hard to do. People seem to not notice that a big part of hockey is getting things to shift around and learning to occupy the space in between. Momentum shifts like that make some people’s heads explode. To me that’s the fun stuff. Pulling things toward you and then spring something like that...it’s the fun!
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
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