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Gameplay Updates Based on Beta Tuner Rollback Feedback

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  • KidShowtime1867
    1574 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    This tuner is definitely on par with the beta and includes much needed fixes.

    Those claiming that this isn't the tuner we just played are the same users who claimed that the 'beta tuner' wasn't 'actually the beta tuner'. Which is exactly how I said this would go down for some people: They'd get the new tuner, take a few spankings online and then come back to here to claim nothing changed or it changed for the worse.

    Full disclosure: Prior to these tuners, I was ranked 450 in OVP. I am now ranked 1,900.

    I have taken some serious whoopings - but they aren't so bad. A few of the 'always' goals we see - but for the most part I'm having a terrible time with turnovers. My passing game is atrocious after these tuners.
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    This tuner is definitely on par with the beta and includes much needed fixes.

    Those claiming that this isn't the tuner we just played are the same users who claimed that the 'beta tuner' wasn't 'actually the beta tuner'. Which is exactly how I said this would go down for some people: They'd get the new tuner, take a few spankings online and then come back to here to claim nothing changed or it changed for the worse.

    Full disclosure: Prior to these tuners, I was ranked 450 in OVP. I am now ranked 1,900.

    I have taken some serious whoopings - but they aren't so bad. A few of the 'always' goals we see - but for the most part I'm having a terrible time with turnovers. My passing game is atrocious after these tuners.

    Definitely interesting to read this as I know you are talking about your own ability to pass but I have also seen more callouts again pass mechanics as well.

    Passing itself is the same so it must be the higher urgency to get rid of the puck creating less precision which is another great player separation.
  • KidShowtime1867
    1574 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    NHLDev wrote: »
    This tuner is definitely on par with the beta and includes much needed fixes.

    Those claiming that this isn't the tuner we just played are the same users who claimed that the 'beta tuner' wasn't 'actually the beta tuner'. Which is exactly how I said this would go down for some people: They'd get the new tuner, take a few spankings online and then come back to here to claim nothing changed or it changed for the worse.

    Full disclosure: Prior to these tuners, I was ranked 450 in OVP. I am now ranked 1,900.

    I have taken some serious whoopings - but they aren't so bad. A few of the 'always' goals we see - but for the most part I'm having a terrible time with turnovers. My passing game is atrocious after these tuners.

    Definitely interesting to read this as I know you are talking about your own ability to pass but I have also seen more callouts again pass mechanics as well.

    Passing itself is the same so it must be the higher urgency to get rid of the puck creating less precision which is another great player separation.

    Yea, I believe this is the case. The game is far 'tighter' in the sense that anyone close to you can cause any number of disruptions - so there's definitely an urgency in moving the play forward or moving the puck to close support.

    It adds a dynamic to the gameplay that resembles hockey so much.

    Couple of more gifs from play sessions with the new tuner:

    Not quite sure what Perreault is doing here. The A.I. seems to be having trouble staying with the play and wasting time skating away from the puck:

    EA23eDl.gif


    This one is subjective, but I use saucer pass to chip the puck to hopefully get around the defender, but there's a (what I consider to be) blatant interference call:

    yOiAHhf.gif

    Again, this one is subjective. Just curios to know what people's thoughts are surrounding interference plays like this.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    I have also seen more callouts again pass mechanics as well.

    Passing itself is the same so it must be the higher urgency to get rid of the puck creating less precision which is another great player separation.

    I also wanted to point out that when the tuner reverted to 1.00 last week, the settings for my pass assist were set back to default (100%). I always have mine set at 10%.

    I posted about this in the forums, but others said theirs didn't change for them so it's possible this was altered at another point (or tuner, or patch) and I failed to observe it.

    That said - is it possible for some people that the pass assist setting is being defaulted, which may explain why some users are complaining of radical changes to passing?
  • NHLDev
    1680 posts EA NHL Developer
    edited January 2019
    Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    I think with 'big' differences we're still talking about nuances, unless it's a case of either it works, or doesn't work at all - then it's kinda on/off situation. And that's where you end up getting opposing views. It's not really nice of you to say we're trolling you NHLDev, I honestly think we're all offering sincere opinions?

    Plus factor in lag, the way the game played for us yesterday, lag made it impossible to really see these smaller details. If lag makes you miss hits, passes, pokes, and sticklifts, how can you say anything definite about the tuners?

    I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect that we players can give you unbiased, objective and accurate reports on the gameplay tuners? We're not professional testers you know?

    Yep understood. I have to remember sometimes how things can be read in text and how I have to be more on the head when it should be said with a chuckle.

    When I said ‘felt like trolling’ rather than ‘you are trolling me’, that was the difference and it was just a way to express how that feedback has confused me.

    But you are right, I can’t expect everyone to give perfectly unbiased, objective reports on gameplay (that doesn’t exist from anyone) but I also need to be able to challenge the feedback and try to have people see things through different lenses so that we can get to the heart of something as well. It’s all part of the process.
  • I would say that the games are a lottery, at best. I have been playing the beta-tuner and now the one released today - and I have to admit that you have the heart on the right place EA. You are trying to listen to the Community, but I’m heartbroken to say that the game is more broken than ever with the tuner that was released today.

    I thought it couldn’t get any worse from the beta tuner, but I stand corrected. The spam sticklift is abused more than ever, the puck is bouncing all over the place, you can’t bump the players any more, puck pickups are just horrible, the goalies are worse than ever, 2-3 own goals per game is not unusual, the better player is really not rewarded atm... The list goes on.

    I didn’t think I would say this, but please make the game as it was before the beta tuner. Just let this game be as it was, and start to rebuild nhl 20 from scratch instead. This game is beyond rescue, at least before the beta tuner the better player won the games. Now it’s, in loss of better words, a lottery.

    I have seen alot of this in HUT. Eashl feels okay reasonably balanced. I can use different builds again. But HUT has been really bad with the stick lifts running through 4 defenders, bouncy wierdness. I seem to score a goal a game on myself. But truthfully at the end of the day, I knew this (set up) this was the lesser of the two evils. I've adapted to the full on attack style most employ. It's definitely gonna need a little time to fully evaluate, but I agree it's reverted to the wrong side.

    Anyway, R-E-L-A-X ! It's going to be okay. I promise
  • KidShowtime1867
    1574 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    drod1126 wrote: »
    I would say that the games are a lottery, at best. I have been playing the beta-tuner and now the one released today - and I have to admit that you have the heart on the right place EA. You are trying to listen to the Community, but I’m heartbroken to say that the game is more broken than ever with the tuner that was released today.

    I thought it couldn’t get any worse from the beta tuner, but I stand corrected. The spam sticklift is abused more than ever, the puck is bouncing all over the place, you can’t bump the players any more, puck pickups are just horrible, the goalies are worse than ever, 2-3 own goals per game is not unusual, the better player is really not rewarded atm... The list goes on.

    I didn’t think I would say this, but please make the game as it was before the beta tuner. Just let this game be as it was, and start to rebuild nhl 20 from scratch instead. This game is beyond rescue, at least before the beta tuner the better player won the games. Now it’s, in loss of better words, a lottery.

    I have seen alot of this in HUT. Eashl feels okay reasonably balanced. I can use different builds again. But HUT has been really bad with the stick lifts running through 4 defenders, bouncy wierdness. I seem to score a goal a game on myself. But truthfully at the end of the day, I knew this (set up) this was the lesser of the two evils. I've adapted to the full on attack style most employ. It's definitely gonna need a little time to fully evaluate, but I agree it's reverted to the wrong side.

    Anyway, R-E-L-A-X ! It's going to be okay. I promise

    I feel like most of the problem surrounding stick lift is the amount of frames your player is locked in to when 'reacting' to a stick lift. If those frames were lessened, plus the player had an ability to negate stick lift (say with an aptly timed press of 'protect puck'?) we might see less of it being abused.

    I'd like to see 'protect puck' become more of a contextual defence to all attempts to strip the puck away or body check. Obviously, it would have varying levels of success when considering attributes, scenario, etc - but it would be nice to have 'protect puck' do more for us than it is doing now.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    NHLDev wrote: »
    I am a VS/HUT only player. I am not a fan of the new tuner.

    I thought the beta rollback tuner was perfect and I was finally enjoying the game again.

    It's back to stick-curl wiggle-bubbling, and one man show hockey. It's still a little better than 1.03, but it's much closer to that than the experimental tuner.

    I had my fun for a week, but it's time for me to step away from this series. I just don't enjoy this style and we always seem to end up back here.

    GG all.
    It’s really interesting to hear that as the physics/collision tuning is exactly the same as the rollback tuner.

    If you liked the rollback tuner that much, I would give this a larger sample size of games before making that final assessment.

    Ill play a few more games yet today, but Im a pretty highly ranked player so every game I play is going to be against bubble-wiggle masters (And Im not too shabby at it myself :) )

    It feels too much like 1.03 again. I just shut off my console in disgust halfway through the last game (And I NEVER, EVER quit games). He curled his stick and bubble-wiggled through a crowd of 3 defenders, lost the puck and regained it about 4 separate times in the span of about 2 seconds (incidental contact), and then short-side sniped it after bubble-sliding through the crowd like a greased pig. The whole sequence was nauseating.

    And its felt like that for much of the 7 games Ive played since the new tuner. Eerie similar to 1.03. Its a little better than that was, but man.. you had the game absolutely perfect for the last week. At least in my opinion, which I concede doesn't count for much.

    Im over the bubble-wiggle gameplay style, and I just don't enjoy it.

    It’s funny for me to read this. It’s the exact same settings.

    If people aren’t happy when they get exactly what they vote for it shows we really can’t win and that mind state will always rule over reality.

    Just look at all comments we got on Friday about how the tuner was better and worse before people realized it didn’t actually get rolled out as planned.

    All I can say is if you liked the Beta rollback, especially due to the physics changes, you should be just as happy with this tuner. Obviously it’s your choice in the end but wanted to make sure you didn’t let any bias get into the way too early as we want everyone having a good time.

    Well, Im glad you got a good laugh. At least someone is having fun.

    You ask for feedback, and then laugh it off when you get it. Thats ok.. I mean, I don't care either way. Just seems counterproductive. I even said right up front that I understand that my opinion means nothing in the grand scheme of things. You can do with it what you want. In this cause, laugh at it I suppose.

    Something is still "off". I believe it is in the movement/animations/skating. It feels like swivel top hockey with strange bubbles/forcefields intertwined.

    I thought the last tuner (the experimental one) was the closest we've been to perfection yet. Whatever it is in this one, it just doesn't feel or play the same. That doesn't mean I dont appreciate the effort.

    I just felt like the experimental tuner was much better. That's *MY* personal feedback. I'll state once again that I understand that my opinion means nothing.

    Funny, no doubt! :D

    That’s the piece you are missing. There is literally not one line in the tuner I could change to make it closer to what you played over the past week in those areas. If there was, I could see eye to eye with you and say sure it’s a subjective choice but when it is literally the same, I am not sure what to do or say with that feedback other than what I have.

    I’m sorry I disagree the skating is not the same it’s dull! Boring! If got caught up I could instantly stop and turn around and hustle back! now I have to circle to turn around there’s no edge left to the skating! No sharp cuts, no snow flying off the skates! It’s not even close to the release. How can you say it’s the same? You know it’s not! You made the game!
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    This tuner is definitely on par with the beta and includes much needed fixes.

    Those claiming that this isn't the tuner we just played are the same users who claimed that the 'beta tuner' wasn't 'actually the beta tuner'. Which is exactly how I said this would go down for some people: They'd get the new tuner, take a few spankings online and then come back to here to claim nothing changed or it changed for the worse.

    Full disclosure: Prior to these tuners, I was ranked 450 in OVP. I am now ranked 1,900.

    I have taken some serious whoopings - but they aren't so bad. A few of the 'always' goals we see - but for the most part I'm having a terrible time with turnovers. My passing game is atrocious after these tuners.

    Definitely interesting to read this as I know you are talking about your own ability to pass but I have also seen more callouts again pass mechanics as well.

    Passing itself is the same so it must be the higher urgency to get rid of the puck creating less precision which is another great player separation.

    Yea, I believe this is the case. The game is far 'tighter' in the sense that anyone close to you can cause any number of disruptions - so there's definitely an urgency in moving the play forward or moving the puck to close support.

    It adds a dynamic to the gameplay that resembles hockey so much.

    Couple of more gifs from play sessions with the new tuner:

    Not quite sure what Perreault is doing here. The A.I. seems to be having trouble staying with the play and wasting time skating away from the puck:

    EA23eDl.gif


    This one is subjective, but I use saucer pass to chip the puck to hopefully get around the defender, but there's a (what I consider to be) blatant interference call:

    yOiAHhf.gif

    Again, this one is subjective. Just curios to know what people's thoughts are surrounding interference plays like this.

    On your second video I think it's fine. In the NHL a defender can interfere with a player after a dump and it's a non-call. While the NHL doesn't allow the hit itself, the ultimate impact on how "slowed down" the attacker is looks to be of a similar amount of time as to the NHL.

    In other words, I think we end at the correct result with an incorrect way of getting there. I think since the engine doesn't at present allow us to replicate what the NHL defenseman does in this situation, what we see in your video is good enough, and the best we'll get.

    Now if the hit was big, and the attacker fell down, that result would not simulate the ultimate result in the NHL. So the bump is ok, but I think a big hit would be a problem.
  • Sgt_Kelso
    1325 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    This tuner is definitely on par with the beta and includes much needed fixes.

    Those claiming that this isn't the tuner we just played are the same users who claimed that the 'beta tuner' wasn't 'actually the beta tuner'. Which is exactly how I said this would go down for some people: They'd get the new tuner, take a few spankings online and then come back to here to claim nothing changed or it changed for the worse.

    of course, you're conveniently forgetting all the patches here... which I think had a major effect on the feel of the original beta. So the beta tuner revert couldn't possibly copy the overall feel of the actual beta game. Which kinda made the beta revert a little bit pointless - there simply wasn't a way to go 100% back at this stage.

    The difficulty with listening to the fans is that everybody has an opinion on these things. It may or may not be based on reason and objective observations all the time, or some people just like different things. So you need to pick and choose who you listen, or choose a middle-ground of these opinions, or not listen anyone at all...

    We don't have the luxury of lag-free connections or professional experience in playtesting. This is something EA needs to sort them out themselves. I am not sure if they have done themselves a favour by resorting to gamechangers, not that they're supposed to replace playtesters as such, are they?

  • NHLDev wrote: »
    I will let you all play with it more.

    Other than GOW, I feel like you are all trolling me as some of this feedback seems so misaligned with the strategy we chose.

    But I have literally been in bed with whatever has hit me for everything but a couple hours since we signed off on this tuner last week until now with a crazy fever so I am not in a state to take the mind warp at the moment. Hoping to not need more than another day to get back and then can play again myself.

    I don't understand why some are saying it's way different than the beta because to me it's almost the exact same. You can still make crushing hits and incidental puck loss is still in the game.

    Great job on this tuner though, It's a lot of fun to play. Feel better.
  • First off, Im really appreciative of NHLDev's effort here. So many contradictory view points to shuffle through, and so few gifs.

    Beta rollback tuner, loved the looseness of the puck. Cycles and forechecks instead of fastbreak after fastbreak. I play with 2 very different groups of friends; one that racks up 20+ game win streaks, and one that has a couple guys playing on NHL94 controls because 2 sticks is too hard. Both groups loved the tuner rollback. Both groups found successes with forechecking / cycling. Saw more deflections, and the prettiest deflection goal I've seen, during the rollback.

    new 1.03b tuner: Only got a few games in with my weaker team, and I want to agree with some of the earlier comments about the curls avoiding hits being back for tiny players. Both myself (5'7" sniper) and some opponents were able to have their way in the corners. Small sample size, and weak competition - I'll have to believe the dev that nothing is different than the rollback....for now ;)


    Did the beta tuner rollback have anything in it that would have affected AI players tracking pucks that were dumped around the boards? They seemed to miscalculate their routes during the rollback, versus their perfect routes before.
    EASHL player
  • Socair
    2700 posts Game Changer
    First off, Im really appreciative of NHLDev's effort here. So many contradictory view points to shuffle through, and so few gifs.

    Beta rollback tuner, loved the looseness of the puck. Cycles and forechecks instead of fastbreak after fastbreak. I play with 2 very different groups of friends; one that racks up 20+ game win streaks, and one that has a couple guys playing on NHL94 controls because 2 sticks is too hard. Both groups loved the tuner rollback. Both groups found successes with forechecking / cycling. Saw more deflections, and the prettiest deflection goal I've seen, during the rollback.

    new 1.03b tuner: Only got a few games in with my weaker team, and I want to agree with some of the earlier comments about the curls avoiding hits being back for tiny players. Both myself (5'7" sniper) and some opponents were able to have their way in the corners. Small sample size, and weak competition - I'll have to believe the dev that nothing is different than the rollback....for now ;)


    Did the beta tuner rollback have anything in it that would have affected AI players tracking pucks that were dumped around the boards? They seemed to miscalculate their routes during the rollback, versus their perfect routes before.
    Yes, the AI is back to passive defensive actions (or in-actions). I believe this could be a factor given player switching would see a greater distance needed to reach the puck carrier in some situations. Thus giving the puck carriers more time to curl and dance in the corners.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    It’s funny for me to read this. It’s the exact same settings.

    If people aren’t happy when they get exactly what they vote for it shows we really can’t win and that mind state will always rule over reality.

    Just look at all comments we got on Friday about how the tuner was better and worse before people realized it didn’t actually get rolled out as planned.

    All I can say is if you liked the Beta rollback, especially due to the physics changes, you should be just as happy with this tuner. Obviously it’s your choice in the end but wanted to make sure you didn’t let any bias get into the way too early as we want everyone having a good time.


    I’m sorry I disagree the skating is not the same it’s dull! Boring! If got caught up I could instantly stop and turn around and hustle back! now I have to circle to turn around there’s no edge left to the skating! No sharp cuts, no snow flying off the skates! It’s not even close to the release. How can you say it’s the same? You know it’s not! You made the game!

    You can't "disagree." It's not something that's up for debate. The new tuner didn't change the skating. That's a fact. If you feel differently, it's either because of lag, or because you're imagining things.


  • Sgt_Kelso wrote: »
    So the beta tuner revert couldn't possibly copy the overall feel of the actual beta game. Which kinda made the beta revert a little bit pointless - there simply wasn't a way to go 100% back at this stage.

    The beta revert was not "pointless." Even if they couldn't go back 100%, it absolutely made sense to go back, because the rollback dramatically improved hitting, and made it significantly harder to abuse LT and figure skate. Reverting to the beta tuner, and then building off that, rather than going back to 1.03 (which was an awful tuner), were the best decisions EA has made this year.
  • NHLDev wrote: »
    This tuner is definitely on par with the beta and includes much needed fixes.

    Those claiming that this isn't the tuner we just played are the same users who claimed that the 'beta tuner' wasn't 'actually the beta tuner'. Which is exactly how I said this would go down for some people: They'd get the new tuner, take a few spankings online and then come back to here to claim nothing changed or it changed for the worse.

    Full disclosure: Prior to these tuners, I was ranked 450 in OVP. I am now ranked 1,900.

    I have taken some serious whoopings - but they aren't so bad. A few of the 'always' goals we see - but for the most part I'm having a terrible time with turnovers. My passing game is atrocious after these tuners.

    Definitely interesting to read this as I know you are talking about your own ability to pass but I have also seen more callouts again pass mechanics as well.

    Passing itself is the same so it must be the higher urgency to get rid of the puck creating less precision which is another great player separation.

    Yea, I believe this is the case. The game is far 'tighter' in the sense that anyone close to you can cause any number of disruptions - so there's definitely an urgency in moving the play forward or moving the puck to close support.

    It adds a dynamic to the gameplay that resembles hockey so much.

    Couple of more gifs from play sessions with the new tuner:

    Not quite sure what Perreault is doing here. The A.I. seems to be having trouble staying with the play and wasting time skating away from the puck:

    EA23eDl.gif


    This one is subjective, but I use saucer pass to chip the puck to hopefully get around the defender, but there's a (what I consider to be) blatant interference call:

    yOiAHhf.gif

    Again, this one is subjective. Just curios to know what people's thoughts are surrounding interference plays like this.

    Haven’t read a rule book in a while, but how it was when I played was, you have 2 seconds to finish the hit.

    Most pretty much every coach encouraged finishing the hit.
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
  • Haven’t read a rule book in a while, but how it was when I played was, you have 2 seconds to finish the hit.

    Most pretty much every coach encouraged finishing the hit.

    "Finishing the hit" is just code for "illegally take the player out of the play." But regardless, that's not what's at issue in that clip. The offensive player had sent the puck into the zone long before the defensive player even approached him. He doesn't have possession of the puck, and the hit impedes his progress toward the puck. Clear interference.

  • MooseHunter10
    402 posts Member
    edited January 2019
    Bmh245 wrote: »
    Haven’t read a rule book in a while, but how it was when I played was, you have 2 seconds to finish the hit.

    Most pretty much every coach encouraged finishing the hit.

    "Finishing the hit" is just code for "illegally take the player out of the play." But regardless, that's not what's at issue in that clip. The offensive player had sent the puck into the zone long before the defensive player even approached him. He doesn't have possession of the puck, and the hit impedes his progress toward the puck. Clear interference.

    You're not wrong, but even NHL refs are inconsistent on this. We can also do the same thing with just LS and a LS hit is never called.

    The video shows a tool thats missing from this game tho, and thats chipping a controlled puck to space. Does that soft sauce to self work for you often?

    Been a while since I've played FIFA, but they have/had a way to push the ball 6-10 feet in any direction and run onto it. Would be useful both for the case in the video, and also for defenders intercepting the puck in front of their net while standing still just to get the puck out of the slot.

    EASHL player
  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    "Finishing the hit" is just code for "illegally take the player out of the play." But regardless, that's not what's at issue in that clip. The offensive player had sent the puck into the zone long before the defensive player even approached him. He doesn't have possession of the puck, and the hit impedes his progress toward the puck. Clear interference.

    You're not wrong, but even NHL refs are inconsistent on this. We can also do the same thing with just LS and a LS hit is never called.

    The video shows a tool thats missing from this game tho, and thats chipping a controlled puck to space. Does that soft sauce to self work for you often?

    Been a while since I've played FIFA, but they have/had a way to push the ball 6-10 feet in any direction and run onto it. Would be useful both for the case in the video, and also for defenders intercepting the puck in front of their net while standing still just to get the puck out of the slot.

    Saucing it slightly ahead works OK, but you really have to feather RB. And I find that a good chunk of the time, what happens in that clip happens - the defender takes you out, and there's no call (though the refs will occasionally call interference in that scenario).

  • Bmh245 wrote: »
    Haven’t read a rule book in a while, but how it was when I played was, you have 2 seconds to finish the hit.

    Most pretty much every coach encouraged finishing the hit.

    "Finishing the hit" is just code for "illegally take the player out of the play." But regardless, that's not what's at issue in that clip. The offensive player had sent the puck into the zone long before the defensive player even approached him. He doesn't have possession of the puck, and the hit impedes his progress toward the puck. Clear interference.

    For what it’s worth, those words came from nhl coaches, d1 college coaches, d1 prep school coaches, and AA/AAA coaches.
    Not doing so said you might lack the hustle to be there. Now there was some gray in a situation where if you straight gooned the dude a ref could make the call..but in that situation he just followed through and continued the forecheck.

    If that call were made I might ask the ref to bend over and consider officiating with his good eye. 😉
    All Comments pertain to 6v6 drop in unless otherwise stated..
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